Why I write not of men (from Bitch Ph.D.)

Anytime any women get together to have a conversation about women's problems, there's always a man there to say, "That happens to men, too!" or "You just want to take away what we have!" or "You have no idea how your feminism makes me feel!" Men who say these things are not feminists. Why do we still listen to them? Why do we bother letting them catch us up in stupid arguments about whether it's worse to be forced to have babies or to be forced to go to war? No one's drawing any comparisons, sweetheart. We're just dealing with these women's issues right now, you see, and if you'd like to help us solve these problems, please do. If you want to go solve the problems of the dominant culture, you're welcome to do so any time of any day. Most men have had the luxury of dealing with their own goddamned problems for, oh, at least 5,000 years.

When feminists get together online or in person to talk about our problems, the focus is on us. If we decide to deal with a different or more specific group's problems, you can bet straight white men's problems are not on the emergency to-do list. We might talk about men of color or gay men or impoverished men, but for some reason, straight white bourgeois men rarely take up a lot of our activist time. Some of us feminists happen to be straight white women who are involved sexually with straight white men. In my love life, I do care for a straight white man and we treat each other with complete respect. In my work, I deal all the time with straight white men, and I treat them all with exactly the respect with which I treat everyone else. But in my activist life, when dealing in abstracts, I don't think, "You know who desperately needs my help today? Straight white dudes."

When men derail a conversation about feminism, they are not interrupting a conversation in which privileged little girls are sitting around bitching to hear our own voices or even to solve our own problems, necessarily. They are often interrupting a conversation in which we are concerned with the least fortunate among us, the ones who have to struggle to get through a day because of who they are. When we talk about abortion rights, it's not because each of us desperately wants to have an abortion. It's because we know that the people who suffer most from abortion bans are almost always poor women of color who don't have anything like reasonable representation in government.

Anyone who has really suffered learns to comfort themselves by thinking, "And yet others have it worse." It is the ugliest of bourgeois privileges to burst into a conversation about discrimination to talk of your own dilemmas, because, somehow, the most privileged person in the room always gets the floor while the others are expected to stand back and say, "Perhaps I've been selfish." It's what they have been told their whole lives, so why should they expect better, even in a "feminist" environment?

More: http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/

But first, as a conoisseur, I have to note that BitchPhD didn't write this: She's on a vacation for a bit. This was written by A White Bear of Is there no sin in it?.

When men derail a conversation about feminism, they are not interrupting a conversation in which privileged little girls are sitting around bitching to hear our own voices or even to solve our own problems, necessarily. They are often interrupting a conversation in which we are concerned with the least fortunate among us, the ones who have to struggle to get through a day because of who they are.

:applause:

It is the ugliest of bourgeois privileges to burst into a conversation about discrimination to talk of your own dilemmas, because, somehow, the most privileged person in the room always gets the floor while the others are expected to stand back and say, "Perhaps I've been selfish."

:applause:

To interrupt a conversation about the struggles faced by an oppressed group is to become the oppressor.

Hell. Fucking. Yes.

:yourock:

Is it that hard for men who don't care about women's problems to just let us talk?

Sing it, White Bear!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

So, how long before THEY show up, or this thread gets locked as flamebait?

I knew this might be considered inflammatory, but it reminded me of some of our discussions here, so I thought it would be worth sharing.

I will be beyond livid. This is a perfect explanation of what the REAL problem is - we can't even TALK about the problems from OUR perspective because we're always being told we have to be mindful of men's feelings. This article is the ENTIRE reason this group was formed. Anyone wants to lock it or report on it to the mods, does not understand the whole damn point of the group.

I will add more thoughts on the OP later - right now I'm running out with my white male husband to take my white male nephew to the science museum (even though I must hate all that is male because I'm a feminist. :grr: )

As long as the message is getting out there!

:hi:

that people who wish to derail threads or start threads supporting rapists - esp. the team athletes and sons of millionaires - are adding to the rape culture. It is nothing less.

And when DU allows that (mods - just go ahead an delete my post if you want - because I am criticizing DU) and instead of deleting posts that are supporting the rapists and the defense attorneys - giving them the benefit of the doubt even when there is physical evidence and videos or whatnot. Esp. those posts that suggest the woman must be lying - as if women often lie about rape - when that is NOT true.

This supports the mentality when people go into a courtroom - that they should give more weight to the defense than they do to the prosecution. This makes it more likely there will be hung-juries. It encourages rapists. And it discourages women who have to live in a rape-culture. It's bad enough to know that the fans of privilege are going to back up the athletes, the rich, the military in their rape culture behavior. It stinks that we have to live that here.


(And I noticed that it was mostly the women sports writers who were calling for the athletes to come clean. Imagine that. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x200753 )

It all boils down to that sense of entitlement and the knowledge that they'll get away with it.