Racist comment or joke? What would you do?

What would you say if you were black and you heard one of your co-workers say, "well, I'm going to go home now and get the knot in my rope ready," while the guy laughs and says, "I'm just kidding." This happened at work the other day and my husband overheard this guy say this to a good friend of his who is black. My husband asked his friend how he felt about this and he said, "oh, I know he's just kidding." I told my husband that not only is this despicable, but it is against the law. These guys have been working together before my husband got there so I know they are friends, but I still think to "joke" like this is beyond the pale.
Like hell it's a joke. I am beyond pissed. :mad:

Edited for clarity:> Okay, this older white guy, always makes racist comments in the form of "time to go home and get my noose tigher," or "it's gonna be a cross-burning night tonight," or something to that matter. He says these comments in passing to my husband's friend who is black. He says these things as a "joke." The other day was the first time my husband had heard the rope comment and asked his friend about these comments. His friend, said, "oh, I know he's just kidding." This is an ongoing jab to this guy in the form of joking.

Second editing: Maybe it would have been made clearer if the guy drove off with his confederate flag waving from his antenna.

NGU.

since the guy is black.

to understand what the guy is saying.

or how it is racist? Is there some context missing?

I have a black colleague and we tease each other all the time..but privately.

It would seem that a joke about lynching is anything but funny, but you don't know what has gone on between them before.

not racism.

What am I missing?

Sounds like someone had a rough a day or something along those lines.
:shrug:

of these two. This could have been just one side of shit that goes between the two guys all the time....

Sorry, but your husband wasn't privvy to the etnire thing nor the context, ergo, he and you cannot make any sort of judgement.

There's another word for "overhearning". It's called "eavesdropping".

while he was talking to his friend. They were outside so the whole damn parking lot heard it!!!!!

Some questionable jokes are okay among friends, imho. A joke about lynching isn't funny no matter what.

and there are funny jokes about lynching. If you don't believe me, recall what the Big Dog's favorite movie is/was: Blazing saddles. Comedy is making light of things, even horrible things. And if people are close enough to do so, more power to them. Also, does this offend you because you are black, or it just generally offensive to you? Besides, it's not illegal, I assume you are referring to the discrimination laws, and this is not discrimination. It's also not harassment, based on your own description. If your husband felt harassed by it, that's another thing, but most harassment statutes require a target, and I have never seen a case of peripheral harassment, although some circumstances could bring that about(hanging a poster up that is offensive).

However, my standard reply, sheeeesh!, seems to fit here. Live and let live. It makes the world a more enjoyable place. At best, they should try and keep their private conversation more private so it doesn't offend people, but that's just a polite thing, not a legal thing.

others were walking--not too damn private. Secondly, your comment about,
"there are funny jokes about lynching," goes beyond the pale.

Do you, like me, Bill Clinton, and ninety nine percent of film critics, find it funny? Mel Brooks finds humor in the Nazi's lynchings, even the Spanis inqusition. And that's a good thing.

And as far as "Blazing Saddles" being one of his favorites, you're wrong. It's "Ray," and he said that in one of his most recent interviews, not that it really matters:eyes:

Oh, and BTW, I hate Blazing Saddles, not because of anything but the sole reason of it being a dum movie.

is a movie. This is real life. Thousands of blacks have been lynched in this country while others stood around and watched in joy. Other blacks have been intimidated by the threat of lynching. Joking about lynching is disgusting.

I am black and I will say emphatically that I do not ever wish to hear such a "joke" directed at me. It is nothing but racism. I find that kind of joke terribly offensive. Lynching is nothing to joke about. There are some black people who still are reluctant to express their feelings about racism to a white person, particularly people with whom they must work. They try to avoid tension on the job. The person making the joke has problems if he can find joking about such a horrible thing as lynching to be fun. Just reading about this makes me very angry. There are certain things that just are not acceptable. Joking about lynching is one of them.

"Because of the historical connotations in this country, a white man making a black man the receiver of his lynching jokes is not recommendable." I'm sure you're aware that lynching is not a race-specific term even in America, and has been used quite frequently against whites, too. It's possible to joke about anything, including lynchings, and I reserve the right to do so. I would not have done it in the situation described above though, but as others have already pointed out it's impossible to know the extent of their relationship, so why speculate?

these so-called "connotations" are accurate facts and as far as joking about lynchings, well, that really goes beyond the pale.

I've read your other posts and ignored them, but this one speaks loud and clear to what you really feel:eyes:

Well, believe what you will, I feel no need to explain further or rectify myself, I didn't intend to flame. Read my post below if you wish. I think you're overreacting and that there probably are other things which would benefit more from some of your directed anger. But if you really feel you must do something, then call up that co-worker of your husband's and politely ask him to explain himself. But to mention that call to your husband's black friend and/or to offer your support against this alleged misdeed would, in light of the fact that he himself chose not to act on it, simply be patronizing.

In this country, it has been blacks who have overwhelmingly been the victims of lynching. Yes you have a right to say whatever you wish but does it mean you should always exercise that right? I think not. When it comes to the matter of lynching, I totally reject the "context" argument as if in some instances joking about lynching (murder) is acceptable. I do not find joking about lynching, something that happened to thousands of people, (mostly black) a laughing matter. If you think lynching jokes can at times be permissible, that speaks volumes about you.

It doesn't mean I would make such jokes, it means I reserve the right to. Don't think I'd often find it funny myself, and I'd certainly not joke about black persons being lynched, to other whites or blacks. But I'd dislike even more if there was some kind of law against it. Let him who wishes to make such jokes do so and be prepared for any consequences that might follow. And as pertains to this specific case, I'm still not in a position to opine on what they should be.

the enactment of laws to restrict speech. I just firmly believe that certain jokes just are not acceptable and people should not make them. Lynching is not a subject to be joked about and I suggest that people who do joke about lynching are bigots who use the joke to vent their deep seated hostility to African Americans.

You state you cannot opine on this particular incident. One often hears that kind of comment when the insulted person is black. However, those same persons will definitely have an opinion if the alleged victim is white and the perpetrator black. I can easily opine on the subject. It's been blacks who have mostly been lynched, thousands of them. Lynching is a sensitive subject to many people, particularly African Americans. I see no earthly reason why any person would want to joke about lynching unless for the reason stated above.

I still cannot think of one single instance when there have been lynching jokes made about white people either. The word "rights" in that person's post shows some really clear bias too.

If the company is downsizing or they're working on a hopelessly miserable project, or the company just generally sucks or the joker has something at home he's not looking forward to, a comment like that doesn't seem inappropriate.

The joker didn't seem to be implying that he was getting his 'rope ready' for his black co-worker ... I would have taken it to mean "x sucks(ed) so bad I'd like to hang myself".


:shrug:

the old saying, "When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on for dear life!"

I cannot understand why someone would not get it. It has been mostly black people who have been the victims of lynching. Why would a person who is not black, consistently joke about lynching to a person who is black? Would you still not get it if a person was joking about concentration camps to a Jew?

:eyes:

Speaks volumnes.

Just like someone saying sig heil to a Jewish person in reference to their allegiance to nazism would definitely not be funny or acceptable.

who are friends, and who say the most VILE things to each other and then laugh uproariously. But they both understand that it's humor and they are the best of friends.

