Condi thread

Dodd: "Is there a White House Syria Group?"

OMG. No gloves today. Hagel too. The knives are out.

Biden talked aobut setting some measurements for the American people so we can figure out if there has been any progress. (He sort of wimped out at the end though.)

Dodd is doing well.

is trying in his own wimpy way to hold her feet to the fire.

There appears to be a lot of concern on the committee that there may be some cowboyesque military actions forthcoming against Syria.

But Condi doesn't want to get in the way of the president's "war powers." :scared:

I am in and out this morning. (Real world work sigh!)

I'm glad to hear that Chaffee is working to pin her down. (He still looks like Charle Nelson Reilly to me. All he has to do is bite his lip and it would be a complete picture.)

I always picture him in a Confederate soldier uniform--I don't know why! Maybe it's his hairstyle? His name? :shrug:

The Kerry chair is still empty! :(

by the time they get to his turn.

But the repugs are giving her as much heat as the dems are today.

Edited to add: I really dislike Condi. She's slippery, but has that quavery "don't hit me" voice that sets my teeth on edge.

She was so clearly lying that day. Ugh.

I hate the way she won't answer Kerry's questions directly--but gets off on a tangent and burns up all of his time! She did this last winter, too. :grr:

Allen speaking - kerry should be next.

Allen alert. Put your stoopid hats on.

Getting caught up with Dodd.

OMG George Allen. Maalox.

The seeds of liberty are taking root there (Iraq.)

Condi, let me kiss your arse.

verbal tic - whenever someone asks her a pointed question she doesn't want to answer, she prefaces her response with a deep breat and a "Well, senator,..."

He is now praising the Iraqi Constitution. Great, unless your a woman or a religious minority.

I should have just stopped listening. Thank goodness Kerry will go next, if he wants.

What? Biggest run-on sentences ever. Condi: Any help on the way? Are we going to continue to do what we've been doing? (Not that that's working, but Barfbag would never say this.)

Everything Allen says sounds like a campaign speech to me - full of bluster and windbaggery and hollow posturing. I'm not sure even he believes a word he says.

What is victory?

Condi punts?

I think I sense a change for Kerry in his views. That intro was fascinating.

Are we trying to resolve a political situation with a military solution? Whoa, this is very, very direct. He's coming oh so close.....

She's Condilying again. We need more time for a political solution. Against Kerry clearly saying, "Our presence in Iraq might be making it worse. According to our military leaders and surveys of the IRaqi people."

Oh so close.....

His views have very much evolved, haven't they??

He always was good on this. But he started with the Vietnam statement from Laird (!!!!!)

He is just moving that final step, oh so close......

The Iraqi gov't and your own generals disagree with you.

"That is not what you told us and the American people". He said that twice when she said it takes time for the Iraqis to install a democracy.

This is great stuff. Very, very confrontational. He will not let up and Condi is dancing as fast as she can.

she will be afraid to come back.

KErry was right, he has 10 minutes (which he stretched to 15 minutes) and that's all he's had in 7 months.

The Admin needs to report more to the Congress. They do not want to be held accountable.)

Now, where is that Iraq speech. I want it now more than ever. This was great stuff today.

the last few minutes (real work intruded). What did I miss???

The basic problem was that the Admin is just now getting around to solving the Sunni vs. Shi'ite question.

Condi punted by saying that this ia a centuries old problem. Well, yeah, but you should have known this before you invaded.

Condi punts. And punts. and punts.

Kerry also mentioned that the Iraqi prez said on a visit to DC that we could draw down 40 or 50,000 beginning in Dec. Then the WH got to him and that went away.

Sigh! Kerry was excellent. What a day he's having, huh!

Best question of the day, so far: What is victory? (or to put it another way, What noble cause?)

I wish everyone was so lucky as to be represented by a John Kerry. How's that cloning program going?

On the other hand, one politician is probably enough for any one family to handle!


The most important point he made today is that Iraq isn't going to solve its problems militarily--that it requires a political solution. And why are our troops there if they aren't doing anything to promote a solution?

Second (but obvious point): Condi is full of it as usual.


He looked like he wished he'd brought some of those "bullshit protectors" for his ears this morning. And so did most of the committee!

his arms for Tay Tay, and his "rosy cheeks" and his nose for "MS. POET OF THE YEAR", and now I'm working on his great "butt in jeans" for the rest of us. Gotta get the help of a few "Fitzmas Elves" to make dupicates for y'all, while I continue to work on the rest of him! How's zat for progress! O8) :bounce: :evilgrin:

First she said the Shia and Sunnis weren't that different, then she talked about the thousand years of hatred between them. I can't stand her patronizing voice (especially when she tried to explain to Kerry what the terrorists were doing.)

