Do parents have a moral obligation to pay for children's college?

My pop got sick when I was in high school so my folks never had the means to pay for college (heck, I even had to pay my HS tuition). Luckily, scholarships, financial aid and jobs provided for my education.

Anyway even before my Dad got sick my folks were not paying for my sisters' college. That was the deal with about half of my friends even if their folks had the means to help with college.

Do parents have a moral obligation to pay for college? Should parents spend their retirement money to send kids to college? What if your kid wants to go to a fancy private school? Would you tell them to shove it or pay for it themselves?

On the other hand, they have no right to insist that the kid goes to college or to object to the manner in which the kid pays for college.

I think it is a moral obligation to give them as good of a start as possible in life.

that they just aren't very academically inclined. That doesn't necessarily translate into "dim" -- in fact, many times, the person isn't "dim" at all. It's just that they prefer to learn something "hands on". I'm a vocational rehab counselor, working with folks injured on the job. Sometimes they have to be trained for a new job, and while most of them, even those who aren't really smart, do get through a formal training program at a school. But I've had some that just aren't going to make it in a college/tech school setting for whatever reason. So we have to work to find some on-the-job training for them, and they end up doing well also.

I'm a huge proponent of formal education, of going to college, because it is much more important these days. Again, however, there are just some folks that just don't fit, so different ways to learn new things have to be identified.

If a kid wants to go, can get in and his parents can afford to help, I think they should.

There is a college out there for everyone who wants to go to college.

I teach at college and I know they aren't.

It might not be a degree in physics, but if the drive is there, the degree is attainable.

For that very reason, there are now many colleges that cater specifically to the learning disabled and those with low IQs. My friend's daughter is in one right now and doing very well.

That is part of the problem. Many students go away to college and flunk out after year of partying. They then go into minimum wage jobs having to pay off student loans. These people may just not have been grown-up enough to handle the freedom that comes with college.

I think parents should help pay.

in state tuition or to qualify for scholarships.....in select locales that is

...it is fairly common for the parents be ordered to pay for college for their kids. This has been challenged based on the idea that kids of divorced families are provided opportunities that would not be afforded to kids who were not from divorced families.

to the immediate needs of the family, imo.

But if money is not a great obstacle, and especially if parents have driven their children hard to excel and perform at the top of their abilities in school, then a college education is the realization of those values.

There are self-educated people all over the place, doing all kinds of things, but to the specifics of your question, I believe parents should make the effort when economically possible to propel their kids into any opportunity that will broaden them as citizens.

Eric Hoffer is a self-educated man, and you could put Lincoln in that category. They did beautifully. But not everybody is an Eric Hoffer or an Abraham Lincoln.

It's very difficult to make ends meet without some sort of post-secondary education. Perhaps parents could pay for community college and the kid could transfer to a university after that. Perhaps, the kid could go to a state university and commute. There are other options besides $30,000 a year private colleges. My parents were both educated professionals, but due to my mother's own mental illness, I received very little help along the way. My father did what he could, but mostly I took care of things. It's not easy, but it can be done.

They don't give loans to students whose parents simply refuse, unless the student meets the requirements for being financially independent for a set period of time.

But aside from that, I feel that parents with the means are morally obligated to help their children go to college or trade school.

That makes absolutely no sense. Unless a kid is some kind of mental prodigy and goes to college at the ripe old age of 12, most people go to college at or after the age of 18. That's the age of majority. Why would it be any of the government's business what the parent's financial situation is? Is that not the government placing a "moral obligation" upon the parents? When I first went to college (took me a couple of attempts, years apart, to complete it), I was just out of high school, and living with my parents. I got financial aid on my own. My parents didn't have to show or prove anything.

Well, that was awhile ago, so maybe things have changed, but it sure doesn't make sense to me.

That is how expensive schools can recruit poor, but excellent students. They expect rich parents to pay full tuition. They expect poor students to get full government loans and grants and then give them scholarships from their endowment, leaving them to only pay a couple thousand themselves. If that weren't true, only students whose parents were rich and willing to pay would be able to attend $30,000/year schools.

college. I got financial aide, and was living with my parents, but the only income -- or lack thereof -- I had to provide info on was my own.

college when everyone else did because her financially able father refused on principle to fill out the financial aid forms.

And it's worse if you remarry, and the new spouse has an income. Even if you've only been married a week, your new spouse's income gets counted into the equation.

provide the info. Thanks for the info. I was actually just thinking I should ask my mom next time I talk to her if she remembers that. (I'd blame my faulty memory on the 33 years that have passed since then, but that'd be too easy!)

Anyway, my husband, who also graduated in the mid-70's, had a couple friends with the same problem as my friend.

The reason this makes sense to me is that there is a limited pool of financial aid funds. Why should the kids of rich parents qualify, simply on the basis of their parents' refusal, when this means less money is available for the families that really need it?

my mom if she remembers if she and dad had to provide that information.

It does make sense, if it helps stop people who don't need loans and grants from getting money, and those who really need it don't get it.

that the forms are now. So it could slip her mind, too.

Sometimes I think the government makes forms more complex than they have to be, to justify their existence.

that runs so rampant, regardless of the party in control.

But that was because they were planning to pay in full for my education as well as my three brothers. They were big believers in higher education and had the means to help.

The government loans you mention really are loans, so these kids graduate from college having to pay off loans for at least ten years. Happens at public schools, too, which are increasingly losing any meaningful level of state support.

When you're 22 years old and $40,000 in debt, you're not going to do things like teach, or do social work, or work for a non-profit. You do whatever pays the bills, to the detriment of society.

to take the least amount in loans -- sometimes no loans at all. It's the much larger "middle income group" going to mid-tier schools that have more trouble paying for college.

I have friends making about $75K a year (combined) in a high cost state with a high state income tax (NY). The state schools cost about $14K for state residents, and are too far away for the student to live at home. The parents, on their two incomes, are expected by federal/state standards to pay $11,000 per year. The balance is paid by a student loan, which the govt. has limited to about $3,000.

Now they have a second child coming up. College for families like this is a very difficult proposition.

It changed because so many kids from well heeled families played the "financially independent" gambit to qualify for aid. It really stinks because if your parents are able and unwilling to pay, you're out of luck unless you take a break, move out, and create a solid paper trail of independence.

