For those that expressed interest in Pro-Choice group...

Hi!

Thank you SO MUCH for stating that you would like to be an active participant of a DU pro-choice group. Prior to taking our proposed DU group to Skinner, we do need a mission statement.

I'd love to see our mission statement be a community effort. Anyone care to offer any terms, words, statements, sentences to our mission statement? Don't be shy. This will be OUR group so make your voice heard and help with our statement.
(for an idea of what we need, click on the link at the top of this forum that says,"welcome to the DU feminists group.")

I'll be popping in here when I can over the weekend. Tuesday, I'll take our proposal to Skinner.

Now, let's write a mission statement for Pro-choice DU group! :hi:

NARAL Pro-Choice America Mission Statement
NARAL Pro-Choice America's mission is to develop and sustain a constituency that uses the political process to guarantee every woman the right to make personal decisions regarding the full range of reproductive choices, including preventing unintended pregnancy, bearing healthy children, and choosing legal abortion.

We could probably pull something from that: The mission of the DU Pro-choice group is to bring together like-minded progressives to collaborate on ideas to protect the right of every woman to make personal reproductive health decisions, ranging from contraception to legal abortion.

That's all I've got right now. The coffee hasn't kicked in yet. ;)

Acually your non-coffee mission statement doesn't sound half bad.

:applause:

Thanks, catburglar!

Anyone have any suggestions in terms of maintaining pro-choice discussions ONLY? None of this,"...when does a life begin" philosophical shit. :eyes: Or, "partial birth" crap...or forced birthing discussions of minors. Strictly pro-choice or don't post!

Of course, we can't say THAT, lol.

So suggestions on that aspect welcome!

See you all later! :hi:

agreed with the person who asked, why not use the Feminist Group -- or Women's Rights -- for this? What about using the energy you are suggesting to build a Research Forum thread to refer people to? A lot of the problem is plain ignorance. There is so much misinformation that needs to be challenged.

Establishing some boundaries for discussion really comes down to a basic respect for women and women's rights and possibly these existing areas could be used to mutual benefit?

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."


:hi:

clear definitions for the discussion per the mission statement, otherwise anything is apparently allowed to stand.

:hi:

Democratic Underground's Pro-Choice forum's mission is to develop and sustain a constituency that uses the political process to guarantee every woman the right to make personal decisions regarding the full range of reproductive choices, including preventing unintended pregnancy, bearing healthy children, and choosing legal abortion. This forum supports a woman's right to a private choice based upon medical consultation, a woman's conscious and those in which she chooses to confide. This forum supports Roe v. Wade and complete reproductive freedom.


I've never written a mission statement here at DU, but maybe something that encompasses these ideas, and something that basically says "pro-birthers, anti-choices, find someplace else to hang your hat."

I'm don't think I'd be very good at writing mission statements, at least I don't think so.

I don't want to argue about "the rights of the fetus" and all those "but what if" scenario's that are so degrading to women and women's ability to make personal health decisions.

...you write and express yourself so clearly. I always get something from your posts. ;) So you're underestimating yourself, in my opinion.

What you said here, could easily be used as part of our mission statement:

Quote:
I don't want to argue about "the rights of the fetus" and all those "but what if" scenario's that are so degrading to women and women's ability to make personal health decisions.

Having just dipped my toes in a completely vile thread in GD. Ugh

...please don't be concerned about having never written a mission statement here before. You are all doing great! Thanks so much for writing this! :thumbsup:

I just want this to be as much of a collective effort as possible. So that our statement incorporates aspects and ideas we all agree are important. I'll probably take what you've written, and what catburglar wrote (and other's additions if we get more), and put them together as our mission statement. I don't think there's any requirement regarding length.

An issue like pro-choice brings out such strong opinions, emotions, etc. I feel it's important that we are clear from the beginning that if people want to DEBATE, DISCUSS or SHARE their OPINIONS on choice--this won't be the place to do it. They can go do that sort of thing in the present choice forum or in General discussion.

And we can also add some aspects of what you said here:

Quote:
"pro-birthers, anti-choices, find someplace else to hang your hat."

I apologize for being repetitive, I just feel so strongly that we have something that protects us from that sort of thing. I'm reading a thread in GD right now with great interest. As it's bringing up some other aspects of the debate that we can try to address in our statement.

Someone just mentioned abortion as birth control. :(

It's simple and direct. :)

I apologize for the delay. For some reason, the last few nights that I've tried to access DU late at night I've experienced some sort of technical difficulties. :shrug: Not sure if the site is updating or if it's my system. :crazy:

I'm hoping to have some time in the next day or so to combine everyone's ideas into a mission statement and post here for approval. Again, apologies that this is taking me longer than I originally stated. I appreciate everyone's patience.

