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NYT confirms Murtha's story of Massacre in Iraq

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:34 AM
Original message
NYT confirms Murtha's story of Massacre in Iraq
Edited on Fri May-26-06 11:45 AM by FLDem5
This is one of those times when it sucks to be right.

WASHINGTON, May 25 — A military investigation into the deaths of two dozen Iraqis last November is expected to find that a small number of marines in western Iraq carried out extensive, unprovoked killings of civilians, Congressional, military and Pentagon officials said Thursday.

Two lawyers involved in discussions about individual marines' defenses said they thought the investigation could result in charges of murder, a capital offense. That possibility and the emerging details of the killings have raised fears that the incident could be the gravest case involving misconduct by American ground forces in Iraq.

<snip>
Evidence indicates that the civilians were killed during a sustained sweep by a small group of marines that lasted three to five hours and included shootings of five men standing near a taxi at a checkpoint, and killings inside at least two homes that included women and children, officials said.

<snip>
That evidence, described by Congressional, Pentagon and military officials briefed on the inquiry, suggested to one Congressional official that the killings were "methodical in nature."

The Marines also disclosed this week that a preliminary inquiry had found "sufficient information" to recommend a criminal probe into the killing of an Iraqi civilian on April 26 near Hamandiyah, a village west of Baghdad.


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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Investigations aim to uncover truth in alleged Iraq massacre
from the Army Times:

Marine Corps leaders are preparing Congress for what is expected to be the terrible truth uncovered in the investigation of a Nov. 19 incident that left as many as 24 Iraqi civilians dead and three Marines relieved of their commands.

A key member of Congress said he “wouldn’t be surprised” if a dozen Marines faced courts-martial for allegedly killing Iraqi civilians in Hadithah last November. Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said that the number of dead Iraqis, first reported to be 15, was actually 24. He based that number on a Wednesday briefing from Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Mike W. Hagee.

<snip>
Three officers from the 3/1, including battalion commander Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani, were relieved April 7 for “lack of confidence in their leadership abilities stemming from their performance during a recent deployment to Iraq.”

The two other Marines who were relieved, Capts. Luke McConnell and James Kimber, were company commanders in the battalion.


This is an excellent, detailed article - I highly recommend reading the entire thing.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. E&P | U.S. Military Admits Iraq Massacre
Months after press uncovers it:

"When these investigations come out, there's going to be a firestorm," retired Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms, formerly a top lawyer for the Marine Corps, told The Washignton Post for a Friday story. "It will be worse than Abu Ghraib -- nobody was killed at Abu Ghraib."

An Army lawyer who has heard some accounts of the investigation told thge Post, "It's a lot more serious than people thought at the beginning. It's really bad timing," coming as the repercussions of the Abu Ghraib detainee abuse scandal are waning.

<snip>
Three Marine officers — the battalion commander and two company commanders in Haditha at the time — have been relieved of duty, although officials have declined to link that action to the probe, the Times noted.

Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.), a retired Marine colonel, told the Times that the allegations indicated that "this was not an accident. This was direct fire by marines at civilians." He added, "This was not an immediate response to an attack. This would be an atrocity."



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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's depressing
It's even more depressing to consider how this will be spun by Bush's supporters.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. it breaks my heart - you can't even imagine
even after Abu Ghraib, even after Guantanamo.

*sigh*

We need to clean house in the military - leadership is top down. The unholy three - Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld - set this ugly tone.

We need Wes Clark in charge. Just my .02.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. "Civilian Casualties?" What an interesting euphemism for murder
NYT neo-con scum sucking rag of a forking paper.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I put that there - I couldn't bring myself to type 'massacre'
Edited on Fri May-26-06 11:45 AM by FLDem5
sorry if that was misleading.

(on edit: I fixed it)
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I didn't read the link
My fault.

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Extensive, unprovoked killings of civilians"
This is what happens in war. Every time. This is what we send our military out to do with our tax dollars and in our name. Every time, they do this. We insist that they be trained to kill. Nothing less than lethal is acceptable. Nothing about the military is life-affirming, and that is by design. You might as well get mad at an avalanche or a hurricane for killing people in its path.

No, the blame here attaches to an administration that sees every problem as a nail, and the only tool it knows how to use is the hammer. They revel in it, they glory in it. It makes their own failures earlier in life easier to rationalize and justify in their own minds.

We need a societal change, one where violence is not seen as a redemptive force.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. wouldn't bombing civilians while they sleep be a massacre as well?
And how about all of that White Phosphorous used to kill hundreds in Fallujah? I consider that a massacre as well/ The US rountinely kills innocent Iraqis from the Air. That is massacring people!
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. they label those deaths as "collateral damage"
I guess these are too deliberate to label as such.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. Ugh!
What a complete lack of command and control.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. They showed video on CBS last night.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It has been shown on CNN off and on all day.
I am glad that it is getting some exposure on MSM.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yet another case of a Democrat coming forward,
being accused "lack of Patriotism" and siding with the enemy - and being proven right.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I don't watch CNN anymore. It's my personal protest.
But I'm happy to read that they might be putting out some news that the American people need to see.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. "Marines Murdered Iraqis" as a headline!
Holy shit.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. Lock 'em up for life.
Lt. Calley and others got away with My Lai with little more than a slap on the wrist.

Any soldier that deliberately hurts a civilian should be prosecuted and punished severely.

The officers that ordered the indiscriminate bombing in Afghanistan should be punished as well.

If we do not police our own ranks, we are no better than the Romans, crucifying innocent people.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. from the articles it seems they will make an example of them
and I am glad. While I can't place myself in their state of mind during the incident - what they did was unforgivable.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. they are covering this on The Situation Room
Edited on Fri May-26-06 06:06 PM by FLDem5
"no one has been charged yet, but they are expected."

"as many as 24 civilians killed in the raid."

Safa Younis (only remaining family member who survived out of a family of 7): "they entered the bathroom and set off a grenade... then the Americans started shooting at us." She survived by pretending she was dead.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. the Marines are in Camp Pendlteon and have retained attorneys.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. This happened last November!
Why are we just hearing about it now? Where are those embedded reporters that are supposed to be covering these stories?
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