Context is everything.

the guy was joking about hanging himself after a hard day of work. If they are friends and its just between them, what is the big deal? If he walked up to a new guy and said it out of any sort of context, then it would be deplorable, but if the other dude has a sense of humor or doesnt mind it, whats the big deal?

My black friends tease me about my dancing like a white boy. I dont get offended. I do dance like a white boy. Heyhee!

A good friend of mine taught me years ago that your intentions are not important when you say things like this. It is the perception of the person you offend that matters.

So even if you mean it as a 'joke', that isn't the point. If someone is offended, you screwed up.

I have always thought that was great advice.

and thanks for understanding--seriously:)

I was at work at lunch and made this comment: "well we should call a spade a spade".

I don't remember what prompted that comment, but it was not a racial conversation. And I was just trying to say 'let's be honest here'.

One of my African American co-workers lit into me for making a racist comment. I immediately became defensive and said "that's an old expression, it's not racist".

But my co-worker said the word 'spade' is offensive to African Americans and I had better learn that right NOW.

I was really hurt by the accusation that I had made a racist comment and I said "but I didn't intend to make a racist comment, doesn't that count?"

Then my good friend said "you know intentions don't matter, but perception does".

I have never forgotten this.

I'm starting to see that what I asked is something that should have been asked in the southern democrats forum. Not everyone understands the history of how those simple words, "get a rope," stings and insults those who have lived through that time.

is to educate folks.

Remember the story about the farmer and the mule? Sometimes you gotta pound people on their head with a board too. LOL

since I've lived in the south all my life that I forget that many others have never experienced this kind of hatred. You're right. Education is key, but am I just that naive' or are people really that unaware if they never lived here.:shrug:

in a very segregated city. So I will plead ignorance. Doesn't mean I don't want to educate myself, though.

I'm New England yankee born and bred and understood the implication of the comment immediately.

I would never have been able to hold my tongue had those comments been made in front of me. Some people are beyond ignorant.

that nails it to a tee.

there are many DUers who are younger and may not be as familiar with lynchings...(which is a good thing...because they are rare today....and a bad thing...not good to forget history)

I was beginning to think I had entered the Twilight Zone and landed on Free Republic with all these denials and outright agreements with the racist jokes.

but the persons whom it was said was not offended. They have a friendship and bond that allows them to make jokes. My question is whether or not you think that it is NEVER OK to make a comment or a joke to someone, regardless of context or the relationship. It's my impression that you are saying that two people can't joke about certain things with each other, ever, and it is always inappropriate. Well, maybe it is inappropriate, but what sort of fun would it be to be appropriate all the time? I would be offended if they were making racist jokes about other people or other races, but this comment was directed at one person, to his face, and was received with humor.

wasn't offended. Black people often accept insults just to avoid tension. The black man had to work with the person who joked about lynching and might have wanted to avoid a hostile working environment. I cannot understand why any person would joke about lynching under any circumstances, and particularly to a person whose community has been the victim of lynching. Lynching is never anything to joke about. There is nothing funny about it. I would have been terrible offended and would have said so immediately.

would have said,"Let me take that rope and put it around your white sheet with KKK written on it and hang you from the tree in my back yard --- ha, ha, ha."

Since he did not respond with equal "humor," the Black man was NOT comfortable with the remarks.


In the work place, or not in the work place, the huge majority of us
(African Americans) do not like to "joke around" with words like, TREES and ROPES, DOGS and HOSES!!

A real friend does not find the need to make comments such as the one mentioned in the post.

But his sensitivity to that expression was misplaced because the expression refers to the garden implement not the playing card suit, which is the reference where 'spade' as a derogatory comment meaning black derives. However, I refrain from using the expression because I realize some people do not know this difference. Trying to explain it doesn't help, because the person who has a visceral response to it is not going to believe you anyway because he's angry in the belief that you just used a racial slur.
Chock that up to our wonderful racial relations in this country.

inadvertently offended. That person was a co-worker and not a friend. And you are close to figuring her out - I think the word 'black' may offend HER. LOL

Everyone I know, black or white, calls it a spade.

and playing cards with her is definitely NOT on my agenda. So I honestly don't know.

she would fly into a fit about a range of issues (not racial issues though)...and it got to the point that no one in the office would even attempt to speak to her because they were afraid of offending her...

The one incident that stands out in my mind occurred in the cafeteria. A group of people were having conversation and one of the people in the group mentioned about how his father left his mother for a much younger woman and how it had been very hard for his mom and that he never was fond of his step-mother and what a "piece of work she was"... Now Ms. LookingForTrouble...(who was not part of the conversation) butted into the conversation and lit into this fellow and told him ..."perhaps your mother was the problem, ...perhaps she should have tried harder...my mother married a man who divorced his wife...and she wasn't a bad person at all....blather blather blather"

Everyone looked at her in stunned silence and then walked out of the cafeteria quickly...

...a few days goes by and it turns out that Ms. LookingForTrouble's mom had been the trophy wife of a doctor and she was offended by people who hurl slurs at women like her mom......

So now....no one talks to her for fear that any topic will send her flying to HR to register complaints.

the phrase "to call a spade a spade" goes back to the Ancient Greeks...and it has nothing at all to do with racism.

If anything it is really sad that your coworker lit into you like that and if anything my perception of your coworker from that story isn't a good one.

As for perception, like beauty ...is in the eye of the beholder...and some people's perception is distorted.

There is racism in the world and that should be dealt with but what you said in no way strikes me a racism.

wasn't offended.

but you're dead wrong. By offending a friend of our family, I am offended. Also, whether or not he appeared to be offended is not the issue. To let racist comments go on like this is how we become complacent with racism.

He was offended. And you by proxy. I get that. But it still was a comment that he overheard, not directed at him, that didn't offend the person that it was directed at. And that person was black, the target group of the "racism".

Also, doesn't racism require a specific intent? A comment can be ignorant, such as "call a spade a spade", as discussed above. Racism is the belief that one race is inferior or superior. Did the speaker mean to imply that, or was he just twisting a racist concept into humor that was appreciated by his friend, who was black? It's really not that uncommon for people of differnt races to poke fun at the other. I don't think what he said was racist in the context. And there has to be context. Words like "nigger" are used in different contexts all the time. by itself, it is not a racist word. Right?

I'm able to defend what I write, you just post incredulous questions. Look at the posts on this page. Most people can understand that friends who are of different races will make "racist" comments to each other as a joke. Look at comedians and pop culture. Racism requires intent, and a level of hate. None of this was present here. And to reiterate, the target was not offended, you and your husband were. Thou doth protest to much. Lighten up.

excuses for something you really know nothing about or frankly just don't care about it. No need to respond anymore. It's getting us nowhere.

you can't make an issue of these things in some situations w. co-workers if you feel yr job is vulnerable or you feel teamwork is part of the job

we don't know if the victim was not offended or could only hold on to his pride by pretending to accept the joke

i experienced this as a woman, i tried to go along to get along, it didn't mean the hurtful jokes weren't hurtful but they would have accomplished far more destruction to my ability to earn a living if i'd let anyone know of the hurt

such comments are never appropriate at work, they take advantage of the butt of the jokes' inability to fight back, thus they are unfair and just a shitty thing to say

But you can always say Fuck you if someone is saying something that offenseive. Well, that's overstatement, and trust me, I don't think anyone should suffer harassment at work from a superior or in general. However, the interaction describe by the OP strikes me as common male interaction, and not harassment. It's between friends, they are mocking each other. I don't know if one's the boss or what else. Besides, the guy making the comments could cost the company loads of $$$ if he was serious. And when the husband talked to the black guy, he was not offended.

