so. It happened to me, my old roommate's mom, and now my current roommate

Yup. Rape. And like me, it's taken my roommate over a year to really come to terms with it and accept it as such. It just makes me so furious and sad, because I know what she has coming in the next few years, the pure hell she'll have to go through (and has been going through even though she didn't previously call it rape) and it'll probably be even worse for her because she still has to see the guy, whereas I've never had to worry about that because the guy who fucked me up lives overseas. And this doesn't even include a lot of other friends I know who've been assaulted in other ways, including:

--My friend who was nearly gang-raped by four guys until the fifth guy in the room started pulling them off of her (see? men are the ones who can stop rape).

--My friend who got assaulted by her friend's boyfriend. They were in a unisex bathroom, and he came out of the stall with his dick out, grabbed her, and would've done who knows what if he hadn't realized that one of her guy friends was in the stall next to him. (Not coincidentally, I also once spent the night at his girlfriend's place -- I'm friends with her roommates -- and woke up to find him stroking my neck.)

--My old manager at work who was harassed by her manager before I started working there. She gave me tons of confidence and encouragement, and is the reason I'm a manager at my job today. And the prick who harassed her has moved on to a better job. :grr:

Honestly, I don't know what I'm looking for with this thread. Support, rage, resources for my roommate, whatever. It just makes me so angry that men (and some women) here and in the real world cast aside our concerns as petty nonsense, things we should get over, things we're overreacting to, and make our trauma worse by defending t-shirts that promote violence and rape and making jokes about rape, and telling us to shut up about it because they obviously know more about the issue than we do. (Although hell, since they're participating in it, maybe they have more expertise than we give them credit for.) Do they not realize that this shit has REAL consequences for us, that a lot of us have received more violence than love from men, and that it HURTS?!? Don't they realize that we speak out because we don't want our daughters to have nightmares, insomnia, that we don't want them to self-injure or kill themselves, that we don't want their self-worth to sink so low that they stay in abusive relationships where they or their children could end up dead? Because we don't want them to go through what we went through? Is that honestly such a difficult thing to grasp? And is it so difficult to understand that it happens to TONS of women? I mean, the incidents I've listed aren't all the ones I know of, and I'm sure there are ones I don't know of. I have another friend who gets extremely upset at any metaphoric use of the word "rape," and who has a lot of anger toward men and the world in general, and who I'm guessing has probably been raped. But she's not an open person at all, so I might never know. It's a fucking epidemic, but nobody's rushing to stop it. In fact, most people are rushing to propogate the attitudes that make this sort of shit acceptable. They're rushing to send women to their doom, all because they don't want to bear a little bit of temporary discomfort while they get used to adjusting their behavior to not support a rape culture.

I'm just so pissed off right now, and I also just realized earlier this week that I've been extremely unhappy for three years and should probably try to get some medication before my insurance runs out in a month (since counseling was a major failure with me). I took an online quiz today that's put out by the National Mental Health Association, and wasn't really surprised that it said I have "moderately severe depression" or something similar. Well, duh. When a good day is one where you don't think about killing yourself... And this is what my roommate has to look forward to. This is what millions of other women like us have to look forward to. But to most people, like the men in the lounge, that's not important; What is important is that they can objectify and demean women in as many ways possible (because that's clearly the intent of the First Amendment, dontchaknow) and that they can ostracize and bully any woman who dares challenge them. Fuck. Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck.

It's also good that you are seeking as much help as you can prior to your insurance running out. But there may be some options for you in even after your insurance is out--but start looking now.

I don't like to go into too much detail, as this is still a public board--but check your area for public, low cost mental health services. Call around and see if there is any sort of rape crisis center, they frequently will have some sort of listing of local resources.

The rape crisis center most local to this area(where I live), offers some support groups, and referrals to counseling. They also offer counseling (low cost, no cost, sliding fee scale), but are generally booked months in advance.

I've even seen some things on the internet, though those may be tougher to check out (for safety concerns, etc.)...

I'm hoping some others weigh in with some ideas and options for you.

I'm very sorry for what you have had taken from you, and the experience you've gone through. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, the passage to it takes time and (unfortunately) some effort on your part. Know that it is ok to feel whatever you are feeling--give yourself permission to feel as mad, bad, sad, or shitty as you feel right now.

