It's been two weeks since Rove was indicted.

What's the story?
Has anyone from TO provided any more information?
Are we just going to let this die like Corporate Media lets things die?
Where is Leopold's revelation of his sources, as promised? Can he at least say what the deadline date for that is?

is dead, too? Hastert denies. DOJ denies. ABC is not retracting.

Can't believe a damned thing from ABC News!

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did I step into your realm? Are comments on this story only allowed to certain members? I never got a new member packet on that. Maybe I should check my email.

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The Jesse MacBeth story blew over WAY to early or else I would still be on that one. Haven't laughed like that in ages.

Or a retraction - not that one is needed, since the story's already been proven demonstrably untrue, but it would be nice if the people who put it out there showed some repect for their readers and the loyal devotees who have spent the past two weeks fruitlessly defending their indefensibl acts?

Or even a simple apology?

Or, maybe, a look at that May 12th indictment, if all else fails?

To do nothing is the ultimate "fuck you" to the people who believed them.

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and replied to it.

I think maybe you're "getting too far out in front of the (reality) cycle," myself.

dumb ass.

but not to me...

dated May 12... and we learn of intense plea bargaining?

You want them to make stuff up?

What if it's a developing story?

Relax.

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you can't get fooled again.

Txleo has not been fooled again on this one.

We're having a small Carvel Ice Cream Cake party for that one, too.

We're all dressing up like bugs.

I miss Fudgy

but the piece de resistance will be a cake shaped like a 4th floor lockdown.

We just don't quite know what shape that is yet, however.

Suggestions?

and some different colored ice cream and toppings. That's how they make the clown.

cat's name is Fudgy.

You got to celebrate ALL the little victories...

"Truthout" has burned me badly in the past, and I have absolutely no confidence in them. If you haven't heard something from at least 2, preferably 3 or more, reputable sources, you should forget about it until you do. Unless, of course, you like the feeling of doubt.

to anything TO released that turned out not to be true. I wonder why that is. I ask every single time I see one of these threads pop up. Curious, isn't it?

courts let an indictment stand. If Rove was indicted on May 12th and given 24 hours to get his shit together, how long do you think Rove gets to keep working at the White House, with full security clearance, while he has been indicted by a GJ? How long does a federal court pussyfoot around with an indictment that was handed to someone 15 REAL days ago?

Under any circumstances that is a huge mistake.

that were bulletproof and delivered over two weeks ago. Come on. Seriously. If the GJ indicted, there is not much that Bushco could do to stop the wheels from turning without having serious problems. Obstruction of justice would be a MUCH bigger deal than lieing under oath about a blowjob.

Day after day they come up with new ways not to follow the rules.

H. Hughes had numerous outstanding federal indictments against him for years! (He answered one and never went back!)
Throughout those years, the Hughes conglomerate of businesses were awarded many government contracts worth billions of dollars.
Even if */* were both found guilty of treason and imprisoned, they would still be doing business in multi billion dollar no-bid contracts with the government.

you think that Fitzgerald got and delivered an indictment against Rove and just isn't going to do anything more about it? Oh well, so he doesn't answer, guess he can go on running the country. That sounds like EXACTLY what happened in the Libby indictment. Oh, wait, no, that was totally different.

I think we haven't heard from him because he's using the indictment to put the squeeze on Rove to get to Cheney, if not Bush himself.

:headbang:
rocknation

The threat of an indictment seems like it would be more of a squeeze than an actual indictment, no?

Do you know for a fact he isn't? Fitz has always moved slowly and carefully. Is there any reason to believe this is not the case now?

a small example: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_100104A.shtml.

Now about 3/4 of the way down the page is a quote that was very widespread on TO a couple of years ago. I was in the "Bush lied", "OH Yeah? Give me one example." argument with someone. I used the finding OBL tact and quoted the "I don't care line". While Bush said things that were similar, he never, that I could verify, said that. I used it, was proved wrong, and left looking foolish. If I can't rely on TO for a word for word quote regarding something so easily verifiable, why would I rely on anything else they said unless verified by a third party? The truth is damning enough. No need to embellish, and if you're going to use the "they were fooled by someone else" line, so be it. It still paints a clear picture of their reliability.