There was a time when I was reluctant to respond to racist insults. I was the only black person on the job and did not want to make waves. I had also been out of work and was just glad to have a job. So I just took the insult while seething inside. I would not remain silent today.

Or Dave Chapelle.

Seriously. You'll only get laughed at. Then they'll laugh harder, when they realize you're actually serious.

edited to add: In NO WAY were any of these comments racist, and those who see them as such are far too sensitive to racism to perceive anything that is racial humor as humor. It darkens our world, to be limited in that way.

Context, context, context.

By your definition, most of the humor of the two people I mentioned above would be verboten. THAT ISN'T RIGHT. You may notice, in any broadcast of their acts, most of their audience themselves have dark skin. But, I suppose you and others would take offense to the fact that they are laughing about it.

All this only proves that some people have tissue paper for skin. Sickening.

Why don't YOU go repeat that comment about getting a rope to the next African American you see?

Just because some Black commedians joke about it doesn't mean ALL think it is funny.

Are you serious?

And- I would submit that if any signifigant number of people were actually offended by such humor, neither of them would be nationally-known names.

Should overweight people be offended at Bill Cosby's "Fat Albert" character? How about alcoholics being offended at all his "wino" stories?

I'm reminded of a quote from Madeilne L'Engle's A wrinkle in Time: If we find ourselves unable to laugh at the most serious of topics, very soon we will have nothing to laugh at.

and makes such comments all the time, then yes, it could well be taken as a racist comment. HOWEVER, some people here are making blanket statements that all racial humor is unacceptable, and that just is not true.

I'm gay, and have no problem with gay jokes. Some of them are actually very funny. For example:

Why did the gay hillbilly leave home?

He didn't like the way he was being reared.

Why did he go back?

He left his brothers behind. (brother's/brothers)

If you can't poke fun at yourself, or tolerate others doing the same, well... it's a pity.

but I would never tell them those jokes.

at yourself is "fun" and all, to do it without the consent is another thing. This has nothing to do with poking fun at oneself. It is racist and knowing the history of what happened here in the south, well...it's a pity.

understand something important. Not all blacks, myself included, like the humor of Chappele, Rock and other black comics who make outrageous jokes about black people. I don't like their humor at all. I would also think that most black people would not find a joke about lynching to be funny. Just like they would not like people making watermelon jokes in their presence. We know what that's all about. You can make all the excuses you want, but the fact is lynching jokes are not something most blacks would want to hear.

Until some of the posters have walked in the shoes of an African American everyday,they can not hardly begin to understand the anger and pure rage that is felt.

There is no way in hell that a White American can tell me how I perceive a comment that is offensive to my ancestors and my family, no way.

It really curls my blood to have Whites tell me how I should feel and think.

I will repeat it for those that don't get it.....

This is not 1864, no White man or woman is going to control my thoughts!

If some all knowing Whites want to control somebody, control George Bush. That should keep you busy for a long time, without success.

Leave US alone.

It's one thing to tell jokes that aren't threatening to a person's safety. To tell jokes or make comments that involve the idea of hanging a person is deplorable. I guess you consider that thin skinned. I shudder to think what kind of rope related joke you would like to make of this reply.

who have made exactly this comment about themselves and to each other, your outrage seems to be... rather manufactured.

It is OK for them to call each other 'nigger'. But not for a white person to call them that. Might not seem right, but that is the way it is.

Seeing as how I'm gay, and have often called other gay people/been called by other gay people "fag" "queer" "Nancy" "Pissy Patty", I'm quite familiar with such.

I won't call you a fag.

If I'm having a flaming moment, I fully expect it. Reins me in.

And if I'm standing there is a hand on one hip, tapping my toe, and swishing as I walk away.... well. I think you get the picture. :)

edited to add: no, I don't normally find myself able to bend over and light someone's cigarette... it's usually all in jest.

admirable. Unfortunately, not everyone is as open minded and accepting as you. Like my friend told me, it's all about the perception of the person you are talking to.

enduring real abuses for a long time. It tends to make one's tongue rather flip.

Thanks for understanding whee I'm coming from on this :)

My point I am trying to make is that what I think or believe or intend is not important. ONE dumb comment can ruin whatever I am intending to say. I know I am not a bigot, but someone who doesn't know me doesn't realize that. And some people whom I THINK know me can still get offended by my words. So I try to choose them carefully.

I have (and have had) plenty of black friends and at times coworkers who think saying 'wazzup niggah' is a hoot and greet me (whitey here) that way and I back.

Out of the many people I have worked and known as friends I can think of only 3 who would have taken offence (and those three I did treat differently). The rest thought all this stuff about how we talk, what we say, etc and so on was dumb and restrictive.

They did not need someone telling them what was offensive to them, especially (as one guy I now work with puts it) some white guy in an ivory tower at some egg head college thinking he knows what a black man on the east side of columbus is offended by or should be.

But to each his own.

and I find your comments hard to believe. If you think that joking about lynching is acceptable, just try joking about it to a black person. I also would not like someone to come up to me and say what's up niggaz. Most black people do not talk like that and people should stop thinking they know black people by what they hear from rappers, black comics and others in the entertainment industry. I believe there is something terribly wrong with people who find amusement in joking about something that is so painful to a large segment of this society. It would never occur to be to joke about internment camps to a person of Japanese descent. I would not think of ever joking about concentration camps to a Jewish person. Some subject should never be joked about, especially to someone whose community has been affected by it.

So you must be in a position to tell us how "they" feel, right?

I almost asked what color your skin was based on your first post here but then figured I already knew. But thanks for clearing it up.

Words used by members of a particular group are often an attempt to take back the power of those words. An outsider who has traditionally held the power (or in this case the god damned rope for pete's sake) using those words towards the members of that historically subjugated group is not the same thing - at all.

A white person using these words toward or in the company of a black person is horrifically bigoted and offensive.

it's not such a stretch to say I know how they feel about it.

Really- I've had this discussion with a lot of people over the years, and they all seem to know the difference between serious racism and a joke. Usually, it honestly isn't too terribly hard to figure out.

That is a big clue.

I quote you...
"have made exactly this comment about themselves and to each other"


For a WHITE person to speak to an African American in this manner is not OK in a public and generally not a private setting.


I have many White friends and they would never make such an ill advised statement to me (goclark takes no prisoners) or anybody else.

They learned not to say such things in Home Training 101.

Whites can either remain stuck on stupid about this issue or take the time to LEARN how to consider the feelings of others.


I laugh when I recall an incident that happened in high school.

A White bully boy said something like this to a rather small African American guy.

He had no idea that the young guy had a brother and two cousins that were black belts in karate.

The family members "introduced themselves" to the White guy on the bus one day.

