An interesting point about who gets mixed up in porn

And why.

Re victimization

Revictimization is a consistent finding.35,47,61 Victims of rape are more likely to be raped and women who were physically or sexually abused as children are more likely to be abused as adults. Victims of child sexual abuse are at high risk of becoming prostitutes.38,72,125 Russell,120 in a very careful study of the effects of incest on the life of women, found that few women made a conscious connection between their childhood victimization and their drug abuse, prostitution, and suicide attempts. Whereas 38 per cent of a random sample of women reported incidents of rape or attempted rape after age 14, 68 per cent of those with a childhood history of incest did. Twice as many women with a history of physical violence in their marriages (27 per cent), and more than twice as many (53 per cent) reported unwanted sexual advances by an unrelated authority figure such as a teacher, clergyman, or therapist. Victims of father-daughter incest were four times more likely than non incest victims to be asked to pose for pornography.

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/vanderkolk/

I faced a child molester and incest,So I find this article saying this HAS played out in my life. I have been approached by pornographers. I said no. But I bet if I was not aware of how exploiting it is Could Have I been convinced by the lure of attention and money messing with the traumas I've been through.

I wonder how many girls on those girls gone wild videos are victims of incest or pedophiles?

what percentage of women in porn have been raped or abused, and it that played any role in their agreeing to make porn. If it could be shown that the porn industry could not exist on it's present scale without the widespread prior abuse of girls do you think that would that have any effect on the industry, or on the demand for porn?

it would do anything to the demand for porn.

when you bring these subjects up with people who are pro-porn, they just dismiss you.

Porn consumers have a way of seeing their consumption as existing outside of and separate from the porn industry. If the industry depends on widespread prior abuse of women, they will argue that the women would have been abused anyway, whether or not they went on to support themselves as sex workers. They cannot see themselves as part of the process (contributing to a system that continues to devalue and sexualize women, and thus perpetuates future abuse of girls).

So if you tell them, for instance, that a particular porn star has testified that she was not acting, but rather was raped, in a porn movie, consumers will argue that they weren't the ones who raped her, that's done now - water under the bridge. So what's the harm in continuing to watch and enjoy the movie? They honestly do not see the harm in using someone's rape or abuse as a source of sexual arousal, nor in contributing through consumption patterns or discourse to a system where we, as a culture, are aroused by the abuse of women.

of Trauma denied that controls alot of how we as a culture relate, are structured and how we deal with issues of sexually ,talk about sexuality, and also it changes how children are treated. Massive trauma denial I think it makes sure social services is underfunded and the courts lame when it comes to protecting kids.

Because so many adults in our culture have a hell of a lot of DENIAL about abuse, especially twords kids. Kids in our culture are not free to leave an abusive home themselves they are chattel of their parents or the state..When adults react to issues about sexual abuse in denial or hostility twords victims it makes me wonder how many of these adults have been abused sexually themselves as kids .I wonder will they really do ANYTHING or say anything no matter how stupid, dangerous and crazy to avoid the horrible feelings the unspeakable brings? Will they Deny Anything to keep whatever memories they have repressed so they can "function" as in get up go to work, maintain all the bullshit this consumer culture demands we do?


If 1 in 4 girls before age 18 get raped well that means there are alot of people running around our culture with some serious trauma issues lurking in their heads influencing their behaviors, choices and VOTES.. Don't tell me this level of traumatizing in the general population cannot effect HOW a society itself behaves on a personal AND the political level.

I remember early on in W's tyranny seeing stuff describing bush as the "discipliner" daddy. That fuck head calls himself "The Decider" WTF?? Can you say a wounded populace's projection of their own dysfunctions running the whitehouse?

This is what leads me to think the reason we as a society in general are letting psychopaths kill this planet and dominate us through of social systems and relationships IS because so many victims are dead set on maintaining that wall of denial and if you cannot deal with the truth of your own past it comes out in other ways, in mental illness, among other things. So if you consider a society has a few generations living all at the same time,a hell of alot of adults living right now are in denial of being molested or raped as kids or teens .And some are raising kids.