There's your link.
Enjoy it.

I don't get how this answers my question or addresses my statement.

read my post below...

Imagine having to check the veracity of every single quote when reprinting an article on your website!

That article was written by

Bush-Cheney Flip-Flops Cost America in Blood
By Joel Connelly
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Wednesday 29 September 2004

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/192828_joel29.html

Does he write for Truthout or are you now expecting Truthout to proof all of the material they repost on their site?

Does the line "I don't care" null and void the argument that Bush was extremely casual and downplaying the OBL search? I've seen the video and it's clear that he was downplaying the search AS IF he didn't care. Here is the salient text from the news conference:

" THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country...."



"It still paints a clear picture of their reliability."

No, actually it doesn't say much of anything. Other sites repeating that exact same line:

http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/articles/bushflipflopper.htm

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=1753

http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/hell/whosgoingtohell-2002-03-18.htm

http://www.skirsch.com/politics/dean/campaignMessage.htm

There are an awful lot more references to that bad quote being bandied about the internet.



I hope there is more than that one line written by a writer independent from TO in your criticism!!

I've been reading them for several years and found them to be way more truthful and accurate than, let's say, the MSM that led us to war ~

As for sources, you must not have followed this story. Jason Leopold had multiple sources according to him and his editors ~ and he and they are standing by those sources.

Some think that the fierce attacks on Leopold are being orchestrated because there is someone who is very interested in his sources, rather than in him ~ could be. This administration has threatened to imprison reporters, whistle-blowers and just about anyone who tells the truth about them.

I've been trying to figure out who benefits from this clearly orchestrated attack. I think you may have just outed it!

Bravo!

refer to my reply to reply #65.

I now consider that site to be right up there with Matt Drudge.

as a result of all this ~ those who are making a career out of this, ought to remember what happened with Clinton. Initially, had the vicious attacks not happened, Democrats themselves were upset with him, but the attackers were so much worse than anything he had done, the whole thing back-fired and he ended up when he left office being one of the most popular presidents ever!!

Truthout will most likely end up the same way ~ several people I have talked to who have witnessed these attacks on DU (even the rightwing blogs seem to have moved on) have chosen to support TO. Unpleasantness like is a total turn-off and only serves to drive fence-sitters over to the side of the object of the attacks. It's an innate sense of justice. The attacks far outweigh anything TO may have done and cause people to wonder what's behind it.

not here.
where is it?
link, please.

this alone makes me suspect. Not sure in exactly what way, but I am suspect. Flotsam non apologies don't count.

suspicious of. If you don't know what you're suspicious of, why start a whole thread about it? You were told where to go for answers ~ seems to me you don't want answers. But I could be wrong! We all make mistakes, every once in a while. Thank god we don't all have a whole clique of stalkers when we do. What a world it would be if that were the case! :rofl:

consider your blessings. I'm just allowed to speak.
or am I?

Or do you demand he comes to DU to answer your questions? We aren't the "end all" for any of the media. They hardly know we even exist.

sure, like it's my fault for not digging the story out of Leopold. silly me, slacking on the job again.

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I certainly don't.

I am.

guess there's something inherently wrong with me, then. Please forgive me for wanting some answers.

He himself posted on DU the indictment happened on May 12.

Certainly he knows DU exists.

That's all I'm saying.

I don't wear kneepads.

what's with the knee-pad reference...

why doesn't anyone want to explain the knee-pads reference?

That's just effing wrong.

If this language offends anyone, sorry, it is the same as saying knee-pads no matter how you spin it.. It is a slam and ridicule and needs to be pointed out at every opportunity...

