Putting National Guard on the Mexican border is not about

illegal immigration it is about wresting control of the National Guard from the states. Every move bush makes is to grab more power into the executives.

So what do you think? Am I on the right track?

side issue for *.

Side Show. :-)

And yeah.... he's passing the buck (the cost)
onto the states.... Ahnold don't like it.

Illegal Mexicans have been coming over that border for 30 years. Suddenly they are the source of terra?

It's almost comical.

The only place that should have been investigated over 911 was the Saudi consulate. They gave the tourist and student visas to most of the hijackers. And even they couldn't have done anything about it if the intelligence wasn't shared with them.

911 and Terra hasn't worked to get even the sheeple to go along with martial law. Time to inflame their racist passions about those job-stealing illegals.

Bush Sr.'s campaign used to get Dukakis? He got out of jail and then committed another crime?

As a distraction, maybe. Because this stuff has been going on for thirty years and had nothing to do with 911, so why all of a sudden is it such a big deal? The people are afraid of terrorist attack one day and now they're afraid of an illegal taking their job, as if it were a threat on the same order of seriousness?

than at our borders. Let's see someone carry a nuclear bomb across the desert.

I think Bush is trying to placate his base. Immigration is the only issue the repukes can trumpet.

Guard? Is he taking from the governors the ability to decide where their Guardsmen are deployed domestically?


Isn't he testing the boundaries of the posse comitatus by deploying soldiers to do what is classically a law enforcement job?

Posse Comitatus does not apply to foreign nationals. Therefore the government is legally able to use the military against non-citizens.

Foreign nationals have no rights under our constitution.

Let's see what type of EO he signs, and legal justifications he uses relating to this.

when accused of crime no matter who he/she is.

But the point is using the National Guard in an illegal way. The President is not above the law. He can only use the National Guard in the way the law says he can. But we know this administration is willing to claim powers above that, so naturally we need some legal backing for his claims.

The President could put regular troops on the border should the nation of Mexico be attacking us with its army. But not just over illegal immigration. According to the law, the INS has that responsibility. The only legal way to deal with it is more INS agents, period.

It's just that it isn't worth it, because the problem is only so severe.

I just think Bush is playing some cards that will sit well with his base. I troll Lucianne.com at least once a day, and his so called inaction of illegal immigration gets hit a bunch from his other wise brain dead supporters.
This administration has proved itself to be uncaring about whether an action appears or doesn't appear to be unconstitutional. They just don't care. To use the National Guard like this is a political action. And they may not do any good. How many troops would be needed to seal the border? The whole idea looks like a loser to me, but the Bushies may think differently. They are in a bind. They don't have much to run on, but some wild ass solution on illegal immigration.
I don't know if he has the legal right to order the Guard to patrol the border. If he does, who pays them? How long will they be there? Until the day after the election?
What ever the bushies thought process is on this matter, the whole thing is going to look bad, for many years to come, with the Hispanic population. The whole thing reminds me of Prop 187 in California. I thought Prop 187 was bad at the time of its appearance on the California ballot, and said so, but it took a little while for it to sink in on most voters, that the repukes in California will pay dearly for Prop 187.
Immigration has been a festering problem for years in this country. Nobody in power gave a shit. Now that the repukes have fucked up just about every thing they touch, with their control of the three branches of the federal government. Now that they are totally without anything to run for reelection on, they insist we adopt a draconian solution to a problem they ignored for all these years. The repukes are not shooting themselves in a foot, they are shooting themselves in the temple.

is playing to his base, but maybe there is another power play. Look at S 1955. That would have taken away the power of the states to set standards for healthcare. Is there a power grab hidden beneath this move?

