Army recruits autistic 18 year old for most dangerous job

http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1146882329307730.xml&coll=7


An Army of one wrong recruit
Autism - The signing of a disabled Portland man despite warnings reflects problems nationally for military enlistment
Sunday, May 07, 2006
MICHELLE ROBERTS
The Oregonian

Jared Guinther is 18. Tall and lanky, he will graduate from Marshall High School in June. Girls think he's cute, until they try to talk to him and he stammers or just stands there -- silent.

Diagnosed with autism at age 3, Jared is polite but won't talk to people unless they address him first. It's hard for him to make friends. He lives in his own private world.

Jared didn't know there was a war raging in Iraq until his parents told him last fall -- shortly after a military recruiter stopped him outside a Southeast Portland strip mall and complimented him on his black Converse All Stars.

"When Jared first started talking about joining the Army, I thought, 'Well, that isn't going to happen,' " said Paul Guinther, Jared's father. "I told my wife not to worry about it. They're not going to take anybody in the service who's autistic."

But they did. Last month, Jared came home with papers showing that he not only had enlisted, but also had signed up for the Army's most dangerous job: cavalry scout. He is scheduled to leave for basic training Aug. 16.

how can they allow someone who is autistic to enlist?

(I'm talking the newspaper copy, not the online edition), the Oregonian published a photo of the recruiter's supervisor. The supervisor was looking very pissed, and the caption stated that Sgt was telling the photograper to put away the camera. The article noted that the Sgt talked to the reporter for a few minutes, then grabbed the tape recorder and tried to tear out the tape, stopping only when the reporter threatened to call the police.

a credible source. I found a link to it on Huffington Post, a mostly credible source.

OK, that was bad. :silly:

(I'm getting hungry...)

Fried an assload of tiny bacon cubes (meat-rich), then threw in tomato concentrate diluted in water, and an assortment of herb spices and pepper. Dropped it on al dente penne. Big success with the ladies.

yesterday. Above the fold.

People with Asperger's are often smart but socially inept.

Still though I can't believe that the Army would recruit him. I am hearing impaired, bi-polar and have ADD. I wanted to join the Air Force but I guess they wouldn't take me anyways since I am handicapped, and with bi-polar I have to take meds.

So yeah, WTF?

Blue

You sound like the product of too many psychiatrists (over diagnosing)

are you disabled?

I hope that you can finda good psychiatrist to help you because your disorder(s) don't have to be disabling.

and I'm not being patronizing... but I bet you have something to offer the service. If... and it's a big IF.... the military wasn't so hidebound and anacronistic, people with special skills - but also some disabilities - could serve.

Hell, they won't even let gays serve.

I have almost no hearing in my left ear, and no branch of the military would take me.

Sgt: "GET DOWN YOU MAGGOT!!!"

Jared:

Sgt: "GET DOWN AND GIVE ME 50, MAGGOT!!!"

Jared:


Good job, military recruiters!!!

i was dx'd as a high-functioning autistic and it sounds similar to what i had, i didn't speak when i was a kid except to family members and often then i only spoke to scream, even when i did begin speaking in puberty then i sure didn't say much for many a year

it may be possible this is his choice to get himself out of his shell a little

all autistics are not the same and there is wide variation in abilities

Please tell me its not.

As I noted above, it was on the front page of the Sunday Oregonian. Above the fold.

NO. NO. NO.:cry: NO. NO. NO. :mad: NO. NO. NO.:cry: NO. NO. NO. :mad: NO. NO. NO.:cry: NO. NO. NO. :mad: NO. NO. NO.:cry: NO. NO. NO. :mad: NO. NO. NO.:cry: NO. NO. NO. :mad: NO. NO. NO.:cry: NO. NO. NO. :mad: NO. NO. NO.:cry: NO. NO. NO. :mad: NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!!!! THIS is EXPLOITATION at its WORST.

I don't know whether to break down in tears or be totally and thoroughly pissed off at the idiot recruiters who allowed this to happen.

:cry: :grr:

Don't force young men and women to fight in illegal wars and there's no recruitment problem.

This takes the cake.

"Sure we'll help you out if you're disabled. Just move to Iraq and do a few odd-jobs for us first."

