You've been played, and you don't even know it.

Raw Story might be guilty of sorry journalism, but they excell at manipulation.

Do you think that they posted that article by Melinda whatsername just to demonstrate their own fairness and equality toward all points of view?

Hell no. They posted it because they knew that DU has long been the pool from which they draw their click-pennies, and they knew that you guys would lose your minds over it. They knew it would be divisive, yet they posted it any way. Ironically, they have one of DU's own "icons" defending them with his own thread, even after he questioned them about how they knew that his writer was about the break the target letter story, and lecturing us that we all should support Raw Story, so as not to be divisive.

We keep hearing, "Bad publicity is publicity," and "but they are a good left news source."

Rubbish. You've been played. Every single time you engage in battle over that "controversial" article, you drive more people to their site, and them more people get pissed off, and the vicious circle never ends.

I'm not a Christian. I'm not an atheist. I'm just someone who hates to see anyone capitalizing on division at DU. Raw Story is doing that. Wake up, DUers.

to...?

All of the division over the silly atheist op-ed.

but i do agree with your post

though i didnt agree with you post suggesting i might wanted to promote pedophiles, wink

If you saw my posts in that thread, I asked the same question of everyone who watched it.

And I still wonder--if the show is a deterrant or if it promotes that sickness. I do agree that it's shoddy entertainment. I'll be glad to go back to that thread and talk about it with you.

i only brought it up cause, well hey, was kinda offensive and i was replying to you on this thread about this post. that is all. felt it necessary i say it outloud. along with saying outloud i agree with this post of yours

I totally saw that original thread and purposely avoided all threads concerning the same. Looked like nonsense and blatant flame bait to me!

So many think they have the right to criticize small news organizations. Well, they have the right, but anyone that knows anything about media at that level is going to laugh. You don't know unless you've been there.

I'm pretty weary of the division in general around here lately. Tensions are high, no question. But there seems to be a lot of shit stirring around here and that gets annoying very quickly.


So much huff and puff over nothing, imho. Don't we have bigger fish to fry?

WAY bigger fish to fry! And the shit-stirring, and then continuations of the shit-stirring are pretty annoying. Let's get on with getting our country back.

A well-respected news organization known for its daring investigative journalism publishes a hateful screed by a prominent auther that calls for purging atheists from the Democratic party, and it's nothing? Why, I'll have you know--

Wait, you're right. This is RAW STORY we're talking about, not a "well-respected news organization known for its daring investigative journalism". And the author is a nobody who can't write her way out of a paper bag. What was I thinking?

(Still, fuck Raw Story for running the piece, anyway. Assholes. Funny thing is, I had no problem with them until they did this, and now I think they're unethical shitbags.)

The left's own rawstory whackjobs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1027369&mesg_id=1027369

In defense of Raw Story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1035510&mesg_id=1035510

Raw Story Columnist Attacks Atheists and Secularists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1007330&mesg_id=1007330

I don't visit RS, the teaser headlines made me lose respect for them and their cheap way to get the clicks. I'm sure there are a lot of great talents there, but I just don't like that kind of slick shit so no matter how great their writers may be, is washed away by used car salesman cheap tactics on me.

I go to AP wire directly or to foreign papers.. :)and of course to DU..we analyze better than most places :)

i did see those threads and while i'd consider myself an agnostic i think the whole article was off base and insulting.

on that site isn't really that valuable to me. Other matters, I absolutely do value your input.

And then people apologized to me for attacking me for speaking my mind.

This is my opinion. I have the right to post my opinion, about public figures, at DU. It upsets people to the point that they either attack me or insult me. That doesn't bother me. I won't be intimidated out of saying what I think--no one should be.

On the rest of you post--yes, we agree on lots of things. On this we don't. But I'm not going to attack you because we disagree on a few issues.

This is starting to seem like Bev Harris all over again, isn't it?

Yes.

Just so you know, if I did attack you back when I was stupidly defending that freeper shitbag, please accept my apologies.