:hug:

I've been dealing with this for a while, so I know some of my options, but I unfortunately haven't had very good luck with the low-cost services my university offers students, so I'm not very optimistic about that route right now. Plus I'll be moving in about a month and I have no idea what will be available where I'm moving. So, I don't really want to find a therapist now. I just want something, some Rx drugs or other solution, to tide me over (yeah, I know that sounds kind of bad). But I just can't believe how many women I know who've dealt with similar shit, and I fear for them and what they're going through and will go through. It's not fucking fair that we have to sit here trying to solve this shit after it happens, when it would make more sense to prevent it from happening to begin with -- and I don't mean by sending those e-mails about what women should do to prevent rape. I mean that we as a society should be working to end the attitudes that allow it to happen (which I realize that everyone here is doing) rather than just putting band-aids over gushing wounds, which is what most cities' woefully inadequate mental health services are for rape survivors.

Sadly, a lot of cities do merely offer band aids. Mental health assistance is desperately needed for rape victims so they can turn that crucial corner and become survivors. Unfortunately, far too many people that pursue a career in mental health, look at the dollar signs and not the need and the opportunity to make a real difference.

The rape crisis center I spoke of in my other post is so back logged. They are one of the few places that offers support for women like this, and because they do, they have more clients than they can handle. The counselors are paid a salary, so that the clients don't have to worry about the money--only about their own healing.

I'm so sorry that you've had such an awful time finding someone affordable and decent. You may also want to check into the cities victim assistance organization. Do a google search under victim assistant services or victim assistance. Some cities have people knows as victim assistants, they work for you and can plug you into whatever kind of services are available in your area.

I understand feeling like you would like to take something to help you right now...that's natural.

You may want to check into rape crisis hotlines--sometimes they can offer resources. Also a visit to the local bookstore or library may be helpful too. Or go to amazon.com. A search for rape crisis books may result in some books that could be helpful while you are moving to a new area.

Here's another :hug:

I just did a Google search on my city, and surprise, surprise, everything our city does for survivors/victims revolves around legal aid for those who decide to prosecute, which neither I nor my roommate have any intention of doing. No mention of counseling except a link to a rape crisis center I've already looked at that focuses on family issues and is probably backlogged as hell. (And it's weird that a woman-focused center in my city with an excellent reputation isn't listed on the city Web site. It's probably omitted in the interests of being fair to men, even though the center also provides assistance for men. :eyes:) That's another one of my concerns, is that while I don't really have the money to pay, I know there are a lot of women who are a lot worse off than me and who have a lot less money, and I'm not willing to go to a center that's backlogged and possibly deny services to women who are in an even worse situation than me. I just won't do it. Honestly, I've looked into just about everything in the area, and although the city is fairly large, there's just nothing unless I want to look for private practitioners.

I've also read a lot of books on the topic, and obsessively gone through all the articles at a huge center on violence that my university hosts -- although now that you bring it up, that would be an excellent suggestion for my roommate. I feel so ridiculous, having been through this myself and not knowing where on earth to begin for her, or how to begin. I don't know if she wants to get counseling, if she wants to read about it (I think my own research helped more than any counseling I got) or if she just needs someone to be there for her. Or, maybe she'll suck it up and handle the situation beautifully and I won't need to do anything. But I'm just afraid that she'll end up where I am, and I don't want that to happen to anyone. I'm sorry; I don't want to sound like I'm deflecting your suggestions or trying to be difficult, but I just feel like I've exhausted all the resources I have here. I keep thinking that I must be missing something, but more and more I realize that I'm not. My supposedly progressive city just doesn't give a shit about the welfare of women.

what the subject of your thread had to be, but I went ahead and posted my pitiful (in comparison) little celebration.

Big sigh.

I'm so very sorry -- for you, for your friends, and your roommate. Rape and other violence against women is commonly understood to be the underpinning of all oppression of women. Your post is very eloquent testimony to that. Very eloquent indeed. It's so eloquent that I think it should be posted in every thread on DU where societal and DU sexism is challenged.

I am so sorry for your pain, and the pain of the other women in your circle who are sharing this victimization. I wish I had a magic wand to erase it all and simultaneously serve up suitable "justice" for your rapists -- and I do mean suitable. (Now why does Lorena Bobbitt always come to mind when discussing "suitable justice" for rapists? Curious, isn't it?)

