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OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #9

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The empressof all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:23 PM
Original message
OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #9
Edited on Thu May-18-06 10:33 PM by The empressof all
We are instructing the moderators to lock all threads about Jason Leopold and his Rove indictment story. If you wish to continue discussing this issue, you may do so here.

When this thread reaches approximately 100 replies, the moderators will lock it and open a new one.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin


Thread #8 is here:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1230678#1231700
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Byron York responds to Wayne Madsen's report...

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODExMzllMjViM2M3NmI1NmJhYmJhY2FkM2QxMjE5NTE=

<snip>


Madsen's report has raised the hopes of Rove indictment fans who have become somewhat dispirited after Leopold's "24 business hours" passed without action against Rove. But it appears that they might again be destined for disappointment, because the details of Madsen's account are, if anything, even more farfetched than Leopold's.

First, a Justice Department source, speaking on background, says that Alberto Gonzales did not go to the courthouse on Friday, May 12.

Second, Gonzales, like his predecessor John Ashcroft, has recused himself from the CIA leak investigation. Gonzales, as White House counsel, had taken part in the White House's response to the Justice Department in the early days of the probe. When he became attorney general, there was no doubt that he would have to recuse himself from the matter. He was asked about it during a press conference in October 2005, when there was great anticipation that indictments were coming in the CIA leak affair, and this is what he had to say:

...

Finally, it simply defies common sense to think that Fitzgerald and the grand jury would give the attorney general a preview of an indictment in the CIA leak matter. "Gonzales would not be given that kind of information," says one insider. "The reason one is recused from the case is so that one cannot make decisions that would affect the case — like he might tell the White House."

And one more note. Madsen also reported that Fitzgerald told Rove lawyer Robert Luskin that he, Luskin, is now a "subject" in the probe because Fitzgerald is investigating whether Luskin "may have violated laws on obstruction of justice." I asked Rove spokesman Mark Corallo whether Fitzgerald has informed Luskin that he, Luskin, is a subject of the investigation. "No," was Corallo's answer. And Corallo repeated his earlier denials about the purported meeting last Friday at Patton Boggs. It simply did not happen, Corallo said.





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Blackthorn Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Small question...
How are these sources more trustworthy than Leopold's?
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Semblance Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. York
York makes a good point, though. Gonzales has recused himself, so they wouldn't be publicly informing him of the progress of the GJ. It doesn't make any sense.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. hold up one sec...
Edited on Thu May-18-06 10:52 PM by yourguide
Gonzales recused himself in March (apparently shortly after he took the atty general post) of 2005 but wasnt he the one that still showed up at the libby GJ so hear the indictment come down from the GJ at the end of October?

Let's take this to another logical point then, who replaced Gonzales in these duties...IE who does Fitzgerald report to in this matter? If this has still not yet been resolved it's quite possible that Gonzales was indeed doing his thing again, just as he did in the libby grand jury although 'officially' recused.

Anybody know the answers to these questions?
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Semblance Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Claim
wasnt he the one that still showed up at the libby GJ so hear the indictment come down from the GJ at the end of October?

That claim has been made, but I don't know if it is true.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Grand juries hear lots of cases and there are
all sorts of other things going on in the Federal courthouse where the grand jury meets.

How anyone would know where Gonzales was going, if, in fact, he really was at the courthouse, is beyond me.

Grand juries hear all sorts of cases, not just Patrick Fitzgerald's matter.

Gonzales doesn't dare touch anything remotely involved with Patrick Fitzgerald, who is also a Federal prosecutor, don't forget.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. It sounds to me like the case has been decided so then Gonzales
wouldn't have any influence over the outcome. So, I don't see why he couldn't be given the results. His recuse would have little to do with anything if the case is over.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I thought it was a formality that Gonzales...
Edited on Thu May-18-06 10:52 PM by yourguide
had to be notified of the intent to indict. Which is why he went to the GJ to hear the indictment handed down in the libby case. If he still had no involvement 7 months later then why was he there?