"And tell your family to start saving to pay the army back what we decide you owe, when you get sent home injured or boxed."

The sad thing is, I know many people who would approve if this became policy. My own brother thinks my two wonderful sons have no right to be alive, as they have handicaps, and he's afraid his taxes might go toward helping people like them.

"pro-life Christian" with "family values", right? Sick, sick, sick.

he became a neo-nazi and a member of the Vigilante bikies. Most of whom were nice guys underneath, as I discovered when, as an innocent 16 year old, I spent a night in the Vigilante house, having been tricked there by my brother.

They spent most of the night threatening me with what terrible things they were going to do to me. I took it all as a joke, never believing they'd do that to a sister of a mate, and spent a great night (early 1970s) listening to their fantastic heavy metal music.

But when Laurie got back the next day, and they teased him with stories about gang-banging me, he took it seriously, and my family have called me a bikie-mole ever since. Whatever these guys may have done in other circumstances, they were still more decent human beings than my own family were. ;-)

He used to be a heroin dealer as well, and worked to get Pauline Hanson into Australian politics, a neo-nazi bitch riding on an anti-immigrant platform, but pretended to be a good, pro-family christian. Then he settled down, started going to church and driving around at night to find young homeless girls who he'd "look after". Knowing he was still trying to feel up my little daughter at any family get-together, I felt sick about what I knew he'd be doing to those girls, but couldn't do anything.

And now he's a typical smug fascist; one more smirking, church-going arse-hole who is respected in his community and believes he has got away with it all.

There is good news though. Before becoming a father he went over the handle-bars of his motor-bike, and not all of him made it over.
:toast:

He should go too

I wish you'd been my brother instead. You're wierd in a way that warms my heart.

:pals:

simply incredible.

There are two concerns here:
1) whether enlisting people with developmental disabilities is the way to promote an effective fighting force and,
2) whether a person with autism has the right of self-determination to choose a path for himself, even a dangerous one.

This young man is a grownup, and although I'd advise him to choose a different career, nothing in the article indicates that he is unable to make rational choices.

I agree that military recruiters are out of control, but I don't think the way to illustrate it is to suggest that people with autism are incapable of independence.

Or people who are blind? To do the most dangerous jobs?

Maybe they should. Maybe it's "ablism" to suppose there's something wrong with an army that usually disqualifies people for having flat feet or anal cysts for accepting a person with autism. I honestly don't know.

Are there roles in the armed services for which blind and wheelchair bound people are suited? I believe so. Would I substitute my judgement for that of the disabled person on which jobs he/she can do? No.

If the problem is that military recruiters are so desperate that they'll bend the rules to get recruits, I agree.

If, on the other hand, the prevailing view is an 18 year old with autism does not have the right to choose their own career, I disagree.

Some are, some aren't. A kid who CANNOT engage unless he's spoken to has NO BUSINESS being in such a situation.

Our only dog in this fight is whether recruitment standards and practices are appropriate. I think they are not, but I'm not going to substitute my judgement for this MAN's

understanding of, experience with or exposure to autism. If you had you'd be quite a bit more circumspect about Jared's "judgement."

As the autism ribbon below implies, I have a son who was diagnosed with high-functioning autism. Additionally, I'm on the board of directors for my local chapter of The ARC, the mission of which is to promote the independence of people with developmental disabilities.

I hope that all of the people who are affected with developmental disabilities are equally circumspect about the intrinsic value of your "judgement" as it pertains to your self-assigned duty to preclude their right to exercise self-determination.

Everyone has the right to make their own mistakes. Hopefully, they'll learn from them as I hope you just learned from yours.

and the right to exercise self-determination are worthy goals. Arguing their merits when it pertains to the systemic enslavement of the current *MIC is no more than an intellectual exercise. The cold insensitivity displayed in your posts speaks much louder than your "creds."

As you are well-aware, "High-functioning" is a rather loosely defined description. The tip-offs for me in this particular story are that Jared had no idea about Iraq until quite recently and that he does not initiate conversations. It took many YEARS of hard work to teach my son that skill.

On edit: Read the descriptions of Jared's manifestations in the link below and tell me again that THIS CASE is about self-determination.

Jared was manipulated and LIED TO, as so many youngsters are, by an unscrupulous recruiter. I wish his parents success in wresting their son from the grasp of the military.