I really can't wait to hear his speech - his comments on the Iraqis and the military thinking we're the problem is interesting.

And by the way, f*** Condi. IRAQ AND 9/11. She has NO CREDIBILITY. Why would anyone buy for an instant her "remarkable progress" crap? Anyone with half a brain, anyone. I guess that eliminates Martinez.

It is good he's speaking up though. It is brilliant of Kerry to quote him to say what Kerry has said for months on his own.

Everyone knows his history--it called all of that up again, but so subtly, and in a good way...and he's right, this is the same thing all over again. And quoting a Nixon adm. guy--brilliant.

Turning against the war?

The elections in Dec are his breaking point, I think. If things don't get better after that, or move in a positive direction, I think what he told Cindy will start to manifest itself in his actions.

We know this. I want her to challenge Condiliar with direct questioning. I think Kerry was more effective. I like Boxer, but I think she is blowing her chance here.

She's not a prosecutor. And Condi is too slippery at avoiding direct answers for her to get anywhere with this approach.

He is cool but effective. When you launch an emotional attack, you get one back, and it gives your opponent a sense of empowerment. In Condi's case, she loves the "righteous indignation" pose.

God, she's really making me sick today.

And Condi has so many new lies. Kerry caught her not just on what the Admin went to war on, but justified it by what is happening right now, on the ground, on this very day.

I love Boxer. But she is going on old stuff.

or is Condi's argument essentially, "we know what's best. shut up and take it."

She is using 9/11 to justify the invasion again. Shameless. Her twist on the argument is that the ideology pervasive in the Middle East was what attacked us. (Excuse me?)

Kerry and Boxer did a good job. I missed Feingold. How did he do?

AND I WANT THAT SPEECH! This was like looking at the menu, placing an order and now I am waiting for the damn meal to arrive. (I can smell it. I can almost taste it. Now bring the damn plate on.)

Gawd he is oh so close.

Damned work. ;-)

Anyone willing to fill us in???

he said he thinks our policy in Iraq is obstructing the greater policy of fighting the global war on terrorism. The troops are fueling the insurgency--and even "your people" (WH) are saying this now. We owe this country some leadership. We need a flexible timetable for withdrawal, because that will weaken the insurgency more than anything else we can do. Quoted Laird as saying this. If we don't set a timetable, we are playing into the insurgents' hands.

Condi denies this is true, blah blah.

It was jarring to me every time she said the words "the president" as if that denoted some kind of person we were supposed to respect. Puh-leeze.

The callers on Washington Journal too--I always know where they stand the minute they say "the president"--because the rest of us are repulsed by the term in connection with *.

But maybe it's just me reading too many tea leaves, but she doesn't seem to have quite her usual spunk--like the reported tension in the WH is affecting her. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

She seems not willing to do anything but evade her previous statements and try to re-spin them to fit the current debacle.

sitting in the middle of the hearing room, isn't it?

No one will mention it, but it has to be part of everyone's thinking - including hers. I wonder if she has any vestigial sense of irony at all when she still links Iraq and 9/11. Who on earth is buying that at this point??

They're all skirting around it, though. Nelson is. It's very clear that the senators are hearing plenty from their constituents about Iraq, and it's crystal clear what the message is that they are receiving.

who's still on board with the WH? I count Allen and Martinez--anyone else out of the 9?

He seemed to call her on the whole process of going to war. Ane brought up Vietnam. Her voice sounded SOOOO defensive.

I only heard Obama and Nelson. It sounds like Condi probably will avoid the committee for another 10 or so months.

Kerry comes on about 2 hours into the event. It's worth the rewind. It should replay on C-Span. (I can't watch the whole thing again. I usually gestimate the time that what I want to see is one and Tvio around it.)

so maybe it will be archived there.

If I can find it I really want to see it. I lost track of time so didn't watch it.

It looks like there's an archive here: http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/hearings/2005/hrg051019a.html

It may only be audio, but better than nothing. http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/archives/2005/archive101905.ram

No! I was wrong!! It's video!!! Cool. I'm going to watch it again tonight - the part I missed, that is. And JK again. :blush:

on the floor of the Senate right now.

Teddy Kennedy's bill to raise the minimum wage has been attacked. The lowly Rethug scum hae managed to attach a 2nd degreee Amendment to it that is a wish list of everything that Unfeeling Big Business wants to shove down the throats of labor. (No overtime. Tons of exemptions from the minimum wage, etc.) Hillary was on the floor denouncing this. I don't know if we will get a Kerry speech on this, but we should. And his LIHEAP amendment was mentioned several times.