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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. No, not at all
Gonzales gets no advance notice of anything. He's out of the loop because of his recusal, which was necessary and proper.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. leftie...
who would they notify then, there would have to be some notification of white house counsel correct?
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. The court
Edited on Thu May-18-06 11:03 PM by OldLeftieLawyer
The clerk, where the indictment is filed.

The defendant's counsel.

The media.

On edit - you're new here, I just noticed, so welcome to DU!
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. ok then...thanks...
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Ashcroft recusal, what was that about again?
good lord, I think I am -10% on what may be going on, but god damn shit this IS TOO MUCH to follow.

as intended.

I will, in stead, tend to my petunias. and Swear Loudly
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Ashcroft recused himself from approving the wiretap deal
He was in the hospital, recovering from gall bladder surgery, when a team of White House/Pentagon flunkies were sent to get his signature on the documents that would allow the bypassing of the FISA court in the matter of obtaining wiretaps.

When he refused, his days as AG were numbered, and, of course, he was soon gone.

How bad do you think it is when an immoral prick like Ashcroft thinks something isn't kosher?

Don't swear at the petunias. They'll get scared.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
65. If I might add
>when a team of White House/Pentagon flunkies were sent to get his signature on the documents that would allow the bypassing of the FISA court in the matter of obtaining wiretaps.<

The reason why the flunkies were sent to Ashcroft's bedside (and while I detest the man, he had pancreatitis -- NOT fun,)is because they failed to obtain the signature of the acting Attorney General on that same paperwork.

The acting AG was James Comey, Patrick Fitzgerald's friend, and the only man daring to stand up for our privacy rights at that time. Mr. Comey is now chief counsel at Lockheed Martin.

If you'd like to read a great article about Mr. Comey (and his colleague, Mr. Goldsmith, who's now teaching at Harvard,) please go to http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11079547/site/newsweek/.

Julie
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #65
122. Yes, YES!
Comey's the only damn hero - and a fine one at that, for his whole professional life - in this whole sordid saga. I'm sorry I forgot that he was such a vital part of this story.

Thanks for this great link, too. I had forgotten about these heroic gentlemen.

Thank you so much.

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #49
73. Ashcroft also recused himself
because Rove had run his campaign against the dead guy, and the dead guy WON, that still kills me.. lost to a dead man :) (Sympathies for his family)

Rove was paid, I forget, three quarters of a million bucks or so, maybe a mil and a quarter, something like that..

What a great situation we have here.. A Right Winger who NOW has more credibility, who's articles run in every bookstore in america - I know because *I* was the subject of one of his articles once and on the shelf at every Borders I went to, while Leopold who's some guy on the web, which by itself isn't that big of a deal, so many progressive websites that some are like a Needle in a Haystack..

And what's happening? EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING.. WHO is Byron quoting? NUTJOBS on the left, WHO is now lumped in? Why our friends we've been trying to warn, TO.. Not Leopold, I never had warnings for him, might as well tell the fridge to JUMP, or fart in a Hurricane with him..

Now those supporting the nonsens sloppy fake journalism are being lumped in too, just a matter of time before ALL the media dives on this..

His Source? A GUY that they will not even LET YOU POST A LINK TO HERE ON THE DU!!

This is starting to get hilarious. We're in Willy WOnka land, the Ooompha Loompha's are all lined up, and the chocolate stuffed kids are complaining about how their stomachs are starting to hurt..

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #73
106. Yes, this was the real reason for Ashcroft's recusal
It had nothing to do with FISA warrants or being sick.

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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #73
123. The PMs keep coming,
and they're all from people here on DU who are now afraid to post in support of our challenge to this absurd story that's captivated us for almost a week. The groupthink mentality of the story's supporters has grown so vicious, these good people fear the attacks that they've seen directed at people like you and me and some other mouthy types who know what we're talking about aimed at them.

Who can blame them?

It has become hilarious, and kind of sad, but, because I still harbor hope, let's hope that it will prove to be a great learning experience for all of us, that truth will triumph over truthout, that the men who played this foolish and ill-advised game will apologize and have the good grace to go away, that no one will call DUers "fuckwits" and "cretins" again and not take responsibility for being an ugly drunk who has nothing better to do than attack via a keyboard - a sure sign of cowardice and deep emotional disturbance, that no one will ever make the mistake of believing anything Jason Leopold posts or says anywhere, and that all these fine DU folks will get about, together, advancing the causes that will bring America back to us all, where it belongs.