I'm eager and excited to submit our request to Skinner. If you haven't already, see threads about our group in women's rights forum and in choice. The response was great!

Hope everyone is having a great week!

Best,
bliss :hi:

what you think of this. I've incorporated catburglar and Kerry travelers statements into one, I've also embellished and detailed what many of us seem to dislike seeing in pro-choice, progressive discussions. Please let me know what you think of this. Are you satisfied with this statement? Would you like to see me move forward, and submit it to Skinner. Or is there anything you'd like to see added, deleted, etc. prior to submitting to Skinner?

Thanks to catburglar and Kerry travelers for such great ideas on what to include in our mission statement. :thumbsup:

Also thanks to ismnotwasm and others that have so freely shared what you want (and don't want to see) in our DU group. I appreciate the feedback and found it helpful in writing this. :hi:
*************************************************************************************************************************************

The mission of the DU Pro-choice group is to bring together like-minded progressive individuals, to collaborate on ideas to protect the right of every woman to make personal reproductive health decisions and choices. This forum supports a woman's right to privacy and choice based upon medical consultation, a woman's conscience and those in which she chooses to confide. The DU Pro-Choice group supports Roe v. Wade and complete reproductive freedom for women of all races, creeds, religions and backgrounds.

The DU pro-choice group is open to discussions that support the full range of women's reproductive health including:

1. The prevention of unintended pregnancy.

2. Appropriate legal contraceptive options and choices.

3. Bearing healthy children.

4. Legal abortion options and choices.

5. Legal emergency contraception options and choices in the event of contraceptive failure, assault and/or rape, or other situation necessitating the use of emergency contraception (i.e. including but not limited to the morning after pill).

6. Education and support for women faced with an unplanned pregnancy to help them make whatever decision they choose and deem best and most appropriate for their life.

Other areas that may come under discussion of DU's Pro-Choice group are:

1. How to support, protect and revitalize the Pro-choice movement from extinction (including the support of women's reproductive health clinics, programs that teach contraception and pregnancy prevention as opposed to abstinence only programs.)

2. How to support and safeguard women's reproductive rights and choices throughout a woman's life cycle--from the menstrual years to menopausal and post-menopausal years. Such discussions may include topics related to maintaining the availability of options available to women--such as birth control, contraception, compounded medications and bio identical compounded hormones (as opposed to pharmaceutical options that threaten women's health and in many cases their lives--such as Prempro and Premarin).

3. How to make options available to women living in areas where Pharmacists refuse to fill their contraception prescriptions based on the Pharmacist's personal moral belief system.

DU's Pro-Choice group utilizes honest, choice affirming language. As such, we are always known as Pro-choice.
Our opposition is always to be referred to as anti-choice(instead of pro-life).
Third trimester abortion procedures shall be called that, and NOT partial birth abortions.

If you need to refer to those that support a woman's right to make her own decisions about her body as any of the following: murderers, anti-life advocates, anti-lifers or any variation thereof this is NOT the group for you. But you may find support for your views in DU's Choice forum.

If you need to refer to those that would rather see women forced to give birth as any of the following: pro-life, right to lifers, life advocates, birth advocates or any variation thereof--this is NOT the group for you. Such language will NOT be tolerated here.

If you need and/or are interested in any of the following types of comments and discussions:
1. Philosophical and/or esoteric discussions about "when life begins"...
2. Definitions of "when life begins"...
3. Discussions of fetal rights over women's rights....
4. Any discussions whatsoever of the fetus and fetus rights....
5. Discussions that suggest in any way, shape or form that abortion is murder, or equating abortion with murder...

...this is absolutely NOT the discussion group for you, and sorry but your arguments, discussions and need to define abortion as evil, immoral, horrible, wrong and to pass judgment on women making their own choices are completely unwelcome here.

If you believe that anti-choice groups, people that picket abortion clinics and in some cases bomb them are wonderful, upstanding human beings doing God's (Jehovah's, Allah's, etc.)work this is NOT the group for you.

If you believe that parental notification bills are just swell, this is NOT the group for you.

If you think abortion is evil and/or women use it as a means of birth control, this is NOT the group to you.

If you need to use comments that denigrate women or those that happen to find themselves in the position of being pregnant as loose, sluts, whores, harlots, slutty, men trappers or any variation thereof this is not the group for you...save it, post it in Choice or in the General Discussion areas of DU where you will probably find others that share your low opinion of women.

