"Marines are good at killing," he said. "Nothing else. They like it."

Apparently these marines had a lot of practice killing in Fallujah.This certainly sheds a light on the conditions of our troops in Iraq and what the Iraqis are subjected to.

:(

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/01/wbush101.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/06/01/ixuknews.html

<snip>

In January, shortly before the first published reports emerged about US marines methodically gunning down men, women and children in the Iraqi town of Haditha, The Daily Telegraph spent time at the main camp of the battalion under investigation.

Rumours had spread that what happened on Nov 19 diverged from the official line that locals were killed by a roadside bomb.

None of the troops wanted to talk, but even a short stay with the men of the 3rd Bn 1st Marine Division in their camp located in Haditha Dam on the town's outskirts, made clear it was a place where institutional discipline had frayed and was even approaching breakdown.

<snip>

Haditha was shockingly different - a feral place where the marines hardly washed; a number had abandoned the official living quarters to set up separate encampments with signs ordering outsiders to keep out; and a daily routine punctured by the emergency alarm of the dam itself with its antiquated and crumbling machinery.

<snip>

The day before my arrival one soldier had shot himself in the head with his M16. No one would discuss why.

...............................................................................................


"Survivors say Marines went house to house in a rage"


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003031922_hadithatale01.html


<snip>

"We were scared," she said. "I tried to hide under the bed." With shrapnel injuries to both legs, she lay still for two hours.

Around her, seven family members lay dead: Ali and his wife; their three sons and one daughter-in-law; and their 5-year-old grandson. Only one of the household's adults lived through that morning.

In the first moments of shooting, Hibba Abdullah snatched her 5-month-old niece off the floor.

The baby's mother had dropped her in shock after seeing her husband gunned down. Clutching the child, Abdullah scampered out of the house. She and the baby, Asia, both survived.

The baby's mother "completely collapsed when they killed her husband in front of her," she said. "I ran away carrying Asia outside the house, but when the Americans returned they killed Asma, the mother of the child."

This stuff happens when there's an institutional breakdown of discipline, for which, in older times, officers would hang. It is absolutely not acceptable. But in the current military, it is tolerable, until the media makes a stink, apparently. That is wrong.

But it's what happens in dirty wars.

Doesn't seem like it will work out well for them.

I don't want to excuse these Marines - they deserve to be tried for war crimes; but I don't want to pretend like this awful incident happened independent of a maddened white house looking for wars.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

"God, has a hard on for Marines!"

and yes indeed it is "Full Metal Jacket". :cry:

Not that I'm condoning the behavior. But hopefully this time no one will be spitting on the side walk in front of them yelling "Baby Killer" at them.

Hopefully this time those responcible will be doing time

As are those who covered it up and those who sent them there in the first place.

There is plenty of guilt to go around.

Just so you know, that's an urban myth. It never happened. It was a fabrication by the right wing that they have been milking for decades. Look it up.

amongst people driving by in the cars yelling shit at me.

Yes it was pretty crappy when you had to show up for your flight in your class A uniform. But I guess you know all about that

Ever since that sailor got shot in that hijacking.

MAC flights out of Travis AFB all US Armed Forces personal must be in uniform

and ya thats where it happened

and many availed themselves of the discount.

And you could pretty easily get bumped to first class in your alphas, BUT, as far as I know standing orders for all branches since '93 or so has been to fly in civvies with a hat covering any "distinctly military" haircut. You should also keep your military ID in your breast pocket rather than your wallet. That's the force protection posture, at least; as to how often it was followed I can't say. The only times I flew under orders on a civilian airline my packing orders didn't include alphas to begin with so I didn't take them and just wore civvies on the plane.

There's even a documentary about this very topic that supports it was a myth.

My apologies if it really happened to you, as you claim, but I have read that several journalistic studies on those alleged incidents revealed they didn't happen. For that reason, I will remain skeptical about any claims. There's even a book called "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory and the Legacy of Vietnam" that also reveals those alleged incidents did not happen. Even the VVAW defends this claim.

Here's more info:

http://www.thevoicenews.com/News/2003/0228/In_Response/R03_Bernard-re_Barlow.html

http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=215&print=yes

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.cgi?path=25959912809618

http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=350

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/04/30/debunking_a_spitting_image

I was a kid in 1968 and remember feeling sorry for how the Soldiers were used and abused. There was no hatred what so ever from anyone that I recall.

We both remember

As I said above, my sincere apologies if this really happened to you, as you claim, but all the research done on that matter reveals it was a myth. Here's just a sample:

http://www.thevoicenews.com/News/2003/0228/In_Response/R03_Bernard-re_Barlow.html

http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=215&print=yes

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.cgi?path=25959912809618

http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=350

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/04/30/debunking_a_spitting_image

They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

FUCK tese fuckin DU adverts! FUCK TEM!
You ear me Skinner! Fuck your fuckin adverts!