The rest was history! ROTFL

"I can talk about my mama, but you damn well better not!" Well, in race it's the same thing. What Richard Pryor says to his own race is NOT something someone of a different race could say.
And as far as having a thin skin towards this kind of racist comments...yes, I do.

you really don't get the difference bet. telling a joke in a club or a movie and telling the same joke at work

go do a richard pryor or lenny bruce routine at work and see how fast yr happy ass is fired for cause

read your own post: context, context, context

to make such jokes in the work place is hateful because it takes advantage of the fact that mark can't fight back, if i don't like pryor's work, i can leave the club or turn off the teevee, if i don't like a co-worker's joke & make an issue of it suddenly there is tension on the job that can be serious

context indeed

all this proves is that people don't even read the words they themselves are writing!

the context was co-workers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

for their inability to get along with co-workers.

The all mighty $ is affected by incidents such as these.


The personal departments of major companies are working hard to address the issue of sensitivity in the work place.

Why? Because they could get into some civil rights violations big time~

We are talking lawyers working day and night to defend the actions of an employee.

Not only were the jokes told in an evironment that was supposed to be professional, but they had violent meanings. IMHO, it's the violent connotations that really stand out in the account of the OP.

He realized that slandering people of his own races was serving a racist ideology and spoke out against it. Do you want a straight person making gay bashing comments at you that they consider funny, but you consider threatening? Do you hate yourself that much that you like that sort of thing? I pity you if you do.

because I took her advice to heart.

Picnic not a racist term.

There is a floating rumor the word picnic originated with lynchings.

It did not.

I've consciously deleted some words and phrases from my speech that I've come to find ARE derogatory..."gyp" "jerry rig"

But I'm not going to cave to ignorance.
Picnic stays.

The expression is not 'jerry rig,'which is the way most people pronounce it, but 'jury rig.' It's adopted from sailing lingo. Look it up. Not derogatory at all.
;)

i think the poster was trying not to spell the actual offensive term which, sadly, is still in use and needs to be retired frankly

This site says possibly. I thought there wasn't any doubt about it.

http://www.origintrail.com/index.php?title=Jerry_rig

Check other sites and you'll see it's generally considered just a different spelling. If you hear it as 'jerry rig' it's easy to think it's a slur against the Germans. The term is 'jury rig' and in slang it means slapped together in a makshift way. Of course, after WWII when Americans learned to use 'Jerry' derisively that may have influenced the interpretation. In an early post proud2blib related a story about using the expression "calling a spade a spade." If you're racist, this may sound like another way to make a racist crack, but it has nothing to do with race.

There are other terms that people pronounced incorrectly so consistently that the incorrect association has joined the written slang."Kitty-corner" and "catty-corner" are variants that became so common they joined the language, even though "cater-corner" was long held as the only acceptable way to write this term for things on opposite ends of the diagonal in say a street intersection.

"Gyp" is a term that many people use without thinking of its origin in part because we rarely see it spelled out. Hearing it as "Jip" it has no bad connotation.

That's the offensive term.

And it goes both ways, example...

White guy to black guy: "Hey, I'm making fried chicken and ribs for dinner tonight. Are you in"?

<some laughter from the audience>

Black guy to white guy: "Damn right I'm in. You white motherfuckers need to learn how to eat properly instead of shoving down meatloaf and boiled potatoes shit all the time"

<even more laughter from the audience>

Then again, I work for a major fire department and there's a totally different sense of humor from what you'd find in another occupation.

Predominantly Mexican, some black people and some white. This goes on all
day and it is taken as it was meant, funny. The mexicans call monday "beaner monday" and I get off every other friday. They call that "Gringo Friday". They are constantly telling me that when the mexicans get drunk and start shooting up the place, nobody gets hurt cause they are all too drunk to shoot straight, but when white guys start shooting, they go all Columbine and take out everybody. We all find this kind of talk funny and it eases any racial tension, although, if there is any racial tension, you would have a hard time finding it. We all treat each other with great respect because we have all proved our worth by our job performance.

Personally, I think this is a much better situation than trying to pretend that racial stereotypes don't exist and everybody afraid to acknowledge the elephant in the room. We are open and honest about it and no one feels uncomfortable.

The site has about 40 people at any given time. I would trust most of them with my life.

I'm reminded of the Dave Chapelle sketch where slave reparations were finally paid to all African Americans. He was made up as a white reporter interviewing all the suddenly-rich black people.

One guy he approached was driving a Kool cigarette truck. "Excuse me, sir," he said into his mic, "now that you finally have the money," (paraphrasing here), "do you intend to quit your job driving this truck?"

"Driving??" The guy asked. "I just bought this truck! Now me and my family have cigarettes for life!"

Another woman was standing in line at the bank. When questioned, she said something to the effect of, "unlike you, with you poor white ass!" Or something to that effect.

My point is, there is indeed a place for racial humor, and the people who don't get that are part of the problem and not the solution.

What is the white guy saying these things in response *to*? Something the black guy said? If the black man is just there when the other guy says it in response to something else, I don't see how it means that lynching is implied. If the guy is "going home" to get the knot in his rope ready, it sounds more like a reference to his wife.

So in other words, no it's not racist, unless you can supply more information.

always saying they want a slave too (we just hired a new guy). Luckilly (?) they are also alcoholics (the 2 white guys). When I heard them say this stuff, I went up to one and said "Are you really that rascist, or is it because you are an alcoholic that you have this attitude?"

I know, I know. Alcoholism is a disease most would say. But they really piss me off sometimes.

In Great Falls, VA. A man (in his 60s I would guess) two places ahead of me called the African American cashier "Boy." The woman directly ahead of me said, "what the hell did you just call him?" The man said, "oh he doesn't mind, do you?" And the Cashier said that he would prefer to finish the transaction and leave it alone. Well the woman, said that the man was a bigot, the man just shut up and paid. After I got my groceries and went to the parking lot, I let a real oyster loogie fly on the guys head as he drove past (I smoked then). He stopped and, wiping his face, got out of the car, I calmly told him that I would gladly kill him if he gave me any opportunity to do so. As he didn't have a gun, he got back into his car and left, I never saw him again, perhaps he died......

On Edit: The cashier knew my wife by name, and as she went through her pregnancy and the infancy of our first born, he was helpful, friendly and just one of those people that make you glad to live in a particular place, so it was personal too.

I think this is something that only those who live in the south understand. It's a history that can't be explained unless you've lived it. Comments like these that we've mentioned sting and are like waving the confederate flag.

Like Dean said, they should be in our party, and some of them are. And they don't go around calling black people 'boy', either.

Great Falls is one of those places the Repukes in the DC area move to avoid the multicultural nature of the rest of the metro area.

It is full of isolated rich folks and I was a younger and angrier person then.

if it makes you feel better, I haven't spit on anyone since.......

than you, would you?

But you were way out line for spitting on him. Maybe you should have been shot.

The co-workers should speak to him privately and tell him to stop it and if he doesn't, he should be reported to HR.

That's just weird.

Sounds like an HR issue. If this ass continually makes such comments, then he should be fired.

except that we used to carry on long and detailed (spurious) discussions of bestiality with the intention of grossing out everyone else. It worked.

I'm half Comanche and half Swede. He's half Comanche and half Black. Is there any way either of us, much less both of us in collusion could have indulged in racism? Shit... Racism confuses me. I don't understand the rules.


This has nothing to do with the original post. It's just a great story.

