Where we do well, and where we need to improve (personal analysis of dems)

This is strictly personal -based off last two months of interacting with white and blue collar workers from bars, to work, to parks, neighbors, et al.

1. Good: People don't like/trust bush and crew. From repugs to dems to those who vote both (like mom used to) folks are not liking the bushmeister. Good.

2. Bad: People still see liberals as bad and will still vote the same way they have been. They see this admin as bad like we want them to, but they don't see our ideals as better across the board - ie, we have done a good job demonizing the people but the ideals are not being adressed.

3. Good: War in Iraq is seen as a mess and people want us to just leave.

4. Bad: Folks see the idea of getting rid of saddam as good, that clinton and dems wanted to, but didn't do jack to get it done. Repugs will go kick ass while dems just keep passing laws or imposing sanctions which don't seem to work.

5. Good: 9/11 was able to happen because bush is an idiot and did not do anything to prevent it.

6. Bad: liberals are viewed as enabling the terrorists by saying things like 'we deserved it cause us americans suck and are evil', it was not really planes but drones that hit, no plane hit the pentagon, etc and so on.

Bottom line is this - people think government sucks, and since bush in charge he too sucks. But liberals suck more because they blame us, enable terrorists by excusing their actions, want to keep us from smoking in our bars, and are good at pointing out the bad with bush and with our country but suck at telling us what they offer, what is good about us, and why we should vote for them as opposed to voting against someone (who is no longer running).

So I guess I am wondering - what is the image we are projecting? Is it one of 'they suck, so vote for us because we suck less' or is it 'vote for us because here is where we can do better'?

Folks see clinton and waco/okie city and then see bush and 9/11-iraq. They see big government as the same no matter who is in charge. Bitch about those in power, vote em out, get the same shit different admin.

It is frustrating to me because I see us progressing under dem controlled government but our message does not seem to be resonating with the avg Joe. And maybe sometimes we are reacting by telling the avg Joe they are idiots (your religion sucks, you watch too much tv, you don't care about environment, etc and so on). Why would someone listen to someone who is telling them how inferior they are??

At any rate - just my 2 cents and what I have heard over time. My most progressive friend, and really left liberal (who also works for me), is pissed off over smoking bans (he smokes) and may vote locally for a rethuglican as he sees them as the party of less laws and dems as the party of more - on abortion,etc, we rule - but on local politics it seems like we want to control everything from smoking to garage sales.

It makes no sense and yet it does - mom always voted locally republican and federal democrat because she saw the dems as more controlling on most issues than republicans.

Enough said - I disagree of course. But I think we are doing poorly on getting our message out as to why people should elect us vs conservatives. We can harp all day about bush, and get rethugs to agree with us - but in the end elections are about more than one person, and if our message is 'they are worse than us' what does it gain us?

Please no flames - I am open to honest discussion. Maybe you are hearing different outside of Ohio and I am totally wrong. just wanted to share what I have heard/seen here.

A few points -

It is hard to get a message out when the media prefers repug sound bites to reasoned enlightened thinking.

The left tends to think in shades of grey - that is a strength to gain information and let our views evolve. I am not sure if it is tied to intellect - it is certain that there are representatives of the intellectual bell curve across the political spectrum. It is rooted, I suspect in people's particular paradigms - how strong their belief system is in terms of making the truth completely opaque to them.

I also think that it is not so much right/left, but professional politicians vs the grass roots movements. It is not clear to me that either party represents us well these days - there is way, way too much greed, special interests, etc.

I try to stay positive, but have to admit that when things get like they are after 5.5 years of the everything-I-touch-fails so called president, it is tempting to crawl into a place that is good for us and let the world go by! But then I get online, read the excellent, well thought out posts at DU, and regain the energy to fight for what is right (actually, what is NOT "Right"!)

Thank you for your post and not a flame.

Discussion with some people such as yourself is refreshing.

They want straight talk, in easy to swallow phrases, and an aura of confidence and competence. They blame the Dems for not running a better candidate than Kerry. They'll flock to Dems if we act like we have our act together and focus on the main issues, and not get sidetracked going overboard on minority rights. That's my reading of the typical white male vote.

I believe an historic realignment if possible if only we had leadership to capitalize on it.

Dems want to help us more with civil rights, welfare, and so on whereas they also want to control us more by telling us how to live (absent religion in a nameable form).

Most the minorities I know are black and hispanic, and are christian (baptist and catholic). The dems are seen as attacking them on one hand, and defending on another (one based on belief, the other on race).

We are a big tent made up of many small tents. And sometimes it seems like a circus. Vote for us - your race will be protected, but your beliefs are crap type of thing.

My friend Jorge is a good example. A black guy that moved here with his family many years ago. He votes republican (and is in Afghanistan right now with his guard unit) and has complained to me many times that black liberals here have lambasted him for getting ahead in his job - said he is losing his blackness. He works hard, makes good money, and his last GF was at odds with him because he was not like other black men - ie, he was playing whitie's game and having a career.

There is a whole spectrum of beliefs out there under our tent, and I respect them. But I think some of them are not helping us to progress towards a better place. Why is my friend Jorge attacked because he has tried hard and made a good life for himself? He votes rethug because he does not like what he sees on the other side - why are we not reaching him?

Has our focus been too much on how bad bush is and not so much on how good our ideals are? Do we rely on failure for our ideals to succeed? What do we have to offer folks other than 'we are not bush!'?