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Is this saying what I think it's saying? (not Kerry-related)

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 02:15 PM
Original message
Is this saying what I think it's saying? (not Kerry-related)
Giving Bush authority to use his judgement and bypass Congress?

SENATORS SEND BIPARTISAN LETTER URGING THE PRESIDENT TO
Report Says 95% Of Earmarks For Fy06 Are Not Legally Binding
For Immediate Release
Thursday, Mar 09, 2006

Washington, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senators Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), Evan Bayh (D-Ind.), Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), John McCain (R-Ariz.), and Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) sent a letter to President George W. Bush, urging him to utilize his authority to stop wasteful earmarks written into committee reports and managers statements, but not in the text of legislation. A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report released this week concluded that over 95% of the Fiscal Year 2006 earmarks are not legally binding.

“The President was right in saying that earmarks need to be reduced, but now he needs to take an important step to make that happen,” Senator DeMint said. “If the President would tell his cabinet to ignore the thousands of earmarks that were not written into law, he could instantly solve most of the problem and make it much more difficult for Congress to micromanage our government with special interest projects.”

“The President talks a lot about wasteful spending in Washington, but he already has the power to do something about it,” Senator Bayh said. “Pork barrel spending is a threat to our economy, our security and our independence – it’s time the President used his authority to start cutting pork out of our budget. At the same time, I will continue working with my colleagues in the Senate to eliminate wasteful spending before it reaches the President’s desk.”

“The president does not need to wait on Congress to exercise line-item veto power,” said Dr. Coburn. “Under the law, wasteful earmarks that are only listed in conference reports can, and should, be ignored by executive branch agencies. If the president takes this stance, Congress will back down because they will be making an argument they will never win with the public. No rational voter will tolerate Congress holding up appropriations for vital services or national defense priorities so politicians can secure their earmarks and pet projects. I hope the president does not hesitate to use this power that is already at his disposal.”

“The President’s veto of earmarks in reports accompanying legislation would help put an end to one of the most disgraceful practices in Congress today,” said Senator McCain. “These earmarks do not have the force of law, but their sponsors have the power of the purse string – which, to my great dismay, seems to be just as strong. I applaud the President’s desire to help impose discipline on the Federal budget, and I trust that he will see fit to put the interests of the American taxpayer first by vetoing these harmful earmarks.”

”Right now we have a golden opportunity to tackle the earmarking problem which has overtaken the appropriations process,” said Senator Feingold. “The President should join us in this effort to restore sanity to the appropriations process and show the American people that we can and will be careful stewards of American taxpayer dollars.”

The letter reads in part:

If your Administration would reject even some of the most wasteful earmarks, it would ensure that scarce federal funds are spent on national priorities and it would make it substantially more difficult for Congress to load up annual spending bills with earmarks.

Unfortunately, too many of your agency heads believe they will face retaliation from Congress if they competitively award projects and do not follow committee report instructions. If these agencies are going to have the where-with-all to stand up and do what is right for taxpayers, and their agency’s missions, they need to know they speak for the President.


“House and Senate Appropriators have acknowledged the need for flexibility in how American tax dollars are spent,” concluded DeMint. “Now it’s time for the President to accept their offer and give his Administration the full flexibility to spend their budgets in an open, competitive way without fear of retaliation from Congress.”


http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=NewsCenter.ViewPressRelease&Content_id=1674



I know what earmarks are, and they can be handle with a line-item veto that keeps Congress in the equation.

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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Absolutely! This is a call by some senators to use LIV right now
on earmark.

Note one of the names in the list.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And to bypass Congress.
The goal is to rein in Bush.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dear Shrub
Stop us before we spend again.

Yeah, that'll work.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. This seems like a political ploy
Edited on Tue Mar-21-06 03:38 PM by karynnj
If Clinton's line item veto was unconstitutional because Congress essentialy had to over ride a veto (2/3 vote) to get the stuff back - this unilateral action has to be even more unconstitutional.

The only thing is there were things like the report that said that only 20% of the funds for port security were spent. So, is this like saying that just because pet project 1 was funded by Congress - the agency despensing the money could just say I'm not doing it.

This seems to really take almost all budget power from Congress. Does anyone understand this? I must be missing something because Feingold has a real reputation as a legal scholar. And people have been asking on DU "What is Kerry thinking?" when his approach at least sounds like it could be legal.