I was so, so wrong about Harris. What a waste of human life she turned out to be!

As with anything, follow the money. You'll never see Raw Story denying they're making money off the DU, instead they just try to kill the messenger.

Larisa just today called me a five year-old that types like a monkey.

This is just like the Bush Administration saying the Iraq War is all about Freedom when we all know it's about oil and driving oil prices higher.

Raw Story says it's all about progressive journalism, when in fact it's about driving as much traffic and advertising click-throughs as possible.

If it were really about progressive journalism, why aren't they promoting Buzzflash, DailyKos, Bartcop, TalkLeft, Firedoglake, Atrios, AmericaBlog, and others? Of course, they DO quote material from all the of the above sites, but they use it as part of their own content with sometimes a link to the original source added at the bottom. This way, they keep you in their site.

And also if they were really about progressive journalism, they wouldn't be afraid to open their books publicly. They're not going to show you how much they're making off of you.

that Larisa got all pissed off when Ben M from Young Turks challenged one of her assertions....it was yesterday's show, I believe...Man, it sounded like someone who'd been caught in a lie. I was doing something else while listening and my ears perked-up....

I've always believed that Ann Coulter's Op/Eds are designed to piss off the left if they're taken seriously. Many people like Coulter, and there's just as many who are so outraged that they pay attention to her.

I see the same thing happening here. If you get wound up, you'll either go back and see what's written next or make it such a topic of discussion that you'll indirectly increase their readership when others become curious.

Because I didn't go read the story.

:applause:

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't lumped into all the "you's". :thumbsup:

I did post my own thread of atheists and agnostics last week but I did so for my own purposes and thoughts.

without considering input from someone whose sole interest is sensationalism and profiting off of the division.

:hi:

Raw Story is increasingly like some sleazy supermarket tabloid, where the teasers on the cover bear little relation to the stories inside but a dab of invented controversy keeps the readers picking it up.

However in this instance I felt they went way over the top and needed to be called out. But I essentially agree with your analysis, though reluctantly. That advertising revenue was foremost on Raw Story's minds was evident in that Avery Walker complained about bloggers linking directly to the article (thus bypassing those lucrative front page ads) in question and that he admitted to publishing Ms. Barton's hate speech despite knowing it to be crap because he wanted to be "provocative". I say reluctantly because in the past Larisa Alexandrovna has done some fine investigative journalism for Raw Story and I feel they have great potential, but the tabloid style and willingness to sacrifice integrity and insult a large swathe of the left taints them beyond an acceptable degree. One could hope Raw Story would learn from this, apologize and regroup to fulfill their potential, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think you've nailed it.

the ratings up. What was that Howard Stern quote? "The more they hate me, the more they listen" or something like that!

I wish I could tell you more, but you'll have to visit the site to get more on this breaking news. If the story isn't posted when you get there, just keep clicking back every so often and it will eventually turn up. Big story. Honest. Click. Now.

uninteresting to me.

Apparently, it IS a game to Raw Story - the game of getting as much advertising dollars as possible.

I went once, when it started, never again. Too busy, too many damn ads. Now, though...publishing a hateful call to eradicate atheists from the Dem party is just nuts.

You're acting as if Raw Story has no integrity, while other news sources of the same caliber do, when they do the exact same thing to draw people in. That's the game. I'm not buying it.

All businesses use gimmicks to attract attention. That's life.

I consider it unethical and reprehensible, and I don't stay silent when one of our alleged own supports this shit, then insults and lies to the critics who called them on it.

I do, in fact, consider any group that does this lacking in integrity.

they have wasted alot of time.

There are important things happening right now, in our very own congress. This administration is pushing Iran big time and our congress is going along with it. We should be focusing on stopping this administration before they kill again...but lately there seems to be so much division and time wasting in the blogosphere.

I can only imagine what good would come about if we all focused our energy on removing this administration from power immediately! We must force congress to do their jobs. Even congressman Conyers must be held to account. It is time to stop bullshitting us on illegal wiretapping investigations maybe someday. It is time to introduce articles of impeachment now! Bush broke the law and admitted it. We need to collectively put pressure on anyone and everyone who can do something about this!

