THAT'S it!!! I'm really ticked off

AND I think it's time given all the stuff we know about the TIMES, and the media propaganda and the fact they withheld information about Bush before the election, AND they refuse to fix the election fraud...

STARTING TOMORROW, I WILL NOT LEAVE HOME WITHOUT AN ORANGE RIBBON or an ORANGE SHIRT or an ORANGE SCARF.

PLease join me and invite everyone you know to join too.

MAKE IT SAY, "IMPEACH BUSH KERRY IS THE REAL PRESIDENT"

Who is with me on this?

What put you over the edge?

All of it!!!!

The fact that we are living in a fascist state. WE are so close to losing democracy!!!

Does anybody realize that?

Seriously...this is almost check-mate.

They own the FREE PRESS.
They own one party gov't.
They own the voting machines.
They will appoint Alito then the courts will be theirs too.
They manipulate everything.

AND they're using religion and extreme theocracy to make people bend to their will!

And you are right to be outraged. I just didn't know if there was a 'straw that broke the camel's back', so to speak. I've been angry at them for years now. Sometimes I get exhausted from being angry so much of the time. I think the spying thing may finally push a lot of people over the edge.

LET THEM SEE YOUR OUTRAGE IN ORANGE.

TIE AN ORANGE RIBBON AROUND THE OLD OAK TREE...

I agree. Personally, I haven't been angry since Impeachment Fiasco. Unless you call a low-level burn of disgust that hasn't dissipated since then "anger." LOL

As soon as I'm feeling a little better (once this cold/flu/bug has lessened), I'm heading to the store to find myself a bright orange scarf, so I can wear it in protest for the rest of the winter.

I was at a meeting for work the other day, and one of the people there started going off about the "War on Christmas" (okay, whatever) and how we are losing our democracy because we can't put the Ten Commandments in court houses or display a Nativity Scene on the lawn of the town hall. Several other people (including my boss) were agreeing strongly with her, saying how right she was. (These are not uneducated redneck hicks, btw.) What did I do to speak the truth and stand up for democracy? I'm very ashamed to say, not a damn thing. (This has been weighing heavily on my mind since Thursday morning.) I wanted to shout "Hey you dumb asses - Democracy is supposed to be a form of government that protects the minority NOT the majority, it's supposed to protect dissent!" Did I say that? No because the argument would have been at least 5 to 1 and they were all much, much louder than I am. (I also kind of want to keep my job - okay, that's just selfish.)

What the hell does one do in a situation like that? I keep my mouth shut all the time about a lot of things like religion, politics, you name it. Basically I feel that if I can't win the argument I don't go there, then I end up feeling terrible because I didn't stick up for my beliefs. I admire people like Vektor who stand up to the wingnuts in their red corners of the world. I wish I had that kind of courage.

What can we do to educate people about what Democracy really is short of having a shouting match with them? Any suggestions?

and my fundie inlaws are falling for it. It was in my email. I believe this is out there to take attention OFF the ideas of democracy and instead will promote anti-semetism as well as anti-anyone who doesn't agree with them.

Debbie Daniel

I'm on a "Merry Christmas" mission and I'm in full throttle. My little yellow VW Beetle has turned into a Christmas billboard with Merry Christmas written across the back window. Yes, I've decided to trek off to work everyday on the public highways with a message that seems to offend people.

At stop lights, I even turn my music up a little louder, and to top it off, I sing along with it. Don't I know that stopping at a red light to roll my windows down only to share the joy of Christmas carols on public streets is a No-No? Don't I fear the Christmas Gestapo and those who would have me remove the written message from my car?

I'm sorry folks, but the only person I'm concerned about "offending" during this Christmas season is the Lord himself. LEAVE THAT MANGER ALONE! We've allowed the Baby Jesus to be kicked out of His lowly manger, and those offended by Christmas are still not happy.

I refuse to let this happen. I'm going to do my part to make sure "Merry Christmas" doesn't become extinct. Because like it or not, if the believers in Christmas don't take a stand now, it's gone forever.

Listen folks, the Christian community has been underestimated before; we will have to show ourselves again.