On the other hand, I had little sympathy for my coworker who was complaining that the financial aid forms required reporting of her second husband's income and assets on his stepchildren's financial aid forms. After all, he wasn't her father. The real issue was that stepdad was a millionaire several times over from inheritance and he was earning about 300K so the kids wouldn't qualify for anything.

middle and lower income classes. I would have little sympathy for your co-worker either. I guess you and I have a different take on things than the co-worker does.

make less than the national household income. So it really hurts.

(and most students are so that they can stay on their parents health insurance plans) then the parents do have to offer their filed tax returns and fess up to any kind of property worth value.

And many schools don't want their students to claim as independent unless they have children, are married or have served in the military (or are over the age of 23).

you are 24

you are married

you have dependents you are economically responsible for

you are a veteran, released from active duty, honorably

or

you are a graduate/professional student.

that's it.

yet medical (professional) students are usually required to submit parental information if they are applying for need based scholarships and financial aid.

the reason is because the budgets are so big (50,000+ per year) that IF the family is ABLE to assist, it is expected. choosing not to assist is irrelevant.

if the family is, based on the numbers, NOT able to assist, the student will receive a decent financial aid package.

that is fair.

at a private college. He said that there are a couple of ways around it but they are few and far between. He said that under 23 they almost never try.

a need-based scholarship.

That said, some kids get scholarships without need, based purely on academics or sports or whatever criteria the school establishes. I know, one of my relatives got one. It helps if you are going to a school where there aren't very many of "your kind." They like the diversity thing...

Same thing for schools. Take government money and they are obligated to let military recruiters on campus. The freedom of choice is lost.

Not that government is bad. But often enough there is a cost. The trick is to have an overall benefit greater than the cost.

:)

But always had to submit my parents forms. They said they only way to get out of having to do it was to legally divorce my parents.

That is what happened to me, and my sister as well. You have to be financially independent for several years before you can get loans in your own name, if your parents don't help.

It is not looking too likely that we'll be able to afford to pay for college for our kids, though things could change. But we will help in whatever ways that we can, including helping them get loans. Waiting until I was in my late 20s and had a husband and family to go back to college is certainly not the ideal way to do things, so I want my kids to have more options. I'm also already talking to them about the importance of working hard so they can get scholarships, and they're still in elementary school.

Furthermore, in addition to financial support when possible, I think all parents should give their kids emotional support and encouragement to go to college, rather than acting as though college is completely unnecessary.

...but it is a supportive and helpful thing parents can do for their kids. Moral? No. Mandatory? No.

The parents have no moral obligation to pay for anything once the kid becomes an adult.

We would certainly all agree that the parents have no right to tell their adult children how to live or who to date, etc.

I think it's a pretty hypocritical point of view to say "I'm an adult and you have no right to tell me what to do, and oh by the way, please pay my bills for me."

On the other hand, I am saving money every month for my kid's college fund (529 Plan), but if he turns out rotten, or is living contrary to the values of my wife and I, we reserve the right to take a really cool cruise instead of giving the money to him.

if a parent choses not to ultimately it is the young adults choice and committment that will get them through. added charchter and job well done. as a child i would not feel owed and wouldnt be wrapped up in if parent loved me.

i dont feel the need to pay for a high end university. i can give the money saved for college, and if kid wanted more, i could easily see me saying pay for it. that is with all money i fork out, clothes, toys, later in life .... cars. i dont feel i "owe" kids and any parent that feels that, i feel, are probably doing damage

If they can afford it. One of the reasons we don't plan on having a third child is I would like to pay for college for the two I have already AND be able to retire someday.

As far as an expensive school, that would depend on how much money we have and how seriously the child is taking the opportunity.

unless it was from the post-WWII group of parents who, like parents before them, wanted their children to have some advantages including college. But a moral obligation? No way. My parents didn't pay for my college, nor did I expect them too. Now, if parents can afford it, and they choose to pay tuition, that's cool. But I have known parents who have nearly put themselves in the poorhouse paying for their kids to go to college. I see nothing moral about that.

And as I said, if the parents can afford it and WANT to pay, that's fine -- unless it means the kids are being pressured to go, just so the parents can look good. I knew kids in college where that was the case, and in the end, it ends up being a waste of time, and a waste of the parents' money. The kid should WANT to go to college, not feel they have to go just because it's important to their parents.

my father died when we were children and she had been a stay at home mother with no education beyond high school. We lived off social security, her frugality and eventually her securing a job as a receptionist.

She wanted better for us, especially me since i was a girl and she didn't want me to be in her position. She told me when I graduated from high school that she wanted me to get an education and a profession because she didn't want me dependent upon any man for my keep nor did she want me working low paying jobs like she had...

She worked and worked and we both got our degrees, mine is in engineering.

Today she is retired, and I have helped her out immensely. I have a good job with good pay and I have helped fix her home, take her on trips ...etc. I will make sure that she never goes without and in fact I want her to move in with my family because I don't want her to be alone.

in an account so I could have money for college. I think kids should work to pay at least some of their tuition. If they get it for free, they are less likely to apreciate it IMO.

I plan to help as much as I can

but I'm also hoping my son is able to get some kind of scholarship

and he will probably have to work some during college unless he does get a scholarship

I think there are a lot of kids in college that shouldn't be there! Somebody told them they had to go to be able to comfortably survive and they're going, but they don't want to be there. The result is graduates like "W" and Paris Hilton!

I think parents should help with a college education if they can, but at least half should b ehte responsibility of the student.

If a student's family is truly poor, the student will usually qualify for grants and subsidized loans. If the family is richer, they qualify for less than none. It is my opinion, that it is wrong for a parent, whose income and assetts make it impossible for their child to qualify for aid, not to pay at least part of college tuition.
I have a coworker whose daughter is just trying to get through state college without any help. They have refused to help while they watch and complain about her dropping out twice due to illness caused by her going to school full time and working 60 hours/week, sell everything that she owns inclduing things of great sentimental value, and now her decision to marry someone who will help her out. I don't know how they can stand to let their daughter suffer like that.

I think that irrespective of whether parents can or not, the government should be paying for the university education of those who want to get into a university and can find one that's willing to accept them, in the same way it pays for school education. This should be funded either from general taxation or from a tax specifically on uinversity graduates.

The limiting factor in getting a university place should be academic ability, not ability to pay.

