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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:40 AM
Original message
When small boys ask why...
Blog entry, my thoughts after today's speech, that I've been waiting for, most all my life I guess.
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/

John Kerry’s infamous line from 1971 is not the one that has hung with me all these years. Perhaps being infected by the optimism of the Kennedy Era, I’ve always been struck by Kerry’s hope of an ‘America turned’. “when small boys ask why, we will be able to say “Vietnam” and not mean a desert, not a filthy obscene memory but mean instead the place where America finally turned and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning.”

In the course of my life, I’ve probably had more conversations about Vietnam than any other event that touched the lives of the boomer generation. It lurks among us like a festering ghoul, silent for awhile, only to seep through the cracks of our consciousness, rearing its ugly head again. A simple cup of coffee somehow turns to a conversation about coming home and guilt and loss and PTSD. A new friend suffers from Agent Orange affects, another from a long-ago lost limb. And with the horrors of the Iraq war, late night calls of panic as vets and former protestors see a familiar scenario play out, military leaders ignored, corporate crony influences and political lies.

And then, as now, the role of the patriotic American is questioned. When I was a child, I saw Americans fighting, fighting on the streets of American cities and fighting in the jungles of Vietnam. I saw fighting to end racial discrimination and the war, I saw fighting in my own central California town to end the abuses of migrant workers. I saw soldiers peering out the backs of helicopters and wading through the swamps, I saw body bags and body counts. Small girls ask why too and I’ll never forget the pained look in my father’s eyes when he couldn’t answer that simple question.

The sad answer came in 1971, that the crime of Vietnam was that it sent men to kill and maim for “the biggest nothing in history” and that it was “part and parcel of everything that we are trying as human beings to communicate to people in this country, the question of racism…. the use of weapons, the hypocrisy in our taking umbrage in the Geneva Conventions and using that as justification for a continuation of this war, when we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions..” The true danger of our time was not peasants in a far off land, but ourselves and our indifferent complacency.

And so we have come full circle. We again have troops engulfed in an illegal war that has dissolved into a chaotic morass where our brave troops cannot define friend from foe. Again we have dissenters scorned and can hear the echoes of Spiro Agnew when he labeled them “criminal misfits of society”. Again we have migrant workers in the streets and African Americans abandoned just as surely as they were abandoned to sharecropper shacks so many years ago. And once again, we have John Kerry, rising to state the most obvious truth, “it is wrong to think fighting for your country overseas and fighting for your country’s ideals at home are contradictory or even separate duties. They are, in fact, two sides of the very same patriotic coin.”

I wish with all my heart John Kerry had said those words in 2004. It doesn’t matter whether it would have helped or hurt his Presidential campaign. What matters is that they need to be said, as many times as is necessary for Vietnam protester and Vietnam Vet, and Iraq war protester and Iraq war vet, to be seen as equal defenders of our democracy.

Because if America is to turn, the dissenter and war hero must become indistinguishable. They will both recognize “that patriotism does not belong to those who defend a President’s position—it belongs to those who defend their country. Patriotism is not love of power; it is love of country.”

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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent post n/t
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 01:19 AM by politicasista
edit
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It has nothing to do with any of that
It has to do with healing the chasm of Vietnam and the new chasm of Iraq, creating a new respect for differing opinions so that we can better avoid these catastrophes in the first place.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Now I understand
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 01:23 AM by politicasista
I wasn't born during the Vietnam era, but every story like yours is powerful and moving. Thanks. :patriot:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. That last paragraph got me! nt
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I went back and re-read it and it's deep
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 01:37 AM by politicasista
Especially the fifth paragraph.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. So much in that speech
There was so much of it I really loved, I especially liked the line to "Live The Truth". I love that so much more than "speak truth to power" even. But in the end, this is what has been in my heart for such a long long time. I really have listened to so many vets over the years, some with stories of being mistreated, others with the guilt, others still defending the war, others just confused. They all hold pieces of truth, but cannot see the truth in each other's pieces in order to put together the whole. Seems to me. It is just sad.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. If you ever feel comfortable about it, please share. Your
love for our country and Sen. Kerry is evident, and I thank you for that! And here's a hug! :hug:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks
And thanks for the previous compliment too. You know, until I started writing this, it really didn't occur to me how many of these stories I actually had listened to. Because guys my exact age generally didn't go to Vietnam, it was guys 5-10 years older than me. It really happens, just like I said. I remember back in 87 or so, just having a cup of coffee with a guy, just a friend, I was married and all. And he said something about Vietnam, that led to him talking about the guilt, and then I questioned a bit because I never understood it, and he poured out a little more. And then you go on and might not mention it ever again. I wrote a blog piece, last year I think, about a different guy, and another cup of coffee, and his take on the election and the war, he's one that we get sporadic freak-out calls from. Just agonizes over this war, and he voted for Bush, TWICE. He's our friend, what cha gona do. I really didn't realize how many friends over the years have been just like that. How many little pieces of sadness I have that are connected to Vietnam. I know others my age have to have it too, so it sure is a bafflement how we ended up here again.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great words to end a great day
Lovely post... you should send it to him!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks
I will. I had mentioned to April that I hoped he was going to close that loop between Vietnam and Iraq, past dissent and present; she said I'd be happy. lol. WOW, was she ever right!! Maybe I'll send it when I tell her how right she was.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That wil make her happy too!
I'm off to bed... If it's okay with you, I'd like to guest post it and link back to LUTD tomorrow. Let me know.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Thanks
That would be very nice!
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. That was unbelievably beautiful
Thank you so much for posting. I agree with you about the "... soldiers like us help in the turning" quote. Very powerful. Watching "Going Up River" you can really see the pain and emotion on his face when he said that.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. i agree, we never fully dealt with it the first time
the issues important during the Vietnam War did not end with the war. it wasn't a victory for those who opposed it. for some reason even though people can talk of the disaster of the war , those who spoke out against it are still seen as lacking patriotism.

those who speak out against what they view as failed policy ARE defending their country. they are patriots.


it's funny how people can so easily complain about washington when it comes to things like taxes, yet when it comes to war, they feel the need to not question and fully support those they view as incompetent when it comes to health care, education etc.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. War lies are harder
Maybe that's it. It is hard to believe a President would truly lie us into a war, even Bush, and especially after Vietnam.

