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So. Do we think this is really going to happen?

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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 08:58 AM
Original message
So. Do we think this is really going to happen?
I swear, a new day, a new outrage. I'm asking you politically savvy and experienced types to weigh in and give their educated guesses. Urban legend? Or real possibility? And if possible, what do we do about it?

Via Suburban Guerrilla, from the Dallas Morning News:

Congressional Republicans, persisting in hopes of enacting some form of private Social Security option despite opposition from the public and the Democrats, are considering the same kind of maneuver that enabled them to pass a controversial Medicare drug bill two years ago.

That’s the clear signal from key GOP congressional leaders and chief White House strategist Karl Rove, one of the main architects of the Social Security proposal that President Bush made his top 2005 priority.

Mr. Rove, speaking to college students and lobbyists before Congress went on its current recess, said the House would act next month and the Senate soon after, according to the congressional newspaper The Hill .

And Rep. Bill Thomas, R-Calif., chairman of the Ways and Means Committee and one of his party’s canniest operatives, said without giving details that his panel would introduce a retirement security bill in September. <...>

Because the Senate had passed a similar bill, Republicans could take the measure to a Senate-House conference. By excluding most Democrats from any role, they crafted the kind of bill they wanted in the first place.

That would appear to be their hope for private Social Security accounts – pass a bill in the House authorizing private accounts, accept any Social Security vehicle in the Senate that gets the issue to conference and write a final version letting the White House proclaim success.

In recent weeks, various members have floated several different versions that could form the basis of a GOP bill.

Some House Republicans, including Rep. Sam Johnson of Plano, would use Social Security’s current surpluses for private accounts, rather than to curb the overall budget deficit. But that not only would fail to address the system’s solvency, it also is likely to make the budget situation worse.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Are the Republicans nuts? This will cost them the '06 elections.
It became obvious last spring that the foot soldiers of the Republican party, the Religious Right, felt uneasy about privatizing SS. Total * supporters who were pro-life and anti-gay marriage were saying things like -- well, please don't start any more wars and no more tax cuts, please. But in a pinch, maybe they would support him.

But now Katrina changes everything. Confidence in the prez is at a record low. The Ownership Society agenda was never all that popular, even during the campaign.

Yes, I want the Dems to pick up seats in '06, but not at the price of looking at a privatized SS!!!!! Say it ain't so, Whometense.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm sincerely hoping it ain't so.
But they have such a long history of arm-twisting and of sneaking in provisions that weren't even voted on into bills in committee (from which meetings dems are routinely excluded that it could happen.

I just don't know.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deja vu all over again
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 10:10 AM by TayTay
I posted on this several times in here. The Rethugs will absolutely do this. This is why they are in office. This is what they do. I may hate the bastards, I may despise their policies but I have to give them credit for one thing. They abso-friggin-lutely do what they say they are going to do. When they are blocked in one way, they find a sneaky go-around way.

The Rethug agenda will not be put off by anything. Not mass death in Iraq, not mass death in the Gulfport region. Nothing. Have you seen the hate mail going around blaming the crisis in New Orleans on the poor themselves. It seems that this is the end result of the welfare state and that those who died, got what they deserved. If they had been thinking, they never would have chosen poor black people as parents. It's their fault.

The Rethug agenda, for real, is to defund the government, end all entitlement programs, end all programs that don't fund defense, end the labor movement, remove any barriers to the 'free market' system and remove the ability of the marginalized to petition their government for a redress of greivances. This is why they want 'tort reform', in order to remove the right of people to sue companies and government agencies in court. This is why the don't care about FEMA or any of that stuff.

They do not care. They want Social Security gone. Not a little, not amended, not any of that. They want a trojan horse style assault that will destroy social security as an effective poverty reduction program from within by weakening it's funding system.

These people will do what they said they would do. It's as simple as that. Grover Norquist is not satisfied with his bathtub in New Orleans. He wants to drown the rest of the country and remove anything that doesn't funnel money into his friends hands. They have publicly stated this. It is their goal. It's what they live for and fight for and amassed power to do.

It's why we still fight. Someone has to fight these bastards.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yow, TayTay.
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 10:16 AM by whometense
Don't sugarcoat it. :P

Just teasing. I know you're right. Did you hear the discussion on Morning Sedition this am about the Patriot Act? Same f***ing story. Make up whatever shit you want. Don't give anyone a chance to read it, let alone think about it. Hold the vote open long enough to threaten the lives of whatever household pets (and if necessary family members) you might need to in order to squeeze out enough votes to pass the criminal mess.

Right now I would give my right arm for two hours alone with JK in an unbugged room just to hear him talk about his view of what the democratic endgame might be. Are they counting on violence in the streets? Even that would only be an excuse for martial law. How do we get rid of them and return to a government ruled by sweet reason?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. They've been selling it for a while
If they call it something completely different and confuse people into thinking it isn't part of social security, they might try to pass this. With this FEMA disaster though, I'm not sure they'd dare mess around with something as important to the poor and minorities as social security. We could end up with a true uprising, unlike anything we've seen since the revolution.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Another outrage
Via Raw Story:

Republicans block efforts to amend relief bill, hold vote without providing copy of bill
John Byrne

In the wake of what the Wall Street Journal projected may be the most expensive natural disaster in American history, the Republican Leadership in the House of Representatives limited floor consideration of the $52 billion Katrina relief bill proposed by President Bush and voted to reject any Democratic efforts to amend the bill to include a wider array of relief measures, RAW STORY has learned.

Democrats said no one had even seen a copy of the legislation.

Voting along party lines, Republicans denied a measure that would have allowed for two hours of discussion and opened up the measure to be amended.

The Republican leadership pushed through a Suspension Rule in the House Rules Committee that blocked any members from offering amendments to the bill. Rep. Louise M. Slaughter (D-NY), the ranking Democrat on the Committee, led opposition to the rule. . . .



How do you vote intelligently on a bill you haven't even seen?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. This is something the Dems need to be vocal about.
I don't know how you get Mr & Mrs Joe Six-pack to turn off American Idol and even let this seep into their brains, but if it ever did get in there, even Mr. Six-pack wouldn't much like that their elected representatives are being forced to cast votes on bills they haven't had a chance to even review.

It wasn't just this one 'emergency' episode. The rethugs have been pulling stuff like this over and over again. (Like 24 hours to review the 3000-page omnibus spending bill last fall.)

My frustration is how to you get this across to average Americans? How do you get through to people that this is what's going on?
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I sincerely wish I knew.
We can blog till our fingers bleed, and all we're really doing is helping to raise the volume so maybe some credentialed media person will run with it. And spreading the word to the already receptive.

Outrage fatigue?? We're talking outrage EXHAUSTION.

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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. good news on this from Raw Story!
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democrats_will_oppose_Katrina_committees_Sham_and_0908.html

Democrats will oppose Katrina committees; 'Sham and a charade'
RAW STORY

The top Congressional Democrats announced their opposition Thursday to the creation of a GOP-led bicameral committee to examine federal, state and local relief efforts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, ROLL CALL reported Thursday morning. Excerpts follow (full paid article.

Calling it a sham and a charade, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said she will not appoint anyone from her Caucus to the joint committee. And Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will urge his Democratic colleagues not to serve on the panel, a senior aide said Thursday morning.

Democrats said they are frustrated that Republican leaders announced the formation of the committee Wednesday afternoon without first consulting them on the matter. . . .(more)

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