I think we have a moral obligation to educate our children. We owe that obligation not as much to our kids, but to society at large. I think we'd all be better off if all kids got a liberal college education so I'm sort of an education nazi (which is why I think it is immoral to send kids to a private school before college and why I don't think you should have more than 2 kids...we all have an obligation to "the group".)

My parents sent my older sister to Hawaii to college where she promptly flunked out so the rule after that was my parents would pay tuition and books and we could live at home and go to the local University (which is pretty good, not top rank, but good) or we could go to any out of state school we could get into if that school was "better" than the local university and they would pay for that too.

As long as you keep the deal you set up with your kids, your moral obligations are met. For example, my parents expected me to go to college because they recognized my intelligence and the pleasure I got from learning. They also expected me to make the burden as light on them as possible. That seemed a fair setup to me.

when a child has been raised to expect a college education, a parent with means can't break the promise simply because s/he decided to divorce the other parent.

but that path doesn't always mean college. I think that's a very elitist attitude. My brother worked his way up to a very good position in a chemical plant. My sister climbed the ladder at Hilton. I went to college. None of our paths are less valuable. They had no interest in collge. Many people pursue crafts and trades. Where would we be without them? To say that paying for college is a moral obligation is to insult the livelihoods of people who pursue other goals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1303647&mesg_id=1303726

Not everyone is college material, and they shouldn't be forced to go just because it might be important to the parents.

Whenever I refer to college I am usually referring to any kind of post-education, whether it be OTJ, Ivy League or your local Ju-Co. Depending on the field you choose, it can mean any number of things.

Maybe we need to change this to post-secondary education in general, since that does include OTJ training.

Include OJT's in "post-secondary education." By NOT doing that, I think it diminishes the value of OJT's, AND it can diminish the value of the person who chooses on-the-job training over college, in their own eyes and in the eyes of others. I personally don't see OJT's as any less valuable than formal training, but I think that ight not be the case overall.

I've also had OTJT in other areas, outside of what I have studied.

OTJT was much harder than any class that I attended. It's value should not be diminished.

I've had a number of clients who have trained on the job as opposed to in formal college classes, and they worked their behinds off -- quite successfully.

And even if one does go to college, in many fields, one is still required to do an internship, either paid or unpaid, before one can get a certificate or license (if required in the field). In both my present and previous occupation, I had to have not only a 4-year degree, but also two-year internships. And regardless of how good one's formal education may be, many times, you don't REALLY start learning the job until the rubber hits the road.

I totally agree that parents should support their kids in whatever path the child wants to choose, whether it means college or not. I do not believe in any sort of elitist hierarchy based on the type of work or the education required for the job.

At the same time, though, the days when you can get hired in at a company without a college degree and work your way up the corporate ladder are all but over. My husband has been laid off four times during our 12 year marriage, all from different companies, and obviously therefore I've been watching the trends in hiring practices. Jobs that didn't require a college degree 10 years ago *do* require degrees now, even though obviously the work itself doesn't merit the degree any more now than it did 10 years ago. But college is increasingly becoming a way to weed people out in the hiring process. I want my kids to know that. And my parents were pretty lukewarm about whether I should go to college or not, in part because they remembered the way things were when they were younger and you could get hired anywhere without a degree and work your way up. There's no such thing as a secure job anymore, and I believe that any young person entering the job market either needs a college education or a marketable skill. My husband has neither and he's unemployed, and I tell you, when you don't have a college degree or know a trade, you're really at a disadvantage in the job market.

In fact, in the age of outsourcing, work you do with your hands onsite may be more stable. I came form a blue collar background, and it just ticks me off when physical work gets dismissed as an option. Some people enjoy it. Some people do it out of necessity. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, mechanics, etc, are all GOOD LIVINGS and shouldn't be forgotten as options.

My husband was unemployed a few months ago and seriously looked into one of the skilled trades. Unfortunately in order to take classes in it he had to be employed in the field, or get a job as an apprentice (which pays $7 an hour around here). If he were a young person just starting out, the apprenticeship would be a good route. But for us, a family with young children, we can't afford to take that kind of income loss, even for a few years.

I do have some worries about the skilled trades as well, just because so many of them are employed in the construction sector right now. I'm worried that there could be a glut of electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc. once the building boom slows down (which it already appears to be doing).

Of course just about no job in any field is stable, though, so I get your point. I wasn't intending to imply that skilled trades *aren't* as good of an option as college. It's honorable work that is difficult to outsource. My point was and is that young people need to *either* have college education or know a skilled trade if they have any hope of being competitive in the job market.

to work to contribute too - Yes.

Rush said so!

Really, where did you get this divisive idea to pit parents against children, anyway? The fact that in the USA, both health care and education are considered to be privileges for the affluent and wealthy is disgusting.

I don't intend to mock you personally ... I just find this kind of argument to be inane in itself, and the media keep feeding it back into the information feed, over and over. It keeps people from taking effective political action and promotes a diseased and warped ideology of "personal responsibility" designed to get the powerful off the hook and keep those of modest means toiling for low pay and no perks until death ends their term of "personal responsibility".

It's time we got fed up with this mind-fuck en masse and grabbed our pitchforks.

--p!

not making the best of a paid education (poor grades), I explained that we look at this as an investment & are about to cut our losses. Long story, short - He got it & has direction.

It's getting very difficult for young people to get a start in life, & with the huge deficit, it's probably going to get worse.

When I finally entered a 4-year college (after a failed attempt at a 2-year college just after high school), I was 27. Not exactly the "wise woman of the world," but the gap between 18 and 27 can be pretty big, and I saw some real differences between the younger and older students. So many of the young kids I went to college with were there only because it's what their parents wanted, not what they really wanted (and that's why my first attempt failed -- I went because it was important to my dad, not to me).

To see it as an investment in the family (and in the individual student) is a good way to look at it, as i think it helps bring a different perspective to everyone's idea of what getting post-high school education is all about. If the kid says, "You know, ma and pa, I know it's important to you that I go to college, but I'd like to take a year or so off school first," then there will be less change that the investment would be for naught.

I was 35 years old when I graduated from college, and Lord, it wasn't easy. I was raising children, working, and going to school. Hey, I did it. I always figured I was going to be 35 anyway, I might as well be 35 with a degree.

Good for you that you found your way back to school - I like you prospective about taking a year off. Sometimes that is very important to do also.

Just about to graduate with my engineering degree from one of the best engineering schools in the nation.

I spent my last 3 years learning & encouraging other ReEntry (older) students to continue their education as a volunteer.