Cello lesson today (music helps).

Is there a cutoff, or are they likely to be going over this till hell freezes over? Why, do you suppose the thugs in congress imagine their approval ratings are in the toilet? Are they so secure in their positions that they feel they can screw their constituents with impunity? Do they think no one will notice? Shit. I wish Fitz could indict the entire repuke party.

Enjoy the lesson. The debate is pathetic. Judd Gregg should be taken out and forced to clean toilets for ahwile. See how the other half lives.

I missed most of this today.

I missed all of this today. Y'all did a great job with the play by play.

in case anyone wants fo FF to it.

not to be overly sensitive, but did anyone else notice how pointedly Lugar commented about senators not going over their time right before Kerry started to speak?

Lugar was also quite grumpy when Kerry finished, although he did allow that he hadn't wanted to interrupt such an "important line of questioning." :-)

made a comment both before and after Sen Kerry spoke.
TFB, a-hole. Whatcha gonna do about it?

I must add that the Senator looked quite good today, despite the apparent cold or something. Condi is intimidated by him. I love it.

To be fair to Condiliar, someone must have said something to her about the hair. It's much better. She's still a bush*-kissing moron, but the hair is much improved.

I don't think it was an accident that he led off with the quote from Melvin Laird and prominently mentioned him and his role as SecDef under Nixon. Lessons learned from Vietnam were mentioned.

I found this fascinating. I found the reference to the Admin not doing much of anything to resolve the political differences between the Shia and the Shi'ites interesting. I found his references to Iraqi Prez coming here and saying we could withdraw 40-50,000 American troops by DEc (and Gen. Casey saying the same thing) and then going to the White House and taking it back. What I heard is that Iraq is a tradmill and we can't get off.

Condi defended with weak arguments. (Whatever I think of Condi's thruthfullness, I think she is an intelligent woman. I was surprized her arguments were so weak today.) She pulled out the old chestnut that compared Iraq to America and our diffcult path to full equality of all citizens. (Weak and a reach. We invaded Iraq. It is not the same.) She then fell back on the old, we are trying, but what do you expect, these differences are centuries old. (Kerry easily nailed her by pointing out that the Admin said differently when the war was first proposed.)

I want to see the transcript. Lerry enumerated some of the things that he said would lead him to think this was a quagmire. (That's what I heard, but I want to read this.) I also heard the beginnings of a strong argument for withdrawal. What do you guys hear? (Upon reflection.)

and that Condi had her hair done.

But on reflection, most of what he said seemed to indicate he wants us out asap.
He hit bush* right off the bat with 'same ol, same ol'
The Laird quote was an effective first volley. "West Texas cowboy aproach is not working."
"How do you define victory?" (Go get her, Senator.)
"We all understand what it is." (Tell me something I dont know.)
"What you're saying begs a political solution, not a military solution." (Wrong war, Wrong time).
"There's nothing in the constitution that resolves the fundamental divide." (Just because it's on paper, doesn't mean it's an answer to the problem...)
"You're the ones that set the date..."
"Our military presence is as much a part of the problem..."
"The majority of Iraqis oppose our presence."
"That's not what you told America and that's not what you told this committee." (You LIED!)

Condi's voice is shaking at this point.

Talibani and Gen Casey said we could withdraw at end of year, but you and the admin had a view that was quite different.

Condi backpeddling.

"I would suggest that's not the only other answer...Sunni neighbors need to get involved..."

He needs a speech. There is no way to make this point in 15 min with Condi spewing through half of it. Yes, what I heard was that it's time to work on getting out.

And I do think he has a cold.

was still answering Kerry later on in the hearing when someone else was questioning her. I want that tidbit in here too. (Although it's not the first time that a witness at a hearing has been answering Kerry's questions long after he quit asking them LOl!)

I want that speech. I couldn't agree with you more. I heard tantalizing hints of Sen. Kerry's thinking now and I want to hear more in a longish speech. I know that we in this group follow things very, very closely and are apt to pick up on little nuances, but I think there were some substantial ideas in this exchange that have to be fully brought out. (Tease!)

BTW, complements on the summary of the exchange. Nice work.