In the meantime, let's not take it personally, because, hey, it's really not worth it, and - keep this in mind - it's not real life.

OK?
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #49
99. Ash had big time to do with the Ftiz appointment, no?
""""How bad do you think it is when an immoral prick like Ashcroft thinks something isn't kosher?""""
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #99
107. No, Ashcroft had nothing to do with it
Comey who was Acting Attorney General in this matter picked Fitzgerald.




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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Ashcroft's recusal
...is what brought Fitz into the picture. Rove was relying on Ashcroft to sweep all this under the rug, and knowingly lied to the FBI, thinking he was above the law. Fitz was brought in, and now Rove has to answer why he lied to the FBI and that's what the potential indictment we've all been waiting for is about.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Uh, using Corallo as a source is not kosher here.
Even though I totally agree with points 1-3 as the only reasonable way to look at Madsen's article, #4 - Corallo - shouldn't have been added, least of all last, which any journalist knows is reserved for the item the writer seeks to treat as being the most credible of all. "Here's logic, logic, logic... and now faith. BELIEVE"

But, #4 doesn't invalidate 1 through 3.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Byron York of National Review is hardly credible on this subject...
...although I appreciate you bringing this to our attention, sabra. :hi:
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. here's the link to the last thread
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. oh brother nt
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. O Brother Where Art Thou
good movie, good clooney, great soundtrack.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's funny the way Skinner's sig is in empressofall's posts.
At first, I thought Skinner was declaring himself the Empress of all (not that there's anything wrong with that).

:)
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The empressof all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. As If!
No I'm just passing his message along.....You guys are exhausting me! :hi:
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Well
I guess a long over due thank you is needed.

Thank you - your jobs as Mods is a thankless one

Thank you

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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. did Skinner pass out the flameproof clothing?
Honestly, your job has been thankless all day. It's time for that to change. Thanks!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. not only flameproof suits
but also some extra thick skin ;)

Your welcome and thank you

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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
67. Thank you for the "thank yous"
I am a mod in a different forum, but I'm sure that Her Grace is touched by the kind thoughts of so many here.

It's a pleasure to serve such a community.

Julie
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. Let us go, then,
and eat a nice Fuji apple with some Stilton?

heh heh heh

How's your food funk, TEOA?
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The empressof all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
48.  I'm more of a Pink Lady with Gjtost kind of gal
Food Funk has passed.....I'm making cheese this weekend! All is well again.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Good for you
MAKING CHEESE?

Now, I'm REALLY in a funk.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #52
85. Learn about it here
Edited on Fri May-19-06 12:29 AM by kgfnally
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html

His name's David B. Fankhauser, Ph.D.; he's Professor of Biology and Chemistry (stated as a title on his site) at the University of Cincinnati Clermont College. Very extensive and informative site. I plan on starting in on some type of cheese or other after I move just because I found this site- I haven't decided what to make, yet.

But it looks like this page has everything you need to know about cheesemaking.

Fun trivia: Italian mozzarella is made using milk from a water buffalo.

Bet ya wanted to know that...
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The empressof all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. And When you are ready for supplies
Edited on Fri May-19-06 12:37 AM by The empressof all
http://www.cheesemaking.com/

They are just great and their newsletters are very informative.


I'm doing mozzarella and ricotta this weekend. I'm working on finding space for a stand alone wine fridge which I can use as a substitute cave so I can do the harder cheeses.

And thanks for the link---I am so going to try the Gjtost recipe.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #85
124. Thank you
Thanks to you, I just entered the "clinical" stage of depression.