First off, you have said that these are two friends. While on the face of it, this may sound completely racist and unacceptable, it could very well be that your husband is taking this out of the context of these two's friendship. I've known several mixed race friendships in which the parties say the most evil/racist insulting jokes to each other, yet both parties know it is their own peculiar brand of humor, and love each other dearly. Yet to an outsider, you're thinking OMG, when are they going to kill each other.

If I were your husband I would leave it alone. He obviously doesn't have the context of it, and jumping in between the two could be a sure recipie for disaster.

and I was offended by the insensitivity just on reading the story. In the past i have handled situations like this by taking the "offending" party aside and explain in a very sober voice that if the remark was meant as a joke, it was not something that should ever be joked about. Then I have just left without any time for an argument. If it happens again, since this is a work setting, I would go to a supervisor and make a complaint. Be sure to document all instances, including time, place and circumstances.
I am a middle-aged white male but am very sensitive to this crap. This makes for a very uncomfortable (hostile) work environment. I have had "discussions" with co-workers around sexist remarks on a couple occassions. I have daughters. I also have minority friends and just don't see any humor in implied threats.
The guy making the remark was not just doing it for fun but to get a reaction and provoke something. Don't take the bullshit. Be sure to document.

and I agree. I told my husband that there is a little bit of truth in every joke. This is an area where the KKK is still active--not overtly, but in the backwoods. Do you remember James Byrd who was dragged to death in Jasper, Texas a few years ago? Yes, it still exists and I am so offended to hear my husband say this has been said to a man who is a friend.

funny but instead demeaning and threatening. The horror is still happening in the country and until we acknowledge it, discuss it, and work on it, it's going to stay just the way it is. It's deplorable.

MANY people joke about their marriage as being caught in a noose .....

I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that this is specifically a racist comment without knowing the full context .... obviously this man is not going home to hang black men if he is leaving black men behind and going home ....

Why did he not say he will be right back with a rope ?

Why did he express that it was at his home that the rope exists ? .... Could he not pretend that the rope was nearby, if this was the thrust of his 'humor' ?

I think you might be jumping the gun here ....

There are a lot of people for whom really horrible, tasteless jokes are ways of easing tension. If both parties to the joke are in on it, the only issue would be with their joking within earshot of co-workers who aren't privy to the backstory.

Tucker

until they feel uncomfortable. and when they say, just kidding. i say you are full of shit. that is bullshit..... and i glare until i walk away.

i have also asked my black friends if it pisses them off. and they say he is just kidding. i tell them that is bullshit and be pissed off, i will be pissed offf with them, right next to them

it is a white mans way of putting in place, in just kidding. i know this. they do it with female all the time and then say, just kidding.

bullshit. there is no kidding there what so ever. they are doing it for a reason

"it is a white man's way of putting him in his place"...

never thought about it that way, but sounds true. The guy who said it is an old black man who isn't friends with this guy.

waving guy is reminding the black guy where his "place" is.

I don't think he's really going to knot a rope or burn a cross. That part is kidding, but the covert racism is there in the intent of the remark.

He might as well say, "You keep your place now boy, and we'll all just get along fine".

"I don't think he's really going to knot a rope or burn a cross. That part is kidding, but the covert racism is there in the intent of the remark.

You keep your place now boy, and we'll all just get along fine".

I think this is the key. The "covert" racism and it's very disturbing.

whether the man at the brunt of the joke felt able to, or desired to confront this "friend"- who "jokes" like this all the time- those of us who hear the hate behind the 'humor' need to speak up-
Clearly, without rage (that takes alot of practice and self-control) and directly.

If the 'joker' is allowed to continue- and no one counters him, we all are condoning him.

I despise (that is not a strong enough word) hiding hatred, bigotry, and evil behind the notion of "it's just a joke"- i have yet to hear bush tell a 'joke' that was anything other than a veiled barb or put-down of someone- And i don't find any humor in that. Sadly, what i believe is actually done when we let this go on, is an unconsious acceptance, and conditioning of attitudes that will come to the surface in much more harmful and violent ways-

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and i intend to stay that way-

I agree BlueRoses, it's the 'covert' stuff that we need to REALLY pay attention to- or ignore at our peril.

Maybe we should all say that the year 2000 was "just a joke"- and excuse everything that has gone on since for the same reason???

And it could get the guy, and the company, in a lot of trouble, if your husband or someone who felt like he did decided to press the issue. It may be a good idea for everyone involved if your husband took him aside and let him know not everyone finds those comments funny.

But I would call it out if they did.

I think buddies should be able to say just about anything to each other, as long as they respect each others' feelings. Some humor is funny because what is said is inappropriate, absurd, or in bad taste. In that context, I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, it depends much on the person saying it, and the person it is said about. As a rule, I would avoid saying anything like this to any but a good friend who knows my intentions, and probably not in front of someone who might take it otherwise.

a black person to be a buddy, why would he make a joke about lynching given the history of this country. He would do such a thing only if he was a closet bigot and used a "joke" as a means to express real dislike of black folks. My grandmother used to speak often of people who gave black people "a face" but who really had a great dislike of African Americans.

There is a form of humor where one says something as entirely inappropriate as possible, especially at an inappropriate time. Friends who know each other would understand that saying something like this to them is that form of humor, not some form of repressed bigotry. If the one friend didn't understand that, or was sensitive about it, the other friend probably wouldn't tell the joke. However, you are making a false assumption in saying that anyone who makes a lynching reference to a Black person is a closet bigot. That isn't to excuse all instances of this, or even the one mentioned in the original post. I was merely stating an example of how it could be good natured, if inappropriate, rather than racism.

If one has respect for his black friend, the last thing he will do is make jokes about lynching. That subject is too painful for most black people. There is absolutely nothing funny about lynching. Black people until the mid twentieth century had to fear being lynched. Of all the subjects he could joke about, why choose lynching when talking to a black man. The truth is that he secretly harbors resentment towards black people and uses "jokes" to get it out. Lynching is not a subject to be joked about, particulary to an African American.

And you're making broad-brush assumptions about every Black person in America, who don't all feel the same way you do. I wasn't making an argument, I was stating a fact that you don't recognize.

I am black, associate with many blacks, and don't know of any who would feel happy to hear a joke about lynching coming from a white person. They would be terribly offended. Not once in my life have I ever heard a black person make a joke about lynching. It's just not a subject that is funny. I cannot understand why any white person would think it appropriate to joke about lynching to an African American.

...and you associate with many others. I had no idea that every Black person thinks I'm wrong. But, since you can speak for all Black people, I'll tell you I'm so sorry I thought something that you and all Black people disagree with. Thanks for straightening that out.

I do think I know a lot more about black people than you do and one thing I can be pretty sure of: Most black people will not be laughing as a person who is not black makes jokes about lynching.

that is not a joking matter, it is not a matter of what would i say, presumably the man wants to keep his job & feels he must put up w. the harassment

if he can, he should quietly keep a log of the comments, time, date, place, to show a pattern of how often and maybe talk to a lawyer

if he goes to human resources, i'm afraid he'll be the one labelled the troublemaker so i'd definitely talk to the attorney first and see if he has any rights to be free of having to listen to such "jokes"

over you (blacks) and don't you forget it".

black co-worker should have shunned him long ago.

what a moron.