SUCCESS!!! :bounce::bounce::bounce:

http://www.tomjoad.org/freejared.htm

Apparently independence and self-determination are worthy goals, but not so worthy that they would allow you to contemplate the idea that Jared has a right to them.

Personally, I think self-determination is a right. You have the right to be pissed off at the choices other legally competent adults make, but not the right to veto them.

In my experience, those that have the hardest time with the idea of independence for those with disabilities are the parents.

are definitively NOT the goals of the U.S. military.

I feel so very sorry for your son and only pray that you "get it" before he's "legally" an adult, if he is not already.

I am DELIGHTED that the NURTURING, KNEE-JERK PROTECTIVE SPIRIT of my "veto," among so many others (TomJoad, I LOVE YOU!!!:loveya:), found its way to support Jared's parents who have been so dedicated to educating and mainstreaming him.

"In my experience, those that have the hardest time with the idea of independence for those with disabilities are the parents."

In MY experience, those that have the hardest time with the idea that their children are "wired differently" and require close monitoring on their way to independence are the parents who, for their own reasons, have difficulties accepting the diagnosis and figuring out what it actually means for their own child. THERE ARE NO ROADMAPS. We're ALL charting them as we go along. I did my bit many years ago observing over a hundred kids and writing laymans' reports for our pediatrician.

Jeff, you and I ARE on the same side. We both have children affected. My kid is an adult. My take on your posts is that you're dealing with a child and what YOU want for him as an adult. Did you read Jared's manifestations? Were they just too frightening? Do you wish to cling to the notion that your son at 18 will be a "legally competent adult?" HE MAY WELL BE and I certainly wish that for you and your family. However, reading your posts on THIS PARTICULAR CASE made me so scared for your baby. For HIS sake, you need to GET IT.

For my son's sake, I do get it. I fully intend that he will be an independent adult just like the ones I work with on a daily basis. I'm not "clinging to any notion", I'm parenting, and working from an assumption that he won't be a competent adult is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You needn't be scared for my son, he has loving parents, who haven't placed boundaries on his future on the basis of a simple label.

His future is bright, if he is given the tools to protect himself from well-meaning adults who wish to validate their own importance by replacing his right to self-determination with their own.

Wired differently does not necessarily mean nonfunctional.

of THIS THREAD. THIS THREAD is about Jared Guinther.

"Diagnosed with autism at age 3, Jared is polite but won't talk to people unless they address him first. It's hard for him to make friends..."

What the information in the articles tells us is that

1. JARED has language and social interaction challenges.

2. His stepmother has been his advocate as her experience with her 2 children tipped her off to Jared's atypical behaviors.

"Jared would play with buttons for hours on end," she said. "He'd play with one toy for days. Loud noises bothered him. He was scared to death of the toilet flushing, the lawn mower."

School and medical records show that Jared, whose recent verbal IQ tested very low, spent years in special education classes. It was only when he was a high school senior that Brenda pushed for Jared to take regular classes because she wanted him to get a normal rather than a modified diploma."

4. Jared was not completely aware of what his enlistment meant.

"Jared didn't know there was a war raging in Iraq until his parents told him last fall -- shortly after a military recruiter stopped him outside a Southeast Portland strip mall and complimented him on his black Converse All Stars."

"When they asked Jared how long he would be in the Army, he said he didn't know. His enlistment papers show it's just over four years. Jared also was disappointed to learn that he wouldn't be paid the $4,000 signing bonus until after basic training.

During a recent family gathering, a relative asked Jared what he would do if an enemy was shooting at him. Jared ran to his video game console and killed a digital Xbox soldier and announced, "See! I can do it!"

5. The recruiters tried to pull a fast one and Jared's comprehension of that is in question.

"Velasco initially denied knowing Jared but later said he'd spent a lot of time mentoring him because Jared was going to become a cavalry scout. The job entails "engaging the enemy with anti-armor weapons and scout vehicles," according to an Army recruiting Web site."

"Jared is disappointed he might not go because he thought the recruiters were his friends, they said."

THIS IS THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THIS THREAD:

"Jared's story illustrates a growing national problem as the military faces increasing pressure to hit recruiting targets during an unpopular war."

the people who are going to be depending upon him to do his job correctly.