1 DEPLOY GUNS AND BADGES. This is an unabashed play to members of the conservative base who are worried about illegal immigration. Under the banner of homeland security, the White House plans to seek more funding for an extremely visible enforcement crackdown at the Mexican border, including a beefed-up force of agents patrolling on all-terrain vehicles (ATVs). "It'll be more guys with guns and badges," said a proponent of the plan. "Think of the visuals. The President can go down and meet with the new recruits. He can go down to the border and meet with a bunch of guys and go ride around on an ATV." Bush has long insisted he wants a guest-worker program paired with stricter border enforcement, but House Republicans have balked at temporary legalization for immigrants, so the President's ambition of using the issue to make the party more welcoming to Hispanics may have to wait.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1186555,00.htm

That's enough to make the Freepers
flail into a frenzied circle jerk

Southern lawmakers met with White House strategist Karl Rove earlier in the week for a discussion that included making greater use of National Guard troops to shore up border control.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/14557377.htm

Why am I not surprised.

These will be strong visuals to match the ever-increasing militaristic rhetoric surrounding this issue: the Minutemen, the "invasion," the "army of illegals."

And what deals will need to be struck with governors to deploy the Guard in this way?

I support putting our troops on the border. That border (if you can even call it a border anymore) is a joke.
The US, as a sovereign nation, has a right to protect our borders and control what comes into the country.

If you support illegal immigration, you are supporting Bush's free trade and open-border policy. You are supporting corporations that hire immigrants at slave wages.

Seems like a very costly move to me. How will we pay for it? Tax cuts to the rich? What are the troops going to do? Shoot the people coming across. They won’t do that? Unless we declare martial law they can't make more than a citizen arrest on the people. 20,000 troops not trained at boarder patrol are unlikely to do anything effective for the situation. Deploying them however cost money to us. The will also unnecessarily disrupt the lives of these 20,000 national guard troops. Bush has had 5+ years to beef up and train effective people for this job. He's had 5+ years to enforce the laws that already exist. He’s had 5+ years to go after the CEOs of businesses that employ people illegally in the country. Instead he plans a big show that will do little and is going to cost a lot. This is the same way these idiots manage every thing in this country. They manage the show not the problem. It will look great on TV, and that’s all they care about.

If it takes a tax increase to pay for it, I'll pay it. No problem. This is what our soldiers should be doing anyway instead of fighting for stupid wars in the mid-east. Protecting our nation's borders should be the priority, especially after Septemeber 11th.

What you do is what Colorado is trying to do. YOU STOP AWARDING IT! Cut off healthcare and education to illegal immigrants. Don't allow corporations to hire them. I assure you, all 13 million illegal immgrants will go home and if they want to be Americans, they will come back legally.

And it isn't just aliens...
Drug and human trafficking is occuring on that border. These people are armed cartels and gangs that has shot live rounds at our Border Patrol. And our stupid government has told border patrol not to return fire. So these gangs have no fear. Many of these people associated with these cartels are Mexican police and military. To cross our border and shoot live rounds at our government officials and citisens is an internationally-recognized "act of war."

quite a bit to do with our porous border. Bush had to curry favor with Fox to get him to sign off on the war on Iraq. Why hasn't bush done anything to dramatically increase the number of guards? Would that have endangered his massive tax cuts to the very people who are hiring the illegals?

enforcing tons of new laws, and there is a hidden tax on the cost to all the private entities you're making responsible for the job of the INS.

Human migration is just a fact of life. It is huge and uncontrollable. It goes on all over the work depending on specific conditions. Regulate it by identifying the people who come and go rather than having an unworkable law that can't be enforced. That is the way it is done for nonMexicans.

Mexicans should just be able to come and go legally. There is a rational reason for having a special immigration law for them. (And Canadians). If they could work here legally, there would be no motive for employers to compensate them on terms like less than the minimum wage. They'd have no motive to sneak across the border. You'd know who was here and therefore would feel much safer.

You're making the same arguments from 30 years ago and proposing more of what hasn't worked for the last 30 years (at least).

We are spending $300 billion for the Iraq war. Are you saying it would cost more than that to secure the southern border?