The racist stuff is simply fueled by the Repukes.

Meanwhile...corporate backstabbing, social unrest, and wide scale violence are become hallmarks of this culture.

The blacks are actually being exploited to help feed into the unrest and violence...with the gang cultures etc. And unfortunately our youth sees this all in the magazines, MTV, and in the news and feels it's "cool" to be gangster like. Have you looked at the youth lately?

We do fostering and it is rampant in the NY tri-state area.

Wouldn't it be hard for him to be friends with a black man?

my husband is friends with the guy who received the racist comment. They watch football together and were talking about the games. It was said to him while my husband and he were talking. The other guy was walking by them and said it when he walked passed them--joking, of course:eyes:

"These guys have been working together before my husband got there so I know they are friends"

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

they aren't "buddies" shall we say. :eyes: Maybe I should have used the word, "friendly" and that might be a stretch given what some might pick apart.

And you're asking us to judge whether it was right or wrong based only on what you're telling us.

It's like a game where we're suppose to decipher the answer from the few facts presented., but the facts keep changing, making this game harder.

This is clearly a situation where one had to witness to make a fair judgment. As it is right now, you didn't even witness the exchange. So we're being asked to make a judgment based on second-hand information.


Not everything is so black and white, pardon the pun.



:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

then skip this thread and go to another one. Geeze...:eyes:

Hence people are offering their opinions. Do you only create threads to validate your own opinion on something?

making jokes about hanging people. Talk about issues of color here, like your true colors showing through. Cop that attitude if you want to, but it speaks volumes to people who know what it really means under the surface.

I almost responded immediately but work came up. Now I'm glad that I had a chance to read other people's thoughts before I posted. My response is probably a bit more muted because of it.

I don't think that there is an absolute to that form of racist humor. I know that as a minority group myself that is continually shown to be practically subhuman and almost always evil, that there are plenty of derivative things people say. I've been called a raghead baby killer to my face. I know what it's like to have someone say something racist and have it be hurtfull. Yet those same words coming from my cousin hold entirely different meaning. They are humorous. Many white people don't understand why a black person can call another black person 'nigger' and it's not the same as when a white person does it. As someone who has been called a 'sand nigger' in both contexts, I am fully aware. It's not like I do it on a regular basis, but it happens.

And with some friends, inside closed doors, on occasion, you'd think we were some of the most evil people alive. You get me, one of my jewish friends, and our Hari Krishna buddy in the same room...forget about it. The few outsiders who have been privy to it have blanched at first. All of us though have been attacked at one point or another for who we are, and we make the most racist jokes to each other and really just crack up. It takes the power AWAY from racists and racism. It makes it funny. It makes the next racist idiot far less intimidating and far more ridiculous to us.

Doing it in the office place or in public is poor tact though. I'd never make the jokes or statements that we do in private anywhere near the public. I know other people could be offended by them, so I don't. To say that to joke like this is beyond pale I think is going a bit to far. I would agree with you in the circumstances you describe, but not in mine.

And I took it as a compliment.

what blacks went through doesn't even compare to being called a "spic", which I think is a racial slur as well.

it's all about context. I wouldn't take it as a compliment if someone says it insultingly.

Did they hint that they would enjoy killing you? Did you take that as a compliment too?

I know they did it with affection, but if one of their friends or my friends said the same, I would tell them it wasn't a nice thing to call someone and they would back me up.

They have been friends as you said before your husband arrived, they go back and have a past. If this other guy doesn't find it offensive then I would leave it alone.

If the guy just said it to anybody with intent that's one thing. But if they are two friends who mutually find the 'humor' acceptable, and the recipient of it has absolutely no problem with it, than there is no problem. I used to joke around with a black friend of mine all the time. He would make over the top jewish jokes to me, I would make over the top black jokes to him. We were friends, knew we were joking, and cracked our asses the hell up.

I don't mean this harshly, just realistically, but if the friend is perfectly a-ok with it and has no complaints, than it really isn't anyone elses business from my perspective.

ON EDIT: I just read another of your replies and see more clearly now. I misunderstood your context when you said a good friend of his, I thought you meant of the guy who said the joke. If the guy who made the racist comment is just a co-worker that doesn't have a bond with the black gentleman, than all I wrote above is illegitimate and the guy should definitely be taken to HR.

I think some remarks posted on this thread are off base because they are shooting from the hip.


That is how feelings can get hurt, in a work environment as well as social.

PEACE

If they have that sort of say anything relationship, it's all good.

Even if they do not, the black dude probably doesn't need your help being pissed. I would take my cue from him. Support him if he wants to make an issue, let it go if he does not.

Joking about lynching is always offensive. Thousands of black people died in this country at the hands of lynchers. Take a look at some of the pictures in Without Sanctuary. White people came from miles around, brought their children and picnic baskets and watched in glee as blacks were lynched and sometimes burned to a crisp. Their body parts were taken and exhibited in shop windows. It makes me, a black person, very angry just to read the excuses in this thread. Making jokes about murder is never the right thing to do. Just because the co-worker did not show anger did not mean he wasn't angry. Many black people want their jobs and know if they make waves the administration will side with the white person and the black complainer will be out the door. Some of the posts in this thread are simply shocking. Says a lot about this country.

but he also doesn't need whitey telling him how he's supposed to react either. Follow the black dude's lead, I say. If he isn't ready to make an issue, it's not up to his white friends to do it for him.

think the white abolitionist should have just kept quiet too. I admire whites who are offended at injustice and speak against it. So the black man did not speak up and you think it is perfectly acceptable that the white man continue his lynching jokes, eh? Black people fearful of loosing their jobs often don't speak up. By your logic it is perfectly acceptable that they continue being the object of abuse because after all, they did not speak up. Speaks volumes.

by some white guy. The black guy let it go.

His reaction was to ask the black guy why he didn't react, and to want to go and say something on the black dude's behalf. The black dude got angry at him, because he was acting as if the black dude couldn't take care of himself, and didn't know when to get angry.

Fighting injustice is fine. But stepping in front of someone to defend them when they don't want you to could be considered patronizing to that person.

I'm taking my cue from that black friend of my friend.

are just offering excuses why you feel its acceptable to ignore racists comments. If the object of the racism doesn't express anger, it's ok according to you to let the comment pass. You don't see why anyone else should be upset at such a comment. Well, I don't see it that way. As I said earlier, the black guy could not have wanted to make waves. That's often the case with black people. I appreciate whites and others who see the situation as it is. This man is probably a closet bigot who vents his bigotry through jokes to someone he knows will accept it. By the way, I am very skeptical about your comment concerning your black friend. Sounds very strange to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5694483&mesg_id=5697247

And esp the last line.

That is what I'm trying to say.

(And I do hope you didn't just call me a liar.)

right?

you write:

"he also doesn't need whitey telling him how he's supposed to react either. Follow the black dude's lead, I say. If he isn't ready to make an issue, it's not up to his white friends to do it for him."

Tell me you surely don't believe this. Forget about what I originally wrote. Let's try this. Would you sit by and let people insult Rosa Parks for standing up for her right to sit on the bus, 'cause if so it's all one in the same. If so, then we really haven't come that far.

It's time as Democrats we have this debate.