Being betrayed that way,is a terrible psychological trauma so maybe unconsciously alot of people want to die because something deep inside themselves is silenced, tormented ,suicidal and hates living in the land of make believe and duty as they pretend abuse does not do damage really...So this terrible lie manifests in an entire society as a sickening defending silence on this,and tolerance of the intolerable, because of the unspeakable they have suffered and will not speak it.

Notice how victims when they cannot recognize what abuse is will DEFEND and excuse perps, porn and all manner of vile things? They minimize the issues.Try to keep the victims discredited,and looking dehumanized , they shoot the messenger or blame the victim?
Even the bullshit Vampire theory gets said alot on DU out of sheer ignorance.

Myth #6 - The "Vampire Syndrome"�that is, boys who are sexually abused, like the victims of Count Dracula, go on to "bite" or sexually abuse others.

This myth is especially dangerous because it can create a terrible stigma for the child, that he is destined to become an offender. Boys might be treated as potential perpetrators rather than victims who need help.

While it is true that most perpetrators have histories of sexual abuse, it is NOT true that most victims go on to become perpetrators. Research by Jane Gilgun, Judith Becker and John Hunter found a primary difference between perpetrators who were sexually abused and sexually abused males who never perpetrated: non-perpetrators told about the abuse, and were believed and supported by significant people in their lives.

Again, the majority of victims do not go on to become adolescent or adult perpetrators; and those who do perpetrate in adolescence usually don't perpetrate as adults if they get help when they are young.
http://www.malesurvivor.org/myths.htm
I picked "male survivor because the site explained the vampire theory short and simple.And boys get abused too by adults.

I was on the board of a support group/drop in center for GBLT people who were mentally ill. The director was ignorant of what abuse IS. She didn't know her father showing her porn flicks on TV as a kid was abusive!!So during a psych rights conference a fucking registered sex offender showed up during our presentation.
I was up front standing at the big pad, writing audience questions down during the Q&A with a big fat magenta marker and I was organizing the power point stuff too..basically running around hoping my panther tail didn't bang anyone's coffee out of their hands as I ran up and down the center isle .When this pervert announced himself and that he liked kids sexually and was a registered sex offender I was about to lose it with that piece of shit in room. I had to walk past him at least a dozen times.I was thinking of catching the ugly bastard outside the hotel on the street and beating the living fuck out of him..I maintained composure tho.Didn't fuck up the presentation either.

Anyway unknown to me the Director let this fucker come to H&E because he was a GAY pedophile.

I was about to strangle the director for being so stupid.

I walked in and walked right to the office and called an emergency board meeting when I saw that shit sitting on the couch at the support group.I was yelling at the director I told her the asshole is a SEX offender, do you realize howe many victims of people like him attend here!! This piece of shit is NOT a peer! He's a criminal!! A danger. Some of our members have kids and this group is set up to help people socialize what if that fucker goes over someone's house and molests their kids!!! This asshole could get H&E shut down, You know how people hate gays and fear mentally ill people, throw that bastard in our midst and we will have half the city of baltimore picketing our place to be de-funded and shut down. So make him leave!

Well I left the group after chewing on the director. Like hell I was gonna open up and talk about my problems about being trans and asexual with that putrid thing in the room.

Next session with my therapist I and my ex asked if a pedophile sex offender who rapes boys was our"peer" Both our therapists said NO.
Pedophilia is a separate issue from gender identity ,sexual orientation and GBLT also it is incompatible to have sex offenders around the general mentally ill population. My therapist told me to stay out of H&E until the meeting.He even wrote a statement for me to take into the board meeting describing the clinical problem with sex offenders being put around the general mentally ill population..

