The more I think about it, Nancy Pelosi really has to go...

She has been informed on all of these NSA dealings and never spoken up until the press releases the info and the public is irate. It seems the only time she seems to care is when the public is upset and it seems advantageous to do so.

Every time she has one of these press conferences she makes all Democrats look like fools. My main reasons for wanting her out of leadership.

-She was just recently touting how we need to keep troops in Iraq.

-She has been given information about the Government's NSA programs previously and never said a word against it until it is too late

-She is a consistently contradictory changing opinions on subjects based on polls and public sentiment and not because she is forward thinking enough to change things.

-She helped introduce pathetically weak lobbying reform bills without any sort of enforcement mechanism

-She buried John Conyers (whom, by the way I would prefer as Democratic leader) on MTP stating she was the leader, because he actually showed a backbone and stands up to Bush and the Administration

-She seems happy with the way Washington Establishment works (see: Chuck Schumer) and looks for the moderate stance rather than the correct one.

-She is an ineffective leader who gets nothing done on the House floor and completely turns average people off to Democrats with her weak kneed speeches.

-She waited all the way until last week to unveil a plan from the Democrats (which people have been asking for as an alternative to the Republican Keystone Cops for years now) and even though we're outnumbered in the House she still only comes up with suggestions that will go in place should we win in November.

I just think she's become a ridiculous joke and emblematic of how Democrats in Washington come off to people. Ineffective, involved in everything that's going wrong but unwilling to admit it and worse, having no backbone to do what's right for Americans rather than what Bush wants or what their special interests want.

We need to be better than them and Pelosi has not done her job in being the leader of the opposition at all.

Anyone who was briefed on the NSA datamining and said nothing deserves to be ousted from their positions (if not their seats) in Congress.

Rp

the Dem leadership was having trouble arguing this NSA thing because they were briefed and never fought against it. Now when it's become public, they don't know what to say!

only a small few actually knew and Pelosi was one of them. For the Dems who were complicit they need to keep their mouths shut about it, yet there was Pelosi holding a press conference looking stupid.

Rp

I would think there are serious limits on what they can say about those briefings.

It's the GOP that leaks

have said in the damn press conference! I was briefed, I was under a security restriction not to say anything! I didn't like i then, and I don't like it NOW!

Unfortunately, that's not what she said, is it?

But she could have voiced serious objections AT the briefings and now with it out there and her talking about it she has not once said she did so.

Rp

Just sorta curious.

She could have stood there at her little podium yesterday and said, "And I was there loudly objecting to this program. We are not allowed to give the details of the briefing but I was clearly in opposition as were my Democratic colleagues."

But she didn't say that because she didn't object. And thus we look like fools in this whole thing.

Rp

It is not legal. Some things our congressional reps are privy to via briefings ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE SPOKEN OF outside of the briefing! :eyes:

...to uphold and defend the "Constitution," not the administration or the "people." You want to see a Constitutional crisis? See the sparks fly if the Repubs would were prosecuting a courageous congresscritter for revealing illegal actions by the executive branch. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

If someone was swearing me and threatening me with legal action to essentially listen to their plan to break the law, I'd tell them to fuck off.

Rp

It's illegal to be silent about telling people when you are informed that the laws are going to be broken?

I'm sorry but I call BS on that. A patriot stands up and says, "Hey these guys were trying to keep us silent about how they planned to break the law."

There's too much hypocrisy in that.

Rp

Even if they stood up and raised hell during one of them for whatever reason, they aren't allowed to say so.

So obviously she could say she objected even if she kept it vague now.

Rp

She cannot say what went on in there.

of late.

THERE ARE LEGAL LIMITS and it seems DEMS are the ones who still respect the law.

to protect the law by abiding a secret session that tells Dems how they plan to break the law.

Whatever.

Rp

Other than that, I think she's trying to play a "moderate" since she's in the position she's in. She won't appeal to the middle and far left on issues like Iraq and the "War on Terror"...

should someone uphold the law to protect a conversation in which criminal acts are being discussed?

I think not personally. I'd let them charge me with a crime and spout out right away their treasonous plans.

Rp

but you're right, she's spouting all the seemingly DESTRUCTIVE talking points.