Thank you very much :hi:

It is just ridiculous the rhetoric being spewed on these threads - and this is just the obvious stuff. The more knife-twisting rhetorical techniques used by the grudge crowd are something to behold. I've never seen DUers so viciously attacked by so few so consistently. It's getting to be a regular routine here. :D

and I have spent a great deal of time on this board... I don't understand the animosity being thrown about. :shrug:

I get the feeling that the most bitter were the least careful to wait on the story before repeating it or are people who have a personal interest in this story (as in very personal). We may never know - but I have a memory like an elephant when it comes to this level of bitterness. I will have trouble trusting the judgment of the grudge-match crowd from this point forward. I was accused by one of supporting the story because I will not speak out against it and support the right of DUers to believe what they want to :eyes: What an awful person I am :eyes:

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them for what they believe? Are you using innuendo and ridicule as your 2 major focus points? Are you in a burning scathing mood because of Truthout, Jason and Will and their false story??


Well if you are then you definitely belong to this club.....

I'm careful about the name thing for sure. I think defending oneself can get rather rough. Oh, and asking for proof is not a good thing. Asking about alternative agendas should probably be avoided.

I am always careful - hitting alert is sometimes the best policy when the argument turns sour IMHO.

but slippery speech abounds.

...if his apparent mistake turns out to have been his own fault.

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to have thick skin to post on this forum... Perhaps I should pass the advice on to you...

...but personal abuse should certainly be worth an apology. We got one, didn't we?

Good enough for me. No one knows the entire story. We don't know BushCo's reaction to this so any demands for more info are just stupid.

the answers? Why don't you do some research for yourself? Are you actually sincerely interested or do you just want to start some more shit?

Rove is Indicted. That's the shit that started it all.
Now you're examing My shit for having some healthy curiousity?

a measley two weeks?
my cottage cheese in my fridge has a longer life span than that.
Two week old horse baloney tho, does get a bit smelly.

there are festering sores infested in DU and it is a shame... They just keep getting bigger and bigger till they are going to pop and I wish they would.....

innocent Iraqis? Your shit is pretty insignificant in the scheme of things ~ I hate to tell you that ~ why is this more important to you than the deaths of our troops, of the Iraqi people, of the torture of human beings being done in the name of this country?

More important than the really big story of this week, the conviction of yet another one of Bush's friend and biggest contributors, Kenneth Lay?

Maybe the developing Duke Cunningham scandal which may involve even more Republican Congressmen and other Bush cronies?

How about some outrage over Katrina, and the fact that bodies are still being found there and we still do not know how many actually died? Why not demand some answers to some of those questions?

Why is a story in a small internet blog such an obsession for you? I'm just asking, it' quite a phenomenon from my experience ~

Oh, and I thought the mods said there were to be no more threads on this subject?? Did that rule change?

It has gone beyond healthy into obsessive compulsive behavior...

As someone who lurks more than posting at every opportunity, I am so relieved to post this today. I've read most of the threads regarding Leopold's Rove revelations. Many were angry comments and some attacked Mr. Leopold and William Pitt. As someone who would like to see Karl Rove incarcerated for a good many years, I will NEVER again give Jason Leopold an ounce of belief, credibility, faith....what have you. My hopes for some small measure of justice rested with what Mr. Leopold reported. Contributors to this site consistently vouched for Jason and my impression was that if you were one of the unfortunates asking about his credibility--it felt to me these readers were slammed in a way for questioning whether this reporting could be trusted. I'd checked myself reports that Jason Leopold had some believability issues from the past. Now I know first hand why these issues were raised. It is not my responsibility to give Truthout And Jason Leopold my 'forgiveness' per the apology of Mark Ash. It is their responsibility to not mislead the public. Good luck Mr. Leopold.

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:thumbsup:

is causing shitdoggedness and beating the DU community up?

...okay....
and there is a direct relationship between TO and DU. It's Pitt. and even if it wasn't, I still don't see your point of not talking about something that wasn't originated here. I don't understand, please explain.

I'll cut and paste:
I said (up above^)
"Right from the start people started in on being skeptical of the story and they have every right, if not the responsibility to be skeptical of what is reported."

Now, what is your question?

beating those poor noble beasts to death, with skeptical questions?

I think that's a question.

