RevCheesehead

I made it here.

I don't have very long for a post right now, but I will be back!

I just wanted to stop in and say Hello.

Glad you found us! :hi:

We're all here to help answer questions, and to support one another. I think you'll come to love these people here - some of the finest people I've ever met on-line!

:hi: Tell us something about yourself, please?

Blessings,
elshiva

I live in LA (Lower Alabama). It's a beautiful place.

I'm 36 and originally from central AL. I consider myself very liberal in my political and social beliefs. I would be considered radical in AL. Although I take that as a compliment coming from most people that use that term to describe me.

I also consider myself a Christian and have a very strong personal faith. Unfortunately, I have been driven away from the church and organized religion in general because I can't seem to find a church here in the Deep South that I can feel comfortable attending. I have tried several different denominations (I even went to a Baptist church when I was younger).

I met RevCheesehead out in the general discussion and asked her a couple of questions about the UMC because I had read the Book of Disciplines (or all of it that was available online)and was shocked that for the most part (except for the homosexuality issue) that it was what I would consider...well, pretty progressive. Even though I didn't agree with the part on homosexuality, I didn't find it overly harsh. (The section on abortion was interesting as well.) I also realize that I will never probably find any place I will agree with 100%, all of the time. The funny thing is that as a young adult, I was baptised (actually sprinkled) in a UMC and was and (unless they dumped me) still am a member.

I actually went to a UMC here where I live about a dozen or so times last year and thought I was actually going to like it, but then the last couple of sermons really bothered me. I work as a mitigation specialist to try to keep or get people off of death row (not out of prison - although I think I have some clients who are innocent)and one of the sermons/programs they had was a US Attorney speaking about what he did. I can't remember the entire thing but I was really upset. One comment I remember he made was how he was good at his job and how he loved putting people in prison. I found that disturbing. Well, apparently it was "personal responsibility" (a popular buzz term that I think is over used and too black and white) month or something because the next sermon really got under my skin as well. The Pastor had a sermon on "personal responsibility." He spoke of David and how when he was confronted about sending the husband to the front lines of a war where he was killed because he wanted his wife, King David took responsibility and how great a man of God he was. I have no problem with this part, but then he talks about how nobody today wants to take responsibility for their actions and as an example he used a clip of Bill Clinton in an interview on Larry King. Clinton's book had just come out and they were discussing the Lewinsky affair. Larry King asked Clinton why he had the affair and his answer was "Because I could." He then said how wrong he was and the pain he had caused so many people. Of course, Larry King couldn't let that go as the answer so he kept asking more questions and got Clinton to talk about how the republicans had gone after him, etc. and so supposedly Clinton was not taking responsibility. Again, I was really disgusted. I left the service as soon as it was over and never went back again.

(This was also the Pastor that was around my sister while she was dying from cancer last year and he did some things that I was very upset over, but that is a whole other personal story I won't get into here and after my desertion from the church.)

As someone who does mitigation work, the whole "personal responsibility" thing gets under my skin. Yes, I do believe you have to be responsible for your actions, but I always notice that it comes form people who have really never had to worry or overcome that much. And when they are faced with their time to take "personal responsibility" it seems to no longer apply. Dubya Bush comes to mind as a really good example. I also hear it used often when people want to send my clients to death row. Some comments like, if you really try you can overcome anything. Hmmm...I guess I should explain that to my 18-year-old client who was born with fetal alcohol syndrome, addicted to crack cocaine who never had a father and whose mother was never at home. He was raised by his 5 older siblings in a shack on a dirt road with no plumbing, the family used a bucket for a toilet. There was never any food in the house so as a toddler, he drank and ate the urine and feces of his siblings out of the bucket in order to survive (survival of the fittest, the older ones got the little bit of food that came in the house which was stolen by his older brother who is in jail now also). His IQ is slightly above mental retardation and he fails any adaptive skills test. I could go on, but I'm sure that gets the point across. Don't get me wrong, what he did was horrible and he has to face jail time, but if you think without extreme intervention (which never happened because nobody cared)this guy had a chance in the world, you are sadly mistaken. I see it over and over again. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Well, my faith plays a large role in the work that I do. Without my faith, I'm not sure I would be able to do what I do. I desperately want to find a church community that I can feel comfortable with. My husband and I are adopting a child from Guatemala (unfortunately, this will probably end my career because I can't do the traveling that is required or the long hours, but I know what I am doing is the right thing to do)and I would really like to be involved with a congregation not only for myself, but for my child. I am thinking about checking out a couple of other UMCs in my area. I may see if I can go in and speak directly with the Pastor (with the Book of Disciplines in hand) and see what he (the 2 I have in mind both have male pastors)says about following the Book of Disciplines. I'm just afraid with the info coming from the national UMC that the Deep South congregations may be more conservative.

Any suggestions from anybody are gladly welcome. Is anyone else from the Deep South?

That's a lot to process, and I'll mull this over for several days.

Yes, the Southern UMC is conservative, but there are bright spots on occasion. One of those is the new bishop of the Northern Alabama conference (Birmingham): Will Willimon. Will is a friend of mine, who was the Dean of Duke Chapel (that just means pastor in charge). He is radical, liberal, in-your-face, and prophetic. I suspect that he is already challenging the church to be more than it can be.

I don't know if you'd get very far in confronting the pastor about the Discipline, or the Social Principles, for that matter. (They're on-line, check out: http://www.umc.org and link on Social Principles)

Our church is officially against the death penalty, and has a lot to say about social justice, prison reform, etc... In other words, we are more liberal than your pastor realizes! (and you can tell him I said so! :) )

Chances are he already has his mind made up. But that doesn't mean you can't ask probing questions! And maybe he can refer you to a local church or pastor which is more liberal than what you have going on there. (many pastors are just as glad to "get rid of" people who think differently. I know that sounds awful, but it's true. Maybe just begin with "I know I'm much more liberal than you appear to be. Can you recommend a UMC or other church which would be more open to my kind of thinking?" That would maybe get HIM thinking about what he's preaching, too. :evilgrin:

Sorry.

Do you think I might be able to call or e-mail Will Willimon and ask about some of the UMC congregations in my area?

Thanks for your advice!

:yourock:

There are a couple old threads in this group that talk about finding a compatible church:

What liberal churches are out there?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=291x539

Thinking about going back to church
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=291x504

That latter thread has one post by Rev Cheesehead with useful pointers about how to do a quick recon on a congregation. (That's not the title of the post but it's a short thread; you'll find the post easily).

You might also want to check out the Seekers on Unique Paths group. It's not specifically a Christian group but Christians are welcome there. It leans more toward Religious Science, Unity, Unitarian, and so on.

I'll check out those threads.

I like a lot of what you said -- and I'm going through a lot of what you've been going through. I'm looking for a more liberal church as well. You should try UCC. I've been going there, and they're much more liberal than those overly evangelical churches.

By the way, I really like this statement: "I always notice that it comes form people who have really never had to worry or overcome that much."

That's so true. I think a lot of people don't realize how much our experiences shape our personality.