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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:13 PM
Original message
Everyone already read Cheney's latest attack?
Be sure to take blood pressure meds before reading.

Via Dan Froomkin. WaPo transcript here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/17/AR2005111700365.html

Beset by charges that President Bush misled the nation in the run-up to war in Iraq, the White House recently started lashing back at its critics. And last night, everything got kicked up a notch: Bush sent his biggest attack dog into the fight and let him loose.

Headlining a black tie dinner for a conservative research group, Vice President Cheney wasted no time making it clear he was out for blood.

Here's the transcript .

    "It's a pleasure to see all of you," he said. "I'm sorry we couldn't be joined by Senators Harry Reid, John Kerry, and Jay Rockefeller. They were unable to attend due to a prior lack of commitment. (Laughter.) I'll let you think about that one for a minute. (Applause.) "


Enough with the small talk:

    "Most of you know, I have spent a lot of years in public service, and first came to work in Washington back in the late 1960s. I know what it's like to operate in a highly charged political environment, in which the players on all sides of an issue feel passionately and speak forcefully. In such an environment people sometimes lose their cool, and yet in Washington you can ordinarily rely on some basic measure of truthfulness and good faith in the conduct of political debate. But in the last several weeks we have seen a wild departure from that tradition. And the suggestion that's been made by some U.S. senators that the President of the United States or any member of this administration purposely misled the American people on pre-war intelligence is one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city. (Applause.)

    "Some of the most irresponsible comments have, of course, come from politicians who actually voted in favor of authorizing the use of force against Saddam Hussein. . . .

    "What we're hearing now is some politicians contradicting their own statements and making a play for political advantage in the middle of a war. The saddest part is that our people in uniform have been subjected to these cynical and pernicious falsehoods day in and day out. American soldiers and Marines are out there every day in dangerous conditions and desert temperatures --- conducting raids, training Iraqi forces, countering attacks, seizing weapons, and capturing killers --- and back home a few opportunists are suggesting they were sent into battle for a lie.

    "The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone --- but we're not going to sit by and let them rewrite history. (Applause.)

    "We're going to continue throwing their own words back at them."
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not to be a cliche, but Go f*** yourself, Mr. Cheney!! n/t
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Everyone should go read
Edited on Thu Nov-17-05 02:23 PM by whometense
Froomkin's entire column. It's all about the administration's newly launched "third presidential campaign -- this one to salvage his reputation, and what's left of his second term." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/11/17/BL2005111700875_pf.html

And just like the other two campaigns, it's going to be insult, attack, smear, and obfuscate. I wonder how the media will cover it, and how the american voters will react to it. Seems like a loser to me - but what do I know?

Obviously John Thune got the memo.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Being positively hateful as your numbers sink can't make sense.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. That's what it seems to me.
George McGovern was on Ed Schultz's show yesterday, and Ed asked him what advice (hahaha) he'd give to Georgie Dubya. McGovern was his mature, reasonable, intelligent, diplomatic self, talking about how Dubya ought to fess up, seek middle ground, correct his mistakes, etc.

And they are of course doing the complete opposite of what makes sense. I think Ginny is right - it's all they know how to do, but the poll numbers seem to indicate that people are just FED UP with the viciousness and the lying. If people think Bush is a liar, how is calling Kerry et al liars going to help them?
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. it's the only thing Rove knows to do
Campaign-style smears, his specialty. Only thing is, you need a bit of credibility for this to work!

They can't answer the charges, so they attack the messenger(s). Haha!This is just what the Dems need now to keep this topic in the news. Only the koolaid drinkers are buying anything Cheney has to offer.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. hee hee - GO TEDDY!!!!
Edited on Thu Nov-17-05 02:31 PM by whometense
"No one believes a word the VP is saying....The country won't have it it this time."