The thing I don't understand is whether these things are in the budget or not - Does the legislation reference these documents and just give an amount - I'm really confused.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I tend to think along the same lines as you on this one. I find it
interesting that it is a Republican initiative that Feingold has signed on to. The same arrangement could apply to Kerry's involvement in the LIV, except that he ran on this idea in 2004. I think people give Feingold to much credit for his legal abilities. His censure motion is questionable and there are many legal issues with Campaign Finance Reform.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. The LIV is different and is intended to counter
the "log rolling" than occurs in Congress. It is a genuine attempt to get rid of stuff that important people load the bills with. Some associated with corruption.

But all this talk of earmars takes me back to HS. A young government class teacher had us play a game to understand how Congress worked. The class was a small Congress - we had about 4 bills, and were told 2 were important to our state and which way our state wanted us to vote. We then traded promises before all the bills. We had time before each later bill to continue with our promises. He told us to make sure we kept track of what others promised - and that while we could lie, that would hurt us on later bills.

He was told never to do this again - it was too cynical.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well it says these are items NOT in the text of the legislation
Edited on Tue Mar-21-06 03:56 PM by MH1
so I don't understand how it is legal for them to spend the money anyway. I thought Congress was only voting on what was "in the legislation." Holy mother of gawd, the appropriations bills run into the thousands of pages, and no one has time to actually read them - and all along they've needed to read committee reports and "managers' reports" (?) too?

No wonder the deficit is out of control.

You aren't the only one confused karyn - I'm starting to feel that "the rules" just don't even matter. If anyone even knows what they are.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

:argh: :argh:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Of course, it will be deemed
that in this instance, it's okay to help Bush along, he's going to do it anyway. The LIV is bad, telling Bush to go ahead and use it to bypass Congress is necessary. Twisted ass logic is becoming the norm.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. ??? I don't get why you don't like this.
If I am interpreting it correctly, I'd be surprised if Kerry's not in agreement. I wouldn't put it past Feingold to have bypassed him on the initiative, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.

Of course it could very well be Feingold's way of saying "we don't really need LIV, just do this obvious thing", and of course that's where I'd part company with him.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Maybe I reading too much into it because it gives
Edited on Tue Mar-21-06 04:41 PM by ProSense
Bush control. (article is from 2003)

GOP axes Dems’ earmarks
Regula to punish opponents of Labor-HHS bill
By Hans Nichols

The House Republican leadership has endorsed an effort by Rep. Ralph Regula (R-Ohio), an appropriations cardinal, to punish Democrats en masse for their blanket opposition to the Labor, Health and Human Services and Education spending package.

Regula’s plan to redirect all potential Democratic earmarks to vulnerable Republicans would breathe new life into a principle that Republican leaders have long wanted their more accommodating appropriators to enforce: If Democrats vote against appropriations bills, they shouldn’t expect special projects earmarked for their districts.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) suggested that the potential punishment might be “criminal.”

“This could be — this could be — I don’t know, these kinds of threats, do they border on the criminal?” she said.

Rep. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), the Democratic Caucus chairman, called it “a clear declaration of war.”

But Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) commended the normally go-along, get-along Regula for his partisan fortitude in yesterday’s GOP conference meeting.

The $470 billion bill, currently before a House-Senate conference, has roughly $1 billion set aside for special earmarked projects in lawmakers’ districts, said Jim Dyer, staff director of the House Appropriations Committee.

Hastert’s words of encouragement were delivered at the Republican conference, said a GOP leadership aide. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) also is supportive of the strategy, said his spokesman, Stuart Roy.

“I pointed out to leadership that not one Democrat voted for this bill, in subcommittee, in committee and on the House floor,” Regula told The Hill.

more...

http://www.thehill.com/news/102203/earmarks.aspx


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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. After more thought could it be that they are in the budget
indirectly - but it's the appropriation process that actually funds them. (The budget being a more high level view.) It might be that they are asking Bush to have his deopartments ask for appropriations for everything except earmarks. (if so, it means the entire budget may have been done in bad faith - but it will cut out a lot of pork.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. That sounds like a reasonable explanation.
I need an Earmarks 101 course!

As far as the budget having been "done in bad faith", as far as I'm concerned that's the case anyway. It's such an effed up process, I'd welcome anything that makes it more accountable and rational - even if it means some people get somewhat more (than usual) unfairly treated at the initial implementation, as long as the end result is a better and fairer process.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I totally agree -
I am not even sure where to get the earmarks 101 or the budget process 101 and appropriation process 101 information. I remember that when they went for appropriations they had to waive the budget if something wasn't included in the budget.