If you want to discuss how sad you are that you know this girl and she's young, pregnant and you believe really should give birth--and you're looking for ways to convince her of this...AGAIN, this is NOT the group for you.

But if you do support our mission, agree to keeping abortion safe, legal and accessible for all women feel free to post here.
The DU Pro-Choice group supports the Mission of Naral Pro-choice America, Planned Parenthood and other organizations interested in protecting women's right to choose abortion, contraception and appropriate reproductive health care as deemed by her and her health care providers.

***********************************************************************************************************************************

I apologize for the length. I've included everything I can recall ever being discussed on DU in GD and in Choice, that made me want to hurl, punch a wall, or scream. I've also included a few things I've just heard over the years as a pro-choicer. I know that it covers a lot, and if this seems TOO MUCH, don't hesitate to let me know. I'll do my best to trim it down.

I figured the more descriptive the better. ;)

Note--I had an awful time trying to log in here today. Not sure why. In the event I don't respond to any comments right away it could be due to inability to get into DU. Hopefully, this won't be a problem.

I'm going to give it a few days for people to see this, as I'm guessing others are also having issues accessing the forum.

:hi:
best,
bliss

:applause:

and I'm glad this group will be forming! :hi:

I not only endorse it, I'm saving it to my hard drive as reference material. Very well done, my friend!

:yourock:

The length is probably necessary as the anti-choice folks go at it from every conceivable angle.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=217&topic_id=5366&mesg_id=5370

which is definitely valid. I don't want to feed their language monster. ;)

Also, I realized that I didn't say anything about protection from std's (sexually transmitted diseases). Which I can easily add in, and it won't increase the length.

Edited to add--I'll give some more time for as many as possible to see the statement and approve/amend it.
Later today or tomorrow (board server willing lol), I'll rewrite the statement with corrections, post it here and submit the link to Skinner.

Thanks for the great feedback everyone--I appreciate it! :hi:

I'm still interested and hope that this group will be accepted.

Thanks for all of your hard work and commitment to this very important issue.

Cheers :hug:

I support this in intent and the work looks great. It is also quite long.

The shorter point would be -- on a board with Rules based on "respect," why is this even necessary?




That's a question, not an argument. Maybe there are plenty of good reasons.

However, I've said this before, about the FG and WW proposals. How far deep do we need to go to have open and "safe" discussion and is that really beneficial to us, to discussion, to DU, to Democrats, to Progressives ...........................?

I know GD is GD and one shouldn't expect, well, much-- but the level of ignorance proudly displayed there -- even after the SCOTUS "PB abortion" vote and the CONSTANTLY DETERIORATING PRESENCE AND VISISBILITY OF WOMEN AND WOMEN'S ISSUES IN THE MAIN FORUMS.....

IS an issue.

:hi:

But some of the anti-choice folks are women.
I have a hard time with the distorted logic, the misinformation, the outright lies found on nearly any "open" thread on abortion (or any Woman related topic for that matter) A pro-choice forum where information can be gathered and shared, a "safe" place to retreat to when one feels overwhelmed, frustrated, hurt or even frightened by the open threads-- I like that idea.

We know we can't "rally the troops" to any topic in GD. But it's good to have some relevant baseline information available, and that's what I would hope for in a pro-choice forum. There are Countries where women have no choice whatsoever, those type of topics can be brought up and discussed. There are little known legal facts that vary from state to state, for instance, in the state of Washington, a fetal death at 20 weeks needs to be reported to the ME/Coroner's office.

Personally, I'm TRYING to get a little more involved, (I'm a much more forceful presence in real life) but I've never been completely comfortable with the anonymity of folks on the internet. I dislike, and hardly ever have the time for the back and forth spats in GD.

I'll try a little harder.


:hi:

...which is why I suggested the forum. I am tired of seeing pro-choice women (and men) belittled and mistreated, and it is my hope to have a place to get away from that as ismnotwasm has stated. :)

Also, I used to be quite the GD warrior as many can attest to. I choose to utilize my energy in other ways at this time. I'm not knocking anyone that wants to do that.

I tired long ago of arguing points with anonymous strangers on the internet. They are free to believe whatever they choose to--as am I. I don't want to be talked out of, coerced or debated out of my beliefs. I would prefer to share information with like-minded individuals.

I don't think of this as "going underground." I think of this as making a choice, ironically. ;)

I see my options for discussion about such issues are limited on the main boards, even in "women's areas." As such, I'm attempting to create a space where we can and be free from the other energy. I'm not running from anyone, or being chased out. I am choosing to create a space where no one has to "fight" to be heard or understood. People either get it or they don't. I'm choosing to spend time and energy on those that do get it.

and trust you know I support this and am not trying to wrench it up. I appreciate the feedback about the reasons this is necessary.

