"Americans can't build a decent car" - discuss.....

:evilgrin:

OK, OK, this really isn't intended to be flamebait!

We have a TV program over here on the BBC called Top Gear. It is basically a petrolhead type show, which tends to focus on the more extreme sports cars, although it does review standard cars and 4x4s too.

Basically, whenever they review any sort of American car (I've seen them do the new Cadillac + a couple of sports cars + some retro stuff like a Dodge Charger) they make the following observations:

- American cars are TERRIBLE at going around corners
- American cars have TERRIBLE suspension (one of the latest model sports cars still has lever spring suspension.....as in, "horse and cart" era technology) and tend to bounce and wallow
- American cars are very badly built (although how they can be worse than Fiats I don't know...)
- "Luxury" to an American car builder means "putting lots of shiny plastic" inside it
- European car manufacturers get at least one third more power out of an engine than American manufacturers do

Now, having said all of this, the main presenter (Jeremy Clarkson) has bought one of the new Ford GT40s, and another presenter (Richard Hammond) bought an old Dodge Charger (in lime green). So they can't hate American cars that much....

Basically, they say that with American sports cars the heart rules the head - they have a great feel to them and lots of muscle, but in engineering terms they are slower, more badly built and with worse brakes and suspension than they should be.

I think you could easily say the same about Harleys (which I love) - crap brakes, slow, noisy.....but there's just something about them!

Mind you, I'd have a Buell over a Harley any day.......but then I'd possible go for a Ducati over a Buell....

Opinions please.....and don't hate me, I'm only the messenger!

Car shows here focus on american cars and put down most others (not all shows) but they do have a bias.

When buying my new truck I drove a lot of cars, the new cobalt ss (chevy) drove like a dream and the suspension felt like you were glued to the road. As a matter of fact I know about five guys in the U.K. that ordered these cars. All have to have some sort of special head light treatment before they can drive them though??

I mean, they do tend to give credit where it's due....the GT40 being a prime example. They also do mention the good aspects of any car. Moreover, they'll happily slag off a car from one of their favourite manufacturers if it turns out to be rubbish.

They really like the Holden Monaro (Australian 6 litre muscle car which is being sold in America as an American sports car, the Pontiac GTO: http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__84014/ArticleID__4636/DesktopDefault.aspx).

I suppose that you could argue that they're basically saying "US cars don't work very well in the UK" but it's more than that.

For example, there's not much excuse for building such inefficient engines compared to European cars.

I'm not saying that there are NO good American cars (heaven knows that there are virtually no British manufacturers at all any more), but overall, the impression I get is that they're not hugely reliable and not very well refined.

In essence a lot of what they has the ring of truth. However, the vehicles here tend largely to be a function of our highway system. We tend to have plenty of long stretches of highway with very gentle curves. There are exceptions to this of course, but by and large, we're a straight road society. So, it only stands to reason that our cars would be built for straight line power with not as much regard for handling.

I think the quality of American cars has increased dramatically in recent years, although fit and finish still leaves a bit to be desired in many cases.

The other complaints I think have some validity, but they're subjective. Just becuase it's plastic doesn't mean it's crap necessarily. It can still look and feel nice.

As for me, I've now owned a car with 4-wheel independent suspension for several years, and I don't want to go back to a car that hasn't got it. I like the cornering on rails feeling.

..but these performance points don't seem to me to be a big deal.

While I almost never drive "American" cars anymore--my new hybrids are completely Japanese, I think--I'm not a racer. I'm not likely to need to whip around a corner with any particular elegance, so these matters are beyond me.

I'm just after reliability and economy, and American cars (in my limited experience and research) don't cut it. Toyotas and Hondas, expecially, don't seem to require so many expensive repairs. The Maxima we just traded in on a hybrid Accord was something of a crybaby.

They will steal the Union pension money then they will make a Sh*t-load of money.. and thumb their noses at the retired workers.. and brag at their fancy parties about all the dumbies they ripped off.. and all will laugh and have another line of coke..

