Red state women: get your affairs in order. Prepare to die.

When Alito overturns Roe and gives the abortion issue back to the states - I predict this will happen within a year - women in blue states will live. Women in repressive red states will die. That simple.

Why can't the fucking Democrats get this through their heads: ROE, ROE, ROE. Stop this scattershot approach, this nitpicking bullshit and stop being dicks. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS FAVOR CHOICE. Dumping this clown based on his certainty to overturn Roe isn't a really tough call.

The Democrats on the committee aren't coordinated, they aren't focused, they aren't following up, and unless they beat the American people over the head with the simple consequence that this pro-life caveman will actually kill women it's a lost cause.

If tomorrow is again about CAP and Graham and Vanguard my head is gonna explode.

the blue will survive and the red die because they can't adapt... or is it intelligent design ?

in reality banning abortion in red states can only impoverish them in the long run with all the social pressure it creates...

.... I'm a lot sadder about Alito over the Imperial Executive issue than over abortion. Apparently, the women of America, even though they poll to be in favor of abortion rights, don't care enough to not vote for the man they KNEW wanted to take them away.

.... I believe there was fraud in Ohio and Florida, but not everywhere.

Women decided to vote Bush in higher numbers because of the phoney-ass war on terra. So fine, it's their right to vote how they want. But I'll be singing neener-neener at anyone whining when abortions become illegal who voted for Bush**, because it was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT HE'D GET TO PACK THE COURT and he has. And the damage to women's rights is small potatoes compared to the decisions we'll be getting from said court from now until doomsday.

Think of the bizzare reversals in 2002 - georgia, Minnesota...read gregg palast about New Mexico and a few more states...Just because they were not contested....
To the day I day, I'll always believe that W NEVER got more than 30% of the votes. And no one can convince me otherwise.
I will never blame voters for the plight we're in. NEVER.
Since December 12, 2000 we have been a banana republic.

Why would red state women die vs. blue state women?

Overturning Roe won't automatically make abortion illegal - it would simply return the issue to each state to let them decide for themselves whether abortion would be legal within their state.

So, expect abortion to remain legal in the blue states, and be outlawed faster than you can get Mrs. Alito to cry in the red states.

I was confused.

in their own worst interests. :think: That's really sad.

Some red states have a libertarian strak in them, and would keep abortion legal: I would count in that group Nevada, Alaska and possibly Colorado and Arizona. The latter two would be a close call. Also, states like Iowa and New Mexico are barely red. Otherwise, I agree.

All those rich white folks who flock up there for skiing and tourism will now have another reason to come to Colorado and spend their money, eh?

but hell, that's only what the little tramps deserve, right? Not only that, but every time a daughter dies from a botched illegal abortion, she saves her family the expense of a future wedding and allows all family assets to be willed to the male heirs, as they should be.

And yes, I am a sarcastic old bat.

:hug: I love sarcastic old bats, especially since I am also a sarcastic old bat. Nice answer.

... and the thing is, the most cynical imaginable person's thoughts aren't far from the truth any more. Yeah, it's that bad.

Will you attend my funeral?

Can I pick through your belongings? I hope you have an iPod.

Seriously, this is about protecting ALL women - red and blue state alike.

What makes you think that us Red-staters are not against the Alito nom?

ON edit: I have some GREAT albums on wax though! :P

That's okay, maybe you have some cool earrings or something I can rustle.

This isn't about being happy about red state women dying, it's about protecting the rights of all American women. That's why the Democrats need to be dominating the news cycle that this nomination is about Roe, not about Vanguard or CAP. They need to stop dicking around with this.

Eyes in the PRIZE I say..

Mrs. Alito has nothing to with that prize...sad, we can't get past that....

Not you... I am just speaking outloud...

Sorry about the IPOD though! :P

with bumper stickers " we're here, we're queer, we're from California, and we are here to take your guns". (the Phelps Militia no far behind)

They will go to Blue States to get abortions. At least until the Red States make it a capital crime to do so.

That's why we need to begin preparing an underground railroad program. The money will have to be raised from affluent liberals all over the country.

poor women who would not be able to afford to go to spend a couple of hundred dollars for a bus trip and a night in a motel. One could argue that women that poor are dying today.

Decide to withhold funding (medical, transportation, whatever) to ANY state that does NOT outlaw abortions. You'd better believe they've got THAT avenue in mind as well.

I read today in a medical news RSS feed I get about how a clinic in Illinois is no longer accepting patients under 18 from Missouri (I think it was) because of Missouri state law making it a crime to transport a minor to another state to have an abortion. It hit me because it turns the whole "you can always go to a blue state" argument on its head.

however that is formulated for their personal situation.

My mother had an illegal abortion in 1969. It nearly killed her. She was divorced, with 6 kids and a deadbeat dad. Women were not welcome in the work force then, and her pay for being a computer operator was absurd, and left us in poverty. We were the classic working poor. I had a job that paid $1.00 per hour and my sister waited tables in a restaurant. We contributed to the family income to keep food on the table. We were 14 and 16 respectively.

Had she died, we would have been put into the Soldiers and Sailors orphanage. 7 lives destroyed because some irrational moron postulates that a cluster of 100 cells with no recognizable human features has a "soul" that must be saved. And the justification for this irrational belief is a book crawling with bizarre Iron Age dogma, barbarism, and fairy stories about the son of God whose guidance about slavery is not to beat the slaves too much.

My mother couldn't make it to Europe for help, which was the practice of Republicans back then. She could have made it across a few state lines, because she was smart enough to calculate that what she spent would be far less than what she was going to spend if she had another mouth to feed. Not everyone is capable of those calculations. While that is too bad, there is also nothing that can be done to solve the problem for everyone.

But not solving it for everyone does not mean that everyone in Red States is going to die. It didn't happen prior to RVW, it won't happen after.

The only long term solution I see is for this country to split into JesusLand, where people want to live in an Iron Age based theocracy, and the Disunited States, where people want to live in the 21st century.

kind of reminds me of one of my older sister's dilemma. She is fine now.

I cannot believe that we would forget that not everyone in a red state voted to be in the condition they are in. They deserve our support and sympathy, not condemnation. :(

Good reminder, BlueShoes.
I don't think the OP was condemning them for their votes, just addressing the nasty reality of what would happen.

... but who cares? Fact is, stats showed that lots of WOMEN who would normally vote Democrat, voted for Bush over the phony-ass war on terra. Fine, I don't give a crap about them, this is what they asked for, this is what they get.

POOR WOMEN in most red states will be the victims.

Some rich sorority girl in Mississippi who has an unfortunate evening with a boozed up frat boy, can just hop a plane to New York or Illinois to have the procedure done safely and legally.

I had this discussion earlier today with my sons. This is also the case in communities that have no clinics and in states that have only a few.

:cry: I even wrote both my senators which I hardly do since they are rightwingers.

Not just women, but men will rise up. I hope. If we are not all in the camps after 2006. I do not believe in taking away Constitutional rights, by the way. But we will crush them if it happens. What a world, that we even have to look for silver linings about Constitutional retrenching. But if it happens, I sign up for the duration.

Always has and always will. Red States Anti Abortion laws will not stop Red State Women with MONEY from traveling to a Blue State or even out of the COUNTRY to get an abortion. It is poor women, who cannot afford this, who will suffer and die.

As my Aunt, who had an abortion in 1945, told me, "We (her husband included) would have sold our house, if that is what it took." It didn't take that much, but her OB/GYN of 15 years wanted a lot of COLD CASH for her "therapeutic" abortion.

Trolling the Freepers on this, some are saying this will not work without a Federal Ban encompassing ALL States. Some have even stated that not only doctors must be punished with jail time, but the WOMEN as well. "Grandma goes to Jail for having an Abortion" would have been the headline in my Aunt's case.

My Aunt, and Uncle, must be rolling over in their graves.

The need to have an abortion can be avoided.

We know what causes pregnancy.

Use contraception, or abstain if you don't want to get pregnant.

Flame Away!

I just don't think that:

a) we can do much because Alito is likely to be confirmed
b) that it is a given that Roe will be overturned.
c) It's a long road to Tucumcari, and even longer to a case that would overturn Roe.

Now, if the Dems grow balls and filibuster, then maybe we got something!

But otherwise, I think you are over reacting, and there are ways to prevent abortion from being necessary.

What if your contraception fails? What if you're raped?

Just shit out of luck, I guess, in your world view.

pregnancy isn't 100% for anyone unless they've had a hysterectomy, but it's much more difficult among the poor, just as it is much more difficult for poor women to obtain abortions.

But SOME people consistently "forget" about anyone who isn't in or above their own tax bracket.

(By the way, I'm adding to your response, not taking issue with you.)

I know that Medicaid pays for birth control

Understand I am not anti-choice at all.

I don't even think that Roe will be overturned.

That may change your tune just a bit.

help people who are low income.

I remember when my wife and I were low income, I was in grad school, and she worked in a bookstore.

We got contraception from the Planned Parenthood clinic.

Little or maybe no cost to us as I recall.

How much is an abortion these days?

and ask them what it would cost to get birth control pills given the median income in your state. Then ask them how much an abortion would cost if the birth control pills fail.

Birth control pills are not 100% effective. But of course you already knew that.

there are other methods of contraception besides birth control

there are condoms

contraceptive diaphraghms

contraceptive sponges

oral sex

abstinence.

Really, a thought, if you can't afford contraception, then should you have sex? (I know that it is unrealistic to think such things, but an abortion is going to cost a lot more than birth control pills are)

Human nature is such that we seek more personal touch in times of need. Don't expect the stressed out and poor to not have sex. :rofl:

The fact is, birth control (no matter the form) is not 100% effective all the time. Expecting a married couple to abstain from sex on the off chance that they could get pregnant despite being on two forms of birth control (condoms and pills) is simply ridiculous.

When it comes down to it, an abortion is far cheaper than going through a pregnancy. It is far cheaper than raising a child that you can't afford.

:toast: Thanks for the laugh, though.

Glad you find it funny

I'm pro choice by the way

but I believe that abortion should be safe, rare and legal.

And I don't really find it a laughing matter.

Enjoy propping it up.

my support of choice

my not finding abortion funny

my gladness that you find my posts funny?

which is it

I'm just dying to know

now that you've edited your post? :rofl:

Nice one, champ. :toast:

on edit: You suggest that I find abortion funny. Your post was downright indignant that I supposedly find abortion funny. I do not find abortion funny. I do find your stance that people that cannot afford birth control ought to abstain from sex damned, damned, damned funny.

I'm still giggling. :rofl:

Again I'm glad you find me so funny. I suggested that you might find abortion funny because you had multiple :rofl: about my post, and I don't find abortion funny. But you find me funny. I guess that I'm glad I have made you laugh. If I haven't done anything else good today, then making you laugh was good, eh?

I find your amusement at my posts quite funny really.

I say I was indignant.

I probably should have put the :sarcasm: sign by abstain from sex

I did say I know that isn't likely or realistic, I didn't say that I certainly would think that to truly suggest that would be shall we say, STUPID

I guess that I find the abortion argument such a complicated one, and one that I have a strong emotional response to due to my wife and my experience with not being able to get pregnant and going through IVF, that I should really just stay out of a thread on this.

Again, I am pro choice

who do actually believe that married people should abstain from sex if there is any possibility that the woman could get pregnant (if it meant ending that pregnancy in an abortion).

I used an example of my own pregnancies once during a discussion on abortion with a fundie. My dh had a vasectomy after our last child was born. I managed to get a rare antigen through a blood transfusion during my first pregnancy. He happens to carry it as well. Our last pregnancy was the first pregnancy to be affected by the antigen. It can potentially cause severe anemia in the fetus, possibly requiring a rather dangerous blood transfusion to the fetus during the later stages of pregnancy. Each subsequent pregnancy gets worse. Given that, we decided enough was enough and cut off further offspring.

The nameless, faceless woman on another message board suggested that I abstain from having sex with my husband on the off chance that I could get pregnant (despite his vas being removed), since dh and I would likely opt for an abortion.

So yeah, you hit my funny bone quite hard.

I guess my funny bone was hit as well.

I certainly didn't mean to hit yours, it sounds like you went through enough hell without anyone needing to say something as insensitive to you about your problem as abstain from sex.

Peace!:hi:

If you can't afford contraception, and you're married, what do you do then? Become 'pals' with your spouse?

You seem to have this image of young single girls out tramping, which is overly simplistic.

Sex is for tramps. Hell, if you're married, you shouldn't be doing such disgusting things! :sarcasm:

you got big problems

your gonna get pregnant

then I guess you are either gonna have it or have a baby

it's a shame that anyone would think that abortion is an acceptable form of birth control

birth control should be cheap, easy to get, and available to anyone that wants it, no argument there at all.

You clearly do not get it. Some people use two forms of birth control - which, by the way, isn't 100% effective - and still end up pregnant. They tried to prevent it and yet they find themselves preggers. I wouldn't term it "birth control".

That you do speaks volumes.

I said:
"it's a shame that anyone would think that abortion is an acceptable form of birth control"

I don't believe it is birth control, and I would be appalled at anyone who thought it was a form of birth control.

Do you not get it?

He's not sure there's still a need for an Equal Rights Amendment.

are you just gonna give me hell all over the place?

:hurts:

Entertaining person, that one.

:)

look it up

:rofl:

outta that little yellow guy tonight. :D

I said I voted yes

(support it)

I asked if it was still needed

and if it was, why there wasn't an outcry for it amongst democrats.

I haven't heard about it since I was a teenager, and I remember the teachers at my school (some liberals eh) said that ERA was going to mean we all had to use the same bathrooms. Not exactly an accurate representation of the ERA do ya think?

So I don't know what the fuss is about my question really.

contraception for a sexual adult.

As someone who used IVF to conceive a child, I find it hard to understand the concept of being pregnant as being "shit out of luck" if you can't get an abortion.

Again,I think it is a long slog that will not materialize anytime soon, if ever, to have abortion illegal.

As to rape, how do you know that abortion wouldn't be legal in such circumstances?

There is also the idea of using more than one form of contraception if you are worried about getting pregnant.

I just don't think that it is a death sentence for red state women

that's just overstating the situation

But I think that having to carry a rapist's child because of the cramped moralism of this bunch is indeed being 'shit out of luck'.

What was right for you won't be right for everyone else.

I said I didn't understand the sentiment of being pregnant and not being able to get an abortion as being "shit out of luck"

Again and again, and I say this, I am pro choice

I don't think Roe will be turned over

I don't know the future, but I don't think that the public sentiment is on the side of making abortion illegal.

Certainly not every woman wants or needs to be pregnant.

And I've seen many that had no business being pregnant that were and were happy about it.

Peace

:rofl:

I'm not terribly interested in being polite about your cluelessness on the issue of pregnancy.


NOT a single pro-choice Democrat wants to see MORE abortions. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Safe, legal and rare is a great mantra. Try it on for size.

but glad you are here to keep hammering it to me

as I've been a democrat all my voting life (28 years since I voted for Carter at age 18)

I certainly hope there are no pro choice dems that would want to see more abortions.

I would certainly hope that safe rare and legal would mean that we would want to keep them safe, and legal, but try to create atmospheres where they are rarely performed.

The argument here that I got from reading some posts here is that contraception is expensive and so when women get pregnant because they can't afford contraception, they should get abortion.

Now I may be taking this wrong. I would hope that we as democrats work as hard to keep contraception available, inexpensive, and common, so that abortions would be rare.

:woohoo:

available, inexpensive, and common, so that abortions would be rare."

Now THAT I can agree with you on.
:toast:

I do not see it happening at all unless they are 100% guaranteed to win all the future elections. Abortion is their great wedge issue and they will not ever give it up. If they do give it up that means we are totally fucked anyway because we will have permanent one party rule.

of the last women in Kansas died from a botched illegal abortion.

She was in her early 20's, and bled out.
I wish Sam Alito could have been in the room to watch her slip into her sheet white unconsciousness, and listen to her ekg monitor alarm announce her death.

Perhaps then he might realize the barbarity of his positions taken under the senile nod of the actor Ronnie Raygun.

Perhaps not, maybe he would stand there smugly as we failed to get whole blood and plasma going into her as fast as her life ran out and say that it was God's justice. But if so, he would have been there for me to eviscerate with a dull curette. And Goddess knows, at that moment I would have.

Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973. I'm just curious. Were there no clinics in Kansas yet?

And there were still no places to get a safe abortion in her area of the state.

So she found someone local.

This always amazes me when I see a room full of men signing laws that are anti-women; I'll bet if their wife or daughter was in danger of losing her life in childbirth, they would be allowed an abortion!! I'm so tired of having the republicans dictate to us what we can or cannot do in our private lives; it's none of their business. The Democrats had better wake up and get back on the right track again. We just keep going backwards, especially in the last four years.

:evilfrown: :mad: :argh:

Doomsday predictions aren't going to make people more receptive to the message.

the women in those red states will wake the fuck up and start voting Democrat and make them blue states.

"Vanguard" proves he is a corrupt coorporate whore and "CAP" proves he is a sexist/racist or a lying suckup.

Besides, there was plenty of talk about Roe today, Durbin nailed alito on whether roe was "settled law".

..his past rulings RE: affirmative action and asking him WHY the Woman Lawyers are against him. What are his attitudes about women in the workplace, equal pay for equal work, and discrimination - ESPECIALLY given his past record of rulings on such matters.

Hellooooooooo?

Is ONE goddamned pantywaist Democrap going to ask him about these things? WHAT GOOD ARE DEMOCRATS TO THE WOMEN OF THIS COUNTRY IF THEY WILL *NOT* STAND UP TO THIS CRETIN AND ASK THE TOUGH QUESTIONS?

WHERE are OUR representatives in gov't (women)?

WHERE?

Oh. That's right. WE DON'T HAVE ANY.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


:mad:

...that'll fix'em. They'll all be henpecked when it's over



(I know the issue itself is not funny)

Ted Kennedy and Patrick Leahy will not vote for him. Joe Biden? Well, if what I heard the other day is consistent, then he won't either. Most of our big names, like Kerry, Feingold, and (possibly) even Hillary Clinton (if she's smart) will not vote for him. Harry Reid will not vote for him, and neither will Robert Byrd.

It's the ones that have slid off the radar recently that will vote for him--DiFi, Bayh, Nelson & Nelson, etc.

She's solidly pro-choice. Landrieu probably will, though.

beng called "baby killers"--just once, I'd like to have someone turn around and snap back "well, You're a WOMAN KILLER!"

JUST ONCE....

Expense be damned. The only place I have ever felt I truly belonged. Certainly for all the years I have spent in the south, I never felt at home here. In Texas, Austin is the only really good place but my rights are endangered even in Austin so California here I come!

liberals and democrats are having the most abortions so their voting base is getting larger while ours does not (and no shit, this is something I heard last year on a smoke break - yes I am an evil smoker....oh and you don't have choice over your body as to where you will have a beer or work.)