And I respect you viewing it as a choice and better use of time and energy..... It also is a capitulation to an atmosphere in the Big Forums that doesn't support various voices in the larger community. If women/feminists are "marginalized" further and crucial issues (and opportunities to improve the level of informed opinion) fall away...................... then what?

I never wanted to be -- and am not suggesting that any of us -- be a "GD warrior." I was shocked when I came here at how antagonistic and prevalent the bullying of women and women's issues was -- because the DU Rules suggested something quite different -- and THAT is why it became something I gave my energy to. After the bogus SCOTUS abortion ruling, the only threads I saw in the Big Forums were trivial, uniformed, jokey type OPs .... the informed feminist voices were somewhere else and just. didn't. bother. That's a shame.

So all in all, taking a cue from DU Rules -- and given what IMHO are CRUCIAL connections b/w women's issues and broader issues and the health of Dems/DU/progressives -- the reason that I am asking this question (like I prior to Women's World and the FG :evilgrin: ) is that if we retreat from the Big Forums due to the antagonism of the willfully ignorant, then it "cheapens the quality of discourse for everyone else."



Civility

Personal Attacks, Civility and Respect


The administrators of Democratic Underground are working to provide a place where progressives can share ideas and debate in an atmosphere of mutual respect. Despite our best efforts, some of our members often stray from this ideal and cheapen the quality of discourse for everyone else.

to dealing with the sick misogynist fucks on the rest of this site when it comes to discussing these issues. I'm so tired of them. I'm done.

I believe we can ultimately only change ourselves. Internet boards are so random. We really have no idea that who we are talking to is who they say they are. Every blue moon, I'll get a random pm from someone saying something I said on the boards affected them. That's cool, and I appreciate that but it's also a rare occurence.

One day, after going on and on fighting with someone on the board I looked up and realized I had spent a pretty huge chunk of my time doing so. I mourned the loss of my precious time and energy and decided...no more.

Sure, sometimes I still post something that I probably could have kept to myself. I'm human and slip up. But for the most part, I don't get into it anymore. Just not worth it to me. :hi:

I do worry that creation of safe spaces can lead to the further marginalization of women and women's issues in the main forum. I can definitely foresee future instances of "why don't you take that to the women's rights/feminist/pro-choice forum?" in GD. But right now this is the best solution to an ongoing problem with misogyny and disrespect on DU. I've only been a member of this board for a year and I've seen efforts to address the sexism either fail or be met with derision.

As for the abortion issue, I'm tired of constantly having to go back to Square One with people. Having to explain to them that yes, women are actually people. Yesterday there were 2 threads about abortion that devolved into flamewars where some condescending schmuck would dismiss that concept as not addressing the "real issue", which was of course what he decided it was. And in both cases it was some justification of male ownership of women. I'm not afraid to mix it up with the Sperm Preservation Society in GD from time to time but I welcome a pro-choice group because it will enable us to talk about strategies and solutions without having to deal with the aggravation.

:rofl:


edit---now if I could only spell :eyes:

:thumbsup:

I respect the need and support the effort to create a "a pro-choice group because it will enable us to talk about strategies and solutions without having to deal with the aggravation."

And you nailed the concern:

"I do worry that creation of safe spaces can lead to the further marginalization of women and women's issues in the main forum."

The issues and the respect for women are vital for the success of Democrats and the progress of Progressives, which is why it is worth considering what atmosphere "in general" we are left with; when the level of intolerance forces all sorts of subsets of the community out of the Big Forums.

You left no stone unturned. :-) :yourock: :applause:

:hi::hug:

submitted for approval. :hi:

*************************************************************************************************************************************

The mission of the DU Pro-choice group is to bring together like-minded progressive individuals, to collaborate on ideas to protect the right of every woman to make personal reproductive health decisions and choices. This forum supports a woman's right to privacy and choice based upon medical consultation, a woman's conscience and those in which she chooses to confide. The DU Pro-Choice group supports Roe v. Wade and complete reproductive freedom for women of all races, creeds, religions and backgrounds.

The DU pro-choice group is open to discussions that support the full range of women's reproductive health including:

1. The prevention of unintended pregnancy.

2. Education about and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases (std's).

3. Appropriate legal contraceptive options and choices.

4. Bearing healthy children.

5. Legal abortion optons and choices.

6. Legal emergency contraception options and choices in the event of contraceptive failure, assault and/or rape, or other situation necessitating the use of emergency contraception (i.e. including but not limited to the morning after pill).

