Did Roosevelt LIHOP to the pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor?

If Bush/Cheney et al are a lousy bunch of LIHOPers then might they LIHOP to the fleet of U.S. ships that are supposedly massing in the Persian Gulf?

and were ignored

LBJ and the Turner Joy in the gulf of Tonkin.

But * went big... Thousands of civilians died in-country.

only Roosevelt gave every indication of being shocked and surprised, unlike the Boy Idiot who sat there like a bump on a log then continued a stupid and meaningless photo op for a full twenty five minutes after he was told the country was under attack.

That's right. Twenty five minutes. Nothing to see here, gotta play with the kiddies, make sure the camera angle is at the belt line aimed upwards Andy, stop bothering me with the small stuff.

I'm sorry, but the contrast is damning. Besides, remember that everything they accuse the Democrats of doing is something they actually DO.

and since his schedule was known for that day, as long as he was there, those kids were targets too...he was using children as a human shield...what a little asswipe*.

*unless of course he knew all along that the kids nor he were ever in any real danger, since they weren't a part of the plan.

since he was at an elementary school- a suicide/car/truck bomb probably would have been effective.

...Junior could strut up to the mike and give his short well-rehearsed speech.

My big question revolves around the two statements he made after 911 to two different groups in the White House about what he was thinking when he saw the first plane fly into the WTC. We know that he wasn't able to see the second plane because Andy Card had to come in to the classroom to tell him about it. We also know that he was in the motorcade heading to the Sarasota elementary school when the first plane struck. So, how did he manage to see the first plane strike the WTC? Many people seem to think that Herr Busch was confused when he made that statement, but how confused to you have to be to make the same statement twice.

We know they lied about the reasons that led to the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq. Why does anyone believe they're telling the truth about 911?

...8-point memo on the Net. If those two items don't prove to you that FDR did everything he could to provoke Japan into attacking the U. S., nothing else will.

Herr Busch and the rest of the NeoCon Junta may be far worse than LIHOPers. They will merit very close scrutiny over the next 2-3 years. They are capable of doing anything to further their own agenda.

knowing much more than Stinnet lets on. But provoking an attack on a military target, much like Lincoln forced an attack on Ft Sumpter, is something that even the Admiral and the General who took the brunt of the Pearl Harbor attack knew was 'imminent'. Adequate submarine nets, torpedo nets along Battleship Row, anti-aircraft batteries etc. Where were these preventive measures ?

Book review of Day of Deceit by Stinnett
http://www.whatwasthen.com/120741.html

significant book about Pearl Harbor and most of the books on FDR: FDR knew the Japanese fleet had sailed and expected them to start a war somewhere. All American comanders in the Pacific (both Army and Navy) were warned by Gen. Marshall in late Novemeber that a war was imminent. FDR had no clue that the attack was to be launched at Hawaii. end of story.

--that some war, somewhere, was likely...but let's think this thru. The best evidence is that they expected the ax to fall in the Phillipines, or maybe Indochina...and if it had, by the way, I doubt very much that we would have gone to war with the passion that we had. How much determinitation did we show when we *did* fight in Indochina, anyway...? But the main point is--FDR, surely, was capable of managing some sort of "incident"--but this is very different from deliberately leaving the entire Pacific Fleet as a sitting duck. It was only chance that our carriers weren't odked at Pearl--and if they had been destroyed, we'd really have been in the soup...the Japanese also could very easily have launched a thrid wave that Dec 7, attacking the fuel tanks--and if they had, we would have been forced to abandon pearl and retreat to Sab Diego--with obvious consequences...and besides--FDR loved the Navy, a fact that should always be kept in mind. He might have been devious--but he *wasn't* suicidal...

angle, or pooh pooh's their abilities entirely. Any Brits or Aussies in pre-war intelligence reading DU could do us a great service

Britain and Churchill were desperate for the US to come into the war. As with Churchchill's possible involvement in WWI with the Lusitania matter, in order to bring the US into WWI, you can sense that Churchill was 'at it again' so to speak...

Read about the suspected cargo at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania

I am sick of these awful people, and have determined that in honor of Mother's Day, for the next two weeks, I will study none but women of courage (like my Mom), including Eleanor Roosevelt, Rosa Parks, Ida Tarbell, Sojourner Truth, and after tonight's "60 Minutes," the Dixie Chicks.

eom

Even if you accept the premise that he wanted an incident to get us into the war, why would he start by wiping out the Pacific fleet and losing an army in the Philippines? What happened is that everyone knew that war was immanent, but no one envisioned it starting that way. I haven't seen the "new" British intelligence, but again, why would they have let the Japanese take Hong Kong and Singapore? These people had no idea of hate capabilities and ambitions of the Japanese armed forces.

By the way - we lost so many planes that day parking them all wing tip to wing tip. Can anyone explain the thinking behind consolidating all Air Force and Navy facilities? For example, why are we shutting down the submarine station in Connecticut and sending all the subs to one place?

tide of the world and the news, it wouldn't have come as no surprise to anyone that Japan would attack us. The question was: where?

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Japan needed oil. They had big plans for Asia. They invaded Manchuria. Japan wanted to continue a trade pact with us that allowed them to buy our oil.

FDR and then other world leaders realized that Japan was a big threat in the Pacific. So rather than renew the oil trade with Japan, FDR requested Japan to withdraw their troops from Manchuria. Japan refuse and an oil embargo began.

As a result, Japan needed a source of oil.

There were several places to choose from.

As tensions began to rise over this issue, FDR knew an attack was to take place, but did not know the place or the time. Just a general idea.

On the morning of Dec. 7th, Japan launched several attacks in the Pacific. Hawaii was only one of them.

Japan had also launched attacks on the Philippines, Indochina and Aleutian island chain.

Indochina and the Philippians operations went well for them, the Aleutian islands was a diversion. However, they had to close the "back-door", Pearl Harbor.

Wake Island, nothing more than a landing strip, refueling stop, but a very important strategic location, was lightly defended and appeared to be the weak link in the U.S. Pacific defense. It was thought to be a cake walk type of operation. However, it proved otherwise and as a result required the Japanese to diverted much needed resources to take that island that were to be used for Hawaii.

Several Historians have postulated that the attack on Hawaii, although a major blow to the U.S. was not a precursor to an attack on the U.S. mainland. The Pearl Harbor attack was to blunt a U.S. effort to counter attack.

Several things played into our favor on Dec 7th and 8th. 1) (the biggest) our carriers were not in port at Pearl. 2) The oil reserves on the island, although damaged were not destroyed 3)the defenders at Wake Island put up heavier resistance that expected. Thus, allowing preciously needed time for the U.S. fleet to regroup and form a counter attack plan.

Like the rest of the Axis powers, Japan grossly underestimated our ability to rebound and defend.

They rest as they say is history.

As a president, he had access to Abe Lincoln's Presidential Time Machine and knew exactly when the Japanese would strike. He's also to blame for 9-11 and the Daleks blowing up the Space Needle in 2239.