The board meeting came, we were sitting out by the fountains in Mount Vernon at night it was summer and the director wanted to have it there, I think she was scared of my anger .I kept my cool but it wasn't easy.
She gave this bullshit about how H&E's goals were to accept everyone and be open and all sexual orientations.. She seemed to be in total denial about the DANGER the was putting H&E into ,She was just repeating the party line about acceptance. I gave her the note I explained I had to QUIT H&E if that bastard became a member because I cannot tolerate being around rapists and molesters talking about my issues, I told her assholes like him GAVE me my mental illness!! Often I had to go off and pace along the marble balustrades of the fountain to keep my cool and not clobber the director.And come back and speak more.
Well she ended up booting him. Thankfully.

But even in a group designed to help people can get infiltrated and fucked over by these monsters, The Director had way more training than I did and her denial made a safe place dangerous.

So if it can happen in a consumer run support group ..What if I was not there? Then that asshole would really have messed people up.

So if it can happen at a mental health GBLT support group, how many places and other ways can these monsters influence social groups, family dynamics ,society and politics directly or indirectly when this denial from adults who were abused as kids and can't face it who lack boundaries are interacting in society at large with people abused and not abused with various levels of awareness and boundaries, with sex offenders and psychopaths running around acting as if they are "normal people" too. How can anything meaningful with teeth get done to really help protect women and kids from these assholes if so many people in the general population are too defensive don't have boundaries,and won't quit playing make believe about this issue even when they have been victimized?

Death came by a monster who faked having little kitten's paws, that trauma has transformed my paws to the claws of a tiger. MY claws.

I tend to learn a huge amount from your posts when you take time to type things out like that. You have a rare gift for vividly showing what it's like to be in your shoes, and being able to relate that to larger issues in the world at the same time.

who were sexually abused, incested, raped, or otherwise victimized during their childhoods is very, very high.

Other sexually victimized children may not make it into the sex industry but quite often (percentges in the high 90s, IIRC) suffer such dysfunctional behaviors as promiscuity, teen pregnancy, drug and/or alochol abuse/addiction, failed marriages and/or inability to form solid intimate relationships, and all manner of other dysfunctions such as inability to hold a job, etc., etc., etc. Abuse of any kind -- sexual, physical, emotional (and in reality all abuse is emotional or has an emotional content of betrayal at the very least) -- is absolutely devastating to children and they end up paying for the abuse they suffered most of the rest of their lives. To a very large extent, abused children get literally ROBBED of their futures (and their presents!) and their potential by their abusers.

Yes, of course it's possible for abused children to grow up and beat the odds. It's possible for individual children to heal, and to not just overcome their trials and tribulations as children but TRIUMPH over them.

But it's not easy. And it's not common. And many, many lives are lost -- literally and figuratively -- in the process.

I hate the men who refuse -- for their own selfish purposes -- REFUSE to see what they are doing to women and to children by their own consumption of porn, including child porn, and their abuse of children. They put their own selfish and twisted needs above the needs of the children they are in contact with, and that is the very definition of abuse.

I wonder how many girls on those girls gone wild videos are victims of incest or pedophiles?

Well, considering how common it is, probably quite a few. But this brings up another subject, related, and that is the sexual abuse which is happening at the hands of the broader society at large these days: the early and premature sexualization of our children via "stars" like Brittney Spears. Now ThERE is a girl who was sexually abused and/or incested as a child. Mark my words. There'll be a day when that all comes out, and the world will be shocked but some of us will say, "We knew it all along."

Brittney has single-handedly (well, along with a few others like Christina Aguilar and probably also Janet Jackson among others) made being an overtly and salaciously sexual being not just "okay" for pre-teens, but admirable and something to emulate. And their mothers, brainwashed by a predatory patriarchal society, don't just allow it, some of them promote it. I find this beyond disgusting, beyond alarming. We are raising a whole generation of women for whom "self respect" has to do only or mainly with their life as a sexual being, a sexual toy, creatures who "know" that they should be sexually available to men, that that's their main purpose and value.

I worry about these girls, and these young women a LOT.

Older women as well-- well indoctrinated-- fall prey to being sexually attractive usually in the name of self-esteem. I had recent conversation regarding the globalization of the sex industry with a woman at work. We were on the same page opinion wise. Nothing radical, basic statistics and underlying causes.

