This is maddening, on more than one level:

Apparently, some of the fine upstanding boys of Mt. Lebanon High School, located in a very wealthy suburb of Pittsburgh, compiled a list of some 25 of their female classmates, ranking them on appearance, whether or not they "put out", etc. I've excerpted some of the more irritating parts of the story.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06117/685523-55.stm

A bit about the school's sexual harrassment policy:

<snip>
At issue is whether the list, which includes grades for girls' faces, breasts and buttocks and talks about drug use, oral sex, sexually transmitted disease and weight, constitutes criminal sexual harassment or violation of the school's policy against sexual harassment.
<snip>

Now, these fine young men weigh in:

<snip>
While attorneys on both sides debated the issue, students outside the high school at dismissal yesterday generally said the matter was overblown.

"It's just kids being kids," said Michael Gallaway, 16. Junior Tim DeVito chalked up some of the upset and publicity to the fact that it seems like Mt. Lebanon is under a microscope. "It's very conservative," said junior Colin Brooks. "Any other place, it would be way less important," said Michael Stang, a junior.
<snip>

So, are they being persecuted because their neighborhood is "very conservative"? :eyes:

Now, here's the best part:

<snip>
However, Mr. Difenderfer said something is not a rumor if it is true. He also said "truth is a defense" in a defamation case, something parents should consider if they file a civil suit. "Reputation is everything," he said.
<snip>

Oh, the truth is a defense, is it? So if any of these girls actually do have large buttocks, large breasts, or, god forbid, have been sexually active, that makes this list okay? And, just whose "reputation is everything"? :grr:

Now, this is my kind of parent:
<snip>
The parent of the student whose heritage was ridiculed said if the district does not take corrective action, "We will take action."
<snip>

If anyone did this to my daughters, I'd sue their asses to kingdom come. I will not sit idly by and let "boys be boys" at the expense of my own children. Anyone who condones this or attempts to minimize it will not learn unless they get hit where it hurts the most: their wallet.

Oy. Sexists never get tired of using that one.

"sexists will be sexists."

It's a handy way to excuse any hate speech, sexism, racism. "Oh well, that's how people are, therefore we may as well not address the issue."

anything to justify sub-human behaviour....

and it's just one more way boys coerce girls into having sex. "be nice and put out and we'll say good things about you. We won't say what you did. But if you don't put out we'll say you did, and we'll say that you're nasty."

I'll bet that there is less truth and more malice in that list than those defenders think.

But if you don't put out we'll say you did, and we'll say that you're nasty.

Wouldn't that make them (the boys) nasty too? I mean it takes two to tango, and if one parnter is nasty, the other would be by default. Shit like this makes me so glad I was off the radar in HS. I may not have had very many friends, but at least I could trust the few I had.

As to the story, I'd sue their asses and everyone elses if they did that to my daughter. Crap like this is almost enough to make me not want to have children.* How do kids get to be this way? Is it peer pressure, is it problems (attitudes) at home? Hormones and a sociopathic personality (I'll get what I want and I don't give a damn if it hurts you to give it to me)? And :wtf: does it matter if the list is true, although that's doubtful? I bet if the girls started a list about which guy has a small dick and can't last 5 seconds, the people defending this atrocity would be on it like flies on shit. :mad:



*Only when the inclination strikes, I'm not a really a kid person. Babies are cute, but they grow up and scare me. :scared:

But I have a twin brother (fraternal) who was sleeping around, using drugs and getting frequently drunk at 14 years old. So being the sober one I got to see a lot of slimy behaviour.

He even convinced one of the girls to offer to have sex with me so that maybe I wouldn't be such a geeky embarassment to him. I guess he figured that if I was getting some sympathy sex I'd suddenly become more like him.

Turning down sex just made me more of an embarrassing geek, so I stayed on the outside watching him and his friends having "fun."

but your brother sounds like a nut case. He has grown up from these attitudes, right?

And we both mean it. I think he's evil because of thing's he's done, things he's stolen, people he's hurt. He thinks I'm evil because I'm a liberal, salad eating faggot.

Such is life. Not everyone gets blessed with a good family. I don't take offense that people know it.

"But if you don't put out we'll say you did, and we'll say that you're nasty."

This only makes sense if you realize that the boys who do this really don't think highly of the girls, especially girls who express their sexuality. It's like saying, "If you give me what I want I'll at least pretend that I don't think you're disgusting. If you don't give me what I want then I'm going to tell everyone how disgusting I wish you were, and I'll hate you for not being that disgusting."