I had a white friend who witnessed someone being racist toward a black friend. He asked "Aren't you going to get mad? I should say something."

And the black guy got mad at him, because he was acting as if the black guy couldn't take care of things himself. The black guy actually saw that as a subtle form of racism in and of itself. That is where my answer is coming from.

Defending a public figure like Rosa is different from dealing with friends and acquaintances, is all I'm saying.

when this incident happened. Have you ever seen the movie, "Mississippi Burning?" If so, then you can see how easy racism spreads when it's left to "defend itself" in a bigoted environment. Sitting back and saying nothing is like fanning the flames.

This situation is not anything like the movie, but what I'm hearing is that covert racism still is strong when I thought we had come some ways past this crap.

about how far this country has NOT come since 1864.

My,my -- this is the Democratic? Underground??

Huum

It just doesn't feel like this should be the attitude people have toward racism on DU. Feels like reading over at FR.

reaction as a by-stander.
As for the comments from people about different ways of coping with abuse - through humor sometimes: this is valid as long as we remember this:
ONLY THE VICTIM OF AN ABUSE/CRIME HAS THE RIGHT TO FORGIVE
That translates here in the fact that say, the blacks have the right to chose how to deal with the word "nigger" or racy jokes on them (same goes for gays, Jews, etc).
An outsider cannot tell THEM how to react, nor establish rules on what's the acceptable response.

thanks for saying it better.

You make a very good point about racy jokes.

I am not gay or Jewish but I feel the sting if anyone dares to make a joke about them anywhere near me!

I can feel their pain because I know what it is like as an African American to be at the end of the "joke."

To not be visibly identified must be more painful!

To be Gay or Jewish is even a bigger problem in my mind.

When someone looks at goclark, they know they are looking at or talking to a Soul Sister!

I have been in social and work related situations with friends that were gay or Jewish and I die inside because I want to protect them from mean "jokes" that ignorant people make, not knowing(or maybe they do know and don't care) the status of my friends.


It is Barbaric to be cruel in the 21st Century. There is no excuse for it,none.

Does he joke about cancer and rape too?

I think he is "joking" like this in order to let his very genuine underlying contempt reach the surface. Nobody in their right mind would think this is funny. Especially the fact that he does it continuously.

"Friends" like that, nobody needs.

I would state in no uncertain terms that these comments are inappropriate and will not be tolerated. This is discrimination, and a hostile work environment.

how old is he ? i wonder if he grew up in days of segregation or in mostly white areas and just learned to accept it, or rather to let it go and not make an issue out of it even though it does bother him.

the jokes are a bit disturbing because of the issue. i could kind of understand if his jokes meant to imply the stereotypes of black people being good dancers, sports players or something else like that.

but lynching jokes ? i don't even see that as a joke. it's not funny in any way. i don't see how any black guy would truly view it as just a joke between friends.

the black man sounds like he's heard it before from the white guy.

are they truly friends? or simply co-workers that are able to get along (in part because the black guy lets the white guy get away with making these shit remarks without putting his foot down & telling the white guy to knock it off).

your husband was put in an awkward position by the white guy who was spouting off.

yeah, it's all in good fun, right? and if anyone says anything about it then obviously they can't take a joke, right?

it's too bad. my guess is the black guy has made the decision long ago to pick and choose his battles--and maybe this is a battle he has decided to spend little energy fighting.

i don't know what i would do overhearing something like that. but in the past when someone has made a racist "joke"/remark in a conversation with me (a white girl) i just come right out and tell them i find it extremely offensive and i don't want to hear them talking that shit in front of me again.

and of course you are right--these remarks are completely based on race and racial intolerance (and not that the white guy wants to go hang himself from a hard day at work as some of the posters have said.)

having said that--isn't it wonderful that some people here are innocent and blind to such remarks--maybe they're too young and these types of comments just aren't as prevalent today with younger people as they once were. and that's a good thing! maybe we have made some progress on issues of race.

sorry for the long-winded post.

were brought up in America. Face it, all of us from one time to another has said something that can be considered as racist. We have came a long way, and we still have a long way to go. All of us have to fight off our racism. Your friend knows that guy is just kidding, and I'm sure he is. Maybe your friend should have a talk with him and explain how his racial comments made as a joke, hurt.

or let it drop. Frankly, out of courtesy, I would do the "let it drop" thing. As others have posted, context is everything, and code jokes among friends can seem inappropriately racist or offensive to others. For example, the use of the "N" word among young men who are African-American is apparently "okay" (and even encouraged in some musical styles) while I find it massively offensive, and would just about have a conniption if someone used it around me. Same for the "c*nt" word -- it is beyond the pale, and completely unacceptable. However, I do not have a problem with the "b" word (b*tch), while other people find it grounds for near homicidal wrath...you get the idea.

Do you really believe this person was "threatening" his friend? If not, drop it. If this man is really a racist, and not just being a "guy" (which sometimes includes saying the most RUDE THINGS to each other, which they then laugh at uproariously -- something I have PERSONALLY witnessed, and discussed with my beloved husband), then have your husband say something to him. If he's just practicing that weird male bonding thing, LET IT GO -- it sounds like two guys of different races are friends, and that is NOT how racists behave. Getting your titties in a twist (that's supposed to be a joke about offensive language, by the way) about somebody else's "private jokes" is almost a waste of time -- better to spend your righteous energy on something that really matters.

But, on the other hand, if you really believe this guy is an Evil Racist who just makes comments like this to display his overt hostility to those of different races, have your husband find some equally Rude and Obnoxious "joke" to make around him. You know, something like "I know white men always have small penises, but damn -- yours must be super small!" Or something like that. I'm not a guy, so maybe a few of them can come up with really lame white guy put-downs that are funny. From what I have seen, its something guys admire in each other sometimes. :shrug: (Personally, it just comes across as RUDE to me, but my husband says SHOPPING is another word for TORTURE in male speak, so who is to say who is right?)

Good luck! :)

If it is an inside joke between the two people, then you have no business butting in, plain and simple.

Sounds to me like the white guy is anti-racism, actually, because only someone against racism could make such obvious jokes about it to a black man.

Black Americans know that they will probably be the one to lose their job if he /she doesn't chin and grin to the White clown.

If you want to keep it on an equal footing, come to my home and say those jokes with me.

That way I can kick the person out my back door if I don't like the tone of the remarks.

IMO,the White so called friend knew exactly what he was doing.

The African American is not on neutral territory at work.

It is the White Man's World.

NOT. People who are against racism are against racism and wouldn't make jokes like that. It's violent and cruel against an entire group of people for no good reason. It's not funny in any sense of the word. Period.

I personally wouldn't put up with that type of humor, but that is me.

Racist jokes are blatant racism. Period.

Making light of racism isnt wrong IMO. Its getting it out in the open and destroying it by laughter. Ever watch the standup acts on BET. Funny as hell and stinging. Laughter and exposing things that are normally hurtful makes them much less powerful when real racism steps up.

Making light of racism is terribly wrong. Racism can poison the working environment. It creates resentment and suspicion. Martin Luther King and others did not make light of racism. I suggest that you read King's Letter from a Birmingham Jail. Funny how people can dismiss racism when it does not effect THEIR lives.