I agree with you that the budget process is a mess. My concern on this is that by throwing it to the committees or administration there is no checks or balances - and the comment in the one article that all the Democratic stuff should be taken out because not 1 Democrat on the committee voted for the budget is scary. It runs the risk of turning the Senate into something resembling the House where the minority has even less voice.

But I really need to know what the facts really are - because all I know is that I really don't know what this means and what the alternatives are.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I don't trust * to use the LIV for anything but screwing us over n/t
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. But Rox, that what he does now!
So, it wouldn't really be any different. And if we come out for it, we get all those 'good government' chits to redeem at a ballot box to be named later.

Ahm, the Rethugs treat Dems like pets right now. This is not going to change. It does give the Dems ammunition whenever the Rethugs come out and say, "We are the Party of cutting spending and programs." The Dems can call bullshit on this and say, "Prove it, ya bunch of hairy liars, veto something. Go ahead, we dare you. Heck, we super double-dog dare you to do it."
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Here's what Bush said in his press conference on the liv
(the relevevant piece):

BUSH: I was particularly pleased that my opponent in the 2004 campaign, Senator Kerry, graciously came down and lent his support to a line-item veto and also made very constructive suggestions about how to get one out of the United States Congress. Let's see here. They've told me what to say.


Bush the said nothing and they went to a question.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Congress was already bypassed
urging him to utilize his authority to stop wasteful earmarks written into committee reports and managers statements, but not in the text of legislation. A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report released this week concluded that over 95% of the Fiscal Year 2006 earmarks are not legally binding.


I thought I heard of this recently and I thought Kerry was on board with it. Maybe I am confused. I thought what I heard of before was about earmarks added into the conference reports. Ay yai yai this is all too ridiculous. My head hurts.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Even if this is the case,
why the hell would anyone want Bush to make the final determination? Why not have him use the LIV and send it back to Congress. Then of course there is Karyn's point: where the hell did this power come from?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Well, it would be really nice if McCain had given a link or a real cite
to the CRS report he's referring to.

Based on what's in his press release, I gather that the "earmarks" are specified outside the legislation. Presumably the legislation specifies a $ amount that a department can spend, but the earmarks (in an accompanying report) say where the $ are to be spent. If my interpretation is correct, than departments could just ignore the earmark designations; and what this press release is doing is saying "come on Bush, tell your people to stop bending over for the political whims of Congress - they aren't legally binding". However to me, it makes no sense that they ever would have paid attention to earmarks designated outside the legislation anyway.

I don't see how documents that aren't legally binding could increase the total $ amount allocated to the department. And I don't see why any one would be adhering to earmarks specified outside the legislation now. So if they are doing that, I would agree that they should stop!

:shrug:

If anyone can find a link to the CRS report please post it!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. So is this a political ploy?
Grandstanding since they don't increase the allocated amount and will most likely be ignored? So why the letter? Why all the fuss about earmarks?
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. three of these guys (at least) are running for prez in 2008
Coburn voted against Bush's budget and is a darling of the far far far right - also mentioned as a possible candidate.

so - grandstanding for sure.

This is good - three Republicans with the knives out for Bush...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think this is stupid
I think the focus on earmarks is way over-hyped. From my memory, the reason earmarks became so popular is because departments were being given federal funds for specific programs, and then not implementing the programs. The earmark guarantees that special funding go where it's supposed to. I completely oppose letting the President or his Administration ignore earmarks.

This is completely different than a line-item that has to go back to Congress. That holds both the President and Congress accountable for pork, while not letting political leanings dictate which earmarks we have and which we don't.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. After re-reading this thread
I agree that the LIV is a much better approach. OTOH I still don't think that "earmarks" should carry any weight at all if they aren't a part of the formal legislation. If they're that important, put them in the actual bill. So I can't bring myself to disagree with Feingold's letter, based on my current understanding of it.

But, there is clearly a lot I don't know about this process, and I'm sure I'm not alone here. I think we can all agree that there is an effort by each of the 2008 candidates to positively differentiate himself or herself from the others, so there is good reason to believe that Feingold et al latched onto this because LIV was already taken (or they're afraid of it). However I did see that McCain has his own variation of an LIV bill, too.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. nice post
I really hope that either the media or the Senators will explain the process and the alternatives. I really hope the different positions aren't just partisan positioning, but concede that may be reality.
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