But once again, if you have questions about Jason Leopold's story, ask him. The people at DU know just as much as you do so asking it here isn't a way to get an answer, it is almost like you ask here just to cause some problems. :shrug:

After that, you need to ask the people who can answer your question.

you really put it on my head to get answers out of Leopold or TO or Pitt? hahah

don't you think they have more invested in their story than I have in asking about it?
Not like this has been a non-issue here. They know, they don't come forward, by choice.

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Thanks though. I didn't think I said anything wrong in that post, but I guess someone didn't like it. The thing is, I don't know any of the people that are involved in the story, but I find it difficult to read the posts that attack people here just because they want to discuss the situation in an intelligent and adult manner.

It is obvious to me that there is a small group that have an agenda, but I guess there is really nothing that can be done about it. They have their right to mock members here I guess.

They are good at using more sophisticated rhetoric that is just not as much like the initial thrusting of the knife, but more akin to the twisting of it after it has been inserted. I have lost a huge amount of respect for the folks who have taken their agenda to the streets to so effectively assault anyone who wishes to have an intelligent open-minded discussion of this issue.

It's disgusting but they are playing (just barely) within the rules here. Oh, well. :eyes:

I like this character because he/she is able to say the most with the fewest number of words!

Apparently I should not have used the word "whiner" in my title :rofl:

Gosh, are people here getting sensitive or what? :D

I think it's best just to stay away from these types of threads. It isn't worth getting banned for standing up for members of DU against a very small group of trouble-makers, especially over such an obvious transparent agenda.

Hell, it's a beautiful day here today, I have some kabob meat marinating and some corn on the cob for the grill and some cold beer. I'll let the few people that are obsessed with Leopold to go at it themselves. I have a day to enjoy.

I might want to fire up the grill myself :D

You have to admit it though, it's tough not to look over at the accident on the other side of the highway as you pass by it - isn't it? :D

But it's like seeing the same accident over and over. :)

Ok, who's song is that you have linked? That is funny as hell.

http://www.disenfranchisedmusic.com/

The guy there writes the songs and posts them there. After the 2004 election the only thing that could console me was to listen to that song over and over and over again. I even played it for my workmates and they laughed out loud as well. He has other songs there as well, but "Nation of Ass Holes" is the best bar far in my opinion. Even if I drove an SUV, I would still laugh while listening to that song :rofl:

i could use a beer myself:)

I have had the exact same thoughts as you as I have witnessed this saga over the past couple of weeks. I've also been attacked by the "select group" myself for merely taking a "wait and see" attitude and pointing out that even if this particular story is false, the bigger picture is that this Plame/Fitz story is years in the making and this isn't the first false start WRT Rove. I'm a grown-up and I certainly don't need these smart-asses telling me how to interpret this story by insulting my intelligence or hurling whatever other slights/insults at me (and others) for simply wanting to discuss this issue with an open mind. Thanks for your post.

blog. I put my hopes for justice on our judicial system and have found Mr. Leopold's reporting on that entire process to be invaluable and I thank him for it ~

If I were you, I would not place my hopes for justice on blogs. They have no power to other than to do what Mr. Leopold has done so well in the past, keep you informed on the progress towards justice.

You know, we are really not that important, our little wishes and desires are pretty insignificant. When we start believing they are, we will be disappointed.

I assume you did not pay Mr. Leopold to get justice for you. You are free to read or not read what he or anyone else provides to you free of charge. You really don't have much of a case I'm afraid.

That said, welcome to DU ~ different opinions are always interesting ~ even when we disagree with them ~ and if you have been following this case at all, the justice you seek may be coming soon. Thanks to the reporting of people like Mr. Leopold, we know that for a fact even if we don't know exactly when. I'll survive without the actual dates, and I think so will you :hi:

What's the story?

Don't know.

Has anyone from TO provided any more information?

No.

Are we just going to let this die like Corporate Media lets things die?

We'll let it die when you let it die.

Where is Leopold's revelation of his sources, as promised? Can he at least say what the deadline date for that is?

