How Do Your Feel About Impeachment?

I am thinking that we don't need another impeachment. I think it would be better for everyone if these guys just slid down into their own slime and disappeared. Which they seem to be doing even as I speak.

For one thing, this huge mess we call and administration has been caused by a whole lot of slimey people that found each other. Not just those in leadership positions, either. But all the greedy, power hungry pols and the people that voted for them.

I want to see them all go down. Not just the puppet prince.

We can't impeach *bush- we have no proof he's had sex since moving into the White House.

I just want our country to have the best chance to get it back together and start fixing stuff.

But historically I guess the bad guys have to be executed as part of the healing process.

Hang Em High? Part of me would get some joy out of that. But a bigger part of me wouldn't. I just want them gone.

"All states permit citizen arrests if a felony crime is witnessed by the citizen carrying out the arrest, or when a citizen is asked to help apprehend a suspect by the police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanor crimes, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. In California, for example, there is no requirement that a lawful arrest be executed by a citizen (as opposed to an alien or illegal immigrant), and the citizen's arrest is referred to as a "private person arrest." Note particularly that American citizens do not have the authorities or the legal protections of the police, and are liable before both the civil law and criminal law for any violation of the rights of another."

We could get a Katrina survivor to put them under arrest, and it would be completely legal.

This bunch are criminals. They need to be prosecuted. Impeachment is just a part of it.

It is needed for the health of our democracy.

I can't even get a grip on all this stuff any more. I don't think we have ever had a bunch of sleazeballs like this - where they simply ignored our whole method of government. And just rammed their awful ways right down everyone's throat.

It has been like 6 years in a dark black hole. We need to get out of this where we can see sunlight again.

we never thought we would have our own screwing us and the world so badly, we are the only ones to end this total negligence and incompetence, or they will keep doing what they are doing.

Either you support Law & Order, or you support the Republicans. End of discussion.

Impeachment would require an opposition party. The GOP couldn't get the votes against Clinton. There is no way that the DLC will chIMPEACH. It would not be good for Halliburton, so it is not good for America.

The democrats in this Congress certainly have done a great job, either.

I don't have an answer. I have often thought of joining the GOP, and working from within to change the party. I oppose many policies (drug war, death penalty, bankruptcy, free trade, outsourcing / offshoring, preemptive war) that both parties support.

We need for the really strong leaders to get out there. Dean has been out last week. But we need a strong presence right now from Kerry and Edwards and Clark.

catch 22

Especially with the polls the way they are. And all of the crisis hitting at one time.

This is the perfect time to get out and start getting people to listen to the truth (or as near to it as a pol ever gets.)

But I really do think that our "weakness" is a strength, as the GOP is now in control of everything, and pretty much everything is a MESS.

Since we only have two parties, one can crash, the other one really doesn't need to do anything to take control. I am afraid that the Dems will continue the old "we are not as bad as the GOP" or "we are a little better then the GOP" shtick.

I don't like it, but that is what you get when you have two wings of one corporate party.

These criminals aren't going anywhere without being shoved. IMPEACH Bush**. IMPEACH Cheney**. It's their fault, not ours. We'll just be doing what's right.

NGU.

This whole thing goes down to a really, really rotten core. I tend to think Cheney is closer to the rotten core than Bush - Bush is so stupid he just doesn't have a clue. Or maybe not. Maybe its all just a big dumb act and underneath it is the great satan.

Did you ever catch his debates against Ann Richards when he was running for Governor of Texas? He wasn't this inarticulate and stupid. Either

A) He suffered traumatic head injury (I've actually seen somebody suggest that), or
B) He's been playing up the "Aww Shucks" routine since about 1998, when he started sounding this dumb.

Maybe he is back on drugs and booze. We would never know.

and the old cronies from the Nixon/Reagan administration. These guys have to be stopped in their tracks, they are just to ignorant and arrogant for me.

Impeachment sounds great - and I usually find myself shouting for it when I am enraged (which is quite often). Rationally speaking though - I really think it would be best when we regain control of Congress (think positive), we hogtie Bush and rake him over the coals for his outrageous power-grab until the presidential election in 2008.

My fear is if we spend all of our time on impeachment proceedings and are successful, it might give the Republicans a 'fresh start' in 2008. Let it drag out until the end.

for the Dems. It would take enormous money, time, energy, and probably lose us a whole bunch of votes in the process. A Republican "outsider" like a governor could run on the same platform: new, uncorrupted, yada, yada. And they could be elected.