Anyone...PM me if I can offer any help!!!

They should if they can, but they don't need to by any means.

If they pay, they have a say in where the kid goes. Perhaps they'll just say, "I'll pay whatever Podunk State U's tuition/fees/expenses are, and not a cent more." Then the kid can decide if s/he wants to take on the necessary debt load to go to college to major in something that's unlikely to provide a marketable skill, or perhaps do something he might not like as much but might provide a job.

And, if s/he realizes that s/he'll be in heavy debt, and nobody's clamoring that the kid's a genius, perhaps the state school's good enough, anyway.

In many cases, proof of emancipation helps. If you're a dependent, financial aid is a bit harder to come by. But it doesn't always help. I applied to Harvard at age 30+ for grad school, and they still wanted my parents' tax documents, because the default assumption is that grad school applicants are 21 or 22.

(And one person said there's a college for everyone; that's partly true, but there aren't slots in college for everyone. Nor do I think college should be free to everybody; that just results in either trivialized degrees, or rationing with the first cutback in the budget, and the inevitable corruption that follows when politicians gets more power).

If they have money, then why not? but not morally obligated to do it.

but never to the detrement of their own welfare later in life. I feel that kids who want college and cannot afford it, despite working and scholarships should have a way to go anyway. It is to our country's benefit to have an educated citizenry. As it is now, there is no provision such as that. Grants and scholarships can only go so far -- equality of opportunity for education is a necessity if we are to avoid the eventuality of only the upper class being educated beyond high school. Believe me, it's coming.

All my kids had part-time jobs after the age of 16, and were required to put a certain percentage of every paycheck in the bank for school. Upon graduation they each got an equal amount for college. It was up to them how they used it and how far they wanted to make it go. Some got scholarships, some took out loans, some went to state schools, but I gave each a hand while requiring them to save as well. It was tough, but I did it. And, I'd do it again.

TC

wealth and all that.

In most of the developed world, higher education is free for those who are qualified. We desperately need that in this country, and it wouldn't be that expensive -- about $25 billion per year to pay everyone's tuition and fees. That's a lot less than we've blown on Iraq.

I suspect the massive debt held by college graduates is going to create a lot of problems down the road.

universal healthcare and education. Instead of being saddled with massive debt for the first decade after leaving college, young people could become homeowners instead. (of course, that assumes this wacky real estate market comes back under control.)

That being said, we plan on paying for our children's school.

I believe most parental responsibility ends when the child reaches 18. I have never even approached my mom for a single dime (except if she has my money) since I reached that age.

I also do not believe I have the right to inherit ANY money. When a person works, they earn their own money and it is theirs to do with what they want.

Perhaps my beliefs are the reason why it was so easy to write off my violent father. I am an only child and could have inherited everything. The amount of his estate would have moved my tax bracket up greatly. Very much so. When he tried to choke me I told him to get out of my house and never come back. I suppose he thought he was hurting me when he had his lawyer contact me to say I was totally written out of his will. I knew my mom was still in contact with him and suggested she tell him my cousin should be the lone beneficiary of his estate. My mom said he had already done that. That money was his, it was never mine and so it was no loss to me. What right did I have to it? Why would I want the money of someone so hateful?

Lots of people in my family are greedy and they fought over my Great Aunt's estate. This disturbed my Great Uncle to no end. He called the family vultures. I wrote to him and told him to spend every cent of his estate he could. I said how my Great Aunt had had such bad health she could not enjoy her money in the end. I suggested he go golf at St. Andrews or down in Florida (one of his favorite places to golf) I begged him not to keep his money for the family or for when he was too sick to use it. I did this knowing that mom said the bulk of estate would be left to her and me. I did not care because until he died it would not be my money and he should enjoy what he worked so hard for.

My husband has told his dad to spend every cent he has but to please leave us enough to bury him. My husband and I have the exact same philosophy.

So, for me, it is not a moral obligation and I would never expect it. For my children I will freely give it. I think it just depends on individuals and their circumstances. To each his own.

then I say it is government's responsibility to school these promising people...whomever they are & whatever their social background.

Thank goodness for the great state universities here in California...despite Ahhhhnolds attempts at budget cuts!!!

BTW, I'm graduating Cal Poly Pomona in engineering in 2 weeks (job in-hand)...oh yeah!!!

Are you planning to stay in California?

Yes, I'm from So Cal, I love it here, and there's a lot of work to be done on our infrastructure.

My daughter's in engineering grad school now, so I know what you've been going through. Kudos to you!

Kids are not entitled to have their college paid for by their parents. To think otherwise is ridiculous. The majority of parents cannot afford today's tuition costs, much less the cost of housing, which often is much more.

That said, I made a deal with my children. You make good grades in school, stay out of trouble and away from drugs, and I will pay for your college, as long as you go to classes and make decent grades.

I paid over $50,000 for a 4 yr degree for my eldest daughter (I have two). She graduated in four years from Texas A&M and complied with all the conditions. I can't tell you how proud I am of her!
She received a degree in psychology, but soon found her degree wasn't going to get her that much ahead. SHe wanted me to pay for her to get a paralegal degree (another year), which was really all about her staying near her college friends, and not about a continued education. I refused.
I told her I would help her out, but she would have to come home because she could get the same courses here, and the costs involved were much less. We had a falling out, and she alienated me.

I had told her I would pay if she wanted to take graduate study, but not for a program a high-school student could take.

She hung around her college friends for a year, and was working for a woman's shelter as a volunteer coordinator/fundraiser. She did a great job, but working for a non-profit does not pay much. She soon realized she needed to get serious about things and decided to go back and get an MBA.

I supported her decision, but told her she would have to work and pay her own way for it. She is doing that now. She has one more year to get her MBA, and she made the dean's list at her college!
I didn't want her growing up feeling she was entitled to everything and she needed to experience the hardships life throws our way.

When I die, she will have enough to take care of her for the rest of her life. Because she took the initiative to take her destiny in her own hands, I will reward her with that. But, she was NOT entitled to it. She earned it!

The younger daughter is 13. She is a completely different personality, and may or may not go to college. It's her choice. The deal is the same. She does not have to get a college degree to inherit the money, but she does have to show responsibility and respect for the law. I have made it quite clear that no one is entitled to anything. You earn it.