I tend to agree that US-designed cars fare poorly, actually. I've owned Oldsmobiles and Dodges, but my last four cars have been either Mazdas or Volvos, and for good reasons: ride and build quality.


on edit: PS, yes that is the Stig as my avatar :-)

Both Volvo and Mazda are fine products of the Ford Motor Company. And many of the new Fords, Mercurys and Lincolns share platforms with Volvo and/or Mazda products, not to mention another FoMoCo brand, Jaguar.

I buy used; the vehicles I've had were made before the Ford intervention. Though I will admit to a sentimental weakness for the new Mustang :-)

For starters, if you want to discuss power/efficiency/reliability/cost, I will put GM Powertrain (engines/transmissions) up against any in the world right now.

and i remember Clarkson bitching about the leaf-spring suspension on the C6 corvette---He neglected to mention that 1: The highly complex suspension is leaf spring in name only, and has NOTHING to do with the conventional horse/cart, and 2: The actual track time the car ran...I downloaded the episode last year, and i remember it was like 4th from the top...

Not to mention, the Pratt-Miller Corvette Team again won their class at the 24 hours of Le Mans, trouncing the likes of Ferrari and Aston Martin

The 97s and up are truly modern marvels and the newest Z06 models have performance to match any exotic supercar that cost twice as much.

Yes, the Cobra is awesome, but how many were made? It was a specialty car, the Corvette isn't, and it having leaf-springs is embarrasing.

An AC Ace (British chassis) with a big engine in it.

Mr. Shelby did a nice job with it, but it's an international hybrid.

to put their big powerful Ford engine into.

I won't argue - those 60's-80's muscle cars sucked at anything but a straight line.

Try a Cadillac CTS - it's a very well-handling sports sedan.

The GM-built Saab 9-3SS handles and gets 210 hp out of the 2.0L GM ecotec engine. 105 hp/L is pretty good! It out-slalomed the last BMW 300 series cars in tests too.

I pick up their magazines in waiting rooms and cannot find anything worth reading inside the covers. The articles I find on the internet are similarly lacking.

I was reading about the Honda CRV and the writer was evaluating it like it was supposed to be a high performance off road vehicle like a Jeep Liberty--well it isn't!! I just want a car with more ground clearance for unpaved roads.

They evaluate minivans like they are going to take them to their limits down twisty canyon roads on the California coast. Well, I drive cautiously and enjoy the scenery, you dopes!

Car&Driver&Road&Track, whatever, had a decades-long comprehensive Exxon-style propaganda campaign denying the "energy crisis". Anybody driven by a gas pump and read the price lately? It's high now!

You can tell I am getting a little worked up.

It sounds like those show-boys are still living in the cliches of the 1970s when US cars had that "jello" ride and the only high performance driving the powerful ones could do was the 1/4 mile drag race because they cornered way badly.

:rant:

That man sure knows how to rant. I love a good rant, even when I don't agree with it.

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Why? They haven't had to. Many people will buy USA, despite the availability of better built, more reliable, more efficient, better performing foreign offerings.

There are exceptions, for example: The recent Corvette rocks.

But all too often, American car manufacturers rest on their laurels, and American car buyers have allowed them to do so.

Things weren't so bad in the '60s. American cars had a certain focus, more on power and value for the dollar, less on high build quality or handling. Since they were priced lower than foreign makes, that worked fine.

But, around the early '70s, things changed. Japanese manufacturers brought in low dollar, high quality and efficient products, cutting out Detroits low dollar advantage. Meanwhile, many European makes continued offering high quality and performance, at a price, that American manufacturers felt they couldn't approach. By the '80s, American car manufacturers were wholly dependant on the crutch of "Built in America." They paid for their reliance on that crutch with their current stigma of low quality/low value.

I want to be proud of American products. But I demand that those products be deserving of my pride. Products like the Corvette are too few and far between.

All my .02

You could not buy a Datsun B210 in Japan for $2700, but you could do that here!

As far as I'm concerned, with the global economy what it is, there is really no such thing as an American/European/Japanese car anymore. All of these cars are made with parts from all over the world and assembled in different countries. I no longer buy "American" cars anymore (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Pontiac, you know, those cars made in Mexico) because of the lack of attention these companies have given to fuel efficiency. But to say Americans can't build a decent car is rubbish. Many great cars have come out of the U.S.A. Some of them go by the name of Honda.