Teddy and I are in sync today. :-)
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Massa chusetts rocks today in the Senate.
Ow, ow, ow, my arm hurts from patting myself on the back. (Bad TayTy)

But we do rock today. Uncle Teddy is awesome and so is my rgreatly esteemed JR. Sen. Sigh! We rock!
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Grassley bites back
Right now. I guess he got the talking points too.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. but he ASSUMES that in the Senate he gets the same information
as Bush. Talking about Robb-Silverman. Seems to ignore there was no part 2 done.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Seriously, this stuff
makes my head hurt. Arguing with republicans on this subject is like arguing with a room full of two year olds.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Seems a war to win public opinion on whether the Intelligence
Edited on Thu Nov-17-05 02:51 PM by karynnj
was cooked. They are both trying to demonize each other. I like it that Kerry is more than any one else sounding alnost like a proscecutor stating the facts.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I also like the way the argument
is pushing him more and more into the leadership role on this. Kos must be having kittens, but by the time they're done, Bush and Cheney will have done more to boost Kerry's profile than anyone could have imagined.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. the funny thing about that Froomkin article
is that * doesn't say the charges are untrue--he only states that it is "irresponsible" for the Dems to say them. Hmmm.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. It shows how much faith they have
in the power of the smear. They don't feel any need whatsoever to try to refute the charges with facts. Or arguments. They just sling the mud around in hopes that everything will get so dirty that people will just give up trying to understand the truth. It's SO low.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. They dont really care if they need to pull some troops out,
all they will say it that it is the fault of knee-weak Democrats like Murtha or Kerry who have ceded to the far left wing. They are preparing that already. NRO has exhumed this from their archives this week. Pure chance?



http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200511170844.asp

John Kerry’s America
What he said about us.

By William F. Buckley Jr.

EDITOR'S NOTE: This is the text of William F. Buckley Jr.'s June 8, 1971, commencement address to the United States Military Academy at West Point. The speech appears here as it is in Let Us Talk of Many Things : The Collected Speeches.

.

That Bush and Cheney lied is more problematic as it could eventually lead to impeachment or replacement of Cheney, OTOH.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Wow.
He really is getting under their skins.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Yup!
That's what the Kerry critics in GD don't understand: the depths to which these people would go to stop Kerry. Mind you, they are against all Democratic opposition; they stopped Gore, but they launched a full-scale attack to completely distort Kerry's efforts and record.

Having said that, and given what I believed happened in the 2004 election, I don't believe they were sucessful. They continue to attack Kerry because he still represents the biggest threat to their agenda.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Mass, I saw this and was about to post it, but had to run.
You are so right. These people are nasty and have been preparing for war and Democratic opposition for decades. They must have their way.

Thanks for posting!
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I just found that, too and read it with interest (since it was from 1971)
I mean, how could Buckley come away from that speech thinking that Kerry hates America? It is obvious from everything I've ever read about Kerry, including his time spent in Europe, how much he LOVES America and simply will not stand for its name to be lowered by irresponsible and sometimes even evil government officials.

I guess I didn't think about the fact that it was a hit piece for today, until you mentioned that.

Nixon is returning from the dead indeed . . .
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Totally random
I assume Mr Buckley has not changed his opinion. What amazes me is how he completely misinterprets Kerry's idealistic closing. Wasn't Buckley a Yale person too?
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. And a big admirer of Senator Joseph McCarthy
I just saw Clooney's movie "Good Night and Good Luck". At some point, McCarthy wants Buckley to make the rebuttal on Edward Murrow's program.

So I assume that he is still strongly in their camp.
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. RIGHT!
I forgot that!

