Huff Po article: Kerry supporting a 10 year delay of Public Option? Plus attack diary on kos

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/25/kerry-pushes-for-public-o_n_220822.html



Attack diary, mixing the Palin joke with this:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/25/746760/-John-Kerry,-Shame-On-You!-Betraying-Families-wTrigger-Option.

My view is that Kerry WANTS the public option, but that there aren't the votes on the committee at this time. That really sucks. I think he is trying to save it here in some recognizable form. How disspiriting.

unless there are not enough votes, not just in committee, but in the Senate as a whole. the problem is that this story is from unidentified Democratic aides. It may not be the full story. If you look at Dean's list, there are 7 of I think 23 Senators on the Finance committee wanting a public option. It may be that in committee, as far as their plan goes, the public option will not be included. Kerry's decision might then be does he support it or not? And if he agrees to vote for it in committee, it makes sense that he try to to include it in some form as you say.

Kerry is not Kuchininh, who will vote against everything that is not completely what he wants - though DKOS would prefer a Kuchinch.

Just spoke w/Kerry's office. (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by: beachmom
He said (paraphrased), "this quote was from a closed-door meeting; there was no press present. Senator Kerry is unequivocally for the public option, and he is not in favor of a 'trigger.' We're still trying to find out where this report came from."

I said, "it doesn't sound like the Senator's previous positions."

He said, "no, it doesn't. As far as I know, Senator Kerry has not changed his position on this."

Thoughts? Maybe Kerry was being sarcastic?

Freedom isn't "on the march." Freedom dances.

by WarrenS on Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 11:19:29 AM PDT

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Or it was off the record, which means they can deny.

Just too many questions.

same of bunch of dumbasses attacking him for no other reason than they want to. claiming he isn't a liberal and other shit.

fucking idiots.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8496489

I am becoming increasingly suspicious that someone deliberately wanted to smear John Kerry by delivering this misleading story to the Huff Post.

The Palin think was Kerry's fault - but relatively innocent and the RW looks silly attacking Kerry for this. It accuses her of nothing and says nothing of her character, career, family - nothing.

If Kerry saying this is wrong, there is a whole line of Republicans that need to line up and aplogize to john Kerry. If she is so deserving of no one saying she should go away, he deserves at least equal respect.

I am so tired of the people who accuse Sen. Kerry of being wooden and then jump down his throat when he says an innocent joke. No joke withstands being ripped out of context, so it was with this one. But I certainly hope the good Senator continues to be human and tell a joke now and then that harms no one.

This is ridiculous. The right wing idiots are desperate to take the spotlight off of recent adulterers in their midst so they have trotted out the PC police to ride herd on an innocent joke. They can all bite me.

Honestly, give me a break. I was all set to cut the right wingers a small break and look away from the human car wrecks that are their public figures of late. Then they go and pull this crap. Honestly, telling a joke that would be too mild to get on Letterman or Conan O'Brien for Gawd's sake is no friggin sin.

This vividly shows just how desperate the RW is to get the spotlight off their screwups. Again, they can all bite my arse. I refuse to go into a hyperventilating defense positions because of this. RW people: please get a friggin life.

Don't hold it in -- how do you REALLY feel about this? :-)

They really are pathetic and the only people who buy any of it are people who desperately need to rather than admit that their own leaders are hypocrites without ethics (leaders who can't tell a harmless joke, btw, without being cruel.)

Al I meant here was that where the healthcare one is clearly sabatoge, the Palin one is the same idiotic thing that happens all the time - and Kerry's joke was fine. The BH is part of the problem as they conflated it with Letterman's - which is idiotic.

I hink it is because Kerry is less stiff than almost all the other Senators is why he sometimes can be caught when the comment is taken out of context. He is sometimes even humorous at Senate hearings - and it's a good thing, because he spends a lot of his life in them. But, I have never heard a mean spirited joke out of him in all the years of listening.

I decided not to answer the right wing sites. They will not change their opinion and anyone reading there and believing all the lies they spew on Kerry, can't be convinced.

I was reacting not to you, but to the idiots who promulgate false outrage.

My apologies. These sentiments were attached to your post, but not in any way directed at you or anything you wrote.

I was addressing the universe at large.

The RW is like an old-fashioned steam engine. It has to be stoked in order to move. It doesn't matter what idiotic drivel gets fed into the boilers, as long as it makes movement possible. It is also, if you can believe this, not personal against Sen. Kerry. The machine is the machine, it requires fuel. Given that the Repub Party and it's nutty RW is out of ideas, out of power and out of their minds, they have to use whatever fuel they find, no matter how flimsy or idiotic.

but realized my first line (that it was Kerry's fault) was open to misinterpretation.

I see nothing with wrong with this mild crack said to a group of MA Democrats in what seemed to have been an informal event. I seriously doubt it upset or offended a single person there. I like that he can laugh and have fun - even as he works. I seriously can't imagine him not being that way.

who needs to get a life. There are some miserable people on the left too. We've had enough misplaced outrage over jokes to last several decades. At one point it seemed as if some people were going to call for Obama's impeachment over a joke.