Let history and his God be his judge. Let's just please get in there ourselves and do it correctly.

All the people who said I wasn't a "patriot" for criticizing Bush, that I was a crazy liberal making up stories, that everything was going to be great. That Iraq was a threat, and we would be greeted as liberators, that it wasn't about oil, that Halliburton was just a good company with the right skills for the job, that there was no bad reason for Cheney's energy meeting to be held in secrecy, that Valerie Plame "deserved it", that EVERYONE in the US believes in a Christian god, and that god should take His rightful place at the head of our government.

That companies will "do the right thing" because they want to, when it comes to protecting the environment, so we don't need laws for that. That global warming isn't really happening. That alternative energy sources are a waste of time, because oil is so cheap and great. That it doesn't really matter who is head of the Supreme Court, so long as that person is a friend of Bush.

Stop me before I get carpal tunnel syndrome....

I would like to see them tarred and feathered and run out of town over that one.

Just one of many dispicable things they have done.

I will admit that they deserve to be hung up and flayed. I just want the right thing done for this country - not just for vengeance.

Tell it like it is!

but I believe we need to start with impeachment.

But it must be Bush and Cheney, not just Bush.

the very least it would do is keep them too busy to continue to trash the environment or (if we're lucky) invade Iran.

We have an obligation to the world to do whatever we can to stop Bushco. After all, we are the only ones who can. Those who are watching their friends and family get killed can do nothing to get Bush impeached. If the US is to ever have any friends in the world again, we need to be able to look them in the eye and say we did everything we could to stop Bush.

Did I mention this is NOT JUST ABOUT US?

you are quite correct the world is watching, and remember there are many ex-pats who are living in other parts of the world.

Pardoning at this point should be seen as obstruction of justice.

I say that Clinton's mistake was in dropping the Iran-Contra investigation. Although I understand why he did it, and I see that other things would have been traded, but more of these thieves might have been stopped from ascending high enough to steal from us.

We should not make that mistake now.

The cost of allowing them to expose themselves becomes too high.

I feel that it's important for future generations to know that the American people realized their mistake. We cannot let a fascist stay in office without some form of punishment. As it stands now, history will show that we re-elected Bush to a second term.

Future leaders must be shown that they can't get away with what Bush has.

...get on board with the Rome Convention of the International Criminal Court, then hand over the whole cabal to the Hague.

Impeach. Indict. Imprison. The entire corrupt regime!

The only way for this Administration to be investigated is through congressional oversight.

If they find that this Administration is in fact likely to be guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, then indict (impeach).

There's only one way for us to find out the truth.

The facts don't have a liberal bias, or a conservative one. They are only the facts, and we can't get them unless we investigate.

Read what my man Bob Fertik has to say about Nancy "No-spine" Pelosi about the matter:
Now go read the entire enchilada!

As much as I'd like to him go, the line of succession is just as scary if not more so. I want them ALL gone!

If this country is to become a nation of laws again, Bush and Cheney must be impeached and their entire gang prosecuted for their crimes.

Otherwise, we've surrendered permantly to fascism.

If what has happened to this country in the past few years is not an impeachable offense, I'd sure like to know what would be? Other than a sex act, that is. There has to be some justice somwhere! I don't see it happening in my lifetime, but there have to be lessons learned from this kind of presidential abuse!

if we are ever to regain our position in the world. We need to prove to the rest of the world that they are an aberration, not business as usual.

However, this can be done after they leave office, and possibly should be. A far better immediate course of action would be to oppose them in Congress (like that's gonna happen), to pursue all the current investigations into rampant corruption, and increasingly isolate them from the rest of government, one crony at a time.

If ever there were grounds for impeachment, it is with this bunch. However, it should be done by their party, not by ours, to avoid the inevitable screeching over the right wing air waves of partisan witch hunts and all the other stuff they do but project onto us.

But there will have to be a reckoning. If there is not, we are lost.

However, it might be more damaging if we show them how EASY it is to do things the right way. Kinda let the Republicans stew in their own corrupt juices and see how many decades it takes for Americans to start voting for them again.

Their party is already beyond crippled.

otherwise we only change the uniforms of the prison guards.

Impeachment is the process working as designed again. Impeachment is the cost of restoring good government.
Impeachment is what patriotic citizens of a republic demand when their government demeans the rule of law.

Without that, what exactly do the Dems imagine they can "win" or "fix?"

