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Kerry to hold a hearing called "Libya and the War Powers Act" on Tuesday

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-11 11:44 AM
Original message
Kerry to hold a hearing called "Libya and the War Powers Act" on Tuesday
Edited on Sat Jun-25-11 11:48 AM by karynnj
It will be interesting to hear what he and others say in the SFRC, where things can often be more thoughtful. It might be interesting to compare to the earlier hearing.

http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=3c07358f-5056-a032-5263-cbae117ccfb9

One thing I missed was that Clinton was at a hearing on Afghanistan and Pakistan on Thursday. It seems odd that there seemed to be nothing said about it - here is the link - http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=fc954f47-5056-a032-527c-2d086e505d32
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I just listened to the opening statements of this important hearing
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 03:04 PM by karynnj
I will start by saying that Senator Lugar's opening statement is incredibly good.

Lugar is clearly furious with the Obama administration. Starting ou, he says that Obama's refusal to request approval was in contradiction of his own 2008 statements on taking a country to war.

He also makes the point, that even if the approval is not needed, it would not be wise to not seek authority if there was not some good reason precluding it. He said "success higher if there is unity between the branches and there is debate." Lugar pointed out that he asked Obama to request authority if he were going to war 12 days before first hostilities and the Arab states resolution was a week before - there was time. He then said that "if the outcome of the vote is in doubt, it all the more reason to seek a debate"

He then read a quote from a James Madison letter to Thomas Jefferson, that explained that because the executive branch is most involved in going to war, it should be the legislative branch that approves it. He said the it "was a fundamental failure of leadership that placed expediency over constitutional responsibility". He spoke of Obama's "dubious" reasons as setting a precedent giving the President more power to unilaterally take the country to war. "Approval of even more power to make war in the hands of the President is not in our country's interest.

He then rebutted most of Obama's reasons. One interesting point - He said that Obama was denying the centrality of the US help still happening including most intelligence gathering. He made the point that we would think people doing for Al Quaeda what we are doing in support of NATO were "engaged in hostilities.

He then went on to complain that beyond asking for authorization, he was unhappy with their level of consultation. He said, that unlike Clinton in Bosnia, the Obama administration has not been forthcoming. He spoke of having difficulty getting answers, witnesses being denied, and meetings scheduled to brief them being canceled and when they happen they often refuse to answer as fully as they should. This is a bad precedent.

(The meeting started with Kerry's opening statement, but not knowing if I would get pulled away, I wanted to write up Lugar's - and it breaks my heart to say that I am nearly 100% in agreement with Lugar on this. This is NOT the issue to go to war or not, but Obama acting as an imperial President. There have been mild under tones several times in the past about the administartion not providing witnesses, but here he says what needs to be said. Even if that action puts Kerry in a very uncomfortable position, Kerry should be pushing back more than he is. )



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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Kerry's opening statement
Kerry opened by saying that War Powers Act has been debated since it was passed in 1973, but it has not been amended. He gave the Ford administration's definition of hostilities that all administrations have built on. It spoke of exchanging hostile fire. "Currently no American is being shot at and they will not put them there."
He then said the WPA was written before there were drones and that this might require amendments Kerry said that he could see why there are reasonable differences of opinion on this.

He then shifted to "looking at the bigger picture". He said that passing a Senate resolution in support of limited would send a message that the President and Congress are speaking with one voice to Ghadaffi and to the allies. "we are always strongest when we speak with one voice on foreign policy - so he hopes they can write a bipartisan resolution. He spoke of having a second meeting this afternoon to work on some Lugar amendments.

Kerry also introduced the former Libyan Ambassador who is now on the rebel side. He then spoke of how we have wanted NATO to step up. (AT some point, he spoke of how he heard this weekend in Cairo of how it is certain that this effort averted a massacre.

Kerry spoke of the witnesses - Koh, the State department lawyer. (From other sources he sided with not needing authority.) Kerry then said the Justice Department and Pentagon Lawyer (both against it - from other sources) were asked, but not made available. A second panel had:

Mr. Louis Fisher
Scholar in Residence
The Constitution Project
Silver Spring, MD
Download Testimony
Mr. Peter Spiro
Charles R. Weiner Professor of Law
Temple University, Beasley School of Law
Philadelphia, PA
Download Testimony

Related Press

There are links on the site to the testimony of all three witnesses and to information on Lugar's proposed 5 amendments.

Note - on this and the Lugar post the "quotes" are approximate - I'm incompetent at transcribing.