Im saying that laughing at people who make real racist comments and acts can make them less powerful. For instance , say your neighbor has a burning cross on his lawn. Which would be more powerful? Making this guy a laughingstock of the town or whispering about how bad he is behind closed doors? Laughter is a powerful tool. Nobody is saying laugh with the racist , but laugh at them.

We have to face the truth. There's something about this approach that I actually like.

Let it out....get to know each other as human beings. Don't let skin color act as a barrier- take that fucking barrier down.

If that didn't fix the problem I'd find a lawyer and sue the shit out of the company.

other, I don't see a problem with it. But ONLY if both joke with each other.

My dad is riding around today with his best friend, who's African American. They ALWAYS joke back and forth with each other about race issues. Now, would my dad be the first to defend him if someone insulted him? Yes. Would my dad's black friend be the first to defend my dad if someone insulted him? Yes.

I have no doubt that my dad is the least racist person I know. And his African American friend knows this as well as I do. Victor, my dad's best friend, really ribs my dad good, too.

It's an openness in their relationship--about their friendship and about race--that many people can't understand.

And Victor is no Uncle Tom, by any means. He's proud of his heritage. He and my dad accept each other as they are, and part of that acceptance is the way they joke with each other.

Victor and Dad were up here on the 40 acres where I live last week, unloading wood that they had just retrieved from the sawmill. Victor winked at me and said, "Damn, your dad is a cracker." I replied, "Yeah, well you should have been raised by him."

That's the way they pick back and forth. I don't see anything wrong with it at all, and I'd wager that my dad's and Victor's friendship would make most DUers enviable, if they could see them together.

can be friends but there are just some things that even a good friendship will allow. One of them is a white person joking about lynching to a black man. I have white friend whom I've known for a long time. They have never joked to me about race. I don't think your father's friend should be calling your father a cracker, even as a joke. I strongly doubt if that friendship would lead him to accept being called a N---er by your father. If that slur would be acceptable, your father's black friend is quite unusual. I don't see why anyone would want to joke about lynching. To me it's like making a joke about raping women,it's just not acceptable IMO.

I think you underestimate black people and there ability to know who is who. I have a great freind I grew up with and he and I made a freindship based on who could insult the other the best. Its funny and it keeps these stereotypes from settling in. I have no doubt that he would have my back in a bad situation and he knows the same. Our freindship is based on honest open communication. We have never held back on blasting real racist people

who underestimates black people. Sometimes a black person appears not to be upset by certain behavior but in reality is deeply troubled by it. I don't understand why anyone would make jokes about lynching to an African American, even if he's a friend. I find it deeply troubling that people continue to offer excuses for such behavior.

How would you perceive that?

I felt oddly privileged, as if I'd been given something. That's probably not right, or correct. It certainly stuck in my head, that's for sure.

If its a total stranger calling someone the n word ,with malice, then I really have a problem with it. If its two guys who work together or have been friends for a long time then thats different. Guys insulting each other isnt new. Inserting race into the insults is healing . Its no longer taboo and once the taboo is gone, the strength of the word goes also.
Im not having a real easy time explaining myself today. Must be my add kicking in.

is a slur. I think the words cracker and honky are also slurs and, like the N, word shouldn't be used. I wish black youth and comics would stop using the N word in all its forms. Simply ridiculous that they would use a word that has such a horrible history.

"Cracker" means the overseer who "cracks" the whip. "Crackers" can be black or white.

He has reformed, as much as possible, since marrying her almost 20 years ago and being educated that what he was saying was hurtful.. but he still slips. In his case, and in much of those types cases, is that they are just truly, truly, ignorant. There are evil people who exhibit racism as another facet of their vicious personalities, and others that were raised to be racist and ignorant. The white co-worker continually makes those jokes because he hasn't been told not to because he's ignorant and no one has complained, those two have agreed to allow that type of joking. I would faint over dead if someone said that within my earshot at work. I think it's the black co-worker's place to complain, probably.... but if your husband wanted to, he could report the man for his offensive comments. I don't understand why the co-worker puts up with that... Does the black co-worker make his own jokes at the other fellow's expense? I've had black co-workers, friends, relatives, and I could even imagine thinking that type of shit was funny. Sometimes people have odd friendships...

and these friends are comfortable telling jokes like that, then I have to wonder why the man telling the joke felt he had to point out that he was just kidding. That should have been a given.

In general, I think that it is bad to joke about violence, especially violence inherent against a particuliar group like lynching blacks, raping women, gassing Jews.
Being really bored at work, I considered what kind of "joke" the white coworker might be making and why the black coworker might be hesitent to say anything.
I have known a number of people who use that kind of humor to make fun of people making fun of them. They make fun of rumors or attitudes against them by saying something even more outrageous. For example, a woman rumored to be a stripper says "Actually, I am a street walker. I service about 20 guys a night." and then regularly makes comments about "turning tricks."
This type of humor can be friendly, especially if people have gotten to know each other and became friends but originally had misconceptions. It can also be hostile though.
The white coworker might be saying "I know that you think that I am racist, but I am not." or perhaps he is racist and saying "Yes, I might be a little racist, but I am not the Klan." If it is that type of humor though, he is making fun of people thinking that he is racist. If the black coworker called him on being racist, the white coworker might get even worse.

Maybe I should go to your house and show your wife what a real man is like and then say, just kidding.
Or start dating his daughters.

that would shut up the older white guy, real stinking quick.

AFAIAC (as far as I am concerned) the black guy is a bigger, better person for not giving this old white puke what he deserves.

a little levity- maybe even a little "gallows humor"- can go a long way.

It seems as if the white guy in this case might be a little uncomfortable being around the black man because he's actually afraid that he might say something offensive, so he's trying to release the tension.

The guy sounds like an idiot. If he was telling sexist jokes to females, he could be accused of sexual harassment. Just because something is in a form of a joke, doesn't make it acceptable at the workplace.
He is not in a comedy club, he is at work, and it's not acceptable.

My friends and I joke about race all the time.

Granted, jokes with regards to lynching and slavery are in poor taste regardless...

As a supervisor, if I heard one of my employees make a statement like that, I would explain to him that even if the co-worker understood it was a joke, it is improper to make that type of "joke" in the environment of the work place. It might be overheard by clients, co-workers and others who could be offended. Let's face it, any "humor" factor it contains would be predicated upon the recognition that it is offensive in some way. If I heard of a further incidence, I would explain that the "joke" is offensive to ME, and if I hear about such "joking" again, the matter WILL BE RESOLVED to my satisfaction.

Having said that, I don't think that ALL types of humor relating to sensitive subjects should be banned. There is a comedian named Kip Adada who once had the following in his act:

A black man walked into a bar with a parrot on his head. The bartender asked, "Say, where did you get that thing?" The parrot replied, "Africa! There's millions of 'em!".

It was interesting to see people's reactions. Is there a racial slur in there?

such jokes are not acceptable. We are talking about a work place here, not a comedy club.

that are growing by leaps and bounds in the work place.


Of course since GWB has been in office, the quiet and the vocal bigots are rejecting the notion that they should not be able to joke around and say anything to anybody.


The Biggest Bully is Bush but there is one thing that holds him in office ~ he says what the Bully Whites want to hear.

Just from reading this thread, I realize why GW is in office today.


Racism is alive and not well in America.