It's obvious that guys who do this don't know much about sexuality, don't respect it, and don't know how to value people. They're trapped by conflicting values and taking it out on girls either way.

"If you give me what I want I'll at least pretend that I don't think you're disgusting."

That lose-lose situation is part what exasperates a lot of us when it comes to women posing in Playboy, etc. And the mentality has shown it's head in outrageous force in the Duke threads. If the woman hadn't been raped then being a stripper would have been a wonderful, empowering thing in the eyes of many posters. However, once she had been raped, being a stripper made her credibility questionable. ("What did she think would happen?")

Basically, there are some men and women who are going to think women are "disgusting" no matter what they do.

If the woman hadn't been raped then being a stripper would have been a wonderful, empowering thing in the eyes of many posters. However, once she had been raped, being a stripper made her credibility questionable. ("What did she think would happen?")

God, I'm glad I hid those threads. What really astounds me is the women calling her a liar, whore, etc. I mean for crying out loud, what's wrong with them??? Do they have that much hate for their gender?



women posing in Playboy

To get onto a tanget, what's with these girls on TV having an orgasm when they get pictured in playboy?! It's nothing to be ashamed of, but it shouldn't be the best/most important thing in your life either? Wouldn't having an education, a career be more important/satisfying than the "milestone" of posing for playboy (I guess centerfold is as high as you can go, unless you want to be a bunny)? I don't even want to get started on modeling. :grr:

I'd love to hear what people think about modeling, and this idea that being a centerfold is a life-defining achievement.

On a related note, I wonder about the attitudes that make it so easy for the industry to recruit so many women for such a growing volume of porn.

that's what the problem is.


Seems like there are so many things that people can do to each that are really crap - that are not necessarily illegal - esp. if you can't sue on sexual harassment or other grounds.

It just hearken back to the same analogy - if people were openly racist - would people accept that? I don't think so - at least they shouldn't.


The list is really pushing the idea that it's the woman who will be attacked and objectified - reducing any sense that a girl having sex is ok - while the boys are the ones scoring and keeping score.


Some people might think that women could put out their own list - and maybe they should - only do a list of who the rapers are (and we know how many rapes are not officially reported - at least the other women could inform each other). And which boys go overboard with his coercive techniques, etc. Because with all of our so-called equality - it seems that things have not changed all that much - and if anything - might be getting worse.

just to see if THIS would still be "just boys being boys": instead of rating the girls on physical attributes like their breasts and buttocks, or their sexual activity, what if the boys were rating other kids based on racial stereotypes - whether the Jewish kids had hook noses and were grasping, the African-American kids had thick lips and were in gangs, the Irish kids had freckles on their asses and drank too much, the Italian girls had facial hair and their boyfriends were criminals. Do you think the community would be up in arms?

I think they'd be ready to burn these boys at the stake.

Now, let's ask ourselves. Why is it not okay to objectify people based on stereotypical "racial" attributes - but it IS okay, in some people's minds, to objectify the girls based on stereotypical "sexual" attributes?

Neither one is even remotely okay. These boys should be doing community service for the next year, picking up trash in the skankiest part of town or serving in a soup kitchen or working as hospice orderlies. They need to learn a little human decency and compassion.

Man, everything I read today is making me madder than the last thing. Why are people such ASSHOLES?!

Mandatory expulsion unless education regarding rape, violence against women and sexual stereotypes is completed. As well as some sort of community service that deals with the results of violence (not necessarily against women--maybe children, these boys are WAY too indoctrinated) with a conditional return to school once/if all these criteria have been met. AND a public apology. I say violence because these are the attitudes that are precursors to sexual violence. The young women are divided into body parts and dehumanized. It's sexism at it's mentally ill worst and anybody who dismisses it is missing some very dangerous signals.
Has anybody seen this website, or know anything about it?
http://www.mencanstoprape.org/
I've looked it over a couple of times, I see that it tries to appeal to young men's "strength" but I haven't looked into too much. It seems on the level.

Except then the Women's Studies departments would be overburdened teaching classes to a bunch of people who don't want to be there. The classes would end up getting stretched thin, watered down, and there would be fewer resources for the WS classes people really want to take.

Those were some of the most intense, thought provoking classes I ever took.