I have a friend who I believe was raped when she was in college, over 40 years ago now. She has never married and in fact rarely if ever dated, that I know of. Nor does she seem to be lesbian, unless she's got that hidden even from herself. She takes a pile a pills each and every day. A week or two ago, her psychiatrist put her in the hospital over the weekend (and of course, she HAS no medical insurance), because she had an "anxiety attack" -- that pile of pills is supposed to ward off everything painful or uncomfortable, and apparently something slipped through. She has numbed herself to most of her life, from my observation. It's not NORMAL to live one's life medicated against everything that could be unpleasant or uncomfortable -- and also anaesthetize oneself against the joy too. We're supposed to be ble to get through that, and drugs in general don't allow that and may even make it less likely.

That's not to say I think there may not be a TEMPORARY place for these drugs, or even perhaps in a few cases (Schizophrenia?) a permanent need, but I'm begging you as you get through this, please do not give your life over to a pile of pills like my friend has. There ARE better solutions and I'm confident that over the coming years you can heal to a much greater extent than to merely numb yourself. I'm not saying don't take any, I'm just saying CAUTION: they can be a trap, a seductive but ultimately very costly one.

I so hope you get the help you need -- and will hold the thought for healing for you. If there's anything we can do, I hope you'll call on us. I hope you will continue to talk about it, if that helps.

Hugs. :hug:

Not to make light of this thread, or to go off topic(much)...

I'm not usually pro-death penalty, EXCEPT when it comes to rapists and child molesters.

I've seen too many documentaries where these guys, particularly child molesters have stated they could have all the counseling in the world, but they will never NOT want to have sex with children.

I figure, why not just put them out of their misery?

Oh, and I saw something similiar on rapists--very scary. Nothing could rehabilitate these guys...

Your concerns about pills are very similar to mine, and are part of the reason I haven't succumbed to that solution yet. When I first went in for counseling at my university, my therapist seemed really eager to put me on meds, but I refused. However, after seeing her for counseling, I can see why her patients would need medication... I'm also wary of the idea of just packing everything away in the back of my mind and not dealing with it, because I've found that the longer I deny these things, the worse it is when they finally surface. And, of course, that's exactly what pills would do -- convince me that everything's hunky-dory (sp?) when it's really not. I guess what's really rushing me into this is the possibility of not having the option of getting medication for a very long time, which is definitely not the right reason to go on meds.

Also, don't feel bad about your thread! If anything, stuff like that will help me and others, will make us feel a little less like the world hates us for not having a 'Y' chromosome. So post away! And again, thanks a million to you, bliss and everyone else here for your support and concern. And hell, if anyone feels like posting my message or a link to it elsewhere, go for it. I'm leaving work now, so I won't post again tonight, but if anybody thinks my words can help -- I say go all out. :)

If you were anywhere around me, you'd get the biggest hug of your life (assuming you were okay with that).

I can tell you this: YOU HAVE THE STRENGTH to get thru this and get to a brighter place. I don't know for sure how it will happen, what the steps will be or how long it will take for you to "arrive" at that place -- a few years, I'm getting -- but there will come a time when you look back and say, "I see the reason for my journey." And it will all (mostly all) have been good. I promise.

Perhaps you will help others' heal. Perhaps you will help prevent others from having to go through this. Perhaps your journey will land you in a different place all together, but you WILL spin this straw into gold.

:blush: And yes, I accept hugs from anybody who's not a scary guy just looking to grope me. :pals:

When I was in college, every one of my closest female friends was either raped or attempted rape. I knew that it could have been me but I happened to be lucky. I often got the first call since they knew I would be supportive. I went through a few years of intense anger and hatred of all men. I saw sexism in everything. I hung in the most ardent feminist circles. I did not get involved with any men.

The one thing I did do was work actively on programs to prevent rape. I was in college so that was easier. I fought for lights. We designated a few paths that would have police patrols and askes ALL students to use them. We tried to teach men that it was their responsibility to use these paths to keep them crowded and that they had to walk a woman home if she felt scared. We talked to women to trust their instincts and not to be embarassed to say they were nervous. I felt like I was doing something.

Because I had to work with men and women, I found many who are supportive and concerned. I slowly got over my anger and hatred of all men. I had a better perspective and targetted my passion to the offenders and enablers of rape. My depression and my consuming anger is mostly gone.

I'm sorry for all you are facing right now. Many :hug:. This happens to too many women and I'm so pissed at all those who minimize the pain or accept the rape culture we live in.