I suspect others who have a "dog in this fight"- namely, their own kids- would agree that it's probably a bad idea to have some of their kids depending upon the professional judgement of an autistic man. I know I wouldn't be willing to put my life into his hands in that situation, no matter how 'able' he is otherwise.

I don't care how able your son is- autism of any sort should be an immediate disqualification from military service, period. Nobody should be asked to put their lives in his hands in the same way that nobody should tolerate putting the legally blind behind the wheel of a commercial truck. Be thankful: that also should include the draft.

Blacks and women were (and gays currently are) excluded from military service on exactly the basis you so clearly described.

You "don't care how able" anyone is, because the label makes it convenient for you to place limits on people. I find that more than a little sad.

The disorder isn't their true disability, you are.

Every person is an individual, and each should be allowed to contribute to the limits of their ability. Are their roles for which the guy in the article is ill-suited? Probably. Probably including the one which the recruiter signed him up for. Recruiters lie and decieve people to get recruits. This is not news - it should be fixed - but it's not news.

I have several friends with ASD. In the right role, I'd happily trust my life to them. Some of them have attention-to-detail that cannot be matched by a neurotypical person. I can see that this would be a good trait in an aviation mechanic, for instance.

Not every ASD person is rainman.

I didn't say there's a "right" or "wrong" role, I said I'm sure there are other people who wouldn't be comfortable with placing their lives in the hands of someone diagnosed as autistic. I know I'd be concerned at the least were it my back being watched.

Continuing my analogy from the post above above, people who are partially blind may be able to drive a car... but does that mean they should drive other people around as their job? In either case, the person with the reduced capability may well be placing the lives of others (who very likely do not know of the medical condition, knowledge of which the person with blindness or autism is under no obligation to share with those around them) in jeopardy.

"You "don't care how able" anyone is, because the label makes it convenient for you to place limits on people. I find that more than a little sad."

Go right ahead and feel that way; I personally find it not one little bit sad. It is not so simple as a label: I don't want people who are diagnosed with any mental incapacity to be serving in any situation- civilian or military- that places them in a position of direct responsibility for the lives of others as part of their job. I cannot trust that they are able to fully do the things that may be required to be done in the course of their jobs.

Or- would you hire someone in a wheelchair as a lifeguard?

Where do we draw the "politically correct" line on this issue?

expecting me to be open to the possibility, by your logic, that a partially blind cabbie, or a completely deaf ski slope rescue worker, or a handless firefighter "can do" the job just as well as someone who isn't physically challenged in some way. I can't accept that, just as a simple matter of common sense. In short, we're not talking about the bigotry of excluding the 'other' just because it is 'other' (that isn't my point at all, although being gay myself I understand that aspect all too well); we're talking about exclusion on the basis of actual physical or mental deficiency or incapacity.

Short sidenote: my father wanted to serve in the Vietnam War, but his ostomy surgery and and a bad leg disqualified him. By your logic, he should still have been able to go; this would have endangered the lives of those around him if he'd been deployed on the ground.

"In the right role, I'd happily trust my life to them."

So, that begs the question "what is the 'right' role?" Which is, you'll note, the same sort of 'prejudice' you're accusing me of. I personally don't see this in any way as 'prejudice', because we're talking about actual physical safety. Were it any other reason, I'd probably be agreeing with you, but I draw the line where there's the distinct possibility that others' lives may be put into danger simply by utilizing the wrong person for the wrong job.

On further thought, I'll bend some. I wasn't being quite realistic in my assertion that there's NO job such a person could hold in those forms of employment. I guess I could see this kid getting put into a 'safe' role, but I'm not so sure I know just what jobs in the military are 'safe' and which ones aren't. I suppose what I'm really getting at in the end is that he should be placed into a job where others' lives aren't an issue as far as his service is concerned. I am, however, very concerned about the precedent this all sets.

A person legally blind could, I guess, work as a taxi dispatcher- there's no hinderance there. That said, I sure as hell don't want them driving!