They have lost all perspective. Jokes are funny. Laughter is good. Excessive outrage causes stress. Life is too short.

i see the agenda of those with the fake outrage. there responses have nothing to do with the issue and shows lack of attention to what is happening on this issue.

stupid fuckers. same old jackasses.

of the difference between:

Health care and health insurance
Single payer health insurance and free medical care and they don't get that the insurance is NOT free.
single payer and government option insurance - again conflated with free care


They also don't get that unless the committee had 11 votes without Kerry and he voted against it - he can't stop anything - and he can't win a vote if there are just 6 of them. (my conjecture is that a public option was shot down, then Snowe made a reasonable trigger proposal(which I disagree with) with a trigger in a few years - and it was shot down as not giving enough time - then Kerry threw out 10 years - just to show the committee was simply not going to take it.)

stupid ass

UPDATE: Kerry spokeswoman Jodi Seth responds with a statement: "Let's be clear, if Sen. Kerry had his way, there'd be no debate: we'd have universal coverage tomorrow with a strong public plan at its core. Sen. Kerry strongly supports a robust public option and has been pushing for it since day one of this debate. When he ran for president, he campaigned on a public option and everywhere he went he reminded the country that Congress shouldn't deny them the public health care that Members of Congress give themselves. The past five years have only strengthened that conviction. Any suggestion that he prefers proposals that would delay or trigger the implementation of a public plan is outright false, end of story. But it's no secret that the Finance Committee is looking at a whole range of progressive options with an eye on what can make its way to the president's desk to become law, and obviously if it's the only way to get universal health coverage then people will consider a trigger that ultimately guarantees a strong public option."

The first paragraph of the story has been changed to make clear that Kerry suggested a trigger only if it becomes impossible to get the votes for a public option without one.



I am completely fed up with liberals who don't get how the Senate works. I also think that Kerry is THE proponent for the public option on the committee, but is sadly outnumbered by the majority which opposes the public option.

I especially agree with and applaud your last paragraph.

I think that this is a time for rumors because there is nothing yet set in stone.

It is indeed a shame when one of the strongest advocates for public health care is falsely slammed based on rumors and half-heard conversations.

(Actually the anger, I heard, was expressed about the delaying tactics in the whole debate going on in the Senate. The anger was about the song and dance that was going on to do anything but face the public option. I know this half-baked "reporting" is not true.)

Kerry's spokesman's comment is really complete and strong.

in tones a sailor would no doubt recognize, were imparted to me in confidence. Those tones were not, ah, favorable to those who want delays, co-opts, or getting rid of the public option.

I can imagine - this is hurting people and those Democrats are clearly NOT representing the people who voted for them - or even their whole state. I can imagine that this is frustrating to Kerry, who worked so hard to get so many Democrats elected so we could get things done.

A month or so ago, the Nation wrote of Kerry reading some letters sent via Dean's action in favor of the public option into the committee's records.

The thing that is suspicious is that any aide would know who has been saying what for a long time. This is just too ingenuous. Any aide would know something about how things are done and would not see this as a change, but understand it for what it is.

Looking at the list, I have my suspicions on who could gain. Their is one unusually ambitious Senator, who is in the party leadership and who might see Kerry as a rival for influence in the Senate - and I still suspect him for an earlier covert attack.

hail from the Northeast? If it's the one I think, I always suspect that senator, on principle!

and I have absolutely no proof - and it may even be just some aides.

But I think it's plausible. It may be more a question of Congressional culture rather than anything formally orchestrated though.

Right? Do we know where each of them stand on Public Option?

MAX BAUCUS, MT
JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, WV
KENT CONRAD, ND
JEFF BINGAMAN, NM
JOHN F. KERRY, MA
BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, AR
RON WYDEN, OR
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, NY
DEBBIE STABENOW, MI
MARIA CANTWELL, WA
BILL NELSON, FL
ROBERT MENENDEZ, NJ
THOMAS CARPER, DE

For Public Option:
Rockefeller
Bingaman
Kerry
Schumer
Stabenow
Menendez

NYCEVE, one of the whiny diarists who is a total turn off has piled on:

campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/john-kerry-you-said-what/

Add http:// at the beginning.

She's the one who wants everyone to "GET MAD" about health care, and also totally went after JK during the "don't taze me bro" fiasco. I stay away from her Kos diaries. Sorry, but she declares war on the people who most agree with her. It is downright bizarre. Clearly, Schumer or someone else in that meeting wants to turn liberal activists against Kerry. And frankly, I don't think Team Kerry has done a good enough job in showing how he is the #1 proponent of the public option on the Finance Committee. So everyone is left guessing, and quick to turn on him, since in the past he has stayed largely silent on health care reform (Morning Joe was a nice exception, but not about the public option). It was this incident that has finally shown once and for all that it is HE who is on the side of light and goodness, and the majority of the Democrats on that Committee who are NOT (either they mildly support the public option for political reasons or they are downright opposed to it).