Also, my husband swears there was some mention in that movie of Ted Stevens, but I didn't catch it, did you?
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Lots of Yalies
Are not too fond of JK. He was too middle class for them.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. and too liberal
and too UNSTUFFY. Buckley seems the picture of the aloof elite snob that Kerry would or could never be.
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Haha, that too.
It's ironic, isn't it?
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. typical Repub tactic: erect a "straw man" then shoot it down.
Edited on Thu Nov-17-05 03:38 PM by ginnyinWI
At the time they wanted really badly to ressurect and grow the conservative movement, so Kerry's testimony gave them a good opportunity to distort and attack the left.
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. They're trying to do that again
and it's backfiring again :)
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Let them spew their BS.
The dems are in control now. The administration is falling apart.
And so is one of their main pundits - O'lielly.

The repugs are voting against all Americans that aren't in the top 1%, voting against LIHEAP, medicaid, gas profiteering... what else?!

All they are doing is making fools out of themselves.

And I have to say this because it feels soooooo good -

Mr. Cheney is a very bad man.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. or as Lynn Cheney said
"This is not a good man!" Projecting her own husband's description onto JK, who is actually a very good man!.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. Here is by far some of the best stuff written about Kerry,
Edited on Thu Nov-17-05 04:15 PM by ProSense
steeped as it is in NYT spin (I totally believe the media is complicit in having distorted Kerry's position) and Bush/Cheney lies.

This stuff counters the nonsense we hear about Kerry.

Kerry's Undeclared War
By MATT BAI

Published: October 10, 2004


snip...

In a series of combative speeches and statements, and in a crisp performance at the first head-to-head debate, Kerry has argued that Bush's war in Iraq is a disaster, that troops should be brought home before the end of the next presidential term and that the Iraq war is a ''profound diversion'' from the war on terror and the real showdown with Al Qaeda.


snip...

This last point was what Kerry seemed to be getting at with his mantra of ''effectiveness,'' and it was in fact the main thrust of his campaign pitch about terrorism. By infuriating allies and diminishing the country's international esteem, Kerry argued, Bush had made it impossible for America to achieve its goals abroad. By the simple act of changing presidents, the country would greatly increase its chances of success in the global war on terror. Both candidates, in fact, were suggesting that the main difference between them was one of leadership style and not policy; just as Bush had taken to arguing that Kerry was too inconstant to lead a nation at war, Kerry's critique centered on the idea that Bush had proved himself too stubborn and arrogant to represent America to the rest of the world.

snip...

This analogy struck me as remarkable, if only because it seemed to throw down a big orange marker between Kerry's philosophy and the president's. Kerry, a former prosecutor, was suggesting that the war, if one could call it that, was, if not winnable, then at least controllable. If mobsters could be chased into the back rooms of seedy clubs, then so, too, could terrorists be sent scurrying for their lives into remote caves where they wouldn't harm us. Bush had continually cast himself as the optimist in the race, asserting that he alone saw the liberating potential of American might, and yet his dark vision of unending war suddenly seemed far less hopeful than Kerry's notion that all of this horror -- planes flying into buildings, anxiety about suicide bombers and chemicals in the subway -- could somehow be made to recede until it was barely in our thoughts.

snip...

Kerry came to his worldview over the course of a Senate career that has been, by any legislative standard, a quiet affair. Beginning in the late 80's, Kerry's Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and International Operations investigated and exposed connections between Latin American drug dealers and BCCI, the international bank that was helping to launder drug money. That led to more investigations of arms dealers, money laundering and terrorist financing.

Kerry turned his work on the committee into a book on global crime, titled ''The New War,'' published in 1997. He readily admitted to me that the book ''wasn't exclusively on Al Qaeda''; in fact, it barely mentioned the rise of Islamic extremism. But when I spoke to Kerry in August, he said that many of the interdiction tactics that cripple drug lords, including governments working jointly to share intelligence, patrol borders and force banks to identify suspicious customers, can also be some of the most useful tools in the war on terror.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/magazine/10KERRY.html?ei=5090&en=8dcbffeaca117a9a&ex=1255147200&partner=rssuserland&pagewanted=all

I still have this magazine at home. Remember the spin that was clouding the air when this article came out? Bush is tough on terra. Yeah right.
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