On further thought, I'll bend some. I wasn't being quite realistic in my assertion that there's NO job such a person could hold in those forms of employment. I guess I could see this kid getting put into a 'safe' role, but I'm not so sure I know just what jobs in the military are 'safe' and which ones aren't. I suppose what I'm really getting at in the end is that he should be placed into a job where others' lives aren't an issue as far as his service is concerned. I am, however, very concerned about the precedent this all sets.


This is essentially what I'm saying. In my opinion, an autistic person should not (solely by reason of the label) be precluded from enlisting. If a role can be found which the individual can succeed that serves the organization, then it's all good.

People with ASD have been serving their countries for centuries. Only recently have the diagnostic tools enabled the psychological community to place the appropriate label. The label is useful if it helps the individual. It is useless if the only purpose is to allow the semi-informed to prejudge what the person is capable of.

I'm not suggesting that recruiters act ethically, nor am I suggesting that calvary scout is a good fit. I am suggesting that a person who wishes to serve should have the opportunity, consistent with his/her abilities and the needs of the organization.

It's comparatively easy to choose the kinds of roles a blind person are poorly suited for. It's impossible for autism without looking carefully at the individual. Your initial position was analagous to preventing the paraplegic person from being an air-traffic controller because he would have been unsuitable as a lifeguard.

Gay. Straight. Male. Female. All abilities.

Military. Public Health Service. Peace Corps. VISTA. Park Service. Etc.

Mandatory. :shrug:

i don't think we can support that kind of thing, sorry

Repeatedly debunked. :shrug: To trivialize slavery for the sake of hyperbole is obscene.

by definition forcing someone to work against their will in a job not of their choosing is to enslave them

it is not OK to make a slave of a man just because you are safely beyond the age range of the young people you want impressed into forced work gangs

Take responsibility for your own education ...
Butler v. Perry, 240 U.S. 328 (1916)
Arver v. U.S., 245 U.S. 366 (1918)
Holmes v. U S , 391 U.S. 936 (1968)

As a draftee and Viet Nam veteran, I regard the blatant ageism and ascription to me of base motives to be a despicable ad hominem. Abdication of both objectivity and civility in a discussion most often betrays a bankruptcy of reason and intellectual integrity.

what an ignorant comment.
I can DEFINITELY support mandatory community service of one kind or another for ALL citizens.

Someone with autism has difficutly communicating. Not to pile on the kid, but if he has trouble engaging in normal conversation, how in the hell is he going to be able to comminicate when under fire?

This is fugly. How could he have passed the screening?

as a child i went for years without speaking and even today i have traveled alone to foreign countries where i do not know the language and it's amazing how far you can get w/out communicating

i was dx'd as a kid as a high-functioning autistic but i don't think an ability to engage in so-called normal conversation is the be-all and end-all of life, it's a nice skill to have but the ability to engage in small talk doesn't strike me as being all that very necessary for modern warfare

if he can't follow orders and endangers someone, that's one thing, but many autistics can and do follow orders almost anally to the tee

he may be incapable but he may be perfectly capable and the parents just don't want to let go

how can we tell from a newspaper story?

I've had many autistic students. Some weren't severe and often, it was hard to know they were disgnosed autistic. Others would never be able to handle this. But if the paretns never thought he'd be recruited, I'd think that he was possibly a bit too severe to be recruited. Only a guess, don't flame me! :)

I'm not suggesting that the army should not choose people who can best fulfill the roles. I am suggesting that it's not up to us to prejudge which jobs a person with autism should pursue.

I hope this doesn't mean if there is a draft, an autistic person doesn't have an out for this kind of profession if it is forced.

- in the military - like computer oriented jobs - if they were intent on taking autistic people.

I don't see how he would get through basic training and all the harassment that can go with it - without some kind of accommodations.


I think it's ridiculous.

not all autistics can work w. computers, this is some sort of urban folklore that has sprung up

some autistics don't have any special gift or talent at all, which makes it more challenging for them when their geeky or "creepy" mannerisms causes society to want to push them out of public view

perhaps the young man is hopeless w. computers

perhaps he feels the military is a chance to get out of himself and see the world, but in a structured framework

we just don't know

would be a hell of lot more likely to want to work with computers that they would doing something like being a cavalry scout.

Sure autistic people go into different fields (I said "like computers") - they also tend to gravitate to things that don't involve a lot of upheaval and interaction with other people.

And "Rainman" didn't do computers.

