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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-27-06 01:25 PM
Original message
Pornography, rape, power, control, etc.
From the Den of the Biting Beaver

http://bitingbeaver.blogspot.com/2006/02/rape-as-control.html

Feminists and advocates for women have long said that rape is a crime of control, that it's not a crime about sex and that sex is just the chosen weapon. To be perfectly honest I just assumed that everyone 'got it' but I'm seeing that I was wrong, there are legitimate questions about rape being about control and I'm going to try to tackle them here....

It is also a world of selfishness, they(boys) learn that they can do and say almost anything they want to girls while they are still very young. From the time that they pull that first ponytail in second grade, on up to the time that they begin snapping bra-straps and looking up the stairs in order to see the girl’s panties. They learn that most of their behavior is tolerated and excused and that, in fact, girls are the acceptable target of their violence....

Teenage boys are told that sex is what they're after. And, to that end, almost anything goes in a boy’s acquisition of sex. Sex, "makes you a man", sex, and having sex, are ways to claim power.... Entire movies have been devoted to making men lose their virginity. Even adult men who are seemingly powerful with decent jobs aren't really powerful until they get laid. And even though every man has awoke the next morning to find that they’re not different the propaganda continues, the message continues to be enforced and reinforced until it becomes almost automatic....

In pornography women not only become objects, they become animals and the men looking at porn not only don’t respect the women but they also come to feel anger towards them. Even progressing to outright hostility. They see men acting in horrific, derogatory ways and they see that the women like it and even deserve it. Pornography is not only a reflection of these power/submission ideals; it is an active espouser of the same ideals. It tells men that it’s good for them to do these things to women. That women deserve it and like it....



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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-27-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fascinating article. I don't have time to comment on everything
in it, but she lays out her case very well. I'm interested to see where her next few posts take us.

Conversely, we are inundated by just how horrifying it is when women say “No”. Over anything, it is common knowledge that a simple “No” from a woman is a horrifying thing to have happen and that those words alone will strip a man of every shred of dignity and power.

Don’t believe me? See if this rings a bell.

In sitcoms, movies and the like we watch the sympathetic camera follow our hero at a club, he approaches the young, beautiful woman and says, "May I buy you a drink?” His eyes are bright, his manners impeccable. Suddenly, the camera slows down and turns to the beautiful woman, her faces screws up into a mask of disgust and revulsion; her once pretty features turn almost harpy-like as she surveys our hero. "No" she says, her voice dripping with disgust and scorn. The camera has now slowed to a crawl and the "No" is dragged out to sound like, "Nooooooo”. We watch as the hero’s face falls, the light goes out of his eyes, the camera resumes in normal speed, “I wouldn't let YOU buy me a drink if you were the last man alive" she turns, and in a flurry of movement she disappears. Our hero is crushed and we watch his face fall as every single man looks at him with barely concealed scorn and pity. He is a failure, he is beaten and she has embarrassed him and defeated him. He slinks away, his power stolen by the vindictive bitch who told him "No".

This scenario is repeated time and again, with varying hitches. Sometimes it’s the well-meaning boyfriend who has taken his unwitting girlfriend to lovers lane. When he tries to lovingly kiss her she pushes him away and says “No” the music takes a dramatic turn. Our poor, neglected boyfriend looks more like a kicked puppy than anything and he looks around to see all the other men in all the other cars “getting some”. We feel pity for him, why? Because that cold, callous bitch said, “No”.
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-28-06 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Fascinating article,
I think much of her article is true. I haven't seen enough pornography to know if her description is true of all pornography. I do think much of male culture tries to make women objects instead of real human beings and that legitimizes rape.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-28-06 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Too true
Socialize boys to think that sex=power (and power is everything), and it is just setting the stage for sexual violence.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-28-06 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. i think that a lot of people have trouble understanding that rape is an
act of violence, not a sex act.

i was actually planning on writing about this today, so this was a very timely thread for me, thank you.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-28-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That link led me to
this one - http://www.hustlingtheleft.com/

I was not aware that Amy Goodman (one of my favorite news people) as well as Greg Palast (apparently has a regular column), Danny Schechter and other lefty news people have been working with Hustler - having interviews posted, etc. (@ hustlingtheleft.com there is plenty of evidence of why this is a negative thing.)