Sound harsh? I came from a dirt poor family. There had never been anyone in it with a four-year college degree, including myself. My hard work and fortune has given me a comfortable life. I retired at age 45, 6 yrs ago. A college degree gives a child a head start, but unless there is a will to succeed, it won't do much good. Everyone's situation is different, but no one is entitled!

at home then yes, I plan to pay as much as I can afford.

If she attends out of state I hope she qualifies for as much financial aid as possible. No way I can ever afford that.

Should a parent pay for college? If the student is really wanting to go to school for the value of an education or for the chance at training that will benefit them in life then yes, as long as they can afford it. IMO, that means the parents can also put stipulations on the financial aid that they give the student. If grades fall below a certain level then they can withhold the money.

My father didn't want me to go further than high school. It was an ego thing. I was supposed to have been a lesser clone of himself - a mini-me. Fortunately, my grandmother planted a maxim within me as an antidote to my father - "You can never learn enough." On his death bed, he was ranting against college education.

ten times as much now as when I went there in the 70's.

the rate of inflation for the last 30 years.

I know professors aren't making that muh, so where is the money going?

They have pretty much priced regular people out of the market.

afraid I've forgotten it.

The bit that I think I remember: Number one, professors aren't paid all that much, but salaries are still a high percent of the costs. And professors can't be replaced by robots, and their jobs can't be sent off to India, and you can only increase class sizes so much, and you can only cut so many small classes -- so it is hard to improve efficiency much where salaries are concerned (as opposed to designing more efficient machines and production processes, which holds down inflation in other parts of the economy.)

Another big cost is energy -- just fueling all the buildings. And that keeps going up and up.

within reason.

This means (in my book) that you invest in some kind of a fund with which to help out each child once that child reaches the point of high school graduation. You make the child well aware beforehand that receiving the money is conditional on getting the high school diploma. The money is then to be used by them for what they want to do next--college, trade school, etc. But once it's gone, it's gone. So they have to think about how best to spend what's in there.

This way, they can't say they had no options and no opportunity. The money is there for college if they want it. Depending on how much it is, it may not be enough to pay all the bills. In that case, they need to determine whether they can get enough aid to afford to go where they'd like to go. Same thing with a trade school or whatever.

If they want to travel, or buy a motorcycle, or whatever, fine--but once the money's gone, it's gone. And they have to figure out from there on in how they are going to make more.

Kids that are bright and want to go to college should not be denied the opportunity to go by parents who have the money but refuse to pay and whose kids will then not qualify for aid because the parents have too much money. That's not right. But do the kids need to go to the most expensive school possible, or one where they can't get aid? No.

(please take it with a grain of salt)

1) Do your “general studies" at a community/city college. As long as your college is accredited they will transfer to your next school (just make sure all your classes are transferable). Please…pay for these 2+ years on your own…you’ll need the financial aid for your undergrad studies (trust me!!!).

2) Once you have most of your general studies under your belt & have decided on a major, start applying to state universities. Why state??? Because if you find a strong state major, often they offer a better undergrad program than some of the “big-name” universities…and for better bang-for the $$$. For example, I chose to do my undergrad engineering studies at Cal Poly Pomona because it had a VERY strong rating in engineering & was still affordable with financial aid & loans (as are all Cal State Universities). This is the big-chunk of your university career & you should select the school with care, because it will set the stage for the students’ academic/real career. Oh yeah, this is where you want to get all of the financial aid, loans, and everything else the gov't will do to help...trust me, this is the "big-chunk" to the folks!!!

3) Once you have come near your undergrad studies, you probably know where you want to go with your future. You may already have a job/internship & you may decide to work for a couple of years, or to go on to grad school. This is where you should to decide to spend your money…on the 2 years of grad-school, not on the other stuff. Believe me, it will cost you enough…yikes!!! This is where you choose a Berkley, or a Stanford…to get the name.

students in popular majors. In our state, for example, the number of computer science majors is limited far below the number who apply. Depending on your interests, it could makemore sense to attend a private university where you know you can major in your choice of fields, than a public where you end up being cut out of your top choices.

by applying to a "related" major that has many of the same classes. Then once the student is "in the school" they can transfer into the major. For example, a student can come in as a mechanical engineering (non-impacted) major & switch to a architecture major (impacted) major later in the game. It is done all the time...hope it helps.

note: "impacted" means that the major is limited by # of students whom wish to apply.

of majors in a school.

This happened to a friend of mine's son at the local university. He had wanted to major in the business school, but he didn't get in, so he majored in history.

(I'd prefer history, myself, but I'm not his parent!) Anyway, the better choice for him might have been a private university.

program - if you maintain a 3.5 GPA or above you will get 40% off tuition at most of our state universities. If you take the 2 year Liberal Studies program and take 2 extra science classes (as your electives) - you get an automatic transfer of all your classes and enter the 4 year state school as a Junior.

I wish my daughter would consider this option because of financial reasons and because even though she wants to go to college, she doesn't really like school and I'm concerned about the level of effort she will put into her studies. I am 2 classes away from my AS at this school and I KNOW that the school is "easier" than other schools and I think it would the right path for her, scholastically at least.

Unfortunately there is a stigma attached to the school because that is where the "dummies" go. And I do understand her desire to live at school which she couldn't do at the Community College.

We still have 1.5 years to go so we'll see what happens.

If she's able to "get her feet wet" in a community college, she will be able to cultivate her academic arsenal in a safe place. Some call the community/city colleges "schools for dummies"...I call this BULLSHIT, they teach the same damn hard-assed calculus classes as the univerities, trust me!!! These schools are under-funded by right-wingers prescisely because they educate the lower/middle classes & challenge the status-quo by lifting our children up to their level...and beyond!!!

...sorry got a little sidetracked with my passion. Your daughter will do herself a great service if she feels her way around a community college for the first couple of years. As a soon-to-be graduate, I can attest to the value of the community college. They give a new student the confidence and tools necessary to ulimately complete their degree-of-choice. I have nothing but good things to say about these great American institutions!!!