The spying and signing statement crimes require no investigation or hearings.

The regime has made are direct, willful challenges to the sovereignty of the American People, as expressed through existing law passed by generations of their representatives in Congress.

Each day any federal office holder refuses to act (Dems and Reps) they are in violation of their oaths of office and complicit with the ongoing treason.

Impeachment is the only moral, patriotic option.

--
www.january6th.org

I had always leaned toward impeachment till I started looking at how long and complex a fight it would be and how little good it would do. Get rid of Bush and we have one that's about as bad, and another about as bad behind that one. They damned well deserve it, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't be just a waste of time as far as doing any good. In any case it would put him on par with Clinton in the minds of many, and that's not right. Why offer them any shred of dignity to hide behind?

The idea I like better is a full investigation into all of them with all info turned over to criminal prosecutors here at home as well as international agencies for possible war crimes trials. That's a bit closer to what they deserve. Too much honor in impeachment, why offer them that much respect? He's a war criminal, an impostor, not my President. Treat him like a war criminal under investigation, then prosecute.

The man you want to hang out and slink away has 2 more years to drive up oil prices, start new wars, offend more neighbors and ignore more laws.

This man can start a nuclear attack. He can continue to erode the barely there environmental laws we have. He can continue to appoint horrible, evil men and women to continue destorying the govenrmental agencies that protect and help us.

Bush must be impeached because he believes he is above the law and will ignore Congress when our represntatives say "pResident Bush, put down that WMD and walk away slowly".

And what happens when we have another disaster in America? The slime these guys are creating will take years, no generations to clean up. Get rid of them before they cause more damage.

about it myself. We need to get these guys stopped and that may be the only way to do it.

I don't know what we would do if they simply refused to recognise the proceedings.

If the fucking idiots in our country weren't so easily duped by pro-corporate, pro-GOP propaganda, we wouldn't even be in this mess right now.

Every time Congress is the opposite party of the President, it could happen. Doesn't seem like that was what it was meant for.

We are so overdramatic in American culture these days. If it's not the extreme, it's not enough for us.

But on the other hand, Bush's attitude towards the Bill of Rights makes me sick. Though it may not be impeachable.

Clinton should not have been impeached for that stuff. It was piddly, compared to what impeachment is meant for.

I think there should be a comprehensive investigation of this administration. When everything is exposed to the light of day, the American people should DEMAND impeachment.
When politicians push for impeachment, it looks so...well, political. But if the masses arise and demand it, it becomes an act of patriotism.

Do we tell killers and rapists to just slime away? No, we prosecute them and deal them harsh sentences. Not only that, but those mfkers impeached Clinton for way less. It's time to even the score.

Assuming that the Democrats recapture the House -- still a very uncertain proposition -- and assuming that the Dems voted as a unified bloc or picked up some repubs -- also an uncertain proposition -- it might be possible to impeach in the House, although the process would (a) be divisive (b) energize the repubs (c) probably prevent any other real work from being done, which will not impress the voters in 2008. So, I suspect the chances of it happening in the House are probably less than 50 percent. And when you consider that there is no possibility of obtaining a conviction in the Senate...well, folks should get used to the idea that impeachment is going to happen (and even if it did, chimpy isn't getting removed from office).

onenote

...about the "2/3rd Senate vote roadblock."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1122801#1124969

One other strategy is to point out to America that it is the Republican Senators who ARE the ones that are standing in the way towards justice being done for REAL high crimes and misdemeanors (not ones just invented by the Rethugs against Clinton earlier). By having control over the committees in both houses, there will be far more opportunity to do extensive investigation to find many guilty parties (both in the executive as well as in the congress) of various crimes that we didn't have before as a minority party.

With the 2008 elections coming up for another set of Republicans after the Dems take majority (but not supermajority power), perhaps we can hang a big "kick me out" sign on them as part of some arm twisting to get their votes that basically says to them, if you want to stay in the Senate past 2008, and perhaps even stay out of prison in some cases, you will vote with us for this impeachment. Make the case that there are tons of people in this administration that have been part of the cabals of the Nixon administration and the Iran Contra affair of Reagan's, that at some point we need to sideline permanently by putting them in prison instead of issuing continual pardons that allow them to return to damage our country and political system more and more.