I am now 56 and finally feel safe from rape. Men do not notice women of my age in a sexual way. When we exchange glances there is no sexual undertone. What a pleasure it is.

From the age of 15 to 45 that was not the case. The possibility of sexual violence was always there. From the age of 15 to 30 I can't tell you how many close calls I had. Men at work, men while I was taking walks in the middle of the day, men in hallways. What a pain in the neck. Pedophiles, friends, drunks. It sounds like I was living some kind of sordid life but no I was living a upper middle class life, going to college and graduate school, getting a professional degree and working as a highly paid professional.

Now that my daughter is 12 I have inordinate fear for her. When will it happen to her? Will someone try to feel her up, pick her up, push her against a wall, what? It drives me crazy.

Chicaloca, know that you are not alone and that we as women need to keep on breathing and we will survive.

I had several different therapists until finally at the age of 34 I found an excellent one. Although my professional self was highly developed my personal one was not. I cannot say that it was the male dominant environment that caused this. There were significant personal/family issues that undermined my self development and my response to men. Finally this therapist was able to help me become whole. The second thing that helped me was becoming involved in research on the ancient feminine--30,000BC to 3500BC.

Keep moving forward, keep seeking help and keep the true power of women in your sights.

If rape were about sex, you would be safer. But rape ISN'T about sex. I call it: violence (against women) sexualized. It's control and power over and anger and hatred and all THAT and so much more sexualized.

You will never be truly "safe" from rape until you're dead. We routinely hear of 80+ year old women raped, beaten, robbed and sometimes killed.

You are a woman: therefore, you are vulnerable to being raped.

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but you need to know.

to being raped, believe me. It is, however, a relief not to be constantly aware of being pursued.

:evilgrin:

Actually, I thought it was quite poignant, in a good way.

I wonder if men understand -- nevermind, of course they don't. I wonder what men would THINK to know how utterly unwanted their constant, oversexed attention is?

this. :hug:

That rape is a physical problem for women and a moral problem for men. At least that's the way it should be viewed but as I think we all know, we women are still saddled by society with the moral burden as well. You see it here on DU when the subject of acquaintance rape comes up and all sorts of attempts to blame women and absolve rapists. "Boys will be boys" "That's just how it is" and my personal favorite "Men have a higher sex drive! They need sex more! It's biology!" Um, ok but what about that would entitle them to the use of another (unwilling or incapacitated) person's body to relieve that need?

Rape will continue to happen as long as the gender that is the primary victim of it is also given the primary responsibility for preventing it. We are now at least giving lip service to the idea that men are at least as responsible for preventing rape as women, even men who would never think of raping a woman. Every woman, whether or not she is ever raped, has to be concerned about it. The same should be true for men.

Rape will continue to happen as long as the gender that is the primary victim of it is also given the primary responsibility for preventing it. We are now at least giving lip service to the idea that men are at least as responsible for preventing rape as women, even men who would never think of raping a woman. Every woman, whether or not she is ever raped, has to be concerned about it. The same should be true for men.

So damned, maddeningly true. Thanks for making it.

I've been stewing about it for days. The exact quote isn't available because the thread is deleted but the gist of it was that many of us in this group here have personal experiences that limit our perspective and render us incapable of objectivity where gender issues are concerned. Seriously. He said that, in an oh-so-condescending manner. Wrap your head around that one. If you've been raped or abused you are not qualified to discuss how you see sexism in society contributing to that or about how degrading images of women continue to remind you of what you went through and prevent you from healing. Nope, keep your mouth shut you crazy rape victim. Is it any wonder then that rape and abuse survivors deal with shit for decades in silence and shame, when people will so callously use those experiences against them? That's the whole point of a comment like that, intimidation. Those who benefit from rape culture what to shut us up.

Well I'm NOT shutting up, assholes. :grr:

insinuating that many women are "damaged," and their "damage" limits their perspective. What the fuck ever.

I ain't shuttin up either! :hi:

Were he/she banned? :argh:

The person has not been banned and probably won't ever be since his views are shared by a lot of the so-called free speech/anti-PC brigade here on DU. I didn't even bother alerting on the post because I doubt it would even be deleted it was phrased so carefully (though now I realize I should have anyway). The intention was clear, to portray members of this group as hysterical victims who are so emotionally overwrought over our past experiences, that we are overly sensitive to harmless male hijinks on DU.

The opposite is believed to be true of male DUers who claim to have had issues. They are given credibility and even expert status. Because unless it happens to a male, it hasn't really happened.