He'll reveal his sources if it is proven that Rove wasn't indicted on those dates.

Stay tuned.

I thought it was truth that had the real meaning here. So what are you proposing - for a lie to die or for the truth to die? Both make me feel very uncomfortable and the fact that I'm bringing this up makes me some kind of enabler, of something sinister, besides the story....

please explain.

It probably will but you have to stop bringing it up. Then you'll get your wish.

not bringing it up is not my idea of questing it.

This post could have been a one response thread. If only...

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The "user" was well under attack long before the "incident" on that Sunday. All one has to do is to do a little digging in the archives here at DU and see the same people who are capitalizing on the "Sunday" rant by the user as the same people who were attacking the "user" well before the Rove story. It doesn't take a genius to see what is going on.

I am not sticking up for the "user". I don't know the person, have never spoken to the person nor am I on the person's payroll. I just know that there is a group of people that were looking for a way to tear the "user" down and took this Rove thing to do it.

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:eyes:

Yowsa!

or is it hyperboles, the plural. its really over the top stuff about Will Pitt.

We're not morans here at DU, please don't write this stuff as if we are. Because
it is you who are insulting people here, not Mr. Pitt.

Jayzuz I don't understand why people are out to trash him so much.

:hi: :silly:

:hi: :beer:

here, its on me.

Beware the Hyperbole;)

PB

I read that already.

Yes? :hi:

this 'story' would have less legs.

I have no problem with forgiveness or forgetfullness on a story that doesn't pan out. But to have someone defend an obvious truthiness challenged story by way of insulting the questioners ... that's so unprofessional and low I don't know where to start to explain it, cuz it seems some 'splaining has to be done to some here. but I can't do it.

.

by Wednesday. Try that.

It ain't over 'til it's over.

We may very well see an indictment dated May 12 and learn of all the plea bargaining... at some point down the road.

Do you think those who have bashed TO would apologize under those circumstances? I bet not.

From one of the completely and admittedly innocuous people on this board, let me just say (for once, because I NEVER participate in these shit storms) that I am so sick of this topic.

So FOR ONCE, and for one time only, I feel compelled to write -- and for once and for one time only -- I will risk the flames of the USUAL SUSPECTS on this topic and all the other topics (and again, I remind you that I am an unheard of reader/participant on this board who USUALLY AVOIDS these kinds of threads like the plague and cancer that they are...)

BUT I AM SICK UNTO DEATH OF THIS TOPIC!!!!! LET IT FUCKING GO!

I have no dog in this fight. I really don't give a shit about the Leopold story. I wish that Rove were indicted, and it's too bad that Jason "got played" or had shotty reporting. But I don't know what happened, and I've moved on.

But I spend a couple of hours on this board each day trying VERY hard to avoid reading yet another shitstorm about Leopold, about religion, about Bev Harris, about DLC, about Hillary, about DKos, about Dean, about the purity of whatever candidate, about so-and-so's litmus test -- about whatever the hell else topic that has sub-threads that digress/devolve into personal attacks and idiocy which lower the level of discourse, and makes readers like innocuous-me write responses like this that lower the level of discourse even further.

To myself and to everyone else on this thread: IT IS TIME TO GROW THE FUCK UP. I guarantee THAT IT IS THE SAME OLD USUAL SUSPECTS IN THIS THREAD, which begs the question: What are they here for? THE LEOPOLD STORY IS SOOOOO TWO-WEEKS-AGO. That horse is dead and the flesh is rotting, and yet here come the boot-stompers to gleefully kick it some more - just to bring attention to themselves and to their grudge, I suspect. Let go of your grudgematch. You were not wounded personally, I'm certain, so forget it.

Here's my santimonious moment: Maturity is about letting things go and embracing the truly important matters. The Iraq war is an abomination. There are human beings dying by the thousands in Sudan, and the UN and USA are side-stepping it -- another abomination. We are sliding into fascism here. There are over 100,000 hungry children within the US border right now -- they might not have dinner tonight. Bill O'Reilly is vile and yet actually has a television show where he is encouraged to be vile. The Leopold story isn't even a blip on the radar compared to what should be important enough to write about - for that matter, neither is Karl Rove, indicted or not. There are so many important, mind-expanding topics, that it blows the mind.