But even so, I'd actually hate to see any war started without a peep of opposition, even Afghanistan which I supported. Somebody ought to be out there advocating peace at all times.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent! Than you! n/t
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. I remember those days, too...
...here are my thoughts about the speech:


>>>>>

ABOUT THE OP-ED:

As a Kerrycrat old enough to remember his testimony in 1971, I am convinced more than EVER that this is the man who can 'heal the old wounds' and bring this country back together. That is a wonderful Op-Ed! I don't think our country ever fully healed from that Vietnam split between fathers and sons of my generation. Having a President Kerry speak out about this has the power to lance the wound and clear the air... FULLY...not just move past it like we did. If so, that's about the only good thing to come from this illegal war in Iraq.
>>>>

AFTER READING THE SPEECH:

What John Kerry did in 1971, as a very young man, embodied our country's highest values...but he was not viewed that way (by many) at the time. Now, as a more mature, experienced leader, Iraq seems to have pushed him to come to terms with his own legacy. It's wonderful to see! Today's speech is both the culmination of a life CREATED by 1971 and the beginning of John Kerry's future legacy. He is risking everything to speak out and speak the truth. I think he WILL be President.

>>>>>>>

AFTER WATCHING ON C-SPAN:

I've just watched the speech on C-Span and then the interview on This Week. My thoughts are still a little 'raw' as well.

I LOVED the speech. These are the words the country needs to hear....and I think...the words John Kerry has needed to say FOR A VERY LONG TIME. It was good to see him (before he actually spoke) rewarded by applause for what he did in 1971. Has that ever happened before publically? I've never seen it. It was wonderful and long deserved.

During the speech, I found myself clapping and cheering {keep in mind that I got up at 6:30 a.m. to watch, and this is going on at 7:00 or so on a SUNDAY morning. } I switched right over to ABC for the Stephanopolous interview immediately after...missed the very beginning...but what I saw was EXCELLENT. He stayed very 'on message' in defending the generals and handled the CIA arrest story well. I thought he seemed a little annoyed at the way George S. asked some of the questions toward the end of the interview. But he did VERY well and ended with a great SMILE !

My impulse when it was over was that I felt compelled to do something to show support for John Kerry and demonstrate my own patriotism for doing what JK said to do 'at home'..."My country, right or wrong...When right, keep it right...When wrong...MAKE IT RIGHT." This is where my activism (small as it is) is coming from. Sooooo.... I dug out all my decorative American Flags (that I usually display on patriotic holidays) and put them out in both my front yard and back yard! Maybe my neighbors will notice and ask why...and I'll tell them to watch C-Span at 2:00 p.m.

What a wonderful day ! And I think this is the beginning of another big push in the next few days to meet the May 15th deadline for Iraq and get the troops home.

>>>>>>
sandnsea,

There are a lot of us out here who feel as you do. Until this administration, I thought our country had learned the lessons Vietnam taught us. It's been horrible to find out that we did not. After 2004, my answer to what Democrats need to do is EDUCATE, not change our values...our values are good and strong. We can't let those lessons be lost...they are too important for our country.

I'm SO glad John Kerry is speaking out. He is the hope for our country. We needed to hear these words as much as JK needed to say them. I think he knows when people say our country is 'off track' ( 70%+) it's about more than gas prices. :) This is why I'm such a strong supporter of his Presidency...there is NO ONE ELSE who can carry this message as well. He has come full circle...and, thank God, he is stepping up.:patriot:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Agree
You know, in some way, maybe the path to Iraq was laid when we didn't heal Vietnam. That somehow people are still trying to redeem "the loss" or even worse, they really do think they betrayed the troops. I know not all, but I know there are a lot of views about Vietnam. But I had at least thought we'd come to accept the lies of the Gulf of Tonkin which is why it astonishes me that so many can't believe this administration wouldn't lie.

Anyway, I'm glad he's speaking out now because I'm not sure we'll ever fully regain our moral compass if we don't heal those wounds.

And, yes, EDUCATE. 2004 was a perfect opportunity to remind people of the progress made in the last century, primarily by Democrats. I also thought it would have been a good idea for Massachusetts to reclaim its Patriot status. Maybe if we can get a Dem governor in there, there will be support to do that next time.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. "maybe the path to Iraq was laid...
when we did't heal Vietnam." Wow...that's profound. :) And I think it's true...probably not the only path...but one, for sure. My hope now comes from SO MANY powerful Democratic leaders coming forward. Each of us, alone, has no power. But in numbers, and with visible leaders, this can be turned around. But like Kerry said about Vietnam...if he has one regret, it is that the anti-war movement that ended that war took SO LONG after they started to actually bring the troops home. So many lives were lost. This movement, too, moves too slow to suit me. And lives are being lost again.:patriot:
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