New pope intervened against Kerry in US 2004 election campaign

Did you guys see this? Earlier, I was just disappointed. Now I am angry.

New pope intervened against Kerry in US 2004 election campaign

Tue Apr 19, 6:20 PM ET Politics - AFP

WASHINGTON (AFP) - German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican theologian who was elected Pope Benedict XVI, intervened in the 2004 US election campaign ordering bishops to deny communion to abortion rights supporters including presidential candidate John Kerry.

In a June 2004 letter to US bishops enunciating principles of worthiness for communion recipients, Ratzinger specified that strong and open supporters of abortion should be denied the Catholic sacrament, for being guilty of a "grave sin."

He specifically mentioned "the case of a Catholic politician consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws," a reference widely understood to mean Democratic candidate Kerry, a Catholic who has defended abortion rights.

The letter said a priest confronted with such a person seeking communion "must refuse to distribute it."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&e=3&u=/afp/20050419/pl_afp/vaticanpopeus

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1407120#1407134

I really dont wanna talk religion though, sorry.

There are going to be some American Catholics not happy if he does, methinks.

Just as there were before. This is disturbing, but the Church is not a democracy.

You know what would have been neat if my grandma's priest became pope lol, hes a graet guy, he said the total opposite of the new pope in regards to things like this, he told the congregation NOT to be single issue voters.

-- who married them -- could be in charge.

There are many priests and brothers in the Church who are like him. It's a sad thing that good works don't make headlines.

I live in France, but I was born in Germany and I'm really disappointed that they chose this extreme guy. Well, I'm not Catholic but I remember that even 20 years ago there were already polemics going on in Germany and many people in the Catholic Church there weren't happy about Ratzinger. There is a rather liberal cardinal in my region, Cardinal Lehmann, the bishop of Mainz, who often was in conflict with Ratzinger over his radical views. I guess people in Bavaria will be happy about the new pope, but people in other regions of Germany have mixed feelings about him.

Of everything I've read, the fact that he isn't supported in his own country is pretty alarming.

I really dont like what I hear about him so far guys but I am gonna defend him against the nazi accusations, its not because I am Catholic but I understand history from that era well, he was 12 when Germany invaded Poland, and had recently turned 18 when the war ended. So basically he was only older than me during the war for 3 months.

I think it is foolish to focus on that.

really doesn't mean anything.

It is what he has done as a Cardinal that show how strict and unwilling he will be to come into the 21st Century that worries me.

I haven't gone into those (Nazi)threads because I don't think that is really an issue (at least not to me).

WP article had this
"Several Jewish leaders welcomed the election of Ratzinger, who has revealed in a memoir that he served against his will in Adolph Hitler's Nazi youth movement and later was drafted into a Nazi antiaircraft unit that protected a BMW plant.

"In Judaism, accepting repentance is a high value," said David L. Bernstein, Washington area director of the American Jewish Committee. "And this pope has been in a historic process of reconciliation, and we must accept his ultimate intention to become a friend of the Jewish people."

I am not really liking him at all. I wish they had picked someone like Hummes.

--right.

This "He's a Nazi" bullshit is baseless. I am appalled at his far right positions on women, gays and lesbians, and especially on religious pluralism.

But I'm offended in his behalf as just a human being who feels this guy couldn't have been a Nazi. I'm on five or six threads out in GD trying to defend this guy when he was 14 (when he was in the Hitler Youth by compulsory law -- he didn't have a choice) and when he was 17-18 (when he was in the Wehrmacht, the German army, which was also compulsory.)

He even deserted the army rather than be a part of a Nazi force.

The conservatism really hurts me, but it hurts me in another way for people to dig up the 14-year old he was back then and crucify him for that. Plainly unjust.

:D

(Excellent user name, by the way ... from "Tiny Dancer"?)

What's it like there in Iowa these days? Is there any visible sign of 2008 support for Kerry, or Edwards, or Clinton, or Feingold, etc.?

at 42% - lowest here of his presidency (argghh! - makes me want to strangle someone).

We should hopefully pick up a House seat next year when Jim Nussle runs for Governor (his district voted for Gore and Kerry - 55%-45%).

I haven't seen much 2008 action yet but I can't wait.:hi:

Yes!

You are doing GREAT work in Iowa, Pirate Smile. Don't stop for anything!

Hell man, he turned 18 the month the war ended. He was just a kid. I saw some loon say oh he could have fought back because the poster said they protested Nam and helped McGovern's campaign. 1960's USA and 1940's Germany were different, you could dissident here and there well if you did, you'd be dead. Yeah, I know, I hate his social views too btw, I dont like him but I will defend him on this.

-- and younger resisting the Hitler Youth and they were dumped into the trains to Dachau for their bravery.

And I really can't blame any soldier in the army of the Third Reich for deserting. That's an impossible moral situation.

Well. The hullabaloo will die down in a few days and we can get back to the collapse of the New York Yankees & Steinbrenner's hissyfit, and the noble effort to defeat the John Bolton nomination.

Ratzinger is a huge disappointment to me but he wasnt a nazi.

My dad was 14 when he joint the Hitler Youth, and they were forced to join. Well, actually he liked it in some way. But he was born in 1929 and hadn't known anything but Hitler. His parents who were opposed to the Nazis were much to afraid to speak out. This was a time you could easily be denounced by a neighbor or family member and end up in a concentration camp just for saying that you didn't like Hitler. It was terrible! Everybody who has seen or read "Fear and Misery of the Third Reich" by Berthold Brecht knows what I'm talking about.