It looks to take out the backsliders first. Any movement that feels it has to police it's own ranks to rigorously guard against dissenters is doomed to failure. It is true in other countries, as we are seeing in Iran, and it is true here.

We don't say outrageous things and go after our own because there comes a point where you can't walk it back, you can't take back the words said and you can't repair the ruptures. They are not amenable to being healed. Advocates and friends have been alienated beyond the point of repair.

Humility in public life is not optional. It is a requirement if you want to get something done. People who possess the ability to put their own egos aside in order to achieve honorable compromises are the ones who truly get to make progress.

I have quoted Dr. King and his stirring http://www.mlkonline.net/jail.html">Letter from a Birmingham Jail in which the good Doctor assailed moderates. I agree with him. I also know that Dr. King worked to bring those moderates forward with his positive actions and his unrelenting focus on the goal. He didn't do things he couldn't walk back later. Not because he was unprincipled but because his fight was about more than himself and more than his own righteousness. He got things done. I hope the people in the vanguards of the movements on health care reform, climate change and so forth keep that in mind.

Never say in print what you wouldn't say to someone in person. Or to that person's kids or mother. Ever. It demeans you and weakens your cause.

Happenstance dictates that there is an article on the http://happydays.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/when-the-heart-pays-the-price-of-anger/">NYTimes website today about anger and why we should not give in to it:



I wish some of the self-proclaimed leaders of reform movements would read that. It's true what your Grandmother told you, you really do catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

using eloquent words, and by God, he got those moderates on board (my parents liked him). The health care reform liberal activists I have read (as opposed to more measured advocates like Robert Reich, Ezra Klein, etc.) are basically jerks. People you would never want to hang with, nor being in alliance with (they will turn on you for a stray word), and they advocate for single payer which will never happen (I know my country -- the people are not for it, and there is no support for it in the Senate except Sanders). Now proponents of single payer can lament this fact, but when they continue to knock Democrats for not supporting what is considered a fairly radical reform, they are not working for progress. The equivalent on the Right is Fairtax.org. I see bumper stickers for this all the time here in Georgia (Neil Boortz is from here), and I guarantee you fair tax, just like single payer, will never, ever, ever pass the Congress.

Of note, by the way, NycEve, and other bloggers one loves to hate like Armando, met with Bill Clinton a week or so ago. Um, Bill Clinton doesn't have much influence, and is not in the Congress. It seems to me that a lot of this is about being popular with the liberal activists, not actually getting anything done. And it really is a win/win. The liberal activists like to be mad and bash good Democrats, then get in with cool Democrats like Bill Clinton who is still mad at Democrats in Congress who ultimately turned against his wife. In return, Bill Clinton is more popular in the liberal blogosphere with the crowd Al Giordano loves to hate (I do disagree with him on Glenn Greenwald, who would never, ever hang with Bill Clinton). Now, of course, those bloggers would say, "oh, no, I am definitely for health care reform", but they strike me as absolutists who would rather have NO reform than have to settle for a compromise (I would back the trigger if it was, say, 2 years but not much longer. I think Kerry was probably almost bidding, saying 1, 2, 5, 10???? With no response, unfortunately). I view people like Robert Reich or even Paul Krugman as being more helpful than these people whose first instinct is always to bash Democrats.

One more thing to note (would love your view on it) is my opposition to "spamming" Congress. This is some organized attempt to just clog up phone lines but not really with a true grassroots. I support the public option. However, I will not be contacting my rep or Senators. Why? Because they will vote no, and nothing will change their minds. I think contacting the WH is a good idea, to show support for the public option. I have also heard there is a Finance Committee number, also maybe worthwhile. But contacting Senators from other states is a waste of time, and amounts to spamming. Kerry got spammed big time yesterday for a bogus report (people commented that all lines were tied). I would prefer that Mass. constituents get the chance to call in and tell their personal stories about health care woes. Instead liberal whiny activists from California are calling his poor staffers calling him all kinds of names (no doubt) based on this Huff Po report. These are the same people who call every week, and I just don't see the point.

and even after people have corrected the OP multiple times the thread has a bunch of assholes jumping in and ignoring any correction to show their phony outrage when they are just looking to bash Kerry.

just look at how none of these asses show up in the threads where people posted the correction.

confirms i really hate some people on here. of course that happens on many issues everyday so not a surprise.

dumbasses think they are going to get a serious challenge to Obama in 2012. same fucking idiots defending that idiot Palin.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8502194

BLM has a theory, which I tend to believe:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8502194&mesg_id=8502287

Who needs Republicans when one has Democrats like these?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3954191

He's the "hero", and John Kerry is the guy who wanted to cave with a 10 year trigger.

Sigh.