Autistic people DO score high on the systematic scale, however.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/news/page/0,12983,937443,00.html

FWIW, I have a hard time remembering this myself, but among people with developmental disabilities, thre phrases "autistic person" "blind person" "crippled person" are not considered good. In fact, the Washington State legislature recently passed a law called "the respectful language bill" which says that all new publications of the state government will use "people first" language, i.e. "person with autism".

That is all. Go forth and sin no more. O8)

... He will likely be washed out during basic training... The unfortunate part is: He will likely be raked through the preverbial coals before he is washed out.

This dumb draftee saw the tail end of that failed experiment....Jeez louise, we don't want to go there again,

downtown these evening, to ask the School Board to place more severe restrictions on the recruiters. The article is pretty clear that the recruiter in charge of Jared's enlistment didn't do his job and outright lied about Jared's disability by not even indicating it on the paperwork.

I spent 15 years teaching teens with emotional disabilities, and I can easily imagine this situation. Yes, the parents are scared for their son, but it's also a concern about the safety of those others who would serve in a dangerous situation with Jared. From what I've read and heard, he doesn't fully understand the situation he would be involved in. Even the station commander stated that if he had been aware of Jared's autism, he would not have qualified.

If the mother actually made the calls to the recruiter as she reported, and the recruiter refused to even look at the records or indicate that Jared had a disability, then the recruiter was out of bounds, and wasn't following recruiting regulations. There are a lot of disturbing pieces of information in that article that I hope we get follow up answers to.

I'm only an Aspie, though I sound much like him.

I also have numerous other issues that (in the past) I'd be disqualified for. I wonder if that's still the case.

I thought nobody but me had heard of Blakes 7...

Best written Sci-Fi program ever.

Ummm... OK, I had more than a few guys in my unit who were clearly developmentally disabled, including one guy who would have been called autistic or at least severe Aspberger's if his family could afford to take him to a shrink.

Guys like them want to serve, and that's great. But you find the right role for them. Clerk in HQ company. Signals intel hacker. Not "walking in front of a tank, peeking around the corners of buildings to see if anybody's going to try to blow up the tank". There's this myth that the scout and the point man are cannon fodder. They only are if you want the rest of the patrol to die too. You need your absolute best guy out there.

being a person with autism, and over 40...

but the enlistment age keeps creeping up, and now this. :scared:

This is without a doubt the most spectacular mismatch to the skill set of a person with autism in all of recorded history, even worse than the time an acquaintance of mine worked as a driver for a local bank -- right up until his second accident, the very first week. :eyes:

I could actually see some of us employing our talents in something like crypto (though obviously not on behalf of the Bush** war machine!), but cavalry scout?! What :dunce: came up with this plan? The same one who assured us we'd be greeted like liberators, roses thrown at feet, etc.? :grr:

FYI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1135970

The standards for military have plummetted with bush running things.

The reason Jared will be fine is that the people at the Fort Knox reception station will figure out that he has autism, determine that autistic men have no business in the Cavalry, and either send him to another job he would be suited for or send him home.

If he is autistic, he either lives with parents or has
a legal guardian.

His parents can override this.

I know - I am a mother of a special needs child. There is no way that
they can get away with this without the parents consent.

Unless he's been declared legally incompetent he is, and should be allowed, independence.

But the direct answer to your question is that they have been on the phone with the recruiters and the press.

stop this if the parents were interested or if in fact it is true.

It's hard to know how severely his autism affects him from a story, but the bit they told us, if true, probably means he shouldn't be going to Iraq.

Kudos to the media for doing their job, BTW.

stress tends to exacerbate autistic traits and lead to withdrawal from the outside world or to 'meltdown' caused by sensory overload (one of the defining characteristics of autism being an abnormal sensory perception and difficulties with sensory integration). A high-stress combat situation is NOT a good place for someone with even high-functioning autism or Asperger's Syndrome, due to the effects of overstimulation in the differently-wired autistic brain. Quite honestly, I doubt the kid would make it through three days of basic training.

As you know better than most, ASD is not one thing. My family experience with it is not the same as yours.

Setting aside for the moment what constitutes good choices vs bad, or which recruitment criteria are appropriate, which life decisions should the neurotypical community preclude those with ASD from making?

IMO, a diagnosis of autism is far to big of a net to use as a blanket criteria to exclude people from choosing military service.

which it doesn't really sound like this was.

It rather sounds as though the young man in question started perseverating on the idea of joining the service, for whatever reason--and I'm not saying that he might not prove to do well in SOME military occupation, but I don't really think cavalry scout would be it. And then of course you have to consider that his parents found the idea totally unimaginable; some of that might be overprotectiveness, but some might be because they know their son well enough to know that he actually ISN'T suited to joining the military.

to make contacts on his own they supported his independence and trusted the "system" to determine what they already knew. I'm just happy that Jared will not be subjected to Basic Training, where all the hard work his parents have done throughout his life could have been undone in a matter of days, leaving him in a crumpled heap for them to cope with.

...why!!! :sarcasm:
------------------------

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/asthma.htm

New Asthma and ADD/ADHD Policy
From Rod Powers,
Your Guide to U.S. Military.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!

Jun 18 2004
Military Softens Enlistment Standards
The Department of Defense has softened their medical qualification standards for cases of childhood asthma, and history of Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).

Asthma

Previously, any history of asthma was disqualifying, regardless of age. While medical waivers were sometimes possible, waiver approval usually required scheduling and passing a pulmonary function test. Under the new policy, Asthma is only disqualifying if it occurs after the applicant’s 13th birthday.

Medical record screening may still be required, depending on the applicant’s medical history. However, in many cases, a signed statement, attached to the medical pre-screening form, stating that the applicant did not have any type of asthma (including exercise induced, or allergic asthma) or treatment for asthma after their 13th birthday will be sufficient.

Applicants who’ve experienced asthma or reactive airway disease after age 13 will require all medical documentation. Waivers may still be considered, depending on the applicant’s medical history and – possibly results from a pulmonary function test.

ADD/ADHD

Under the old standards, any history of ADD or ADHD was disqualifying. While waivers were sometimes possible, they were among the hardest categories of waivers to get approved. Under the new standards, ADD/ADHD is disqualifying only if the applicant has been treated with ADD/ADHD medication within the previous year and/or they display signs of ADD/ADHD. For applicants with a previous history of ADD/ADHD who have been off medication for more than one year, and they do no demonstrate significant impulsivity or inattention during MEPS processing, the MEPS examining official may find them qualified for military service without submission of a waiver.

Records review is still required. Any history of being evaluated or treated for ADD/ADHD must be documented. As a minimum, all treatment (if any) within the previous three years must be submitted to MEPS, in advance, as part of the medical pre-screening. Full medical records are required if the applicant was ever treated for ADD or ADHD with any medication other than Ritalin, Adderal, or Dexedrine, or if there were any additional psychiatric symptoms, such as, but not limited to, depression.

MEPS may require school transcripts to demonstrate acceptable academic performance for the year without medication. If treatment for ADD/ADHD occurred throughout the school environment, but
wasn’t stopped until after the applicant left school, there is still the possibility of waiver consideration.

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ASPERGER SYNDROME IN MILITARY SERVICE
Roger N. Meyer

http://aspires-relationships.com/articles_as_in_the_military.htm

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Of course the military is lowering it's standards.
They are running low on cannonfodder!!!

honestly I don;t think we should underestimate people with autism.

HOWEVER, when it comes to the PREDATORY practices of recruiters, a LARGE dose of caution is well-advised. In this particular case we see a young man being manipulated into signing up for a job well beyond his capacity.
I'm no Frist but as the advocate for a child so diagnosed, the testimony of Jared's parents outlining his manifestations is enough for me to want this recruiter dropped by helicopter into the nearest ACTIVE VOLCANO.

service in Vietnam?

:spank: :hide: :yoiks:

:spank:

:spank:

one of those individuals.

I'm sure the army did all sorts of "unorthodox" things in a draft situation...I wonder how those kids adapted though...I'm actually kinda interested now, although I suspect this is not a happy story :evilfrown:

A retarded man who was drafted couldn't make it as KP, clerk, janitor, nada zip. Apparently guys tried to help him out to no avail and guys became frustrated so they took him out and shot him in the leg with a .32 cal in the leg. He was returned state side to finish out his duty. Yeah!