I wrote an essay ere.
Since my keyboard is missin letters between f and j, I ad to copy and paste tose letters. Took 20 min.
Wen my mouse tried to copy/paste a final letter, , I clicked too close to one of tose FUCKIN adverts , ot sown a pae sellin ministerial ordination. FUCK TAT!)and lost te wole essay.

et tese ads OUT OF ERE!

when will they ever learn?

For some combat veterans and military experts, the allegations of civilian massacre by a group of Marines in Iraq are not surprising.

In a war in which soldiers repeatedly take casualties from an unseen opponent, the enemy hides among the civilian population and the sense of frustration and rage builds, some observers say it was only a matter of time.

They see parallels between Iraq and events that unfolded almost 40 years ago in Vietnam with the My Lai massacre, in which U.S. troops killed more than 300 civilians, including women, children and the elderly.

"We're doing Vietnam all over again," said Don Cuneo, a Vietnam veteran who experienced a half-dozen major combat operations as a Marine lance corporal and received a medal for valor.

<snip>

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20060601/NEWS/606010316/1033/NEWS01

Apparently so.

1. The soldier that shot himself in the head will get the blame.

2. This description and incident will get the Hollywood movie treatment.

a picture.

Not that I haven't been surprised before, but there's no good guy in this story hence it lacks the basic antagonist/protagonist formula that makes exploitation so easy. Maybe when it's all said and done, they'll find someone they can twist into a good guy.

heard - otherwise it would have just been shoveled under the rug and nobody would have been the wiser. Who pushed to get this story out - was it Time Mag or....?

I thought it was spreading freedom. Who knew?

that quote is ridiculously broad and false.

"Marines are good at killing," he said. "Nothing else. They like it."

In my mind that calls the credibility of this person's story -the parts that aren't verified by other sources- into question.

<snip>

At the dam there was one American civilian, an engineer sent out by the US government with instructions to keep the facility operational.

It was a difficult task. Each time there was a power cut the turbines stopped working, the water against the dam would start to build up and everybody knew that if the local engineers could not get the generators started in time it would collapse.

The American's job was not helped by the marines viewing his Iraqi workers as potential saboteurs. The troops he was quartered with terrified him, so much so that he would not let his name be quoted for fear of reprisal.

He was keeping a secret dossier of breaches he said he had witnessed, or learned of. He planned to present it to the authorities when he returned to the US.

"Marines are good at killing," he said. "Nothing else. They like it."


FWIW: No doubt there are many fine Marines. I happen to have a 22 year old Marine nephew who scares the shit out of me. I try to keep my young sons away from him when he is home. He used to be a nice kid. :(

Thank you. I read the article. That is the person whose credibility is an issure for me.

I'm sorry about your nephew. My father was a Marine. He isn't scary.

I don't know what happened to him in Basic but it changed him for the worse.

Aren't they dangerous to the rest of us?

This is oversimplification. It is not a soldier's job to kill, per se. It has something to do with battles and military engagements.

Geez, do they really think they would excuse this if it were the other way around? Oh, hell, what am I thinking?

:banghead:

Wonder why no one here picked it up. Silly me, I would have called this NEWS.

Another clip from the article

Instead, a number had moved into small encampments around the dam's entrances that resembled something from Lord of the Flies. Entering one, a marine was pulling apart planks of wood with his dirt-encrusted hands to feed a fire.

A skull and crossbones symbol had been etched on the entrance to the shack.

I was never allowed to interview a senior officer properly, unlike during every other stint with American forces. The only soldiers willing to speak at length were those from the small Azerbaijani contingent whose role was to marshal the band of Iraqi engineers who kept the machinery going into and out of the facility.

The US troops liked them. "They have looser rules of engagement," one said admiringly in a rare, snatched conversation.

We (US) reverse the order of the numbers in dates. Catches me all the time, too.

Who'd a thunk it!

to do two things and two things only: kill people and break things. Period. It is NOT a police force, a peacekeeping force, a winning-hearts-and-minds force, or any of the other bullshit they're sending those kids to Iraq to allegedly attempt to do. The idiots in charge have put these Marines (and the rest of our ground troops) in a completely untenable situation, which in many ways is clearly analogous to Vietnam--they're fighting an irregular guerilla force which is largely indistinguishable from the civilian population. When that happens, history shows that atrocities against civilians are pretty much inevitable.

These guys are in a hellish situation b/c of BushCo's greed and power lust.

It isn't right to kill civilians deliberately, but when we fought an insurgency in Vietnam, the same kind of thing happed for the same reasons.

Check out the article associated with this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1325779

(Edited to add the link.)

They love killing. Semper Fi ..