And the buffalo is gone for the weekend, dammit ........................
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Go Will and Jason!!! wahoo!!!
Edited on Thu May-18-06 10:30 PM by stop the bleeding
let the mud flinging continue


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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. that bunny thing. shouldn't there be a spine removed? nt
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. I've just realized that I'm probably the only person at DU
NOT to post on this issue. So I felt compelled.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fitz!!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I was waiting for this - F*ck yeah!!!
Go Fitz, Go Fitz, Go Fitz

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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Here's hoping for an early Fitzmorial Day...
:bounce::toast:
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Hear Hear!!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. so far
this thread is pretty much hate free, but give it time we are only at post #16 or 17 ;)
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. *clink*
:toast:
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peacetheonlyway Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. what if fitz
has a whole lot more up his sleeve
and he's the reason the dems are waiting to impeach...


that single hope is driving me in a very positive / happy / singing mood..

WE LOVE FITZ you catholic hunk of man!
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
75. Is Fitz just waiting until Friday afternoon so the MSM can go ape
all weekend long and no White House people can do any spin-cycle-damage-control until the Sunday morning talk shows?

Isn't that how the game is played? You drop the bombshell at the end of the week when everyone is headed home for the weekend or they're out playing golf...

And then the shark frenzy gets whipped up all day Saturday...?

Just hopeful wishing, I guess.
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #75
90. That's sorta how the cheney shooting played out,
except it was given to the media midday on a Saturday, and blown way up before ANY control was done on Sunday.
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. kekekeke, made me laugh again. don't know why. nt
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Number nine .......... number nine
#9


dp
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
76. bingo number,B9
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well....
I haven't said anything about the Truthout/Leopold/Rove thing yet. Umm... 'cause I don't have anything to say. It's still okay if I post, right?
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. No, you must be either a rabid supporter or a frothing critic!
No in-betweeners are allowed.
:D
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. Or, you can know the law and how it works,
as well as the most basic principles of responsible journalism, and then you can post and watch the believers go nuts.

That's fun. Trust me.
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
64. just between you and I
I didn't buy tickets for either concert.

rabid - $whatever your worth is, not in dollars
frothing - $diitto
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peacetheonlyway Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. if the news comes down tomorrow or
2 weeks from tomorrow or
2 months from tomorrow,

i'm quite sure that
a. fitz has done his homework and shoots his bullets when all his homework is quite complete and thank god, he waits till he has full evidence of things
b. that Jason was only reporting what he heard and gave me a week of fun thinking that rove was indicted that I would not have had if he did not get me going... so thanks jason, you deserve a medal for making me happy for a week
c. when Rove does get indicted.. Jason can claim credit for scooping it period. and give left wing writers something to celebrate..

i continue to suggest that folks on DU give Will and Jason a medal for their muckraking everyday hard work... peek behind the curtains and most folks at raw and truthout are getting paid squat , cause they have yet to sellout to corporate empires and yet they are there religiously providing video, audio and awesome writing....

screw it... i love truthout and i love jason and i love will and they all deserve the medals that bush likes to hand to criminals... cause these guys are heroes in my book..

sorry just had to let er rip.....
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. rip away
there has been an absence of support on this

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tom22 Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. I agree that the Gonzalez reports and the 14 hour meeting make no sense.
that portion of the story is absolute junk. I have no opinion about the other stuff, I do have hopes.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. it only took 30 ++ posts
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #34
72. hope is a dangerous amulet in these times.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
117. But wouldn't that be like reporting that the Pope has died?
Sure it may not be accurate now, but it will be someday.

Remember the headline was "Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators." The past tense was used, not the future tense. Shouldn't the 'editors' of Truth Out know the difference?
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. So what's the hold up?
:shrug:
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. The latest news is that
Fitzgerald and Rove were discovered in flagrante in their secret love nest in Annapolis, Maryland.

This explains why there's been no indictment.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. Not just Leopold. Remember Jim HATFIELD?
Hatfield is the fellah who wrote the unauthorized bio "Fortunate Son" about America's least favorite monkey.

Seems that Mr. Hatfield printed info about Smirko McCokespoon having a bad habit besides the sauce. Hatfield also mentioned Bush had to do community service with Project P.U.L.L. in Houston to get a cocaine conviction off his record. Hatfield's source? Mr. Karl Rove.