This is what you do... You cut off the education and healthcare for illegals and give that saved money to hard-working Americans that can't afford healthcare, and also a raise to teachers. Then place the 140,000 troops we have in Iraq to guard the southern border. I assure you that the drug trade and human trafficking will either diminish significantly or stop completely. Anyone that is caught crossing illegally is sent back. 2nd offense is a felony and they will go to prison.

This is the only way that border is going to be controlled. And why should Mexicans get special immigration laws? How is that fair to the Europeans that want to immigrate here? Because the Mexicans will work for slave wages? Because Mexicans will "do the jobs Americans wont do?"

You are just as bad as Bush!

... I hardly think that attempting to sneak across the border in order to work and support a family is a capitol offense... What are the orders going to be to the Guardsmen at the border?

Shoot to kill?

Are we as a people, who's entire society is built upon human rights going to stand by and allow this to happen?

It's all a bait and switch, CYA by *.

To amend title 10, United States Code, to authorize the Secretary of
Defense to assign members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine
Corps, under certain circumstances and subject to certain conditions, to
assist the Department of Homeland Security in the performance of border
protection functions.


Conditions of Use- (1) Whenever a member who is assigned under
subsection (a) to assist the Bureau of Border Security or the United
States Customs Service iN performing duties at a border location
pursuant to the assignment, A CIVILIAN LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FROM THE AGENCY CONCERNED SHALL ACCOMPANY THE MEMBER.

(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to AUTHORIZE A MEMBER ASSIGNED UNDER THE SUBSECTION TO CONDUCT A SEARCH, SEIZURE, OR OTHER SIMILAR LAW ENFORECMENT ACTIVITY OR TO MAKE AB ARREST.

Caps mine.

Bush's control. I assume this is an attempt by him to get the American people used to seeing our troops being used for domestic purposes.

what he does afterwards. Let's see how the states react. It is coming up to hurricane season. I'm sure some southern tier states will not be willing to lose more Guardsmen who could be helping first responders.

Logistically speaking, can this even be done? Did you know that the Mexico/US border is 1,951 miles long?

Massachusetts just declared a state of emergency due to the flooding which will direct some of our National Guard there. Hurricane season will most likely direct a good amount of our Guards to the Gulf and the east coast. Hopefully we won't deal with any major earthquakes or some other type of disaster as well.

How many of our Guards are in Iraq right now? The only articles I can find about this is from 2004 when some states had as many as 60% of their Guards in Iraq! How long are we talking about having Guards along the Mexico border? How many will it take? How many available Guards do we have right now?

We debate the legality of this plan (which is needed) but no one is asking if this is even realistic. I'm banging my head against a wall listening to the MSM discuss this because they don't ask about logistics.

Seriously? How in the hell can this be done and for how long?

illegal aliens. Add an asset seizure penalty to the law. Businesses will not comply if all they get is a slap on the wrist. Go after what they value the most, material wealth.

and get a bullhorn to scream out some more lies. This wreaks of doing anything to protect his ass, and divert attention from the spies and the leaks.

His guest workers won't be happy if their amigo's are shot crossing the border.

Dictators don't like it when their subjects do things without government authorization.

the hands of the military. National Guard, NSA, intelligence programs, Homeland Security...starting to look like positioning for a military coup to me.

I have absolutely no faith and trust that anything they do is for the good of the country and believe that everything they do is for their own unknown purposes.

and I posted a thread here ..... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1186025 who knows? Peace.

appears. So any thoughts, even the tin foil ideas need to be aired.

If there is a way for bush to fuck us he will. He is willing to use convoluted legal arguments or just ignore the law. What might seem tin foil now, could be tomorrow's reality.

Oh goody. Will we get to see our heroic troops rounding up more women & kids and clapping them into concetration camps to make the populace feel "secure"?

Will they embed reporters to document the "victories" and body counts?

Yet another brilliant stroke of diplomacy by the geniuses in Washington.

Bush is just trying to spin it so he can take credit for this idea when it was Governor Napolitano and Governor Richardson who suggested this long ago.

place blame.