Poor parents aren't able to fund their kids educations the same way wealthy parents can.

tuition (if that's what they'd really like to be able to do), there are other ways to help. My parents couldn't afford to pay for any of my college tuition, (I got financial aid), but what they did do was let me continue to live at home, not charge me any room and board, and I got a part-time job to pay for incidentals and such. They felt good that they were able to support me in that way, and I appreciated it very much. My parents never had much money (and what the did have went to support 5 kids), so I never expected them to pay my way through school. But they did pay, in a way, but continuing to provide "three hots and a cot" for the duration.

pay for their educations? My middle-class teacher parents paid for their three children's college educations. We were expected to work and pay for our expenses. They paid for our tuition and books.
And my husband and I saved for our two children's college educations.
To me, it's a no brainer. You want children. You have children. You pay for their education.
Of course, the best laid plans can come apart. You and your spouse may agree that you can afford to raise three children. Educate those three children. And then unforeseen circumstances, like injury or death, prevent you from meeting your financial obligations as parents.

for college, a cell phone, a used (or new) vehicle, an ipod, and a laptop.

and with eight kids I couldn't blame them. It was student loans and part time jobs for us.

Six kids in our family.

If the parent's have the resources, YES.

IF they don't, NO.

But if you can, I think it's nice. I am not against the child also working through college to help supplement the expense.

of my parents financial status. After having my mother try to run my life in exchange for tuition, I took a break from school. I worked for 18 months as a teller to get off their taxes. I'm still paying Sallie Mae, 13 yrs later.

As for my kids? I hope that they'll qualify for scholarships. There is a program here (Kansas City) that will pay full tuition for students in the KCMO and KCK urban districts...anywhere they can get in....even Harvard. Students in the program have mentors, public service commitments, must attend public school, can't be expelled or have a baby while in high school. The catch? You must qualify for free lunch. We don't.

I understand the reason for targeting students from impoverished backgrounds. I know that my kids are receiving the benefits of having educated parents...a safe home...regular meals and health care. It just gets under my skin that an extra 6k/year may keep my brilliant daughter from having access to all the options. We'll NEVER be able to afford an Ivy...hell, we can't afford private school now in a district where anyone who has a little money sends their progeny to private schools.

Sorry for the self pity.

Your brilliant daughter will probably have access to financial aid to go to the school of her choice. The Ivy league schools have good endowments so they are usually generous on financial aid for poor students. Be sure when she considers college, to really look at the financial aid section of their literature and ask questions about it.

I was in a similar situation, that my parents made less than 10K above the cutoff for Pell grants, and didn't get any assistance.

This is not directed at you specifically, but I'm also totally baffled when people talk about scholarships. I'm in college now, have a 3.8 GPA, have kids, am low-income, returning/non-traditional student, etc. - I should qualify for a whole bunch of scholarships. I've applied for several and haven't gotten any. I don't think it's that I've done anything wrong, either...I think there are just a *lot* of us in the same position and competition is steep.

One is disabled and autistic and hasn't the capacity.

The other is totally anti-education (despite a Mensa IQ) and couldn't be bothered.

Sometimes I think God has a weird sense of family construction: total mismatch between generations. Other times, I blame the culture. But actually, it's their father's fault. Bad genes.

she enjoys, maybe music, P.E., writing. She might find that whatever is making her anti-education is not really an issue. And if this is successful, keep pushing gently toward an educational direction.

I know a couple of families that have a child with Autism and a child/children that are brilliant. What makes these children so exceptional is their ability to focus so intently that they develop deep and comprehensive understandings of whatever subject matter that they find intriguing. This ability and desire to focus often is at the expense of learning how to develop social relationships. This is a handicap for many brilliant people. Perhaps your daughter is not anti-education, but nervous about interacting with others.

Another thing about brilliant people with possible autistic characteristics. They sometimes look at challenges, be it school or a game, as a situation where you win or lose. They see the purpose of the engagement to win, and if that purpose is not accomplished they have failed. They sometimes look at things as black and white.

I hope I was not out of place with my suggestions.

My parents divorced when I was seven. My dad paid a great deal of child support per the divorce decree which was expressly for my college tuition. All through my childhood, my mom kept suing my dad to increase the amount of support, again, for material support and college tuition. When I was a kid, my mom denied me everything I asked for, no matter how trivial, using my tuition as a reason. Well, it came time to go to college and guess what? Little, if any, assistance from my mom. Needless to say, I don't kill myself going to see her for holidays, Mother's Day, etc.

doing community service, joining clubs, etc.--all activities that make them eligible for scholarships and grants which they should take as their responsibility to apply for. Next, they should work and save their money to help contribute to their college. They should also be informed and politically active so that when a Republican Congress makes college more difficult for the middle and lower classes by limiting Pell assistance young people should rise up and have their voices heard.

Then, if these young people are truly blessed, they will have parents who can afford to help them with college. However, I see so many students who believe a free college education from their parents is their birth right while they refuse to have summer jobs in high school and instead get poor grades while demanding expensive trips, clothes, and electronic gear.

The one exception to this would be children of divorced parents. If the parents are able to afford college for the child, then a fund should be established and handled by a third party such as a bank for the child's college education. However, it is still the child's obligation to work hard at getting good grades and being involved in activities and working at least during the summer to save money for college.

Are the parents able?

Will the kid sit on his/her ass and drink beer the whole time or actually study?

I think if the parents can afford it, they should if the kids will take advantage of that. If they can't afford it but can afford to pay part, then that's great too. But when we have kids I think we have an obligation to help them to the degree that we're able to until they become self-supporting, which really doesn't happen at 18 usually.

kids who are college material secure funds to make a college education possible.

Screw-off kids who just want to go to college to party and be away from home have no moral claim on financing from parents.

Kids who are serious students and approach college as an opportunity to set themselves up for their future with a good education SHOULD be helped by parents in whatever way is possible for the parents without sacrificing
their retirement. In the long run, if parents don't look for themselves, the kids are going to be responsible down the road.

then they forfeit the right to moan about the choices their kid makes later. As a matter of fact, even if they do pay for college, they forfeit that right. I intend to pay for my kid's tuition to whatever college is right for her. She'll make the choice and I'll get out of her way. I'm encouraging her to go because in today's market, if you don't have a piece of paper that says 'Graduate', you are starting six yards back from the starting gate. I don't have one myself and I've often wished I'd been a little swifter at 18 (not that my folks could have paid for it). I don't care if she takes a degree in philosophy or art history as long as she walks away with that piece of paper. Mind you, I've done just fine without it but in the twenty-five years since high school, the world has changed mightily.

Votech is wonderful for the mechanically minded; I'm not saying anything against it. But over the life of a person, that college paper can mean thousands and thousands in extra income. Which may mean my grandchildren can go to college.

tech schools pretty much are. Voc schools, while they do offer very academically oriented programs, also offer programs where the students are actually running businesses within the school, such as restaurants (there are some really fine culinary arts programs at several schools in the Seattle area, and all have on-campus restaurants), retail stores for those who want to get into the management end of retail, even a program where students help run a hotel.

Depends on familes financial circumstances.

a reality based idea of life. Not a pessimistic view; not a rose colored glasses view. There are things they should be aware of:

1. The limitations of the budget
2. The savings situation, if there is any
3. A good work ethic is often the most important thing to take out into the world.
4. Working during high school and learning to manage money will get you farther than wandering aimlessly in the wilderness of wanting to go to Harvard rather than a more affordable school.
5. Scholarships for many things are available to those who really do some research. They might be eligible for grants; work a year --- school a year if working part time isn't possible scholastically.

Mom and Dad or just Mom or just Dad put a roof over your head, loved you much, gave you meals, clothes, toys and all that a child needs. What one wants and what one needs goes for everyone in the family. Does a girl need a ten thousand dollar wedding? I don't think so, but if that is what she wants she can go for it. It's possible. Does one of them want to go to Notre Dame or Georgetown or Yale for reasons only known to them? Maybe they'll want it so bad they'll figure out how to pay for it.

My daughter has been asked so many times where she went to college. She owns her own business, teaches computer skills to those trying to find jobs, has another business guiding people through uncontested divorces, does taxes during tax season, is in Rotary and heads two major projects for them each year in addition to helping with others, blah, blah. Using this as an illustration; had nothing to do with her upbringing. ;-) Anyway ------- she laughs when asked. College? The college of hard knocks. The college of work experience. The college of going to BOCES for half days during the last two years of high school to learn office practices/computer software/business administration and so forth. She once registered with an executive temp. service and even though her resume read like a short book, she was told by a woman with a nasal problem that she'd never get anywhere without a degree. Today she owns an employment agency.

Love your children. Let them in on the secret ---- adult life is an adventure and it starts when you graduate from high school and leave home to go to work, to college or into the Marine Corps. Every day is a learning experience. You are responsible for yourself and the decisions you make can effect the rest of your life. Learn from the ups and downs and enjoy the day. Maybe it isn't really Hakuna Matata out there but you'll never know if you don't step out. Get excited about the prospect. Fear is a killer of the spirit and all those other good sayings.

Good bye and good luck.

http://darbythorpe.homestead.com/thorpe4.html

I just wanted to say that the picture you have in your signature line brought tears to my eyes.

And to me, the only moral obligation the parents have is to voluntarily help out, particularly if the students' financial aid package is linked to parental income. Otherwise, the encouragement should be for the child to start being on his/her own and to establish independent status by their junior year of college.

Legally we may be adults but society dictates that in many senses we are still children until we are 21. Then again, it's largely our fault for not voting.

1. In college. You live free. Pay for your insurance and your car. Ther rest is on me.

2. Working. Pay rent. Not token rent.

3. Not working and not in school. See ya.

I have 5 sons over 18...

My parents strongly believed in higher education, and pounded it into our heads that we were going to go to college. However, there was little money to go around, so it was abundantly clear that when they talked about working summers to "save up for college" they weren't kidding. Fortunately for all of us college tuition, fees and books were all substantially less expensive than they are now. I moved out and worked my way through, as did my younger brother and sister. We all started at community college, transferred to the University, and got degrees.

My kids have taken a different path. Both of them had to do some rebelling before settling down to college, and at a certain point I think they just "aged out" of our interest in supporting them as students. (Something about being over 21 and an adult.) We've chipped in for books and tuition as needed, sometimes groceries. They've always been good self-supporting workers, though, barring unforeseen layoffs. For awhile each of them moved back home, partly to facilitate education. At various times we've given them loans, which they've repaid.

The local community college has been a great resource. Our son went through the computer tech support program and got about half a dozen different certificates. He's doing so well that at age 27 he just bought a house.

Our daughter has taken longer to find her place, but suddenly started taking classes about two years ago -- challenging ones. She was just hitting her stride when she got pregnant, but never broke stride even when her boyfriend dumped her and her boss laid her off. She's 30, the (adorable) baby is 18 months, and she's plowing her way through the Drug and Alcohol Counseling program as fast as she can. We're chipping in support in small ways, I'm babysitting a few days a week, she just got a scholarship -- I'm amazed and delighted.

My sister's kids are different -- they are more inclined to do what their mother tells them, so they were steered into college right out of high school. As a consequence, my sis and her husband are juggling all kinds of college loans, tuition, books, dorm fees... And yes, her kids have been working summers since high school too.

None of us is wealthy, but we are all better off than our parents were. We all value education, and we all feel the kids should participate in paying for it as best they can. Part of it is because you really can't go far these days without a post-high school education of some kind. Another big part of it is we really believe in the intrinsic value of being a well-read individual with an educated mind. I don't know if my son or daughter will go to a university once they get their careers on track -- but at this point it may not matter.

I think if parents have enough money to pay for everything that's great, but maybe they should hold back 10% or 15%. Because I also believe that even rich kids should be encouraged to work for wages and save their money, so that they contribute something as well. Call it middle class values.

The government is not doing its part anymore to keep higher education accessible to the public, so parents who rely on community colleges and public universities need to remind themselves that 18 to 20 year old kids really don't have the means to do it all by themselves. Parents need to educate themselves about available loans and grants (which are not as available as they used to be), work-study programs and the like, so they can steer their kids toward them.

I think that kind of guidance is a parent's duty.

Someone else in this thread brought up the cost of weddings. Sheesh, the so-called "average" of $20,000 and up is a truly unnecessary and burdensome cost for the average family. Leave fairy tale weddings to the Hollywood crowd and the Hiltons. The rest of us should keep our feet on the ground.

Hekate

the parents brought the child into the world- it's their moral responsibility to provide it with the best help they can offer- all the way through that child's entire life.
however- that doesn't necessarily mean that the parents are obligated to pay for college and all expenses- unless they're extremely wealthy...in which case- fuck yeah!

I mean things like catastrophic illness/injury, where even with insurance, a family has to fork out thousands. Or the loss of a job that puts the family suddenly into a lower income bracket and the money for college has to be used for more immediate needs. Things like that. But of course, the parents should sit the child/children down, and explain things to them, about the changes in circumstances.

... they don't, yet are able....

