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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:03 AM
Original message
remember the UK weapons scientist's strange death?

http://rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fpolitics.guardian.co.uk%2Firaq%2Fstory%2F0%2C%2C1779184%2C00.html


MP to investigate Dr Kelly's death

A backbench MP is to investigate the "unanswered questions" from the official inquiry into the death of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly.

The former Liberal Democrat environmental spokesman Norman Baker today revealed his decision to stand down from the shadow cabinet two months ago was based on a quest to establish the "truth" behind Dr Kelly's death.

Mr Baker said he wanted to return to the issue because the 2003 Hutton inquiry had "blatantly failed to get to the bottom of matters".

-snip-

Dr Kelly was found dead on July 18 2003 after being named as the possible source of a BBC story on the government's Iraq dossier.
-snip-
-----------------------------------------

wishing Baker good luck.

wish we had someone working on the anthrax murders.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Me too, instead they working on a national language
Like those people in New Orleans, seems like a lot of folks in DC had trouble understanding
the words: Help Me. Maybe they should make English comprehension mandatory for government
officials.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. I believe this is all wrapped with Plame, Judy Miller, the movement of
WMD and nuclear material into Iraq that was tracked by Brewster Jennings' "staff" (who foiled the planting of said materiale in my opinion).

The anthrax murders/letters are also linked with this as they were an intimidation scheme aimed at the media.

I think it is monumentally important that Dr. Kelly's murder is examined closely. If it's not too late, and if there's any evidence to be discovered, I believe there could be a lot of very, very incriminating information that could/should make it into the public eye.

I really doubt a backbench MP is the right person to get this done but perhaps his efforts may spark SOME real investigative journalists to finally begin digging.

kick!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well, the Kelly theory of Traitorgate is a very interesting one, and if
there is any public matter in the last five and half years that cries out for thorough investigation, it is this one. (I know, it's hard to choose!) But there is still a lot that is unknown. The thing that got me interested in it is the stunning coincidence of dates with the Plame affair. Kelly began whistleblowing, anonymously, to the BBC, about the "sexed up" prewar intel on Iraq WMDs, in late May 2003, just as the conspiracy to out Plame and silence whistleblower Wilson was heating up. The Blairite hunt within government for the BBC whistleblower's identity began. Kelly was mysteriously outed to his bosses in late June. He was interrogated at a "safe house" and threatened with the Official Secrets Act in the first week of July. On July 6, Joseph Wilson published his article about the bogus Niger/Iraq nuke connection (the ostensible trigger for the outing of Plame). The next day, July 7, Tony Blair was informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things" (Hutton report; COULD say, not HAD said). Kelly had ten days to live at this point. On July 14, Plame was outed, by Novak. Four days later, on July 18, Kelly was found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances; his office and computers were searched, and, four days after that, on, July 22, Novak ADDITIONALLY outed the entire CIA WMD counter-proliferation network that Plame headed, putting all of its covert agents/contacts at risk of getting killed and disabling all projects.

So, the Kelly outing, interrogation and death happened within the same two week period that our government was conspiring to out one of our own counter-proliferation agents and destroy the entire counter-proliferation network that we now know was working on Iran nukes, and was more than likely working on Iraq nukes back then. Kelly was also committed to counter-proliferation. He had been a UN weapons inspector in Iraq, and was a top WMD expert within the British government. (Note: Kelly suffered two outings--the outing within gov't, and how that happened is unknown--and, when they were done with him, his gov't then outed him to the press, and sent him home without protection and apparently without surveillance. His family reported him missing on July 17 when he didn't return from a walk in the countryside. He was found dead the next day, supposedly having slit one wrist and bled to death all night outdoors under a tree not far from his home.)

The Hutton investigation was a crock. They covered up and ignored everything that pointed to murder (and there is quite a lot that does). It's possible that Kelly committed suicide--isolated as he was, and in deep trouble, either for what he had said or what he "could say." But, in either case--driven to suicide, or murdered--the question WHY is the critical one, as related to the Plame outing. Why would a few anonymous words about "sexed up" intel from a British insider cause a suicide or murder? Reaction, yes. Hunt for the whistleblower, okay. "Swiftboating," surely. (They tried that, too.) Arguments, finger-pointing, ass-covering, firings, quittings--all understandable in a gov't that had lied about the war. But driving a white guy insider to suicide, or murdering him? Over allegations of "sexed up" intel? It makes about as much sense as outing an entire US counter-intelligence capability because of an op-ed in the New York Times.

SOMETHING ELSE was behind BOTH events. That is the WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate. In both cases, they were covering up something worse. And a Bushite plot to PLANT nukes in Iraq (not just lie about them being there), and Kelly and Plame/Brewster-Jennings having found out about it, and/or having participated in foiling it (since counter-proliferation was their JOB, in both cases) rather neatly fills the bill, and becomes more and more likely the more you look at the facts.

Kelly was a former UN weapons inspector with a strong commitment to counter-proliferation. He was a highly respected scientist, and a reputed "tough guy," who had gone nose to nose with Saddam Hussein (and also the Russians) on WMD issues. He supported the invasion of Iraq; he wanted Saddam ousted. Why, then, did he do a turnaround on that invasion, two months after it occurred, and begin whistleblowing about the pre-war lies? He was no peacenik. He was an INSIDER. The WMD-planting theory fits his psychology--he might have gone along with some coloring the facts to get Saddam ousted (and he did go along with it, though he tried to keep it factual), but he would have been appalled at OUR side engaging is such outright deceit as PLANTING the weapons and participating in a charade of "finding" them.

There IS someone for whom--on the surface of things, anyway--participating in such a charade might not have been a problem. Which brings me to Judith Miller, the most explicit known connection between the Plame and Kelly events. Miller was an old friend of Kelly. She had used him as a major quoted source in her book "Germs." In fact, Kelly's last email on this earth was to Judith Miller. He said he thought the controversy surrounding him would blow over soon. He was looking forward to his daughter's wedding in the fall, and returning to Iraq (where he had friends--he loved the country). But he also expressed concern about "the many dark actors playing games." This July 17 email--the day he died--was later released by his family; not by Miller (who wrote the NYT news article about Kelly's death without mentioning her close connections to him). At the least, it is evidence that he was forward-looking (not suicidal). But clearly he was puzzled by the trouble he had been in--and felt that "dark actors" (unknown persons) were operating against him. The "dark actors" email sends chills up one's spine, knowing what was about to happen a few hours later.

I DON'T KNOW what Miller's role was in either of these events, the Plame outing and the Kelly whistleblowing and death. No one does, at this point. We do know a lot about her in connection to the Plame outing, as well as her advocacy for the war, her promotion of false WMD information on the front pages of the NYT in the leadup to the war, her coziness with the Neo-Cons, and her "suffering" in jail to protect Scooter Libby. She had secret meetings with Libby about Plame's identity. She was deeply embedded in the conspiracy to invade and occupy Iraq. She was also very prominently in Iraq after the invasion, accompanying the US troops who were "hunting" for the WMDs that everybody knew weren't there. And it is really hard NOT to see her relationship with Kelly, and what happened to Kelly, in this context. But Miller could have been an unwitting tool in either event (Plame; Kelly), EVEN IF she was an advocate for the war and a liar about WMDs. Kelly himself could be described as a liar about the WMDs. (He helped prepare the "sexed up" intel, or at least signed off on it.) And maybe SHE was the one who balked at a WMD planting. Maybe she tipped Kelly off to it, and unwittingly triggered the events that led to his death. Who knows?

I think that is the main thing right now: WE DON'T KNOW. There are resonant coincidences of dates and themes. Two counter-proliferation experts disabled--one by outing, one by death--in the same week. The common issue of the lies about Iraq WMDs. The tight connection between Bush/Blair (daily phone calls, during that period). A context of psyops and cloak and dagger operations (like the "crude" Niger forgeries, and the doings of notorious Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar, present at the Rome meeting of Neo-Cons and Italian fascists, where the Niger forgeries were likely cooked up). And two powerful governments hanging in the balance. Was it public dissent they were worried about--that prompted these extreme actions (outing Plame/BJ, and killing Kelly or driving him to suicide)? Could they have been so frightened of a newsstream that they largely controlled? Or was it something hidden from our view, such as a scheme to plant nukes in Iraq--a scandal that not even the war profiteering corporate news monopolies could suppress, or "spin"--that they thought was about to be disclosed?

The Plame/BJ outing could also have been prompted by BJ's counter-proliferation efforts in Iran, a known BJ project (the Bush/Blair cabal would NOT want counter-proliferation to be successful in Iran--it would deprive them of their excuse to invade/occupy), or by other possible (but not known) BJ projects (Cheney/Bushite illicit arms dealings; 9/11 money trails). The events in England regarding Kelly, however--not to mention the panicky flurry of activity on AF-1 and on the ground in DC, during the July 6-14, 2003, period--point to there being a specific trigger for the Plame/BJ outings. Wilson's publication of July 6? Or Blair being informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things" on July 7? The first was more than likely expected. The second may not have been.
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Arazi Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Wow. Great background story
I hadn't heard it all summed up in one place like this before.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Fitzgerald's investigation is lurking in the background on this case?

It strains credulity to believe Kelly committed suicide if you ask me. It smells like the Bush Family way of offing their enemies.

Another poster on this thread mentioned the anthrax letters and someone else linked to the string of bio-scientist deaths. In your opinion, do you think the anthrax threats are mixed up in this too?

Thanks for the detailed information!
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. I saved this Truth is All thread about dead scientists:
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