Also emphasize to certain Republican senators that if they don't exercise their independence on this issue for the above reasons and vote with a Democratic majority, that it will be that much more likely that the Dems get a supermajority in 2008 to fix things then (and likely with a Democratic president then), and if they felt like they ran things unopposed now without a super majority, for them to imagine what the Dems will be like then with a Democratic president and a supermajority in congress that could stifle fillibusters, etc. without any rule changes. Not to mention passing constitutional ammendments on many different things and looking for some judicial impeachments on SCOTUS, etc.

>
>
>

He also said this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1122801#1130688

The third of the Senate with reelection in 2008 will be under a microscope
Edited on Mon May-08-06 03:47 PM by calipendence
They can be told that they are history in 2008, unless they go along with an impeachment if:

a) it is pointed out to them what happened to their Republican buddies in 2006 who got thrown out then. The same will likely happen to them in 2008 if they don't "change course" soon.

b) subsequent now Democratic Party in control investigations start turning up mounds of more evidence of crimes committed by this administration that has the public now DEMANDING Bush and this administration be replaced.

c) giving the Dems this temporary supermajority by voting with them to convict Bushco on impeachment might be their one hope to prevent the Dems from having a president and supermajority congress in 2008, which would give them an even bigger stranglehold than the Republicans have now, making it fillibuster proof, and one that could pass ammendments to the constitution like replacing Roe v. Wade with clear constitutional legal protections for women's choice rights, getting rid of corporate personhood, etc. that would remake our government. If they want the future Republican Party to have any power in that process, they WILL work with them to correct the current Bushco problem NOW.

d) working with the Dems, perhaps they could work out a deal to put in some pardons in place. If the Dems take charge, and do even more investigations in 2008 after Bush's term is over, all bets would be off, and those found guilty and convicted would NOT be pardoned. Though personally, I want VERY few pardons to happen then. It's time that those that have continued to infect administrations from the Nixon years, the Reagan Iran/Contra mess, and now Bushco need to be put permanently away instead of allowed to come back in the future again where they might cause more damage again.

Nixon and the rest of the Republican Party saw similar writing on the wall, which is why he resigned. If he hadn't, the Dems might have had an even more power than they did if they'd gone through an impeachment.

The fact that chimpy's ratings are in the toilet doesn't necessarily translate into a huge groundswell to impeach him, particularly in red states. And red state Senators aren't going to be cowed into thinking that they are at risk. They'll just use the fight as a tool for energizing their base and for arguing that the Democrats don't have any ideas.

Think about what it would take to get a supermajority in 2008. The Democrats would have to hold onto all 12 of their seats that are up and capture 16 of the 21 repub seats. There is virtually no precedent for such a swing. The closest in semi-recent history was the Democrats pick up of 13 repub seats in 1958 (plus two new seats from Alaska and one seat from Hawaii a year later). Keep in mind that even that pick up wasn't enough to give the Democrats a supermajority. The only time that has happened in recent memory was 1964, and keep in mind that a important part of that Democratic supermajority was made up of conservative Senators from southern states.

The fact is that its still not certain that the Democrats will capture the House and/or the Senate in 2006 -- certainly things are going the Democrats way, but there are a lot of close races out there and while I'm optimistic, if the Democrats regain either house, there will be pressure on them to spend time governing, not just investigating chimpy, who will be a lame duck who will be gone in two years regardless of what happens.

Repubs in congress have survival instincts, but they also know who there base is and where their money comes from; I doubt that there is anything that the Democrats could do in 2008 to capture repub seats in a number of states, such as Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, or Kentucky. Keep in mind also that most polls still show that around 2/3 of republicans think chimpy is doing a good job.

Overall, chimpy's numbers are moving towards the Nixonian level. But also keep in mind that the percentage of voters identifying themselves as Democrats was greater back then than today.

All in all, I don't think the scenario described has much chance of playing out.

onenote

I disagree. I think there is a strong possibility that that scenario will play out. My gut instinct tells me that he's definitely not going to be in there in 2008. I'll just put it this way, I'm somebody who's known to be proven right when I go with my gut instinct.

Of course I support impeachment. We're a nation of laws.

American needs to make an example of what a working democracy does to traitors, liars, and thieves who we recklessly allowed to power.

When "leaders" in a healthy democracy turn out to be the evil bunch currently in power, the people in a working democracy must not stand for it.

Impeaching or imprisoning would give the American people a chance to win back some of the good will the shithead and his cronies lost after 9/11.

your post makes the error of letting the best be the enemy of the good

impeachment is good, it should happen, yes, there should be war crimes trials also but impeachment should and must still happen