Great summary

the transcript. Kerry seemed to be speaking very precisely and often tersely. Condi's voice sounded like she was either angry or very shook by Kerry. She change 180 degrees on whether there were fundamental differences between the Shiites and the Sunnis, first saying there weren't than saying there's 1000 years of animosity between them. Kerry then explained the difference succinctly - and talked about bringing in the neighbors to get a better compromise.
(She was then and later nasty - implying Kerry didn't care that the Sunnis ran the country by exploiting the others.)

It does seem Kerry is building a case for getting out (probably gradually). That was Laird's point (I hadn't realized till I saw the video from Whome's link what Kerry quoted - It was harsher language than he has used himself!) He also said at least twice that both the Iraqis and our military thought we were part of the problem. He referred to the Iraqis saying we could withdraw a pretty significant number of soldiers (30,000?) by the end of this year - until the WH talked them out of it. He also said Casey had said to the Armed Services committee that we could get a similar number out by Christmas.

I translate this to:
Laird says it can become Vietnam (quagmire)
The Iraqis and the military agree - we are becoming the problem
The Iraqi leaders and polls and our military say we should start leaving.

Reading between (non-existent lines)
- The WH house is pushing against both are military and the sovereign government of Iraq on our duration there.

- There is only one fully trained Iraqi battalion

- The Bushies rejected (with scorn) the Kerry suggestion that they send promising Iraqis to Egypt, Jordan, Germany or France - all of which were willing to train them.

Implies:
They are lying about why we are still there OR they are incompetent. It's now 10 months since Kerry suggested the remote training - how many battalions would we have if this were followed?

Condi is now open that we were spreading "democracy" from the beginning. (They lied then)

Is it possible that all those Hagel/Kerry Kerry/McCain dealt with the fact that the military is at odds with the administration?

I think he is going to advance a case for withdrawal for the reasons you enumerated above. It is a logical progression from ideas he stated ever since the IWR.

And it was a brilliant beginning to his questioning. (Yeah, my guy is wicked smaht. Sorry, couldn't resist.)

I still want the transcript. This stuff goes by so fast and they know so much more than I do that they can speak in an almost code about what is really going on. Me, with my lesser understanding of foreign affairs, have to play catch-up. That's why I read the transcripts. I'm sure there are things I missed. Sigh!


Geez, I didn't even ask. Would people be interested in a transcript of the exchange today between KErry and Rice? It would be 4 or 5 pages, printed out.

I was at work all day.
Why was Condi on center stage in the Senate today?

I don't know why she was there, but I appreciate
all the posts to let me know how it went.

Kinda like playing Jeaporady - knowing the answer, before knowing the question.

He's at about 2:18:00 or so. Sorry if that gets you the end of Allen.

On the replay? Yikes, I was hoping it would be before that. I don't think I can make it that long.

He's two hours and 18 min into the vid.

edit for link to video

http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/archives/2005/archive101905.ram

Is he up after Senator Barfbag? I'm watching the replay on Cspan now, and that's who's up. I'll stay up for a while longer if JK's up soon.

On edit: Never mind. He's up.

It's part of this abandoned theory of Constitutional government that holds that the Congress has oversight on the Administration. Officials such as the Secretary of State are supposed to go to Congress (which constitutionally holds the purse strings, after all, on all spending) and report on what they are doing, how they are doing their job and what the state of foreign affairs really are, as seen by this high Administration official.

Sigh! Condi was confirmed in Jan. She appeared before the SFRC of the Senate in March and then blew them off ever since. Kerry (and all the other Senators) have had little more than 15 minutes since March to question Her Majesty, the Queen of Foreign Policy.

This point was made repeatedly at the hearing. Condi should be there bi-monthly at least. We are at war and the people, through their duly elected representatives in Congress, should be able to ask questions about Admin policy.

But that was the old theory of a republic. * and his haughty, arrogant and aloof bunch of criminals don't believe they should be held responsible for anything and blow off requests for appearances before the Congress regularly.

Can you imagine if Cheney gets canned, and she has to take over as VP?
Ha.

Did you see her squirm on MTP Sunday?
Russert asked her about what she tought about only 2% of African-Americans approving of *.

We'll have to coin a new phrase about doing the Condi-squirm.
But need to come up with something more clever than that.

Kudos to whoever came up with Condiliar:toast:

:rofl: :rofl:

Because the VP might be a shoo in for President, I wonder if she could win. That confirmation hearing could also be a back door for opening up the DSM and the rest of Part II of the Intelligence report plus Condi's excellent job in making sure as national security advisor that Bush took the "Bin Laden set to strike in US " report with appropriate seriousness.

did a pretty long segment on the SFRC hearing tonight. And they showed Kerry questioning Condi. Nice.