I walked into a Wendy's Restaurant the other day and was rather exuberant with my "Merry Christmas" greeting to the manager. He didn't have much of a response and I said, "Where's your Christmas spirit?" He said, "We're not allowed to use the words "Merry Christmas" when greeting customers. We can only say "Happy Holiday."

This morning I grabbed a quick breakfast at a Whataburger Restaurant. I noticed there wasn't a single decoration in the store. I asked the manager why they weren't decorated for Christmas. He told me the corporate headquarters decided not to send any decorations to any of their stores, and he didn't know why.

After I heard about all the Macy's and Federated Stores taking down their Merry Christmas signs, the Target stores not allowing the Salvation Army to "Ring the Christmas bells," and the many incidents of children, choirs, and bands not allowed to play or sing Christmas carols, I realized it was happening right here in my own little Texas town.

How can this be? Not Texas!

We do, however, have a store, Hobby Lobby, that plays nothing but Christmas carols during the season. On Christmas Day they run a full page ad in our local newspaper. That ad is not to promote the store, but uses the entire page to tell the story of Jesus' birth. Now that's taking a stand. We need to thank them.

When I saw a news report the other evening of children being taught new words to a song we've sung for years - "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" - I was saddened to hear "We Wish You a Splendid Holiday."

I know now that it's just a matter of time that the "Merry Christmas" greetings will be gone. Look around your town. Notice the "Holiday" greetings and not "Christmas." It's happening right before our very eyes.

Start singing the songs; go down the streets of America singing to your heart's content. Get some of those wash-off markers that these kids use to write on their car windows when they're rooting for their hometown football team. It's easy to do, and if a torrential rain washes it off, write it on there again.

We've got to get this message out. "Go Tell It On the Mountain . . . that Jesus Christ is Born." Sing it, speak it, be a billboard for our Lord.

The story of this "Baby Jesus" alone has brought about more goodwill at this time of year than any other day we celebrate. How can we sit back and allow Him to be snuffed out of our lives?

Is it Jesus, or is it His followers that the "offended" don't like? What kind of revulsion galvanizes one to campaign so vehemently against the mere mention of His name, the mere singing of a carol, or the mere visual of a sign that says "Merry Christmas?"

I can listen to my own boss at work use some of the vilest words and follow up with, "Excuse my French." I may cringe inside at his damning of God's name, but I tolerate it. So if you don't like me wishing you a "Merry Christmas," I'll say, "Excuse my joy." You may cringe that I celebrate the birth of Jesus, but just tolerate it.

I cannot be concerned that "Merry Christmas" offends you. If I'm not careful, the day will come when saying I'm a Christian will offend you.

I'm offended that you're offended. How about that?

When we get to a point that we can no longer take part in a tradition we hold dear, we have no choice; we either defend that tradition or we give it up to those who say NO. That's it . . . period. So, which will it be?

I'm not giving up my "Merry Christmas" joy to anyone. If I know of someone that celebrates another holiday during this time of year, I will be glad to wish them whatever holiday they want. Just tell me what it is and I'll shout it to the world and wish you a grand celebration.

Just give me Christmas. To you merchants: Stop being so hypocritical and "filling your tills" on the back of Jesus! Who do you think is the symbol of giving at this time of year? It was the wise men bringing gifts to the newborn Christ-child.

You want your coffers full, but have ordered your employees to take down all the Merry Christmas signs. If that's the case, I'll buy gifts at a place that understands my joy.

If you're worried about offending someone, you just did. The most recent Newsweek survey shows that 82% of Americans believe that Jesus is the Son of God. So, in trying not to offend a few, you've offended many.

It's okay to jump into the "Merry Christmas" spirit when it fills your cash register, but let's call it something else . . . and don't stop giving . . . and don't stop buying. . . we'll just change the name and you'll never know the difference.

I know the difference and I'm feeling it greatly. It's hard not to be aware that townships across our country have actually banned the singing of Christmas carols because it might offend someone. And it's not just the religious songs; it's the secular ones too. No more "Jingle Bells" or "Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer" because they're associated with Christmas. Boy, aren't we getting sensitive?