Bullies HATE the voices of hurting people It reminds them of what bullies they are and that deep down violence and domination is chosen behaviors that hurt.Bullies can't handle freedom..But it is freedom to abuse they fight for,in the guise of freedom for all!

The first thing any bully (any bully)wants to do is get away with abusing others..So to pretend a choice they made was not their own decision,they blame the victim. They scream SHUT UP to the person they have hurt,and anyone else expressing similar pain that REMINDS THEM of their WRONGDOINGS.. They seek to silence the rightful anger and expression of the voice that tells the bully/wannabe dominator what they really ARE( pathetic weak immoral loser bullies who do not deserve trust power respect or tolerance because they LIKE to choose to abuse and use their freedom to ruin others freedom and lives..because abuse makes a bully feel like a somebody.)Bullies hate victims,and it is abusive people who are responsible for creating victims..And they hate victims because victims remind them what they choose,and are DOING is wrong,and how it HURTS.It reminds the rapist he is indeed a rapist just a piece of shit that is not to be trusted or given freedom of choice by ANYONE.Yet the rapist wants to rape chooses to rape that that is why he defends his choice to abuse and defame women so strongly and viciously. He wants that choice to rape even if it makes half the population sick and scared and miserable and imprisooned..Because this very sick power dynamic is what abusers Choose to get off on.


It's the same reason vivisectionists deliberately cut the vocal chords of dogs they cut up"for science" alive,because if the "scientist" was to have to HEAR the crying and whimpering of the dog he is torturing he would have to feel what the dog is feeling and realize HE is causing the suffering and is GUILTY of causing traumas and inflicting torture on another living feeling sentient being.
And his"power" over would have to face MORAL consequences and he'd realize his choice to hurt and animal is his own moral failure and due to his choice.

Abusers attempt to force forgetting and to erase the fact of their own EVIL choices when they hurt victims screaming they hit them and scream SHUT UP!
No rapist rapes in the view of others unless the others sympathize and consent with the choice to rape as if it is ok.
So in effect a rapist cannot rape without a culture keeping him company and excusing,rationalizing,attacking,deflecting, or by standing on his behalf.

This is all because the truth ...hurts the guilty.And the asshole doing the hurting should feel the burn of his well deserved shame. But sadly rape still has a culture for company. And only a "culture for company" can begin negate the burn of shame in a rapist's choices by normalizing the abuses and blaming the victim for being hurt by an abuser who CHOSE all by himself to do the harm to another.


Violence to others that is NOT done in self defense is ALWAYS the result of a deliberate voluntary conscious choice a person made.And that is the ugly truth a bully does not want to have spoken out loud.
Because it means he is a bad person not to be trusted with freedom or power or anything else.

Physically and mentally - we're damaged if we've been raped.

SOMEONE damaged gets that way by unwanted contact with something damaging...Turn it around ask what damaged her?..A defective male the coarse bull in the china shop stomping around breaking everything ,.A defective human with the domination disease that will damage entire nations if it's infection is not contained..The side effect of living with bullies rapists and sociopaths and playing make believe and blaming victims and tolerating abuse and pretending it is not the results of a dominating asshole's CHOICE to harm others is people will still get hurt.It's ALWAYS the rapists fault when someone is raped.. he CHOSE to rape rather than go home and use his hand on himself... Rape is always a CHOICE a sociopath makes because he thinks he can get away with it.Rape is not anyone but the perpetrators fault because he CHOSE to do it..He harmed another person,voluntarily and it is HIS shame..

I don't think anyone would argue that it's never the victims fault. I don't recall anyone, in this forum, ever saying that anyway.

To reinforce the truth in the face of trauma. Because there are assholes out there..even on DU..

People on DU have blamed the victims before.

Cause people on DU have indeed blamed the victim.

in that case, all the men and boys in the lounge who whine about their bad experiences with women also aren't qualified to talk about women, yet they're seen as the quintessential experts on women, even more so than women ourselves are. Really, how the fuck are people who know the end result of smaller acts of misogyny not allowed to talk about it? I mean, isn't saying that a rape victim/survivor has no right to be an authority on rape pretty much the same (though less offensive) as saying that somebody who's studied abroad can never be an authority on studying abroad? Damn, I'm going to have to alert my university to this development...All those damned study abroad alumni who keep coming into my language classes telling me what studying abroad is like.... :grr: