Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What exactly was in that info from Jefferson's office that is causing so..

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 06:56 PM
Original message
What exactly was in that info from Jefferson's office that is causing so..
Why should an Attorney General and FBI Director gointo free fall and maybe resign over the 'release' of info from Dem rep Jefferson's office? What is it? Is it bad? Seems kinda major? The American public should be offered an explanation? Perhaps our elected representatives could ask too?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Could it show
that all the corrupt politicians were in cahoots together? If so, Jefferson would have links to all the repukes that are in hot water, and maybe some more. My guess is the info hurts repukes more than Dems-otherwise it would be all over the news by now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. something really deep here
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. I agree
There is something rotten in congress, and it's rotten from the head down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Probably needed a corrupt Democrat to prove to the public
that they are all in cahoots. Hard to find corrupt Democrats nowadays. The repubs are holding all the corruption cards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Heard and interview w/ Jonathan Turley
this morning. It's not what was in the office that is the issue. The issue is the way the files were taken. The executive branch cannot just walk into the office of a legislator and confiscate stuff. It's all about the separation of powers issue. Hastert was fuming on this and Gonzalez and others threatened to resign if they didn't get their way. Turley believes that we are in the middle of a constitutional crisis because this administration is expanding the role of the executive branch beyond anything we've ever seen. BushCo is essentially saying f*ck you to checks and balances.

Who knows what was in the files. Jefferson has been under investigation for months. It's not like they didn't have anything on him in the first place. He had 90 grand hidden in his damn freezer.

Mz Pip
:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. sounds like there's something more?
there must be something ELSE in those files.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Nope, what it means is when the democrats gain back control of one or both
houses it will mean they can use the FBI to search repukes offices. Imagine that can of worms being opened, corrupt pukes will no longer be able to use seperation of powers to hide wrong doings. Remember so far thats whats kept things pukes have done in the dark. Remember it took a act of congress for the courts to get Nixons records and tapes. If they allow this action by the FBI to stand then they are no longer safe either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. yes I hear you but...
their search backfired as the info (that Jefferson had in his office) must have had links to 'things uncomfortable' for the Repubs (and maybe some republican-friendly Democrats?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Never underestimate a politician's demand for power.
*, and before him Clinton, and before him Bush I, and before him Reagan ... have all, to one extent or another, been concerned about making sure the president had the authority and power than each deemed appropriate. Some ceded power in some areas while going to the mat in others. The result was that since FDR's day the Congress gained in importance. The term of art in the press for a while was 'imperial presidency'. There is no perfect balance of powers; there are merely compromises, all within the limits of what is considered, at least at the time, Constitutional. FDR, IMHO, exceeded what he should have done; others may disagree, and that's fine.

* is fighting hard to reclaim the imperial presidency, or at least some akin to it; he and his folk believe that the optimum balance has more authority given to the presidency, and less to Congress. For this reason they fought like cats and dogs over *Clinton's* files, when Clinton had no beef about it. Everybody thought that * was quasi-insane; but it's consistent with what him and his Constitution-gurus have said straight along. Hastert and Congress like the balance, more or less, but would, of course, like it to swing more in their direction. Pretty much every time * (or before him, Clinton) assert executive privilege, Congress, whether dem or repub, has pitched a fit. The Executive has little control over congress; congressional limitations have come at the expansion of the judiciary's power.

However, SCOTUS is concerned about their own power with this Congress; on the one hand, they're afraid that Congress will remove things from their jurisdiction--this would probably directly set Marbury, which is where SCOTUS asserted that they have judicial review authority, against a clause of the Constitution that, to my limited knowledge, has never been applied. SCOTUS is also pissed at the very idea of having a Congressional or executive oversight committee, something that must be completely unconstitutional--you know, like the Congressional 'intelligence oversight' committee? (Which brings us back to the 'unitary' idea--SCOTUS can't be governed by Congress, and the executive branch can't be excessively interfered with by either).

Now, the judiciary will also be pissed at Congress in the Jefferson matter; the judicial branch issued a subpoena, it seems, for certain (kinds of?) documents--and Congress rejected the subpoena. So the FBI's request for documents relating to a corruption investigation, and the court's subpoena, were both denied: Now the warrant issued based on probable cause is challenged. Keep in mind that in Abscam and other investigations Congressfolk alleged that separation of powers protected them, both from corruption charges, and from having documents subpoenaed; there is Constitutional protection, just not as they argue. If their argument holds, other, probably more severe problems, result. Keep in mind that all sorts of people have subpoenaed executive and legislative e-mails in the Plame and Delay cases. Judicial, Executive, and Congressional privilege don't include hiding felonies; it may all hinge on why Congress rejected the authority of the subpoena they received for Jefferson's documents, and the grounds for the warrant.