If we're not celebrating Christmas for the hope it gives with the birth of our Savior . . . there is no hope!

I noticed a few years ago that we changed the name of Abraham Lincoln's and George Washington's birthday so as to be all inclusive regarding the Presidents. Hark, if we should recognize anyone as exceptional. Now it's called Presidents' Day.

Well, if we're going to be so all inclusive, next month I'll have to refer to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day as Civil Rights Leaders' Day. We don't want to exclude great Americans like Rosa Parks or Cesar Chavez, do we? And to think that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton might be left out.

We might need to change Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Grandparents' Day to All Parents' Day. Just lump them all together.

It sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? So what's the difference?

My freedom to celebrate Christmas in the tradition of the Christian religion is as much my right as it is your right to be offended by it. So what are we going to do? Did anyone hear me . . what are we going to do?

Do we defend a person's right to go forward with a time tested tradition (how about 2000 years?), or do we defend a person's right to end it all because they're offended? As long as we live in this great land and have the freedom to express ourselves and what we believe in, we will always offend someone.

If we try to make everything right for everyone, we won't have anything for anyone.

May you always have Christmas in your heart!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~
What Debbie Daniel started, let's not let it die here. Let's all do our part.
Let's do something ourselves, and then too, let's pass this on to every
Christian we know and if enough of us shout it out, maybe someone,
somewhere, will hear us and stop this insanity of Atheism from gripping our Country.
Merry Christmas to ALL


Come, let us worship the Lord,
for he is our God.

I really don't care what religion anyone is (I'm personally a Deist - try explain that one to a Fundie), but religion of ANY KIND has no business mixing with government. Period. Not here, not in the United States. Sometimes I lose hope because there are a bunch of ignorant people running around, taking e-mails like the one you posted as the Gospel.

by involving the moderates and the non-voters and the YOUNG and also people with families who currently are not fundies.

Fundies are hopeless.

So with your orange ribbon you'll be using it as a conversation starter.

I just seem to be increasingly surrounded by more and more fundies (or near-fundies) and I'm in a purple part of my state, not even a deep red part. The orange ribbon is a good idea.

and ask if they do religious things, "is that what Jesus would do?" And also, "would jesus starve the poor? Is jesus big business?"

He says "Happy Holidays" and sent out a holiday card. His reason: because he's sending to people of all faiths and wants to include everyone. True, you might barf citing the president as your "role model" on this issue, but that tells you how nuts these hard core fundies are, when even their darling in the WH won't go along with them on this one.

If you're in a more in depth conversation you can talk about how Iran, which is a full blown theocracy, has actually shown a decline in faith among its people. Apparently, having that shit banged over your head day in and day out is a major turn off. Another example is Europe, where the main churches are funded in part by the state, and perhaps as a result, attendance and religious faith is WAY down there. One can only conclude that the more the state and religion stay out of each other's way, the more religious faith will flourish.

Lastly, you could just say that both sides (yes, including the ACLU) have become a bit silly over this whole thing, and compared to the war, the deficit, health care, et al, you just don't rank this issue in, say, your top ten.

Some of the biggest progressive political movements in American history have come about because of an abiding belief that it is morally and religiously the right thing to do to: abolish slavery, give women the right to vote, deal with pverty and try to advance the cause of social justice.

Dr. Martin Luthor King, Jr. understood that you take your values with you into public service. They are, after all, what formed you and your response to the world.

The problem here is cynical manipulation of religion to serve the ends of greed. This is not Christianity, it a perversion of Christianity that is being foisted on innocent and gullible people. We need to fight this. And we can. We do, after all, OWN this issue. It belongs to the Democratic Party. It is our birthright and heritage. I will never let it go to the greedy bastards who want to use someone who said, "Sell all that you have and give it to the poor' to make me believe in tax cuts for the rich.

We have been through times like this before in American history. Only it was much, much worse. Much worse. African Americans were beaten and tortured to death for standing up for the right to vote. They composed prayers to help them through those times and songs that talked about love and the power of having religion teach us about how we should really act toward each other. Faith doesn't end at the ballot box, faith informs who you are as a person, it gets you through the really tough times an it makes you believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel that is worth enduring all the crap and insults and hard times. I endure this because I believe there is a better way. My faith tells me that.

Don't let the cynics on the other side tell you what real faith and the real belief in religion means. Just because they use religion cynically doesn't mean it is a bad thing. It means they are heartless, spirtually-dead and maniuplative people. This is why we fight them.

Them 'felt needs' are really piling up right now, don't ya think? It is really starting to seem to me that a lot of people are not buying the message of the cynics anymore. Can't you just feel it?

It's quite the opposite. It's getting worse. I guess I'm just not that good at arguing with folks in authority. (And it would have been an argument, not a discussion - these folks are all quite loud and don't really want to hear opinions other than their own.) These aren't bad people I'm talking about, they just don't understand the principles of democracy and they have bought the Republican message lock, stock and barrel.

If you want, wear your cross necklace (if that's what you believe in) BUT

MAKE a couple of t'shirts that quote Jesus's belief in feeding the poor, taking care of the sick, or keeping your faith in your heart.

Whatever...I'm sure you know my point.

Let your t'shirt do the talking while you do the walking.

We carry it in our heart. We don't push it onto others.

We all go through stages ranging from no belief to a deep belief. Sometimes we're athiest and sometimes we become active in churches. It's all ok. My own beliefs are a mixture of judiasm and Christianity with a good portion of budhism mixed in too. My faith is personal. I suppose I believe more in angels than one omnipotent God. I guess they're all mixed in...God, Angels, Jesus. BUT I do not believe one faith will go to Heaven and the rest Hell if they don't believe. I personally think the stories were suppose to be moral guidelines. I also believe the bible was written by HUMANS and those HUMANS had an agenda! Remember the old bible written by Elizabeth Cady Stanton? http://www.undelete.org/library/library0041.html

So I guess the best response to someone quoting the bible at you is, "I carry my belief in my heart" and then you can quote Jesus who said not to carry your belief on your sleeve.

(in discourse) was as a freshman in college when I became the only one in a philosophy class speaking out against organized religion (the people involved, anyway, who I believe were corrupting faith). I think the question was: Does God exist? I take issue with all the people who follow a particular religion and claim God as their own, and declare the rest of us sinners. I believe there is one God and religious doctrines are open to interpretation, which is what we see happening today---that cynical manipulation that TayTay mentioned. My faith is deeply personal.

My faith is also deeply personal so it makes it difficult when those around you are pushing their religion down your throat constantly. "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine pretty much sums up my thoughts and feelings about the subject. I'm afraid though that if Thomas Paine and the other Founding Fathers (many of who held the same beliefs Paine did) tried to form the nation today on the same principles they did in the 1700's, they wouldn't be very successful.

I think I've somehow managed to pull this thread off topic and I apologize for that. I didn't do a very good job of explaining my experiences, and how intertwined (in some areas of the country) politics and religion are.

to the extent that the manipulative injection of religion into politics is the cause of this mess.

to divide and conquer. BushCheneyRove used it masterfully last year.

And it's also something I personally believe Jesus would not approve of. (God, Allah, or the general Cosmos wouldn't either, I bet.)

as I see in all the responses the same thing, our faith is personal. I grew up in a very Irish Catholic family and went to Catholic school for 12 years, that alone brings out a wild side in any person.

But what I have become to believe is that there is a higher being and no matter what religion, it is personal. I was brought up not to push my religion on to anyone, and I have stuck to that. I had all 3 of my kids baptized Catholic, but none have received the sacraments, to me that is up to them to choose. But, I have talked much about the fundies out there especially those who go after the college age kids and warned them all not to be sucked in. We lived in California (San Diego)when they were young and you couldn't go anywhere without being approached by Krishna, Moonies etc. To me it was really sad to see those young minds being used not for IMO Godly purposes but for money.

I also got very involved in a situation in Navy housing and the bus that used to come pick up kids to go fill there minds with whatever. They would come into our neighborhood and offer the kids candy and give them literature to give their parents about their Bible school every Sunday. I was amazed how many let their kids go, how many I wondered just did it for a free babysitter on a Sunday morning after a late Saturday night, if they had any interest in what religion was being taught to their children then why didn't they get their lazy asses out of bed and go to church themselves. Well this activity drove me nuts, so I called the Navy Housing office and complained. To my surprise I got told that it was better than the kids out robbing something. I said WHAT? I said these kids are 5-8 years old, give me a break, and gave that person a piece of my mind and what I thought. Well within a 2 week period the bus quit coming and on top of that no solicitors were allowed in Navy housing.

OK enough rambling, and I agree with what everyone of you have said.

Ask questions here: http://www.democracycellproject.net

AND try to find the simplified version to explain.

to a customer the other day and he hit back with Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, and then went on to say I've said that for years and I'm not going to quit now. So little me goes, so you are into the War on Christmas thing? Then I said I think this Christmas stuff is silly and to many are making a big deal out of nothing. Then I told him I always say Happy Holidays to our customers because basically I don't know what they truly celebrate, so saying Happy Holidays is the best way to hit all the different types of celebration.

Well I didn't know what this guy was going to say to me next, but I must of made some sense to him as he said with a smile have a very Happy Holiday. Common sense wins out.

One other thing, I am so sick of having to be silent about being a Democrat in the Red part of certain cities in this country. What is up with that? My husband doesn't talk freely around his job either because his boss is a Repub. I think that is totally ridiculous that it has come to a point that in a Democracy we are not free to speak openly just because of our party affiliation. Why are we letting these employers and employees silence us? When will they start asking party affiliation on job applications ? Geez :mad:

PS. Island Blue you are not selfish, and it is sad that you are afraid that you may lose your job just because you have a different opinion. Remember the lady during the campaign that got fired for having a Kerry sticker on her car ? Luckily Kerry came to her rescue.

Kerry!

How did Kerry help the lady who was fired for her Kerry sticker? I was watching 60 Minutes a couple of months ago, and they mentioned that incident, and they said that there is absolutely NO recourse for that (per the ACLU). Companies CAN fire you for any reason -- the big example on the show was if you were a smoker.

And just so you guys know that I am consistent on this (and I'm talking PAINFULLY consistent), Steve Gardner of SBVT fame, former fellow Swift Boat crew member of Lt. Kerry, was laid off from his job in South Carolina. He claimed that he was because of what he did in the SBVT. Media Matters called the company, and they said that it had nothing to do with that, and that they laid off another person the same day. BUT, if this Gardner guy was doing a good job, he should NOT have been fired other than the fact that he's kind of, you know, a liar, but once again, if his political views didn't affect his work, I think it's wrong to fire somebody for that. It looks like he was NOT fired for political reasons, but I'm just saying, I would even defend him, if he was.

"We were going back to work from break, and my manager told me that Phil said to remove the sticker off my car or I was fired," she said. "I told him that Phil couldn't tell me who to vote for. He said, 'Go tell him.' "

She went to office, knocked on the door and entered on his orders.

"Phil and another man who works there were there," she said. "I asked him if he said to remove the sticker and he said, 'Yes, I did.' I told him he couldn't tell me who to vote for. When I told him that, he told me, 'I own this place.' I told him he still couldn't tell me who to vote for."

Gobbell said told her to "get out of here."

"I asked him if I was fired and he told me he was thinking about it," she said. "I said, 'Well, am I fired?' He hollered and said, 'Get out of here and shut the door.' "

She said her manager was standing in another room and she asked him if that meant for her to go back to work or go home. The manager told her to go back to work, but he came back a few minutes later and said, "I reckon you're fired. You could either work for him or John Kerry," Gobbell said.

"I took off my gloves and threw them in the garbage and left," Gobbell said.


She was from Alabama

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

he called her and offered her a paying job on the campaign equal to the salary she was earning at the job she lost. She did take the job, I have no idea what has happened with her since.

covered by the MSM. I read the newspaper every day and there was nothing about this. I only heard about her being fired on that 60 minutes program, and they didn't mention that Kerry had helped her out. Did this story get big play at the time? I've never heard it. Maybe it was more of a blog story. I didn't start looking at blogs until late October.

It did make MSM and it was all over the internet.

That was one of the best things about the jk blog. Hearing stories and watching people become involved participants instead of undecideds.

but the owner of a company is within his rights to tell you to remove a sticker from your car if it is parked on his property.

The company I worked for 5 years ago issued a directive on this - if someone else who worked there found a sticker on your car to be offensve, they could complain to management and management could legally order you to remove it... as long as it was parked on their property.

I questioned my union about this and they said the company was in the right...

partially right.

However, political speech has always, up until now, been protected by the constitution of the US and the supremes have always sided on the "If the rights of the person are not infringing or endangering the rights of others."

So, if the political stickers were a cause of fist fights, then they may say it's endangering their people. BUT until now, people political preferences have always been respected.

Besides, there was a woman who had the Kerry sign in her yard. NOT on her vehicle. IN her yard. And that person was fired from her gov't job.

Do you see? It's the First Ammendment that has been violated during the campaign and while you can argue that the private property has the authority, I suggest that if it was held up to a verdict by the supremes, the first ammendment would win.

many businesses do not own the property they are on they lease it, therefore it is not their property.

love your story. You crack me up! "So, you're into the War on Christmas thing?" PERFECT!

from recent personal experience, are to be very, VERY careful. I spoke out and well over a year later, chose to leave a job I loved because the "payback" directed my way was so over-the-top.

And, my husband's contract won't be renewed as a direct result of him giving a speech, a speech he was voted on, by his students, to give. He made one person very, very angry because he told the university graduates to not only think with their heads, but think with their hearts, and question authority along the way. (He also mentioned no WMD's found in Iraq and discrimination against homosexuals.) BTW, it was a beautiful speech. Beautiful.

Think Kerry will give him a job? ;-) (He's a very bright and engaging fellow!)

You don't mess with Rural Red, folks, unless you're willing to really and truly pay the price. In our case, we'll survive and we're actually quite grateful we'll be leaving here before the end of 2006.

There is a lot of fear here. While yes, there may be movement, in my opinion, there is also a last grasp... and this 'War on Christmas' feeds right into that.

We speak our truth to power and go the last mile, but there are real world responses for doing so.

because her husband worked for the Kerry campaign and the Democratic Party.

Purdue is in my hometown! Hub is a grad!

Hate to say it, but I'm not surprised. There is no more "freedom of speech" in the last bastions, the universities, right now in 2005. People are paying with their jobs and careers.

that is awful, and is so not right in this country where we have the so called best Democracy in the world. I say we have the best HYPOCRISY in the world.

I also believe this happened to my husband, and it happened after the election, his wrong doing having a Veteran for Kerry and a K/E sticker on his car. He started the job right before Christmas and 10 days later he was told he wasn't needed anymore, they said they had hired to many people. WTF? I looked the company up and they are big Bush and Republican supporters anyway he went out looking again, to no prevail and that is when we decided to remove the Kerry stickers from his car. He got a job 1 week later and still has it, although he does not mention politics, he found that out real quickly by the sick talk of the adoration of the crook in the WH in his office. He stays silent as we can not afford for him to lose his job. How sad this country has become.

Edited to add:

Has there EVER been another time in American history when this happened?

And it's sad and shocking that we have to go back there.

oh yeah, I believe it. I tell you kiddo, there are those who talk a good game and those out there in the trenches. You've always been out there in the trenches and so has your hub. It's a very muddy and very dirty place to be. But, you've held your head up and kept fighting, even if a bit lower key. We're going to do the same. Obviously, this place here wasn't ready for our (what I thought were fairly tame) efforts to change the flow.

With a little bit of luck, he'll end up at another university. Otherwise, hello, corporate world. (please, no!)

100% :thumbsup:

I posted this in GD-P:

RW rags advocating that Bush should keep information from Congress:

So did President Bush keep Congress in the dark about top secret counterterrorism operations? If he did, good for him!

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051217

This is the stuff that slips, but really shows the deep disdain Bush and all the wingnuts have for democracy.