7. Education and support for women faced with an unplanned pregnancy to help them make whatever decision they choose and deem best and most appropriate for their life.


Other areas that may come under discussion of DU's Pro-Choice group are:

1. How to support, protect and revitalize the Pro-choice movement from extinction (including the support of women's reproductive health clinics, programs that teach contraception and pregnancy prevention as opposed to abstinence only programs.)

2. How to support and safeguard women's reproductive rights and choices throughout a woman's life cycle--from the menstrual years to menopausal and post-menopausal years. Such discussions may include topics related to maintaining the availability of options available to women--such as birth control, contraception, compounded medications and bio identical compounded hormones (as opposed to pharmaceutical options that threaten women's health and in many cases their lives--such as Prempro and Premarin).

3. How to make options available to women living in areas where Pharmacists refuse to fill their contraception prescriptions based on the Pharmacist's personal moral belief system.

DU's Pro-Choice group utilizes honest, choice affirming language. As such, we are always known as Pro-choice.

Our opposition is always to be referred to as anti-choice(instead of pro-life).

ID&E procedures shall be called that, and NOT partial birth abortions, nor third trimester abortions (as they are frequently not performed during the third trimester of a pregnancy, as they are generally a rare EMERGENCY procedure).

If you need to refer to those that support a woman's right to make her own decisions about her body as any of the following: murderers, anti-life advocates, anti-lifers or any variation thereof this is NOT the group for you. But you may find support for your views in DU's Choice forum.

If you need to refer to those that would rather see women forced to give birth as any of the following: pro-life, right to lifers, life advocates, birth advocates or any variation thereof--this is NOT the group for you. Such language will NOT be tolerated here.

If you need and/or are interested in any of the following types of comments and discussions:
1. Philosophical and/or esoteric discussions about "when life begins"...
2. Definitions of "when life begins"...
3. Discussions of fetal rights over women's rights....
4. Any discussions whatsoever of the fetus and fetus rights....
5. Discussions that suggest in any way, shape or form that abortion is murder, or equating abortion with murder...

...this is absolutely NOT the discussion group for you, and sorry but your arguments, discussions and need to define abortion as evil, immoral, horrible, wrong and to pass judgment on women making their own choices are completely unwelcome here.

Other indications you are in the wrong group:

If you believe that anti-choice groups, people that picket abortion clinics and in some cases bomb them are wonderful, upstanding human beings doing God's (Jehovah's, Allah's, etc.)work this is NOT the group for you.

If you believe that parental notification bills are just swell, this is NOT the group for you.

If you think abortion is evil this is NOT the group to you.

If you need to use comments that denigrate women or those that happen to find themselves in the position of being pregnant as loose, sluts, whores, harlots, slutty, men trappers or any variation thereof this is not the group for you. Negative, denigrating comments about women will not be tolerated here.

But if you do support our mission, agree with the ideal of keeping abortion safe, legal and accessible for all women--feel free to post here.

The DU Pro-Choice group supports the Missions of Naral Pro-choice America, Planned Parenthood and other organizations interested in protecting women's right to choose abortion, contraception, health education, prevention of std's (sexually transmitted diseases) and appropriate reproductive health care as deemed by her and her health care providers.

:)

I've been off-line dince April 24th (server/modem problems) so I didn't get to banter back and forth. But really, I can't think of anything I could have added. This is wonderful and you totally freakin' rock for putting this together!

Thanks!

kt

:blush: Thank you.

:pals::hug::hi:

...all the links to the threads where members expressed interest in the Pro-choice group. So now, it's just a matter of waiting to hear back if the group is approved.

Thank you all for expressing interest and helping me with the mission statement! Here's hoping all goes through! ;) :bounce: :hi:

Did I miss the announcement? :shrug:

Skinner. At this point, I haven't heard anything. :shrug:

I've been really busy of late, so I asked everyone to express interest to the admins. At that time (a few weeks ago)they were still working on a decision. Since then, we've had a few system issues with outages and updates--so their attention may be divided right now.

Please, don't be discouraged contact them if you'd like to see the group go forward. I think sometimes when the only person contacting them is the one to apply for the group, they are concerned that there won't be much activity and/or interest in the group. So please let them know you want to see it happen! :hi:

I emailed Skinner a few weeks ago (around the time they were contemplating a "pro-life" group too :eyes:). At that time, Skinner said they should have a decision in a few days or so, and to remind him if nothing was announced. Then DU started having its server issues and I figured the Admins were too busy to worry about our little group. My time here has been somewhat limited since then, so I wasn't sure whether I'd missed the big announcement. I'll make a note and email Skinner tomorrow. :hi:

:hi: Enjoy!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=396