Details: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/

That's not the most important part of Hatfield's story, though. Hatfield poo-poo'd the story Osama bin Laden was going to fly hijacked airplanes into the Genoa G-8 summit in July 2001. Funny. Bush didn't want to sleep in the hotels on land, preferring the safety of an Aegis-class cruiser offshore.



Why would Osama bin Laden want to kill Dubya, his former business partner?

By James Hatfield

Editor's note: In light of last week's horrific events and the Bush administration's reaction to them, we are reprising the following from the last column Jim Hatfield wrote for Online Journal prior to his tragic death on July 18:

July 3, 2001—There may be fireworks in Genoa, Italy, this month, too.

A plot by Saudi master terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to assassinate Dubya during the July 20 economic summit of world leaders, was uncovered after dozens of suspected Islamic militants linked to bin Laden's international terror network were arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, and Milan, Italy, in April.

German intelligence services have stated that bin Laden is covertly financing neo-Nazi skinhead groups throughout Europe to launch another terrorist attack at a high-profile American target—his first since the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen last October.

According to counter-terrorism experts quoted in Germany's largest newspaper, the attack on Dubya might be a James Bond-like aerial strike in the form of remote-controlled airplanes packed with plastic explosives.

Why would Osama bi Laden want to kill, Dubya, his former business partner?

I knew that bombshell would whip your heads around. So here's the straight scoop, folks.

In June 1977, Dubya formed his own drilling company, Arbusto Energy ("arbusto" means "bush" in Spanish), in Midland, Texas. Like his father before him, Dubya founded his oil business with the financial backing of investors, including James R. Bath, a Houston businessman whom Dubya apparently first met when they were in the same Texas Air National Guard unit. (Interestingly, both Dubya and Bath were both suspended from flying in August and September 1972, respectively, for "failure to accomplish annual medical examination.")

CONTINUED...

http://www.onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html



Hatfield was found dead in hotel room a few weeks after the above was published, a "suicide."

MASS MURDERER
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. You're on to something
I can see it now - they're going to KILL Jason Leopold because he broke a major story in uncovering public court records.

No, they like Jason the way he is. They way he's going, the Republicans should put him on the payroll!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. It's my fault. I'm never obvious. Or clear.
Hatfield was fed a story about Bush and blow by Karl Rove. It had elements of truth and some stuff that couldn't be verified. Later, we discovered that Hatfield was a convicted felon. Discrediting him also discredited his story about Bush and blow.

Leopold was fed a story about Rove and Patrick Fitzgerald. It had elements of truth and some stuff that can't be verfied. Now we discover that Leopold has some disturbing stuff in his past. So now, all the true stuff he's uncovered about the Bush Crime Family and written about are discredited.

TRAITOR CHIMP
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. There is no good reason now to set Leopold up
But he would be an easy target if someone in the administration wanted to! You're right about that.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #53
81. HUH?
Leopold was fed a story about Rove and Patrick Fitzgerald. ?????????

So THIS is the EXCUSE that comes LATER? And then there's the "I don't care WHEN Rove is Indicted No Matter what Leopold is GOD, he BROKE this, and it's indisputable.."

Leopold STOOD BY HIS STORY, PITT STOOD BY THE STORY.. BULLET PROOF, CONCRETE..

and NOW it's a FACT that he was fed a story? How about PROVING that? Seems goddam convenient for someone who has a HISTORY (which came FIRST PLEASE) of Stealing, Lying, Plagiarism, Drug ABUSE, flipping Sources, etc - and THAT has NOTHING to do with WHY HE IS WRONG more than RIGHT?

Octafish, I can't believe that you are making these claims. I've always enjoyed your posts, but PLEASE reconsider this line of thinking, it's the path to "Faith Based Media" on the left..

NO responsibility means Chaos, No ONE knowing WHO to really Believe who wants TRUTH and FACTS, this is what's called a CLUSTERFUCK in the Military, and I've seen it, and recognize it when I see it.

Wake the hell up people, admit the mistake so this shit doesn't happen over and over until the left really IS Nuts...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #81
121. I never endorsed faith-based journalism. It's a nice term, though.
The point of my posting support for Leopold is that he, like Hatfield, touches subjects the members of Corporate McPravda avoid like the plague.