One reservation, don't want Harold Ford, Jr. because I remember his caustic attacks on her for <drum roll> BEING TOO LIBERAL. :grr: Nancy Pelosi is a great public speaker and earns big bucks in fundraising ... let her go back to that role?

But yes, IMO we need MURTHA to take Pelosi's position!?!

He seems to have become way too cozy with the Washington Insiders...

Frankly it's time for new blood. New vision and new direction. Democrats who are there for the people and for the right causes. Ones that are not looking to protect their seat for eternity but rather there to fight for the rights of the average American and the future of our country.

I think it's time to move left. The country is ready to shift much further left after being taken on this ride from hell to the far right by Rove and the Bushes.

We have Clintonites like Chuck Schumer and Rahm Emanuel fighting Howard Dean over money for campaigns while Schumer goes state to state and railroads liberal candidates (Paul Hackett in Ohio and they're currently railroading the MUCH better Senate candidate Ford Bell in Minnesota for safe moderate Amy Klobuchar who doesn't understand or have any real position on issues).

It's time to fight for the soul of our party. People like Dianne Feinstein need to go.

Besides beating Republicans we need to start challenging Washington Establishment Dems with real liberals that see America for what it is and want to really fix the broken system.

Rp

They're all in bed together. Sure, the dems are not vicious, fraudulent, evil and cold blooded, but on the other hand, they don't seem to have any spine, or care much about what's being done to this country, and the american people. They really just would like to get re-elected, and keep their positions in congress.

If they get cheated out of power along the way, it's no big sweat to them. If fraud gets perpetrated on the american public, no biggie, they're still in better shape than most. Pelosi is just spewing talking points, and basically telling people that we object, we're pissed....but don't worry, we're not going to really do anything about it. Maybe a committee or two, but wouldn't want to upset the other side or act like we care.

I keep looking for a reason why this country is so great, at why we need to fight to save it, when all I see is lack of caring by many of those who are supposedly in power to lead us in that direction. One side wants to knock me down, take away my rights, and cripple me financially....the other side feels different, but doesn't have any plans to get back at those who caused the demise of this country, and create the mess we're in.

I can't help escaping the feeling that once the people on DU realize that it truly is "too late," that it will then be "too late" and we'll be like the people on the Titanic, who were left wondering, "What happened to all the boats?"

is unsustainable in the long run, but can be kept going for another few decades with the use of our military. They must the resent the Republicans' ownership of the "red meat" issues and the neo-con fear agenda; to put forth a real program of health care, environment and trade reform is just going to accelerate the inevitable collapse, because there's no way the Dems can call for the elimination of the "American way of life" and survive politically.

I agree: we're screwed.

I don't care if it's male or female.

But it sure as fuck ain't Pelosi.

Someone who won't stammer or trip themselves up. Someone not afraid to say what they mean, and mean what they say. Someone who can put the GOP/media/pundit spin machine in their place. I'm tired of the pussy-footin' around - there's little respect in that.

they haven't really attacked her they do other Dems. Sure, they have talked about her, but not as vicious as they could - like they have been holding back.

They only go after the ones that present a problem. They always consider Pelosi a little mouse whom they have no fears of.

Rp

corrupted by influence peddlers just like Clinton

Personally, I think they're sitting quietly, just waiting for the repukes to hang themselves with their own rope. And I think it's working. Now, some certainly think they should be being a lot louder, a lot more condemnatory, but remember, you risk turning a large segment of the population's sympathy if you do that. We're a contrary people, we Americans - if we start to perceive someone, even an evil cabal of corporatist goons, as an underdog, we start to feel sorry for them. That worked against the repukes when they were unrelenting in their attacks on the Clintons - some people who originally agreed with them started to feel they should just let it go. Now, obviously the situations aren't analogous - the Clintons weren't rank traitors deserving of International Criminal Court, and these MF's are - but it's the public perception I'm thinking of here. And the general public only hears the volume, not the substance.

Now, I can't say whether or not the "give 'em enough rope" strategem is a wise one or not, but rather than being total nonentities, I suspect that's what they're doing.

The pukes have enough rope now to hang every puke in the House and Senate and enough left for most of the Executive branch as well. The pukes have been sticking their heads through nooses for years now, while mealy mouth democrats just stand there. The NSA crap. The monetary corruption ala Abramoff. The Signing Statements. The destructive fascistic legislation they have been peddling. The whoring for the corporations. The Corporate War for Oil in the Middle East. When do you think enough rope is enough? I thought this milquetoast argument had vanished from DU months ago. :eyes:

They have enough rope to stretch across the Earth.... what more do they need? Pounce fucking now.

Rp

She would surely risk arrest and prosecution if she were to reveal classified information.
Where do you think the press got the story? Cheney's office? The press has broke the story, and now it's time for the national discussion.

prosecution for whistleblowing and our great Democratic leaders don't? Not very democratic, is it?

Nancy disappointed me last time she was here at home and said we should use the ballot box to resolve the quagmire in Iraq. As if she believes we still have clean elections. And if she does, she hasn't picked up a newspaper in too long.

We campaigned for Nancy from her first run. I don't think we will again. It's too bad, really.

Personally, her impeccable liberal credentials would compel me to vote for her.

system studiously?

:)

If you've entirely lost faith in our ability to have free elections, then your ONLY options are a revolution, or leaving the country.

our elections. But, thanks anyway. :)

that clinched it for me.

She left me just exasperated with the limp responses. And that was in as friendly a territory forum as you could get.

She has gotten even worse since then. The Republicans will marginalize her into oblivion.

She would make a good ambassador to one of the troubled foreign nations in a Democratic administration. She would be perfect for that.

To uphold the Constitution and to protect the Republic

I bet if Woolsey had been privy to the info, she would have taken a stand.
Ditto Barbara Lee, Conyers, Maxine Waters, Cynthia McKinney

? And Cynthia McKinney is nuts.

I was away this afternoon but when I got back I heard the report that Pelosi has made a statement (not sure if this was today) that when she is elected Speaker of the House she will not support impeachment of Bush.

Now, even Joe Scarborough said that if the evidence leads to impeachment it would be her obligation support it. He is exactly right.

Pelosi might be in for some big surprises. There is no guarantee that the Democrats will takeover the House. If they are that fortunate, the Democrats might push forward another candidate. She does not have that election sewed up.

With all that Bush has done against America - impeachment should and must be done once the hearings gather all the evidence against him. I don't want to chance having someone as weak as Pelosi standing in the way.

Democrats can no longer overlook Pelosi's stammering. She needs to go. There is much work to be done and she is not the one to restore America.

leader. Dems need Conyers.

Nothing against her whatsoever, just not getting it done.

It's not personal, just business.

Of all people, Joe Scarborough ends up lecturing our "leader" about the nonsense of taking impeachment off the table.

She is now the poster girl for the oldest GOP joke in DC: "Gosh for a minute there I thought they might actually DO something."

It's time to choose sides -- Impeachers or Appeasers.

--

The Dem party needs leadership in a bad way.

Nancy may mean well, but she's not the right "minority" leader for the times.

:shrug:

Do the Repugs pay them or WHAT?1&%#?

Representative Pelosi:

What can you possibly be thinking to promise that a Democratically controlled Congress would not pursue Articles of Impeachment against George Bush?

We voters are pissed--mad as hell--and if we turn out in numbers sufficient to return Congress to Democratic control, then it is incumbent upon those elected Democrats to represent the will of the people. If lying about a blow job in the Oval Office is sufficient for Republicans to generate Articles of Impeachment, what more must this country endure before Democrats step up to fulfill their Constitutional obligations?

The town council of my town, Chapel Hill, NC, voted UNANIMOUSLY last Monday to support Articles of Impeachment against George Bush for these reasons:

--Lying to Congress and the American people to start the Iraq War

--Violating human rights by detaining suspects without due process and
torturing prisoners in the U.S. and overseas

--Unleashing a massive wiretap and spying operation against citizens of the United States in defiance of the Constitution

The Council passed a resolution, in part, that said Bush "has acted contrary to law, and violated his oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States".

http://www.newsobserver.com/712/story/437391.html

Please stop promising to continue to be wishy-washy, namby-pamby Democrats
should the party be so lucky to wrest control of Congress away from Republicans.
Just whose side are you on, anyway?