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Am I way off base? Isn't resistance of all gender roles a feminist issue?

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 02:27 PM
Original message
Am I way off base? Isn't resistance of all gender roles a feminist issue?
I was reading a thread about stay-at-home-dads getting sexist comments aimed in their direction by ignorant/rude/thoughtless people... and it occurred to me that ending the expectation that women *must* be the more-involved parent not only frees women from being pigeonholed in that role, but frees men from being excluded from it as well.

Does this seem logical to anyone else? I hope I'm making myself clear. What I mean is... by refusing to accept the traditional role that some people seem to believe only women should fill... feminists are necessarily demanding that men not be barred from accepting those roles.

And of course this isn't limited simply to the issue of stay-at-home parents either... by the same token, it seems to me that my refusal to be dictated to about what I must look like also means that I refuse to accept that men be dictated to about what they must look like (why isn't it acceptable for them to wear women's clothes?)... my refusal to be told that I must accept that men 'naturally' think of women as objects first and people second means I refuse to accept that all men agree with this or are deluding themselves/trying to score brownie points with women present when they protest the idea.

I hope I'm making myself clear. The longer I have been on this board, the less confident I feel about my communication skills.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. You are being clear, and making perfect sense as far as I can see.
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. Non-conformity with gender roles, whether by men or women, is a feminist issue. Flexibility of gender roles in any way, or even totally dismissing and throwing away gender roles is all part of the Feminist evolution. It wouldn't be possible without feminism.

Refusing to accept stereotypes about men is part of feminism just like refusing to accept stereotypes about women.

The whole point is that the stereotypes don't work, and the strict gender roles don't work.

Feminism starts by breaking down the stereotypes of women, and women's gender roles, but that is because this is where the most bloody damage has been done. This is where the work is most urgent. But the discussion doesn't stay where it starts. It doesn't stay where it is most intense. The whole range of gender stereotypes and gender roles will be addressed.

Would anyone really doubt that Feminism has helped openly Gay men? Or men who want to have direct roles raising and nurturing their children? Or stay-at-home "house husbands?" Etc.

Relaxing male gender roles, and attacking the use of male stereotypes has benefited a lot of men. I know I'm one of them.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're right
(And perfectly clear, I worry about myself as well lately)

I think part of the problem is an ignorance between the difference of biological differences and society imposed gender roles. I was just reading a thread where a poster who identified herself as female seemed to think that men are biologically driven to 'spread their seed' as it were, in as many women as possible, where women, with more to lose, look for the 'provider'. Superior seed, I guess. (then there was the 'do you watch porn with your spouse' thread in the lounge, a very interesting thread, where a couple of people decided that if a man claimed he didn't like porn, he was lying)

From an evolutionary standpoint, this is most likely both true and false. One of the responses to that type of thinking is our common neighbor (say, Bonobos or Chimpanzees)society groups often have sexual hierarchies, and not all the guys get the girls by any means.

AND, If it were true, women who proven child bearing skills as well as the marks of childbirth on their bodies would be more desirable--there are a dozen ways to pull that kind of thinking apart and point out what are basically logical fallacy's.

Men are perfectly capable parents. My husband for instance was raising his two tiny little girls alone when I met him. He's become disabled by Multiple Sclerosis, so I'm the primary 'bread winner', he does what he can to maintain the household, so technically, I guess that makes him a 'househusband' Isn't there such a huge difference when we use those terms? Housewife, househusband? And there shouldn't be. When people ask what 'does your husband do' and I have to answer he's disabled with MS, I follow that up with "he takes care of me" (And he does)
Two of my children have been in the military. My son is in Iraq right now, my daughter served in Afghanistan before she got out. Both are 'good soldiers', although my guess is my daughter was a better one. My daughter had a tougher time with interpersonal relationships, promotions, sexual harassment, everything you'd expect from a female in the military because of institutionalized gender roles in the military, as well as the head start those roles get in society. And she's a tough, incredible woman. (Who just happens to be carrying another grandchild for me right now, joy, joy joy!!!!!!)

And Thomcat is right. I actually think sometimes that a sort of litmus test of gender roles can be done looking at all the wonderful Gay couples who are parents. The child's needs are met independent of gender. Except Gays are simply human beings and shouldn't have to be anybodies 'test'.

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. You are certainly correct.
As we know, non-conformity is difficult for most, Sister.
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