She later told me "that she had botox injections and was ashamed to tell me because "I" was a feminist"

People who get to know me know because it's a part of me-- but work is work and no one needs to hear my opinions unless they ask or it's part a conversation. I do bring feminist issues up with younger co-workers, female and male. They tend to agree with basic feminist thought without ever thinking themselves as feminists. This is, of course not limited to young women and men. Since I'm a nurse, I have lots of exposure to other women, as well as men in a "nontraditional" male role.

Lord, that was NOT my intent to make her uncomfortable however I feel about botox. It was interesting how she felt I would immediately condemn a personal choice that what really wasn't my business. Anyway this woman--who is in her 30's somewhere, has an attractive and healthy appearance. Even, regular features. Clear skin. Even the wrinkles she is forming are laugh lines. In other words, in our culture she would be considered exceptionally attractive. Somewhere in her mind this isn't good enough, sexy enough.
I felt bad not that she had botox, but that she was conflicted enough to worry about my opinion in light of my feminism.

The young women who embrace sexually attractiveness as a measure of worth--monetary or otherwise-- are worth a lot of worry. The paradox in certain "sex positive" feminism is that when you are a product of a patriarchal system that tells you that IS what you're worth, a product for sexual pleasure, the attempts at sexually freedom and choice aren't really free, and they aren't really choices.

At the same time women are bombarded with messages about how they MUST look and act to be loved, socially acceptable, and even employable, they are also given deliberately distorted images of feminists. Call it the Strawfeminist - She is a strident, humorless, unattractive, man hater who is the antithesis of what is desirable in women. So even though most women agree with the priniciples of feminism, they are reluctant to embrace the term for themselves and have internalized certain assumptions about how an avowed feminist will react to them if they have complied with the demands of patriarchy in some way. It's very sad because I know that I tend to be much less judgmental of some of the choices women make in that regard compared to so-called traditional women. Not to say that I'm not judgmental at all but since becoming a feminist I tend to view things like breast augmentation in a cultural context.

Kind of an update, I arrived at work and two or three women were discussing this same person, evidently she has gotten a some sort of facial dermabrasion procedure. They seemed puzzled and judgmental. And of course, the person being discussed wasn't there which is just a kind of ugly gossip. And I wondered, will they think less of her? I don't.

One of the reasons I stay open about being a feminist is to fight what you call "Strawfeminist" To me, Feminist "issues" are about the human condition, there is no area where feminism doesn't touch. I've been giving myself a crash refresher course in Philosophy because it's been a while, and I recently subscribed to Hypatia (Feminist journal of Philosophy)

All those male philosophers. Trying to figure out the human condition and our workings, our motivations, all the while dismissing, misinterpreting or ignoring half the population. Until fairly recently of course.

I think men suffer under patriarchy because they'll never obtain full human potential under it. Many men can't or won't understand the sense of entitlement-- sexual or other-- they have. It can twist or damage them beyond repair, distract them, confuse them, lessen them. It leads to things like the original topic in this thread.

Feminists can see this I think, because being to me being a feminist means taking a good hard look at the world about you. Many of us were born of pain, and somehow became realists. No Disneyland for us, no fantasy world.

That doesn't mean we don't live and love and laugh in spite of everything. We have our physical or intellectual vanities just like anyone else. As far as physical attractiveness, it's how much importance or value placed is placed on it in context of culture as you said, rather than do we buy and use moisturizer or make up.(There was quite a fuss when Gloria Steinman got her hair frosted) Who cares? It's an inside job first anyway.

One of my bosses is a Fillipina women who says "I don't care if you don't think I'm pretty, but don't call me stupid" She's pretty enough, in my view but it's not her first personal value. And as you might expect, she has an incredible intellect.

Which is why it so irritates me when we are characterized as man haters. I don't have the type of unrealistic expectations of Knights In Shining Armor that lead to the kind of disappointment and bitterness I see so often in so-called traditional women.