*'s seal will, no doubt, be left in place until everybody's looked over exactly what it is the law enforcement types did in searching Jefferson's office. Looking over documents relating to legislating is a big no-no. In Gonzalez's folk kept their noses clean and only looked at non-legislation-related documents (with Congress charging that the phone bills and the receipt for his chicken salad sandwich that day both count as 'legislation-related'), it'll be fine. The documents will be unsealed. Perhaps a judge will be asked to review them, to make sure they're ok.

Perhaps the issue is the actual search, not turning over documents (but that doesn't quite ring true, there must be more to it). But while it's a bad precedent to have a Congressman's office searched, it's also a bad precedent to assert, if this is indeed the case, that keeping evidence of felony-level corruption in your office amounts to a cloak of invisibility. In that case Jefferson's problem wasn't the alleged $90k in his freezer; it was that it was in his home freezer, instead of the fridge in his office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I think this is HUGE!
I think Bush will try to keep this sealed even with his bare hands if the legal aspect is withdrawn?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I hate to say it, but Fatboy the Rubberstamp Hastert is just NOW figuring
this shit out??? He might want to try harder being MISTER SPEAKER instead of MISTER EATER, eating everything in sight, including the Monkey's shit!

Too late, Denny--if the nation falls, it's on YOUR portly shoulders, and the rest of your enabling crew.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. and people llike Hastert were worried that the same technique would be
used against them someday.
It is sad that until it really hit them in the gut, the taking away of the Congressional powers did not bother any of them.

Separation of powers was just some theoretical concept up until this, I guess.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. We have a winner
The Repugs won't be in control of the executive branch forever. I'm sure none of them want an executive branch under Hillary or Kerry or any other unnamed Dem raiding their offices.

Mz Pip
:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. 90 Grand in marked bills that they
entrapped him with almost a year ago. He is a slime ball (stupid one at that) and we need him out of our party NOW!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't believe it for a second..
Consigliere Alberto ready to resign because The Don and Fredo won't let him do something?

Rove's slimy fingers are all over this one. Bush makes them give it back, precedent will be set and dozens of dirty repubs will be safe in their lairs..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well I find it curious that the news report about Hastert being
under investigation came on the heels of this raid on Jefferson's office. Could be push back for Hastert throwing a shit fit, or could be they got a hold of something incriminating about Hastert. I always thought Hastert was protected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. from the Huffy Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/05/25/bush-orders-sealing-of-do_n_21622.html

Look even deeper. Something else is going on here.

Remember that all the Abramoffgate investigations are about to explode, and -all- of those targets will be Republican lawmakers. Watch for similar raids there. That will look very very bad for their side when it happens. By popping a Dem first, they've both diffused the Repub focus, and given all the Repub suspects-to-be in Congress a heads-up that their offices are (contrary to all previous Consitutional interpretations) fair game, i.e. no longer a safe place to keep incriminating documents. Wanna bet how many shredding parties got started bright 'n' early Sunday morning?

Worse yet: Any unshredded, damaging papers stupidly still kept in Congressional offices in the Repub raids to come will -also- be sealed, and for at least 45 days after the search date(s). Wanna bet it'll all be timed so the seals expire just -after- the elections?


There must be something in Jefferson's files that has the Republicans running scared, and Bushitler is trying to provide them cover.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. I totally object to the raid by the FBI
I have no doubt that all sorts of twisted subplots are going on, but Gonzo busting down Congressional doors to look for documents is BULLSHIT.

If this precedent is allowed to stand, then every time the executive branch disapproves of what a Congressman is doing, the FBI will show up with a warrant to search his/her office. Opponents can be laid to waste, and maverick members of the same party can be kicked into line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. It is outrageous but
this is what happens to the general public who are criminals. They get a visit from the FBI at 3am. NO surprise.

It is a whole lot more than 'the exec branch disapproving of what a Congressman is doing' It's what the Congressman had in his possession?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. What do you want to bet it names names and dates of..................
.....a lot of stuff that has gone on?? I think that's what all the info and hoopla is about - the neocons/fundies would take a huge fall.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You got it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great thread !
I've been bugged this question all day ... there's just something more to it for the AG and FBI throwing tantrums!?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. My neighbor told me
that Halliburton/Cheney dealings were linked to this? I wish people would wake up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
22. Precedent
Congressional offices have been off-limits. A lot of the GOP guys in Congress will still be in office after 2008, and they don't want to risk giving a Democratic Administration the precedent to unearth all of their skeletons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. seems like a large skeleton is being unearthed now too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. my guess is the money
and the documents deal with certain middle eastern countries and the upcoming attack on Iran.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC