If Nancy Pelosi knew about this eavesdropping on America...?

Then she should step down. And any other Democrat that was informed of this and remained silent. It is obvious that they do not have the independent judgement to be in a leadership position or on the intelligence committees. We cannot control what the majority Party does but we can determine who the Speaker is and who sits on the committees. This is simply unbelievable. I cannot believe so many were so silent...

Silence is complicity.

I don't know. I'm just asking the question

No one is bound to be silent in the face of tyranny.

Because you are sworn to secrecy? Where is the independent judgement? Is every Democrat like Jane Harman?

And would be arrested on Federal charges.

If they'd gone to jail for speaking out and the American people had known the truth, there would have been such a public outcry, that I don't think they would have stayed in jail.

imo...

It shows when the chips are down. And they damned sure were down!

Remember the letter to himself Rockefeller wrote when this first broke?
I don't know what's justifiable, but that's probably why they felt they couldn't talk.

n/t

Pelosi and whoever were criminally craven, without hyperbole.

That was covered on Ed's show today

Rockefeller couldn't even consult a lawyer about it.

She could have been a hero.

Instead, she comes out looking like a zero.

Imagine what the pro- Judith Miller reporters would have said if
Pelosi were investigated by the Justice Department. She'd lose a lot
of personal popularity (not) but such an incident would create a
constitutional crisis that would destroyed the GOP... Her silence
is evidence that Dem leadership is even now reluctant to look "shrill."

my head off. :eyes:

That is my argument in nut shell. I am sitting here in tears right now thinking about these amazing women who gave their everything for rights they didn't even have yet. How would they judge Pelosi today?

The Freedom Riders know something about jail, so does Nelson Mandela. As a person I don't care what she does, but as a leader shame on her.

Your information is wrong.

People have a duty to take action when illegal activity is taking place. That includes members of Congress.

These asswipes are just hiding behind a specious defense that has no basis in fact. They're as guilty as Fuckface in this one.

I admit to not knowing if she is, but unless she is how could she know for sure it is illegal? Barring that certain knowledge, what could she do?

and when you see that an illegal operation is taking place - oh, the NSA is wholesale gathering private data without a warrant or FISA court approval - you have a duty to act.

You think only lawyers have to report crimes?

No. Citizens report crimes.

She blew it.

the call of duty sometimes! Soldiers are government employees and they get fucking dead sometimes, defending the constitution, because they swore they would, just like the government employees in congress swore to. They begged for the jobs they have...it's an ALL VOLUNTEER CONGRESS TOO!

NANCY AND JAY NEVER EVEN GOT FREAKIN' DRAFTED!

By law, the "appropriate members" may NOT reveal anything about being briefed. They may not even talk about this to other members who were briefed. It is forbidden.

So Nancy's choice was to accept the briefing knowing that silence was required, or refuse the briefing before she knew anything about what she was going to be briefed on! That's a hard choice.

I'm sympathetic about the difficulty of the choice.

but that useless Jane Harmon sure as hell did. She absolutely infuriates me.

Please California, throw her ass out and get Marcy in that Congress.

gives me the creeps.

Any Congress member who knew about this and refused to step forward because of some oath of silence is part of the problem. The times call for heroes, not accomplices.

Was he told, do you think?

WASHINGTON - May 11 - This Administration’s arrogance and abuse of power should concern all Americans. That the government may be secretly collecting, and using data mining to analyze, the phone records of millions of law-abiding Americans, as reported in the press today, is a frightening prospect. I am unaware of this program, and Congress needs to find out exactly what the Administration is doing and whether it is legal. It is time for the Administration to come clean with Congress and the American people. We can effectively fight terrorism and protect privacy, the rule of law, and separation of powers, but only if we have a President who believes in these principles.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2006/0511-16.htm

I hope none of them knew...

She's been doing a great job lately, and I have ZERO reason to believe she knew full details of this. Why so accusatory of her already? Why not erring on the side of support? I mean, she's only the fucking minority House leader, why support her? :eyes:

She's been doin great, and I see no reason for there to be some bitchin fest about her. Right now it is the administration and corporation that deserves the fucking bitchin, but whatever.

How's that for a reason for dumping on her?

Did you see her when Russert did that routine, and she said absolutely nothing?

She's worthless, and should go, too.

I support her 100%, and have a stronger conviction than one in which it would be destroyed or reversed by some petty complaint of a time she didn't act or speak in a way 100% in line with my desire.

I'm proud as hell of her for the shit she's dealt with and the ways in which she's handled it. This alarmist thread of "ooooh, if she did something I want her gone" is so unproductive and misguided in my opinion.

To have the widest negative story of the * administration probably ever making its way around the country tonight, and yet find the need to already turn the hatred and bitterness on good courageous dems, is friggin mind boggling to me.

Try "dereliction of duty."

What, exactly, is "courageous" about anything Pelosi has done, and what about her appearance and slavish behavior with Russert the other day?

You need a better hero. You deserve it.

I don't see this as just us against BushCo the whole government had a hand in this. If she was told, then she had a job to do and it didn't involve a Rubber Stamp. Be it fear or be it incompetence if she knew she should be tossed out of office like the rest of them.

We say again, "IF" she knew about this and remained silent, she does not deserve to be in the leadership position. And neither does any other Democrat. This is not about Democrat vs Republican - this is about all of America.

what has she been doing that is so great? EVER???

question would be a complete waste of my time.

But whatever. On a night where americans have come together against shrub and his administration more collectively than probably ever, feel free to instead attack dems. Real friggin effective. I almost feel like quoting Nancy's "Shame, Shame, Shame", but alas, I shall refrain.

about eavesdropping on 200 million Americans, perhaps even their political enemies, perhaps even Pelosi herself?

the Constitution, not the President.

They should all resign in shame. All of them. Leahy nailed it.

I'm so sick of these enablers who are nothing but suckasses.

craft and defended the free world, because they were scared that what might have been waiting there, was going to harm them? My wife's great uncle and hundreds of other Americans didn't go to jail on D-Day, they went someplace a HELL of a lot more permenent than jail. They left this world defending the things they promised to fight for. God bless the Americans who gave their lives for our freedom and liberty. God bless the protectors and defenders of the Constitution of the United States of America.

God damn the cowards who would calmly and willingly just stand by and let the Constitution and the rule of law, be trampled and trivialized and rendered useless and nil, like it was a piece of trash.

I do not mean to be blasting these people in my own party, the party in which I've been a member for 35 years, for the fun of doing so, or just talking shit to hear my head roar. I mean to shame them ALL, Republican, OR Democrat, into being Americans, into doing the job they swore to do.