How many news organizations, let alone journalists, covered Bush's past before Selection 2000? Not bloody many.

How many news organizations, let alone journalists, covered Selection 2000 and the real Florida vote tally? Not bloody many.

How many news organizations, let alone journalists, covered the national security consequences of Bush's business dealings with the bin Ladens before 9-11? Not bloody many.

In fact, the sources people turned to for Truth were largely on the Internet. Readers and listeners and viewers -- news consumers -- have to be smart enough to separate signal from noise.

The two I referenced above have checkered histories, but what they wrote about has been discovered to be true. Supporting -- not proving -- my point: I'm surprised no one's commented on the Bush-Bath-bin Laden connection BEFORE 9-11 in Hatfield's story.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
44. 9 bottles of beer on the wall, 9 bottles of beer..... nt
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #44
84. that song had 99 bottles of beer. and I'm a 'girl' ya wuss :0
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
50. Has it been 24 business hours yet?
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. No, that's changed
It was discovered that it was really a binary number, or something like it, and the number was changed to 11,000.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. I think they were basing that on time when traveling the speed of light
When you are going the speed of light and you are gone for 24 hours, you come back and a baby is then an old man. So Rove's indictment will be announced in 90 years.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #60
125. Oh?
Well, that's so much better than those 11,000 days - which are now, by the way, 10,999 - thanks to the brilliant calculations of Dancing Bear.

But, I don't want to come back as a baby boy. I like being a girl.

Can I get any help on that one, do ya think?
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la la Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #54
92. no, no, no
Use a 'Magic Square' - not a binary #

Hi Oldlefty - I haven't posted on this either, and I need to be included! :>)

email later, tsistah!
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #92
126. YOU TRAMP!!!
And you were so sick ::: cough, cough :::::: you weren't online.

Magic Square, huh? Can I get that on eBay?

You're always included, sistah...

<smooooooooooooooooch>

Feel better, Franken***t
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MDiaz Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
55. When has William Pitt been wrong before?
I signed up because it is bothering me to see his reputation besmirched and ridiculed. He is a straight-shooter from what I've seen. I don't understand why some people think he would tell us anything that isn't credible or very well-sourced.

Manuel
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. welcome to DU MDiaz
now that is some moxie - be prepared here it comes. ;)
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MDiaz Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Thank you
for welcoming me. Not sure what is coming, though, should I worry?
William Pitt is such an intelligent, articulate, and honest man, I just don't see why some would question him. What has he ever done to deserve it? He speaks truth to power, and that obviously upsets some people.

Manuel
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #61
109. no sweat
sorry I didn't reply sooner some us need to get some sleep sometime ;)

I see they left you alone odd but good.

Cheers I hope your stay at DU has been as fun and imfomative as mine:toast:
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #61
119. Will, is that you? Will?...
You havin' some fun with us, Will? :evilgrin:

Just kidding. Welcome to DU.

Sid
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
58. Come to think of it, where is William Pitt?
Edited on Thu May-18-06 11:21 PM by Quixote1818
If Jason turns out to be wrong will William be afraid to show up here again? Not that I have anything against Will, but you have to wonder.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. No. Did he slink away during the controversy he was party to
where Andy was concerned? No, he stood up and took his licks for his actions. Then, he went back to work. This should be the one place that he should be able to find some forgiveness, I think. I can't see him backing away unless others make it impossible for him to do anything else.

Just how I see it. The work and the activism is the thing.
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. I Admit I Was Wrong
I really thought that we would hear something this evening. I figured it would work out similar to when Libby was indicted, and we learned about it late Thursday night.

But it looks like we've been led by our own with false hope. Once again there is no positive news. Nothing to look forward to.

I guess when you've been outscored by 10 goals in a hockey game, you want to at least experience the joy of at least a single goal. But that seems to constantly elude us, and we're like these pathetic creatures, grasping for that one victory. Can't we win just once? Can't something go the way of the left JUST ONCE? Why do these bastards get away with it time after time after time after time after.......
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Stevendsmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. I feel your pain, my friend.
Edited on Fri May-19-06 12:02 AM by Stevendsmith
There have been victories, though. Delay, Cunningham. And the country is finally turning on Bush (of course, it's waaay fucking late, and so much damage has already been done).

Just try to have faith that justice will be served.

(BTW: Are you from Orange County California? I grew up in Irvine and Costa Mesa).
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #70
94. Yes....South Orange County, CA
As you know, one of the most conservative regions in the country. Even though everything north of here is pretty Democratic.

Even with DeLay and Cunningham, they don't yet feel like victories. It always seems like they don't get fully what they deserve. And so long as they continue having Big victories, they don't sweat their small defeats. I want them to suffer, and feel pain, as they've caused the country a great deal of pain, and long term harm.
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #63
83. Libby was indicted...
...and the GJ session goes through next week. We may hear something by the end of next week - you never know. The investigation isn't going to end without someone else being indicted; otherwise it would have ended last October.

It's just that we're unlikely to hear anything much before someone is actually indicted.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #63
103. Don't feel too bad
Edited on Fri May-19-06 03:48 AM by symbolman
I was rooting for you, what you said sounded like it made a lot more sense than Leopold, and you of course prefaced it with announcing that it was speculation, and if that's the way it went down the last time it could just as easily go down the same way again..

Too much Hope, too many expectations while presented with so little evidence by the ones making this claim WILL lead to disappointment, the expectations game will make people very unhappy, that's why we try to gather as much in the way of solid Facts as possible :)

I'm waiting too, and I'm still convinced that Rove will be Indicted, but I'm not going to say when, even tho I researched all this for a year and even made a film about it, to cut all the Media spin out and get to the meat.

I think he will be Indicted for his Lying to the FBI when he thought that Ashcroft was going to protect him, he was filled with Hubris (some of that going around here), and bulletproof, or so he thought - then Ashcroft recused, and Gonzales recused, meanwhile those FBI interviews where KKKarl Lied like a rug made their way to Fitz's desk..

That's where he lied the most, nice concentrated easily disputable NONFacts..

So he's going down, relax and enjoy the ride now, the bumpy part is over :)
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #58
87. That would make Pitt Wrong too btw
You Break it, You Buy it..

He'll be back soon enough, he gets tired of all the people laying next to the door in a fetal position whining eventually..
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
66. Rove is ...
Playing around with google bomb


Evil>

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. tomorrow, tomorrow there's always tomorrow and it's FRIDAY
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Yep, so true. The writing is on the wall, if nowhere else. :)
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #66
80. I haven't seen that since ...
my eBay forum days!


:rofl:
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
71. To recap, Middle of the 9th, score tied.
Rove nothing, Leopold nothing.

That is all.
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Stevendsmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
74. Do we know anything about Fitz's schedule tomorrow? (n/t)
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #74
78. More importantly, do we know the health status of all pets?
Fitzgerald's Pekingese? Luskin's tabby? Rove's lab rats?

I wouldn't want one of the principals in this soap opera to be at the Vet's and miss out on the fun.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
77. I'll never read Truthout again
That site has let us down and this Leopold character is fool.

If he had any integrity he would accept responsibility for his screwups and not try to make up conspiracy theories blaming other people for his failure. That goes for us all.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. Aren't you gonna wait to see what the truth is?
Or doesn't that matter?
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Jigarotta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #79
93. Pitties truth was Monday, Tuesday, maybe Wesnesday....
according to the gargantuan julian gregorian ego calendar
revealed then! now?
let me check my watch...

Yes, I am willing to see what the truth is. But it aint gonna happen except for my personal self and not rely on others truthiness.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #79
102. It matters to me. I will never give up hope. Ever.
Edited on Fri May-19-06 02:29 AM by fooj


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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #79
111. I'll wait and see.
Edited on Fri May-19-06 06:03 AM by Kire
Meanwhile, I won't read truthout. Honestly, I never read them much in the first place. Occasionally, they'll post a whole article from Paul Krugman that I can't get because it's behind the wall of New York Times, which is cool. But, I don't follow their original stuff.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #77
82. i may be feeling that way tomorrow...
but i'm not going to let it bother me tonight! there is still Friday. 8^)
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #77
98. Exactly
If they'd even come out today and admitted the whole 24 Blockbusters Video Biz hours turned out to be crap I'd at least have some respect for them, taking the lumps for it, because at this point it can't possibly be true..

But instead we get roving packs of intellectually lazy, faith based Liberal Media hounds.. who I pity, they simply will not listen to facts.



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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
86. Mods - Doesn't this belong in 9/11 discussion?
just sayin'
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #86
95. As the Opening Post in this thread says
"We are instructing the moderators to lock all threads about Jason Leopold and his Rove indictment story. If you wish to continue discussing this issue, you may do so here.

When this thread reaches approximately 100 replies, the moderators will lock it and open a new one.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin"



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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. Kick for post #100
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
88. I'm curious why...
....TRUTHOUT has had no Rove/Fitz/Libby-related content since this article? Have Leopold's previously reliable sources compromised him? Did nothing truly happen in the whole affair this week?

It doesn't add up.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #88
91. Possible he pissed off his sources by saying he would out them...
...if they had lied to him.

I'm willing to wait on this and see if anything is announced in the next few days.
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MDiaz Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #91
100. Yes we should not jump the gun
Good advice. Let's wait and see.

Probably everything is fine, why would William Pitt back up somebody over stuff that isn't true? It just makes no sense at all. It is terrible to see people doubting him when he has been a stand-up, professional guy.

People, let's give him the benefit of the doubt, to do otherwise is crazy.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
96. it's friday morning did will ever apologize for his screw-up?
or does he really disrespect us that much?

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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #96
101. I think you will hear something today.
One way or the other.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #96
108. If the indictment comes out and is dated May 12th
it wasn't a screw-up.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
104. Heh
It seems to me that in the next few days, there are going to be some mighty hot flamewars on DU, no matter what the outcome.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. I think we'll be too busy celebratng. nt
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
110. Boo Fucking Yeah!!! Go Will, Go JL, Go RS Go Fitz!!!
there are several people out there who have been judge, jury, and executioner on this matter about TO instead of giving the benefit of the doubt to see how this plays out. They(TO) could have retracted the story on Monday but they didn't, in fact they ratcheted it up a few more degrees by putting themselves out further with interviews and articles since then. This sticking your neck out on line speaks volumes and until it is proven either way I think people should give TO the benefit of doubt and wait see. People are entitled to their opinions, but not when those opinions are thrust upon others in the form of an attack disguised as a concerned opinion

WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Wed May-17-06 04:02 PM
Original message

When the documents come out

they will have dates on the top.

Those dates will be Friday May 12, 2006.

Just as we said.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1217129&mesg_id=1217212
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Semblance Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #110
112. Until when?
I think people should give TO the benefit of doubt and wait see

Wait for how long? On what day do you say the story was probably wrong?
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #112
113. I think my post is pretty clear
Edited on Fri May-19-06 06:20 AM by stop the bleeding
until this is all over I am giving them the benefit of the doubt if this turns out to go against me - I will be the first one to put a "here's my ass now chew it off" thread and I will be eating crow pie until then wait and see.

On edit: Welcome to DU! ;)
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Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #112
114. Welcome to D.U.!
:toast:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
115. can we start a #10 thread?. . . . . n/t
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novalib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
116. **I** Still Believe William Pitt and Jason Leopold!!!
I have NEVER stopped believing William Pitt and Jason Leopold.

They are two of the MOST COURAGEOUS people I have ever seen!!

Mr. Pitt, and Mr. Leopold, if you are reading this: YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY ROCK!!!
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
118. self deleted
Edited on Fri May-19-06 07:27 AM by Jersey Devil
x
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
120. I'm taking a nap - wake me at 11 am
Hyman Roth: "I'm going to take a nap. When I wake up, if the money is on the table, I'll know I have a partner. If it isn't, I'll know I don't."

If there is no announcement of a news conference for this afternoon from The Office of Special Counsel by 11:00 a.m. this morning then I'll know it was all fantasy.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
127. Locking
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