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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Lugar's press release is very interesting

Senator Richard G. Lugar, the Republican Leader of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, announced today that he will offer five amendments restricting presidential powers when the committee considers next week S.J. Res. 20, which would belatedly authorize President Obama using U.S. forces in the Libyan civil war.

Since the beginning of the Libyan war three months ago, Lugar has demanded that President Obama obtain congressional approval as prescribed in the U.S. Constitution, and detailed in the 1973 War Powers Act. Three weeks ago, Lugar’s criticisms halted White House efforts to obtain congressional authority through a non-binding sense of the Senate resolution.

The House of Representatives has scheduled debate tomorrow on competing joint war resolutions, which would be binding. On Tuesday morning, June 28, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee will hear testimony from State Department legal advisors, who have ruled that American participation in the Libyan war does not meet the definition of “hostilities” under the War Powers Act.

The committee is then scheduled to “mark up” S.J. Res 20, which gives President Obama authority to proceed with the war. Lugar sent a “dear colleague” letter to Senators arguing that S.J. Res. 20 “would provide expansive authorities permitting the continuation and significant escalation of U.S. military involvement in Libya’s civil war.”

Though the resolution’s title indicates that it authorizes the ‘limited’ use of U.S. armed forces in Libya,” Lugar wrote, “in fact, the resolution contains few, if any, meaningful limits. In particular:

* “The resolution would authorize the President to re-escalate U.S. military involvement in Libya to, and potentially beyond, the lead role it played at the beginning of the operation, when the United States carried out intensive air strikes on a daily basis. The resolution would only limit the President to actions ‘in support of United States national security policy interests’ and ‘to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973.’

* “The resolution contains no legally binding prohibition on the introduction of ground troops to Libya. It addresses this issue only through non-binding language indicating that Congress ‘does not support’ deployment of ground troops.

* “The resolution does not counteract the President’s assertion that current U.S. operations do not amount to ‘hostilities’ and therefore do not require Congressional authorization under the War Powers Resolution. Allowing this assertion to stand unchallenged would increase the risk that President Obama or future Presidents will conduct similar military interventions in the future without seeking or receiving Congressional authorization.

* “The resolution also lacks meaningful provisions for Congressional oversight of the operations, their costs, and their potential impact on other U.S. national security objectives.”

Lugar wrote that because S.J. Res. 20 “would authorize such expansive and prolonged military operations in Libya,” he will propose five amendments “that would narrow the resolution’s scope and strengthen Congress’s ability to oversee the operations.” Those amendments, Lugar detailed, would restrict presidential powers through:

* “A legally binding prohibition on the deployment of ground forces to Libya;

* “A narrowing of authorized role of U.S. military forces, restricted to intelligence sharing, refueling, search and rescue assistance, and planning support for NATO operations;

* “Required periodic reporting on the costs the United States is incurring to carry out the operations, and on their impact on the capacity of the United States and its NATO allies to carry out other operations including against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and elsewhere;
* “Specification that the War Powers Resolution applies to U.S. military operations in Libya, and that continuation of those operations requires Congressional authorization; and
* “Expression of the Sense of the Congress that post-war reconstruction costs should be borne primarily by the Libyan people and Arab League nations who requested the military intervention.”



http://foreign.senate.gov/press/ranking/release/?id=7074c298-20ee-43e2-81dc-39c154f6fe76


One observation, S.J. Res 20 contains compromises between McCain on one side and Kerry and Durbin etc on the other. It seems what Lugar does it moves it further from McCain - and from all they have said, much closer to where Kerry, Durbin and others are. It will be interesting if Lugar's changes could win a sufficient number of House Democrats and Republicans to pass this. It would be nice that it to some degree reasserts Congress's role.


(I will listen to the experts tomorrow.)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The second hearing from this afternoon is an open meeting too
http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=3c1b866a-5056-a032-526c-dd6dbe1dd4d7


(No time to listen at this time, but it looks like they are doing a lot of nice work. But will later.)
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Luftmensch067 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. They're replaying the first hearing right now
Corker was grandstanding and being deeply rude to Koh, who I thought was an awesome witness, and I was gritting my teeth (Corker is an ass and it's driving me nuts that these Republicans are shocked, SHOCKED, that a president might drag the country into an inadvisable war when they supported GWB for 8 years) and then JK just CALLED HIM OUT as a liar and talked about Obama having sent a letter to the Senate who refused to act. I cheered. God bless our truth-telling senator!!!!
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