So, I am begging you as a fellow progressive to JUST LET IT GO and stop flooding the "Greatest" page with this CRAPPOLA.

Whatever. I will be flamed and I just don't give a shit and I'm not going to respond. I am not talking about Leopold and that article at all, and there will be people who just won't get it.

There are two journals on the Home page right now that are terrific. They are skillfully written and they may or may not make the Greatest Page or receive many comments. I am grateful that Skinner and the mods go through the journals to separate the gold from the dross, and have put them on the Home page, which most DU'ers may not even read. And Lord knows I have rarely dared to contribute much of anything on this board, and yes, I do recognize that this is just more dross.

But these shitstorms IMHO are created by a very few rather self-important, control-freak, shit-stirring spoons and are the worst thing about this board for their very redundancy (what is this, the 1200th thread on this OLD NEWS topic?) and yet IT will be on the Greatest for a whole day.

As I said, I have not really participated in a flamewar before and never will again, so here's my moment. But I will ask whoever reads this to consider that point. If a DU member and donator like me, who none of you have ever heard of, is so very DONE with this, how exactly are the "shit stirrers" and their shit-storms contributing to the quality of this board???? Entertainment, perhaps? Only for the first day or two. After that, these kinds of posts are merely an exercise in self-importance of the little cliques that hang out together.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating censorship or limiting discussion topics. And I'm not talking about the original poster specifically nor the Leopold story specifically -- I'm addressing the pattern of behavior. Here's the money shot: I'm weighing the value of threads where the real purpose seems to be the airing of personal grudges and sheer pettiness. I'm questioning the value of threads from posters who just seem to want more attention and get it by trashing other people's/candidate's/newspaper's reputations and seemingly do it to increase their own importance. This kind of thread (and my response) is not edifying to anyone. It's so high school.

Just to be clear, I don't regard my own participation as particular important to DU. I am not in a clique (obviously). I rarely even post or respond. I just read and read and read DU and other progressive sites because I am so very interested in getting my country back. I want to be an activist and don't know how to make a difference. I guess I had hoped we were all rowing in the same direction. I really want to believe that. But this petty crappola is holding the board back. And I think it's a metaphor for the Democratic party and in a broader sense, for the lack of success in most people's personal lives. That petty stuff keeps you from growing.

I have long held the philosophical belief that the only "unforgiveable sin" (often referred to as blaspheming the Holy Spirit) is holding a grudge and not being willing to forgive.

So on forgiveness, please forgive me this one outburst, and I will once again forgive the shit-stirrers on this board. But please think about this: if a thread doesn't have anything positive to contribute to the forward movement of this board or this Party or this country -- at least rethink recommending the damned thread.

---
tcb

stings, no?
does me.
so if we can't even pretend to grasp what this is all about, let's not try to get a baby's grip on a buttered anvil here. (from get your war on). It applies.

edited for including 'elections'.

You just don't get it. You don't seem to understand what's important, that's all. Darfur. Darfur.

Darfur.


Darfur.


The Iraq war is an abomination.

You just have a grudge here. You have a clique. You think your posts about Leopold's stupid story are meaningful. You have a little clique.

Darfur.

Darfur.

Stings, doesn't it? Does me. Go butter your own anvil some more.


Darfur.

but if we can't handle something in our own back yard with some integrity and honesty, in this somewhat non issue of importance to anyone's basic survival compared to Darfur, not much can be done with problems elsewhere. It all starts with honesty, it all starts here and now and how it translates to open dialogue.

Because I opened this topic it makes me somehow unconscious of Darfur?

please explain.