U.S. plays 'I Spy'
Unauthorized eavesdropping in U.S. must be stopped


December 17, 2005

George W. Bush's decision to authorize intelligence agents to electronically eavesdrop on people in the United States without court-approved warrants is a stunning example of the president's apparent disdain for the rights of ordinary people, the Constitution and the rule of law.

According to the New York Times, starting in 2002 Bush turned the National Security Agency loose to monitor the international phone calls and e-mail of hundreds, perhaps thousands of people in this country. The president's green light marked a profound shift in the intelligence-gathering practices of the NSA, which has traditionally operated abroad. It was also almost certainly illegal and unconstitutional. Such snooping must be stopped.

The White House, tellingly, has not challenged the Times' account. Officials have instead attempted to justify the eavesdropping, citing the need to move quickly in the war on terror, while insisting that Bush would never order anything illegal.

That rings hollow coming from an administration under fire for abusing detainees and trying to legally redefine torture while insisting it would never torture anyone. It is an administration that placed itself above the law in claiming the power to indefinitely lock up American citizens whom it labeled enemy combatants, without criminal charges, legal representation or a day in court. It is an administration dogged by accusations of ghost detainees, secret prisons and delivering detainees for interrogation in countries known to use torture.

There are people in the world who would like nothing better than to do the United States harm. Washington should work overtime to uncover those plotters and their plots. But that does not justify the NSA's disturbingly un-American violation of the right to privacy.

It was just that kind of unchecked spying on Vietnam War protesters and civil rights activists in the 1970s that prompted Congress to establish the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which provides a legal, regulated avenue for such monitoring. Intelligence operatives, usually from the FBI, have only to show probable cause to believe that a person is an agent of a foreign power or an international terrorist group to get a warrant to monitor their communications.

The court is readily accessible, able to respond quickly and has granted thousands of warrants over the years. It has, in fact, almost never refused a request. There was no need for an end run around the court and no justification for skirting the law.

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vpspy174554062dec17,0,3042196.story?coll=ny-editorials-headlines

everywhere?

LEt's paint the towns ORANGE!

A Conversation With Sen. John Kerry
Moderated by Thomas Oliphant
John F. Kennedy Library and Foundation
Distinguished American Award
February 28, 2005


snip...

What brought me into politics, and many of you here, was the sense that we could make a difference, and we did. A 26 year old preacher in Birmingham, Alabama, who changed people’s thinking about relations between people in America and set us on the march towards civil rights. And then the war which drew on and on and out of which ultimately came a sense of obligation about how we were going to stop it and change the face of America. And I remember an old adage then which I wish I had talked about more in the course of the campaign, but we used to say "My country, right or wrong. When right, keep it right; when wrong, make it right." And that's what we set out to do. (applause) And, ultimately, we created what we are lacking today in American politics, which is accountability. I have colleagues who can vote with impunity against things that they know are in the common interests of the people, but not necessarily in the interest of fundraising or the power of the special interest groups. And they can vote against that common interest and go back home with impunity. As long as people can do that, my friends, we’re not going to change what's happening. What we need to do is go back to what we did when 20 million people came out in the streets of America when the river was lit on fire, called the Cayuhoga River, when we marched and worked and went street to street and house to house and did what we began to do again in this campaign but what you can’t do in four and a half, five months, what you have to do over the course of years.


http://www.jfklibrary.org/forum_kerry_distinguished_american.html


I will wear the one orange blouse I have, then I will this of something else.

the orange ribbons? This is something new to me. Is there a campaign underway, and if so, is there a Web site?

Okay, I know after the 2000 Selection, there was a protest movement (I participated for a while) and there was a lot of use of orange.

Then it was the Ukraine election last year I think, where they successfully protested the manipulations by Russia (of course the US was also manipulating to some extent, but no one seemed to care). I think orange was used there too.

I guess orange is becoming the symbol of voter rights or something?

But to me the color(s) we should be promoting are red, white, and blue.

Just my .02.

And I'm curious if anyone has a better history to tell of the significance of orange in this regard. I've been wondering since 2001.