When he was not even 16, my dad was sent to war. He was horribly afraid and glad when the group of boys from his village he was with ran almost immediately into Americans (and not Russians who had the reputation for being brutal). The boys surrendered without fighting and became POWs. The US soldiers were nice to them, and I guess they felt sorry for these hungry, freezing kids. My dad then stayed in a prison camp until the war was over, and when he was released he had to sign a paper for the US Army, that he would never take up a weapon again. And he kept his promise. When the new German army was formed later and he was asked to join, he didn't. His war experience at this young age was traumatizing enough, and he defended peace for the rest of his life.

I still don't like Ratzinger and you can blame him for his conservatism in the Church, but going after him because of his Nazi experience in his youth doesn't seem right to me.

Statement from Senator John Kerry on Pope Benedict XVI

Washington, D.C. - Senator John Kerry issued the following statement on the Vatican’s announcement of Pope Benedict XVI:

“The election of a new pope is a great moment of hope, renewal and possibility for the Catholic church. Like all Catholics, Teresa and I pray for the Holy Father, extend our hopes for the Church, and hope that Pope Benedict XVI’s pontificate will touch the world in the same way Pope John Paul II did, reaching out to all people everywhere to find common ground, and guiding the faithful in a time of challenge and change across the globe.”


Perfect statement, short and pushes for a common ground.

Being Catholic and going to Catholic school for 12 years, also having an Aunt that was a nun (deceased now), naming this man as Pope truly does not make me want to cling to the church. I have not been a practicing Catholic for many years, I think it came from what I saw behind the scenes, I had some mighty nasty nuns who taught me, I knew why they became nuns because nobody else would want anything to do with them. Now I have to say my Aunt was not in that category, she was the sweetest person I have ever met, she was always open to conversation on all topics and her Father and my Grandfather was the head of the Democratic party in his town in Ohio. I think if either of them were alive today they would be shaking their heads.

I will always be a Catholic, had all my kids baptized Catholics but none of them have received communion or confirmation, that is their decision to make not mine. I told them one thing to believe in God and at that on judgement day there will only be 1 person to answer to, and don't let anyone scare you into thinking that you will go to hell, because they are not the judge.

I agree with that completely. I wish I could have said something today but nooooo I must be reserved, granted I wasnt that near him.

This is about that letter that did talk about abortion, but it also left the issue of communion up to each individual Bishop. Also, in another letter, Ratzinger added Catholics could vote for a pro-abortion candidate for public office if they did for "proportionate reasons" despite that candidate's "permissive" pro-abortion stance. So I'm not completely convinced that Ratziner is going to continue making abortion as primary of an issue as it has been for politics, but I'm not convinced he won't either.

He turned all those Catholics against Kerry for Bush (like he is so deeply religious). As a person who attended a Catholic school, his makes me mad.

-- Democrats of the New Deal variety. They naturally loved the Kennedys and who could blame them, and they voted dutifully for Johnson, then Humphrey against Nixon.

Many bolted and went for Nixon against McGovern, but came back when Carter whupped Ford (barely).

They stuck with Carter against Reagan, went strongly for Dukakis against Poppy, for Clinton over Poppy, Clinton over Dole, and Gore-Lieberman over Dubya.

Needless to say, no one since John and Robert Kennedy has inspired them more than John Kerry. STRONGLY for the Kerry-Edwards ticket.

That group runs in age from about age 12 through about the upper 80s now, and they all root for or vote for Democrats.

Most still practice as Catholics and were rooting for the French guy or one of the Central or South American guys.

Yeah I was liking Hummes for the job myself.

-- around global goals. Surely a better choice than Cardinal Ratzinger.

I was downtown when the white smoke puffed out of the chimney in St. Peter's Basillica and had my Walkman on. They cut to St. Peter's Square and the radiio played the bells there, and at the same time the local downtown Catholic churches here also played their bells, too.

It was a chaos of bells.

On a brighter note, I saw Kerry for the very first time today.

-- I would have asked you to give him word that I and many, many others regard him as the legitimately-elected president of this nation instead of that shit-souled halfwit who's in the White House instead.

If you got to see John Kerry today, JohnKleeb, you had one hell of a fine day indeed.

Congratulations.

out, add to the fact I am shy too.

-- he would have heard every damn syllable and made you feel at ease and welcome.

I get this huge sense of a big-hearted human being when John-Teresa-John-Elizabeth are on the screen. I've never met them, but when they're interviewed, I want them to adopt me.

When Dubya is interviewed, I want to defect to Cuba!

I dont think anyone understood. Kerry to me has always been a cool uncle type.

-- how totally boss your Thanksgiving table would be to sit at.

Can the rest of us come, too? I'll bring the sweet potatoes.

:) mmmmmmmm thanksgiving at the Kerry's and Alexandra Kerry's beauty.

? No I'd like a keg.

I'm off to Lullabye Town & want to say thanks for this cyber-conversation, JK.

(Wow did you ever luck out on initials!)

'Night.

good night. I was however named after two great men.

Like he is so perfect and religious. Does anyone think this could be a problem for Kerry if he decides to run again?

There is a real liberal group (my family) pro-birth control, pro-choice, etc, and also a real conservative group. I guess many of the arch-conservatives voted Bush, despite him being a Catholic basher. (????)

More liberal Catholics, of course, voted Kerry, who himself is a Catholic. The area in MA where I grew up is filled with French and Portuguese Catholics who are quite liberal.