I mean, what's the fucking point of raising them for 20-ish years, and spending a jillion bucks on em, only to leave 'em hanging at the end? It's like running 3 of the four laps in the 1600, and then quitting.

:rofl:

(There are all sorts of obvious and plausible assumptions left implicit here. I challenge the reader not reply with a strawman.)

It's INSANE that we've taken the huge college debts as a normal fact of life - look at other developed countries.

Fix healthcare first, then higher ed.

A parent shouldn't be forced to pay for college. I did but not because I felt obligated to, I did it because I wanted to.

to pay. I know my parents wanted to pay for my first stab at college, but they just could not afford it, having 4 other kids, all younger than me. But as I posted further up the thread, they did help me in that they let me keep living with them, without paying room and board, I got loans, and I worked part time to get money for incidentals. So they helped me in as big a way as they could. And I have always appreciated that.

I'm sure your parents help meant a lot to you. Room & board is nothing to sneeze at.

I have only one child so I was able to do it all for her. I would have felt like a lousy parent if I had the ability & didn't do it.

My parents helped me. As an adult, I went back and furthered my education, and realized how expensive it is.

My wife is one of three siblings. Her parents paid all of her two brothers, but not a penny of her education. They do not value females. They are in a position they could have paid part or all of her education. She has her MSW, compared to her brothers' 2 and 4 year degrees, but her parents still treat them like they are far smarter.

Our older son works at an introductory level at Catholic Charities, and recognizes the need to go back to school. (I ask him the simple question: when you go out, would you rather have $10 or $100 in your pocket? College = more money.) I'll help him.

Our younger son is in college. Our deal is get a B or higher, and I pay. His biological mother contributes some, but not in a reliable way. I could go to court, but I'm not interested in creating more havoc there.

Our daughter in 6th grade is an outstanding student. Her grades have been straight 100s for years. The school asked us if we wanted to consider having her skip ahead. My niece did that, and I am not sure that the results are always positive. My brother did save a lot, because she finished with her masters in a relatively brief time, too. But I would never pressure my daughter to "hurry" her education to save dollars.

Our youngest was recommended for a spot for advanced children with leadership skills at a private university this summer. She's 8, and one week costs $1900. Yikes! But those things are opportunities that neither of her parents had -- I grew up poorer than many people on DU could understand really happens in America, and my wife grew up a female in an upper-middle class home that placed girls and women in a second-class position. We are not going to allow those things to restrict our children's opportunities in life.

My mother's doctor father paid for her to go to one of the best universities in the US, but she refused to help me with tuition, and now I'm still paying for student loans more It burns me because she had the best of schools growing up, and is very affluent now, but feels no responsibility to her kids beyond feeding and housing them until age 18.



And yes, of course, she is a republican.

i.e. in its Republican form.

By sympathies.

My parents' attitude was -- Go in the army, get a job, or go to school. Find some way to pay for it.

In the end, that's what happened to all of us (4 boys) in one way or another. We're the better for it.

I couldn't watch my kids struggle with student loans while I was taking pleasure trips to the Caribbean & Europe. But that's me. Some people were really not cut out to be parents, and my mom was one of them.

And I sure as hell wouldn't let my kids go in today's army, no way. I'd rather they join the mafia. :(

It's nice if the parents can do it, but no, no moral obligation.

Certain kids would probably be best served being kicked on their butts, instead.

My dad paid for me to go to college and I appreciate it. If I had been caught goofing off, he would have cut me off, however, like he did to my sister. I paid for my books and recreational expenses, he paid for tuition and room and board.

Both my sister and I had scholarships for the first year at a state college. My father(a farmer) then paid for my schooling after the first year. It came with some stipulations, I was expected to get good grades, I was expected to come home each and every weekend to help on the family farm. When kids took winter break to go to the beach I was chopping ice on ponds :).

For four years I put my nose in a book didn't touch a drop of alcohol and came home to work each weekend. In 1999 I graduated with a degree in IT and had a starting job making more then my father with 20+ years experience in his job. My father told me it was "The best money I ever spent".

Getting a debt free start from college resulted in this:

1) I was married that fall in 99 while my wife was still in school. I saved enough money(just one car payment for debt) that we bought a house in the summer of 2000.

2) I got a great deal on the house and bought in when prices were lower and interest higher - 8% 30 year.

3) I refinanced the house twice and am now in it for a 15 year at 4.75%. Should have it paid off in 5 years.

4) Our low debt, no student loans, no car payments etc allows my wife to stay at home with our kids. This became particularly important because we had twins 3 months ago, along with our 2 year old.

Financialy I would be no where near the position I am in now if it hadn't been for my parents helping with college.

I've already started saving for all three of our sons, my goal is to get them all through school debt free. It will need to be a state school more then likely, which is fine and I want them to pick a good marketable major. If they don't go to school thats fine too but I want a plan on what they are going to do and when they will be out of the house.

I want my children to be able to secure a good future and am already putting away money for their education...even though college is 8 years away for my eldest.

Trade schools, college...whatever my child wants I will help with.

I don't want my children to be a burden the rest of their lives, I want them to be able to fly high and out of my nest but in the meantime I do not want to be a burden to them...so they will have to loan some of their tuition because I wanna eat when I get old.

fancy car, expensive Xmas gifts, or high dollar HS graduation gift, give him or her something that will last a lifetime, an education!

My sister, 13 years my senior, got all the family college money in 1982, when it was a little more affordable. Cut to 1995, one parental death later, and my mom couldn't afford to put me through anything that wasn't a car wash. I'm in debt to my eyeballs, I'll never see most of the money I earn, I often feel like by 5 years in a state college was time wasted, and the last I checked, Western Kentucky University has never seemed to be hard up for money for its football and basketball teams.

The spoiled shits can fend for themselves.

Here's the other side of the coin; does a college age kid have the moral obligation to obey a parent who is paying for their college?

Does a child whose parent paid for college have a moral obligation to support the parent in their old age?

How about if they didn't pay for college?

I would say it actually depends. You want support, remember that with it comes obligations. Nothing wrong with mutual interdependence. But if its not mutual and it turns into "take take take" with nothing going the other way, thats a different story.

Every family has a right to work it out to the terms that work for them, without being judged by a bunch of snotnosed DUers.

but it's kinda depressing so let's not talk about it. Otherwise we will have to give up reproduction out of collective guilt, bad idea for the species.