Sometimes I think perhaps some of these blogs who make money aren't really trying to stop this administration because they make money writing about them, and Bush makes it so easy. But there are people dying every day. It isn't funny and it isn't about making a living. We need to put an end to misery NOW!

demonstrated how lame Ruppert's positions can be, in particular on the peak oil scam.

Ruppert is kind of going drudge with the hysteria and whining for attention.

He's kind of selling out and he's not always right. This hysteria over religion is bait, for sure.

Hence, my new improved sigline.

I changed mine after being attacked.

Then I was attacked again.



Sigh...and I do SO hate to upset people.

:evilgrin:

but i agree with what you say about them and sorry journalism and manipulation. that's one reason i don't pay too much attention to the "breaking from raw story:.........." stuff anymore.

Are you attempting to close the divisions on DU?

Are you going to drive less traffic to RS?

To which "you guys" are you referring when you state that they knew "you guys would lose your minds over it"?

Haven't you become one of those "guys" by starting a new thread on this subject?

Maybe quite a few of us should "wake up" to the fact that are many ways to be divisive on DU.

"Are you attempting to close the divisions on DU?"

I really think she is. If the Raw Story threads and posts were no longer being posted to DU, it would be just as peaceful as it was after Bev Harris got kicked off the DU. It was so nice for a while here after she left...

If Raw was banned, YOU wouldn't be making posts like this - and I know YOU in particular have posted many postings in their defense. Conversely, I wouldn't be posting against them. It would work out for both of us really well, I think. We could deal with issues like voter fraud, environmentalism, alternative fuels, instead of telling each other how wrong we are.

Ultimately, they're stirring up all kinds of hate and divisiveness here, and sometimes I wonder if they're paid disruptors.

WHY does Raw Story constantly need to use DU as their own PR service? They have their own website - there is no other site as blatant as RS that mines traffic from the DU. This is a form of theft - they're systematically directing DU's users away from their site.

...way it should be. People who are trying to shut down RS, and any other media outlet, is doing exactly what we claim the NeoCons are doing.

If you want peaceful surroundings, try your local library, or go for a nice long hike in the woods.

They have a website, and that's where they belong.

This is Democratic Underground. Not Raw Story Underground.

I try to be nice to you, and you tell me to take a hike. Thanks.

you haven't been here from the start have you? I just clicked on your little file and you've been here after the start..

Lots of people have disagreed, and there have been flamewars, but the DIRECTION of the DU wasn't involved. We weren't ALL being SHOVED by a whole lot of DUrs AT a Specific site. Unless you count Bev Harris, and that got so bad that they TOMBSTONED her, twice I think.

No, when it gets too damned crazy someone hits the road, what I worry about is the WRONG people hitting the road. Those that offer CHOICES, and critical thinking skills. The DU gets really crazed when the smart people flee or shut down, then the screwbals take over, the Whackjobs (oops, didn't mean to go there, sorry), and refuse to subscribe to anyone else's thoughts. No Quarter.

Why do you feel you have to constantly stick up for a single site? Is it because that's the site that either everyone complains about or everyone extolls the virtues of?

Why is it only ONE SITE? Why do people NOT beat you over the head if you say, "Buzzflash sucks"? (I work with them and they DON'T)

Where are the "THIS SITE IS SCREWING UP THE DU" or "I Hate what this site is doing?" other than Raw Story Threads?

WHERE? And WHY?

There Must be a problem. Will you admit that?

Never heard of 'em--- They're obviously not a progressive site.

I'm behind you a 100%-- I found one post here particularly significant, the one about Avery (their publisher) crapping his pants because all the Blogs they'd whipped into a frenzy were going DIRECTLY to the page and bypassing all the Big Click Ads on the front page, I've been complaining about them MINING the DU like used car salesmen from the start, but I missed that tactic...

Who in their right mind let's someone write a story that SEPARATES the liberals over RELIGION or supposed Lack There Of? And Esp a story that appears to have been written by a gradeschooler? I firmly do not believe that they ARE left, they are Gold Diggers - and what they are doing is destroying the Peace and Deep thinking that's the usual Norm around here, and from what I've seen and read, even the new stuff about Leopold (which still doesn't add up), they are one motley crew over there, lot of anger, seems to SPILL OVER to this site. Misdirected anger.

I worry about the DU being suckered. It's like a carnival, where it all SEEMS exciting, and they are the carnival barkers, "SEE THE ONE EYED REPUBLICAN" and the marks dutifully line up to be fleeced. They think they're getting their money's worth but in the end they leave the glittering lights with lighter pockets and some cheap plastic toy or doll made in China. Like an Auction where people get all caught up in that moment, and being USED for just that purpose, and before they know it's over they bought something they don't want, and no one has any sympathy for them.. If someone tells them they've been duped by the Carnival or the Auction they get MAD, of course they would.

Stay with me, there's a Parable in here somewhere.. just like the guy that shovels a room full of HORSESHIT all day, convinced that there MUST be a Pony in HERE SOMEWHERE..feels like Optimism..

What really took advantage of them was THEMSELVES. The hardwiring inside of them likes shiny things, big lights, big stories, fairy tales, excitement. To some folks it seems harmless and in a way it is, go ahead, get the rush, have the thrill of the Raw Story Barker screaming, "BUSH TO BE IMPEACHED TODAY!" - you know it can't be true, but it's fun anyway.. and if you want to believe in ONE SITE, or the Invisible Man in the Clouds you should have that right.

But to those of us who work HARD to get the facts straight so that people who want the whole truth can find it out easily it's ANNOYING, or to have someone else USE YOUR WORK without revealing WHO did all the Hard WORK or Investigation, well, that's Low. And if we don't WANT to ride the snake, we shouldn't HAVE TO, we have BETTER things to do, accomplishments to accomplish, and we really don't have TIME to argue over who likes WHAT. But they get very demanding, some give up because they don't have the time or energy to compete and argue, or they miss the old days where it wasn't like that. Well, maybe when Bev Harris was here, stirring the pot.

Plus it's like the circus people MOVED IN WITH US. The lizard man is leaving scales all over the place, the Bearded Lady is trimming her beard over the kitchen sink, the fat lady won't let us have our favorite chair, and there's a BIG ELEPHANT in the LIVING ROOM :) No one wants to talk about the ELEPHANT, because no one knows how to get it out the door without damaging the house, and some people would rather just pretend it's not there, but they really can't, because all of the IMPORTANT things that need to get done simply can't be done..

The ones that SEE the elephant scream that they want it out, it's crapping everywhere and busting up all the china and furniture, but those that LIKE the excitement of having a real live elephant in the house, something they can be proud of, tell the rest of them to SHUT THE HELL UP. Besides, they've been working with the elephant and teaching it tricks, like SITTING ON YOU until you're flat, which they found out the elephant LOVES to DO. So it's best not to say anything.

But the elephant is more like a Trojan horse, because IF you complain the side opens up and dozens of creatures, all claws and teeth, rip everything apart in the room, especially those that complained, to make sure they don't open their mouth again. Those that like the Elephant just Laugh, and say things like, "GET OVER IT" which sounds so familiar doesn't it?

Something Bush would say, once he's STOLEN the election and can't be kicked out. Something that the Germans were told when they could no longer change govts. Something a used car guy tells you when you bring the LEMON you bought from him back to his store.

The whole time everyone is preaching TOLERANCE. Which for some is code that means, "Everyone else shut the hell up, or roll over so I get what *I* want.." To others it means, giving in some to get along. Others it means ROLL OVER and they do it, no questions asked. They don't want the teeth and claws to come back at them.

Or the Elephant might sit on them. :)

If people want to join the circus, they should, but it doesn't give them the right to bring Home and Elephant that everyone else has to feed, water and wash all day.

I don't personally have time to Click on threads all day that say, "MSNBC/CNN/CBS/ABC/FOX SAY ROVE TO BE INDICTED TODAY" (oh, btw, to me TODAY means TODAY - not next week or a month from now, then heard crowing about how it was all predicted, when it is as obvious as Gravity), and then find out that like the last 10 clicks I made all roads lead to RS.

I had a post go bye bye when I mentioned that the rules say you must post the Link FROM THE ORIGINATING SITE, and it's right there in black and white. I can't help but wonder, WHY?

Please. There has to be at least one person who knows the difference. Anyone?

Editorials are written and endorsed by the editorial board of the publication that runs them.

Opinion pieces are opinion columns written that appear on the editorial page that can be written by anyone.

Columns can be political or otherwise; Dave Barry writes a humor column.

An article is supposed to be informative. Usually researched, facts presented, some opinions may be presented. The Nation magazine runs a lot of articles. Someone could write an article about their travel experiences abroad. That's an article.

A News article is supposed to be factual. Only the facts are supposed to be represented: the who, what, where, when, why and how. No editorializing. That would make it an opinion piece. You should always have at least two sources which you quote to validate the article.

is supposed to be assembled by a team or a single reporter who has done the work of FINDING the facts, not just rearranging other articles found on the web, or is such a thing a Plagiarism DEAD because of the Web? (Great Idea for an OPEd, easier to write)

It was a big deal when I went to high school and College, if you used or stole someone else's WORK, and it's Work when actually writing an article, finding your own sources, etc - then the teacher would toss your paper in your face and flunk you.

But they Pay for the service, no? Nothing wrong with that.. I assume there's some attribution to be given for the use?

You're exactly right. Newspapers, websites, and other news outlets that use a wire services pay a LOT for those articles. One organization I was involved with paid for AP stories, and we were charged $2000 per month - even though we had no traffic. That was the intro rate, it stepped up from there...

This is why you're always reading stories how Raw Story "learned" this or that from some other news source with the original article rewritten. I've never looked that close at Raw Story to see if they actually used copyrighted material verbatim. Since they're a for-profit organization, hopefully they know better and don't do that.

Never understood why anyone here even bothers posting from it; or why our "icon" defends it as real "news."

see what is going on. However, I think that in the long run, those of us attacked by the HATE SPEECH there will stop going entirely, after this has died down; and they will LOSE viewership. I know that is what I intended to do.

nt

man that would have been something.

it's not the divisiveness or the capitalizing on it that bugs me. it's the falseness of the original thesis, which I did not believe was sincere or authentic from the start

And Leopold is certainly a part of Raw Story, yes?

Okay then WHY has Truthout said that Rove/Luskin RECEIVED a Target Letter (on April 26th) using the term "TODAY", and according to many lawyers/prosecutors (like those at Firedoglake, and Volcanoe Jen's report) an Indictment is handed down WITHIN HOURS of the sending of a Target Letter..

WHERE is this Target Letter, what is going on? Even Raw Story at this point is quoting the NYTIMES article that says WEEKS. Do THEY stand behind Leopold and will Truthout print a RETRACTION?

What has been said is either untrue or a mistake. Which is it?

Anybody? Will Pitt? Remember, you said this was CONCRETE.

"Rubbish. You've been played. Every single time you engage in battle over that "controversial" article, you drive more people to their site, and them more people get pissed off, and the vicious circle never ends."

Seems to me that everytime someone posts a response to a response to a response to that article it keeps the spin on this non-story going.

See, watch, I'm gonna give it yet another spin by kicking this thread.

Kicking and watching it spin.

(p.s. I have very little concern over divisive debates concerning the existence of God or his impact in our daily lives. Someone else's belief or disbelief has no affect on me what so ever. So if you don't mind, I'll also continue to read RawStory because they have done a good job over the past few years and I appreciate thier efforts. If they choose to print opinion's on God that I disagree with I'll probably just turn back to the political commentary and news. But that's just me. You are free to read what ever you wish.)

Well said!