Leopold story, not that you don't care about the other issues. I'm saying that Darfur threads don't make it to Greatest. I don't question your reasons for being on this board, but I do question your interest in this topic. And that's fair for me to do so. You are giving it an enormous amount of weight. I'm saying that more energy and space and "ink" has been devoted to this Leopold TO issue than almost anything else I've seen on DU since I found this place. And all of it far too nasty for my taste. I'm saying that there's been plenty of discussion from every possible angle on the Leopold story already on this board and on some other boards, and that I am really starting to wonder about why this keeps coming up... and why it's so personal for some people.

You mention honesty. Is it honest to keep bringing this up? What is your motivation? Do you know the author personally? Are you a journalist? Asking you this is all very fair.

We will find out the answers to your OP questions eventually. Either we will find out that Leopold was lead astray, was knowingly duping us, that he is a screw-up OR... we will find out that he was right the whole time and that the whole thing was sealed for some yet TBD sinister or good reason... BUT why does it matter to you so much? If you're looking for honesty in journalism, why not start with the New York Times or CNN, or one of the lib sites with a bigger readership than TO - like HuffingtonPost even... Why is TO "our backyard"? I would never to say that. DailyKos gets all the readers.

I was thinking your interest was more about calling attention to yourself and your clique and to your sense of humor in an OP. If that's wrong, then tell me what it's really about, and why your thread sheds light in a significant new way... As I said, I'm fairly sure that every angle has already been covered ad nauseum (I'm sure there were 700 threads about how progressive journalists needing to be better, held to a higher standard) so why it is so important to you that this topic not die after 1200 threads?

If the posters on this topic had put this energy into the hydrogen cell battery, man, we'd all be driving without gas by now, huh?

If what I say happens to agree with others that you don't like, does not make me a member of the water buffalo club handshake.

This is a serious issue, I am sorry you do not realise that for it's import, but would rather question me and my 'motives'.

so it's not about who you agree or don't agree with. I don't track DU members in any way although I probably read 70% of the threads on here... (it's kind of like how I remember the song, but never remember the name of the band...) I don't have a buddy list and I don't have an ignore list and I don't really "get to know" any DU'ers from their posts or anything. Sometimes I remember avatars.

For me, it's about going onto DU to find yet another thread on this same thing, same thing, same thing, AND more nastiness, nastiness, nastiness on this same thing. And I'm questioning you on it import and trying to pull you out to discuss the import. You say you are sorry for me that I do not understand its import -- so...what is that exactly, I mean, in a way that hasn't already been discussed over and over (and over). Why post again? Why NOT question YOUR motives? YOU brought it up!

You think this is serious. I do not agree. At least I don't feel it's important anymore (and that's my MAIN point isn't it? TWO WEEKS AGO THIS WAS SERIOUS. Now it's not.)

Now if Karl Rove comes on here to post about it -- then THAT will be new and worth reading. And if Karl Rove gets indicted, two weeks ago or ever in his lifetime, then THAT will be worth reading, and I WILL BUY YOU A BEER.

is that not allowed?

-Rove Indicted May 12, two weeks ago, I'm waiting for that and an explanation of the scoop that shoveled something at us all here.

I'll buy you 9 beers on the starship enterprise halodeck at any place or time in the world you like, if Rove is indicted. :)
but that date won't be on May 12th.

name the place and time! it's on me!

Nine beers on the holodeck in any world I name? Woo hoo! And they'd be bought for me by Star Trek liberal geek Jigarotta who is the last remaining bastian for truth and accuracy in reporting! Man, I am so stoked!

And of course, you can ask anything you want. My original point is the same... It's getting tedious avoiding this kinds of threads on this subject and all the other fractious subjects.

Why would you bother to hold a grudge against a reporter just because the story didn't turn out? Big effing deal, welcome to the world of disappointment and disillusionment. What! Did it falsely get your hopes up? Do you think the readers of "Dewey beats Truman" bludgeoned that editor to death?

If Leopold was played by his sources, then isn't that a curiosity to you? Or would you still want Leopold bludgeoned to death?

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I cannot résume my whole life and who I am for you and I find it silly for you to ask.

and don't call me dishonest for it, that's bloody shabby.

and I take your questions not in genuine interest to who I am, but something you want to hold over me like a bare lighbulb in a small dark room.

take it somewhere else.