Stan Goff (Excerpted from KPFK interview): Everybody loved me when I was the left's Green Beret alpha male, as soon as I started critiquing gender as a system of social power people became allergic. Actually that's is not true across the board. In fact, in making this critique, I have seen some people shift, to become curious and begin the process of them being critical of the process themselves. So I think really what is to be done in the immediate future, I think this is a debate that has to take place very vigorously on the left first because that's where the impetus for social change tends to come from. Feminists and Leftists are natural allies, and the reason they've been in this no fault divorce for so long, I think, is laid at the doorstep of the male left. So I would ask them in the past in the same way they had to become self critical about how they had internalized racism and other issues that they also have to become critical about how they are complict in Patriarchy as a system of unequal social power.

http://www.hustlingtheleft.com/CRAPP_E_LIB/audio/index.html
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. bloom--i liked your post in GD, just wanted to let you know without
igniting the anger machine, lol.

KB
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Just read that thread. Amazing how quickly it was ripped to
pieces!
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I mostly just wanted to get the ideas out there
I admit that I abandoned the thread after I made the second post. I think it's just as well - having gone back to see how things went. There will be those outside of this group who will ensure that any discussion of such topics is a flame fest.

Hustler is not something I sit around monitoring - but I do find the notion appalling that leftists - esp. some of the best spokespeople for the left (Amy Goodman, Greg Palast and others) -apparently see no problem with racist, sexist, pedophilic promoters and apologists. It is nice to find other spokespeople who do find a problem with these things - like Stan Goff.

It also disturbs me that many leftist news people can be disturbed by all manner of "others" (outside the group mentality) who are "racist, sexist, pedophilic promoters and apologists" and other people who abuse power, but don't care to look at who they promote themselves. How blind they seem to be as part of the power structure - even as they would like others to think that they are attacking/dissenting against the power group. There is some major hypocrisy going on there.

I don't really want to identify with a group that has no problem with a publication that runs cartoons joking about child molesting, rape, and that are racist and sexist, homophobic and such. I guess some people think that it is fun and games to offend people (are they surprised when people are offended?). They may as well put out a sign saying "White Straight Males Only".

I guess that means my "group" is the radical feminist group. Those are people I agree with.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. It's puzzling to me to see people who identify themselves as
radical leftists refusing to hear any other point of view on issues like pornography. You make some very good points about the unsavory aspects of "the business," but it's impossible to have a rational discussion about that when some people would rather shout us down and tell us our concerns are meaningless. Criticizing some issues of the porn business does not make one insecure, or a closet right-winger, or a prude.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. It seems to me
that part of the problem is the Liberal/Libertarian thing.

I think of liberal ideology as encompassing the rights and interests of feminists, gays, minorities, children as well as "white, straight males".

I think the Hustler (Libertarian) mentality partly encourages people to think selfishly - to NOT think about the "rights and interests of feminists, gays, minorities, children as well as "white, straight males" - but for people to focus on themselves being able to say and do as they wish without regard to consequences. Mostly this is focused at "white, straight males" - but others seem to fall into the trap as well.

I never really thought of Libertarians as being "left" - my brother, a Republican embraces Libertarian ideas and I think of his position an opposite to mine - even though there may be something we agree on (I can't think of anything offhand). And yet here it seems that we have "Libertarians" trying to pretend that they are the real leftists - who happen to not give a crap about anything or anybody. As far as I'm concerned - THAT is the attitude/thinking that I observe in the Republicans that I am fighting. That is the same attitude/thinking that gives us torture at Abu Gharib and pre-emptive war and the whole nine yards.

If I wanted to be a part of a party that was mostly interested in the interests of "white, straight males" - I would be a Republican.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think that is a big part of the problem.
I see some issues on which liberals and libertarians agree, but that agreement breaks down pretty quickly when we start talking about other issues. And the libertarian mindset is pretty widespread, even among people who don't consider themselves libertarians.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Thanks
See my post #8 - that is for you too.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. "The Conversations of Consent: Sexual Intimacy Without Sexual Assault"
Katherine Brengle posted a thread about this article and I just wanted to link it here. It's a nice companion piece from men who "get it".


http://www.teachingsexualethics.org/writing/conversations.htm


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=622768
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thanks for posting that thread
I'm rather disappointed that it's already been archived, but I will definitely add this book to my reading list.
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