Gerald Ford has died. (NO HE HASN'T)

Highly-placed doctors close to Ford have said that the former President has been given only 24 business hours to live.

You heard it first from me. Incidentally, if he dies at any time, that vindicates this scoop because the fundamental story was right even if the facts were wrong. He's 92 and it's only a matter of time. Just remember that I'm sticking my neck out here - don't shoot the messenger. The MSM makes mistakes all the time. I stand by my story. Why are you defending Ford?

Of course Gerald Ford is not dead, and there is nothing to indicate that he will die any time soon other than his age and a recent illness. In a "dead pool", he would be a poor bet. In real odds, it would be a good bet.

Rove has been a poor bet in the political "dead pool" since October. Leopold made that bet and lost. It is a story as badly erroneous as my report of Ford's death. Worse, even, because it has real-life consequences.

We're meant to be the side that tells the truth, remember? There's been a tsunami of fake news, plastic turkeys, paid plants and conveniently timed terror alerts. We should not be attempting to out-Drudge Drudge by reporting every wild rumour; worse yet, we shouldn't be reporting said rumour as fact.

It's more serious than just getting a few details wrong.

For a start, it made a room full of senior Democrats look stupid - and that was the aspect that grabbed most press attention.

Second, when Truthout really does get its next red-hot rock-solid scoop, people will be far less inclined to believe it. That matters for Truthout, which is still a great site, and for the rest of the left.

Third, there's the way that DU responded. The great strength of Du and places like it is on-the-spot fact checking - the analysis of a torrent of news to filter out what's important, what can be relied on, and what is simply noise. For that system to work, it must be applied to all news sources. Certainly, we can trust some sources more than others, but questioning stories as big as "ROVE INDICTED" is a sensible, sane, mature approach. Especially if only one source is reporting that story.

However, many DUers seem to disagree with that approach. That's fair enough, but I was shocked by the hostility that was directed at those who had doubts. It was, to be frank, somewhat Freeperish.

We all WANT Rove to be indicted. But the basic fact remains that what should happen and what will happen are easily confused. There are more than enough sticks to beat this admin with without having to cook up less-than-entirely-true ones.

Flame all you want. I think some of us are used to it after five days of being attacked for expressing disbelief in the Leopold story. Who knows, you might get lucky and say something that really hurts me. But please think about what I have written.


Edited to end ambiguity.

That's not funny.

Did you read the post?

Not cool.

And no

peace.

It's about manners. I know some people don't "get" manners. They think civility is entirely optional. Such people are boors and they stand in company with the Karl Roves and Lee Atwaters of the world.

Uncool to tease. :(

real small in the entire scheme of things.

If some of you who dislike these reporters would spend half the energy helping more Democrats get noticed... well the world would be a better place.

This is NOT a News Media Station, therefore, whatever pissing contest you wish to have with Pitt and Leopold, why don't you show the rest of us some maturity and take it DIRECTLY TO THEM.

These backhanded character assaults also makes you look bad. You make us all look bad.

Just wait for it and then take it to the SOURCE, not to the entire friggin' message board. :grr:

went WWWWHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Even after being explained.

I got it. But I'm an English teacher and I loves satire.

about Gerald Ford's SPRECIFIC health condition in the past that turned out to be correct.

Nor did you run your "story" by an editor who knew who the MULTIPLE sources were.

Will Pitt posted a thread discussing Journalism 101. Perhaps you should find it.

Jeez! I take your point, though, of course.

Your post was excellent ...your subject line SUCKS

:-(

Though I don't.

But this was not a fit subject for a joke.

It may be satire, but the point I think was serious.

The poor man is NOT well.

Someone mentioned the Indonesian volcano - that would also have worked, but might not have had as many responses. Given my time again, I'd do it that way. Meh.

Anyway, point made. This is the first and last thread I start about this subject. I don't really want to comment on this Leopold/Rove mess ever again - I have now said my piece and that's that. Anything more is looking for more trouble, and I am in enough already.

look at me! look at me!

:spank:

What better way to illustrate the absurd spectacle of it all than by being an absurd spectacle? It's brilliant!

satire is all about. Showing how stupid something is by being equally stupid. Some people just don't get it. Sheesh.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:bounce:

:popcorn:

OK, you sucked me in, thinking he might have died. But he hasn't. But he will and you predicted it first. OK. So far the comparison with Rove indictment is really good and thank you.

Now, let the attacks start, proving the other point of your post: that we are of 2 different opinions and WHY THE HELL ARE PEOPLE ATTACKING EACH OTHER about it?

Having said that, kick and recommended.

Assuming 8 business hours per day starting on Monday. If the Rove indictment is announced tomorrow then Leopold was right on.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

When I order materials from my supplier they give me a lead time in working days. They don't count weekends as working days and they don't count three working days in a 24 hour solar day. 24 business hours is 3 days.

before last Friday.

24 hours is a solar day. 8 hours is a business day. Leopold said Fitz gave Rove 24 business hours to get his affairs in order on a Friday afternoon. I assume that means the clock started on the following Monday. 8 business hours on Monday + 8 business hours on Tuesday + 8 business hours on Wednesday = 24 business hours.
In blue collar terms five 8 hour days is 40 working hours or five working days. In white collar terms five 8 hour days is 40 business hours or five business days.
If Leopold was lying or wrong then we'll find out tomorrow.

Courtesy of onenote, in my thread on "business hours":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1216248&mesg_id=1216337


I didn't think so, but it turns out there is. But it doesn't mean 3 days
It can mean one day. Here's a link to a case involving a state law that required information to be provided within 24 business hours of a request. In this case, the request was made at the end of the day on a Thursday. The government office in question was closed for business on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, reopening on Monday. The order in this case concludes that a response was due at the end of the day on Monday, which is not what you would expect if 24 business hours meant three busineess days. Under the reasoning of this case, 24 business hours from the Friday's alleged meeting between Fitz and Rove's counsel would have expired at the end of the day on Monday.

http://www.in.gov/pac/advisory/2001/2001fc21.html
Alert

:rofl:

7 hours, 59 minutes and 58 seconds.

but it worked, and it was well done.

Applause for a thoughtful, intelligent, fairly balanced post.

You did good. Thanks.

I think your point escaped some people.

Thanks for the editing.

i jsut want to say out loud, very tacky and mean and classless......

and you read "A Modest Proposal" in Brit Lit, did you stop reading after the "eat the poor" bit or did you see it through and find out what it was all about?

Ford WILL Die.

Rove WILL be indicted.

Because he "will" die?

I believe people like Jason Leopold and William Pitt.

Rove is going to be indicted.

I will not engage in bashing either Jason Leopold or William Pitt. Both are honorable human beings who TELL THE TRUTH!

I do not believe the lies that the Bush Regime want to push down our throats using the compliant, lap-dog corporate media.

How do we know that Gerald Ford hasn't died? Have you seen him recently? Has anyone? Do we rely so heavily on the corporate media that we only beleive something is "real" when THEY tell us it is?

until you stop standing by them. What is next week goes by and no idictment? What if the indictment comes in 5 year? Were they still right then?

If someone on Fox news had said something like this, everyone would be pissed.

I was raised to stand by decent human beings -- like William Pitt and Jason Leopold!

I will NOT be a fair weather friend and a sunshine patriot to those two honorable men who do their damnest to tell the truth and to speak the TRUTH TO POWER!!

HOW LONG will I stand by them??

FOREVER!!!!!

If the former, then Colin Powell had higher principles at the UN the month before the war than I've given him credit for.

When Personal Loyalty and Loyalty To Truth Are THE SAME, then there is not need to ask such a question.

William Pitt and Jason Leopold speak THE TRUTH!!

It's the corporate media that lie!

Neither one has lied before?

What does that mean? :shrug:

If we were in a country where all citizens were killed or imprisoned for disagreeing with their government then I could understand how preaching truth to power would be a risk. In this country if you speak truth to power, power will just give you a cookie and milk, pat you on the head, and send you on your way.

It means NOT following the orders of the Bush Cabal Regime!

It means NOT doing what the corporate media does!

It means saying "FUCK YOU" to the whole rotten mess that Bush and his thugs and toadies in the corporate world have gotten us into.

They disagree with us and speak "truth to power," and we disagree with them and speak "truth to power."

OK.

Taking your cues from the actions of someone else.

What do you REALLY believe? If someone asked you to list your own beliefs and principles, would you need to refer to Bushism to make sure there was no overlap?

"summer soldier" there Thomas Paine.

I am all for fighting the power. But when we are talking about journalistic ethics, at what point do we start thinking things might be a little off. Especially when people have been saying how stupid we will look when Leopold is proven right. Except he hasn't been. He has been proven wrong day after day after day after..........

Either Rove was indicted on Friday, or he wasn't. Either there is such a thing as "business hours" or there isn't.

If Leopold's story is not accurate, he has done a major disservice to people who want to see justice in the Plame case. He's created a rift (whether through malicious intent or wreckless incompetence) among allies who agree that Rove (or whoever is responsible for outing Valerie Plame Wilson) ought tobe indicted and tried.

How do we know that Rove has NOT been indicted??

Because we have not heard it from the corporate media??

Well, DUH!

The corporate media will NOT report anything like that without first checking it with the Bush cabal regime. The consequences for them would be just too severe.

But William Pitt and Jason Leopold are people who are NOT beholden to the corporate world. And they do NOT live in fear and trembling of the thugs in the Bush Cabal Regime.

There comes a time when bullshit has to be called bullshit. If you want to praise people for no good reason, be my guest. Just try not to fool yourself into thinking there's something noble about talking yourself into believing a lie.

How the hell do I know WHY the corporate media reported that Libby was indicted??

This is DO know -- it would not have happened unless the Bush Cabal Regime gave its OK.

Perhaps the Bush Regime decided that Libby was expendable.

Perhaps the Regime reasoned that letting it be known that Libby was indicted would further the aims of the regime?

How the hell do I know?

I kind of resent you saying that I want to praise people for "no good reason".

FOR NO GOOD REASON??!! You are speaking of William Pitt and Jason Leopold, for heaven's sake!! Are you suggesting that there is "NO GOOD REASON" to praise those two fine people who have done so much for progressives everywhere??!!!

I've heard people say "truth to power," but never really understood it here in the United States. Speaking truth to power doesn't hold any life-threatening risk here, yet it seems to be portrayed as "really doing something above and beyond" by those who use the phrase.

Perhaps I'm explaining it well, perhaps not.

Oh well, it's off the main subject anyway. Looks like there's a writer who makes things up as they go and an editor who'll cut off his nose to spite his face. Drama!!

have also been punk'd by those who punk'd Jason Leopold? Because they stand by him., and not just because they BLEEEVE him, but because they know his sources as well.

So from your assumptions we may logically conclude:

A) Jason, Joseph, and Larry are all conspiring to Punk US;
OR
B) The mutiple sources known to Jason, Joseph, Larry and Truthout have conspired to Punk ALL OF THEM, (and us by proxy).


Maybe you are of the Citizenspook persuasion, and believe that Joseph Wilson will be indicted by Fitz for treason? Hmmm?

And that many other important details in Leopold's story have subsequently been shown to be false.

It's not clear to you by now that the story was bunk?

How gullible are you?

one way or the other cuz i'm just a fucking guy.

But Larry Johnson and Joseph wilson support Jason's assertion pretty much wholesale and that counts for something in my book.

I find it interesting that the sole measure of Leopold's accuracy seems to be "Will Fitz hold a press conference this week".

If he hold a press conference, say in 2 weeks, but it is then also revealed that the indictments HAD BEEN sealed and delivered by Friday May 12th, will Leopold be vindicated? Leopold is predicting an announcement this week, but Fitz could delay for any number of reasons.

Do you really think thar Larry Jonson and Joseph Wilson are just gullible fucking schmucks like me? because you are in fact making that assertion whether you intend to or not.

Thanks.

:thumbsup:

what might happen (although not certain it will happen). Just a thought.

But your point is good.

I'm 100% sure of that.

Can't say the same about Rove.

I'm confiscating your "WIN" button.

Anyone who reacts in anger, read the whole post and quit attacking each other about this. Just stop. Why continue attacking and reacting angrily as we are not the enemy. Thank you again Taxloss for this post.

There's been an important change.

Congrats.

That was an EXCELLENT skit!!!!!

:rofl:

Sorry, but this thread reminded me of it. :D

finally decides to tell the truth.

Or perhaps someone in the Bush cabal regime found it a good idea to disseminate this information.

Do NOT believe the corporate media, and do NOT rely on them to validate any "fact".

The corporate media lie -- ALL THE TIME!!

:loveya:

</kirkdouglas>

Er, I mean Taxloss...

:blush:

But I think that Judith Miller will break the story first
and redeem herself ( just kidding)



BTW
I liked this post myself.

No points for you today - this is a disgusting post...

:eyes:

There are better ways of making points.

And my name is not Mary....

:evilgrin:

demanding everyone to apologize to you for even thinking about questioning you about your scoop.

This is inappropriate.

Thank you.

DU Moderator.