(am I male or female. lol!) really good cub scout interrrogation question there, sport.

questions because you presented yourself as someone who is on a mission in pursuit of 'honesty' and extremely demanding of others when it comes to transparency. How ironic therefore that you, yourself refuse to even say how long you have been on DU! You are hiding even the minimal amount of information people generally make available in their bios here.

I'm not interested in holding anything over you. I'm interested in being able to guage how credible your are, and how seriously I should take anything you say. In that sense, you've already answered my questions. It's pretty hypocritical to demand answers from others, if you refuse to even say 'I've been a DUer for x number of months, weeks, years. It could lead people to think you have something to hide.

You have spent virtually hours and dozens of repetitive posts making demands for answers from someone who owes you nothing. Once you put your words out in public, as you have done, you become as vulnerable to questioning as anyone else. You don't have to answer, just as Jason Leopold or Will Pitt don't, but there are consequences for you as for them when you don't. The consequence is credibility. Right now, they are way ahead of you in the credibility department, imo.

They, at least, have had the courage to identify themselves and take the rap that goes along with publishing one's words. You apparently don't.

I got the answer I need, thank you ~ I will give your words all the credibility they deserve from now on.

although i rarely post, i read DU several times a day. There seems to be an all-out orchestrated attempt on these threads not only to destroy TO, but also DU by association. I really wish the admins would do us all a favor, and lock these threads immediately & reprimand its authors.

They always devolve, inevitably, into an all-out flamefest. I could not agree more on the "credibility" issue. If you demand honesty & transparency in others, then you should be just as forthcoming. And a hidden profile sets off certain alarms.

:yourock:

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Could not of said it any better myself...

but if we can't handle something in our own back yard with some integrity and honesty, in this somewhat non issue of importance to anyone's basic survival compared to Darfur, not much can be done with problems elsewhere

Doctors without borders, eg, they should be sitting behind a computer screen demanding answers about a story on a remote website before deciding they can take the time to go actually save some lives!! Hillarious! :rofl:

You are funny!

have everything to do with the war in Iraq.

Imagine that. From a DUer.

Now where have I heard that statement before?---Let's see, oh yeah I remember---It was a GOP meme for months after the 2000 election. And speaking of 2000, how can any DUer say that was a fair and square election?

Excellent post. :thumbsup:

I'm also sick of this topic - perhaps it's my morbid curiosity that wants to see if the "grudge" people will show up and bash away on the people who have an open mind or just don't care so much that brings me in. Why does traffic back up on the opposite side of the highway when an accident occurs?

take us away from the realities of the horrors of the bush administration.

Just as the media portrays the 'missing person' stories as the most news worthy items on the planet, the rest of the world cries out to be heard w/problems of hunger, disease, war and disaster. While these 'nonstories' are pushed to the forefront, we lose sight of what the administration is doing to upset the very balance of democracy here in the US; we lose sight of the issues that affect not only American citizens, but of the world's citizenry as well.

If Rove gets indicted, I'll be ecstatic, but as our men and women get killed and maimed in an unjust war, do I care at this point?...No.

There are so many other items we should be worrying about and enjoining our collective powers to remedy, and yet we bash this stuff into the ground with an energy that could be much better spent.

It is imperative that we work to retake Congress in '06, but we are more worried about an event we have little control over at this point...this is sad indeed...:(

Speaking only a member of DU, I say: "Rant on my friend, I'm right there with you".

:D

what are you saying?
what I say about online profiles, is they are generally useless - to me anyway. I hardly Ever look at a profile, I just read what the person has to say. but I'm funny that way.

so what inside info do you want on me? and how can I explain my life and thoughts to anyone by a 'profile'?

what are you accusing me of?

Have 24 hours passed?

Was publically verifiable evidence provided?

Thanks!

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We are probably pretty much done with this thread which has turned into a flaming mess. It's a holiday weekend...Go out....play with the dog.....kiss the kids....but this bashing back and forth needs to be put to rest.