Wish DUers spent half the time pointing out the HUNDREDS of errors

and omissions by Corporate Media, and noting how many people have died as a result, as whine about Truthout and the fact that we will never know what actually went down on this one point.

For the record, I do think Rove has been squeezed by knowing there was an indictment that could be opened if he didn't help Fitz's investigation. A tip to Leopold may have been part of the tactics used to stress Rove into submission. I don't know and neither do any of the rest of you.

Anybody recall way back to LAST WEEK when it was noted the WH would not fight Fitz putting Cheney on the stand? Think about the possibilities there.

And instead of standing on shaky ground, berating a progressive news site, how bout some energy pointing out to voters in America, just how often Corporate Media has been wrong, usually in ways that mislead people into going along with policies that were bad for America but good for corporate profits!

Know what's up.

Besides, didn't Leopold say that he was given phony information, he would name his sources? We all need to be working together now. Anybody who wants to track down what the media said in the run up to Iraq and the reality of it would have enough material to write volumes.

Amazing how we have so much time to beat up on our own but not for discussing the wisdom (or lack of) doing so. ;)

Glad to see you marions ghost. :hi:

goes on here every day. Always has and always will.:)

Not by a long shot

alternative media. I feel like I couldn't have survived the last five years without that alternative media.

If Time, NBC, CNN or the New York Times fumbles a story, I doubt many people here would have much of a visceral reaction to it. After all, it happens damn near every day.

regarding the shit being peddled on corporate media, so we don't even respond to IT anymore! But, hey, this is an election year and we need to call them on their lies, spin and propaganda.

How many repentant bush voters have we heard say things like: if I had only known...

We gonna be so busy trashing TO on one story (which we STILL don't know the last word on) that we fail to scream bloody murder about the bloody murder that happens because corporate media gets it wrong about so much so often?

If there's a better description for the state of the nation in general these days, I've never heard it.

:toast:

I think most of us do expect shit to come gushing through the sewer pipe that is MSM. Truth Out, well, they were more like a spring bubbling up decent information and commentary before Jason Leopold went nuts on them. Too bad.

...some. But when our 'discourse' sinks to the level of many personal attacks on other posters, which has happened, it might be more than just holding TO a higher standard.

And when we expend so much or Skinner's bandwidth saying the exact same thing, thread after thread, day after day, it might be more than just holding TO to a higher standard.

We might also consider there are a lot of Americans who are novices to politics and not the news hounds many here are. Shall we blow one story outta proportion to the point that we run them off from seeking news from unconventional sources? Bet Rove LOVES that.

And, when did Rove's lawyer become the end all resource for knowing truth? That puzzles me.

We want it to end. We want the bad guys wearing orange. But the timetable for pulling it off might be painfully slow for many. We can throw up our hands and say, 'well, if Rove's lawyer said so... ' or we can put on our big people pants and be patient as the legal plays unfold.

All, ALL we do is speculate. We don't know and I think it is dangerous to trash a generally good online news resource cuz we are frustrated.

There's a TO party and a skeptic party. That's why this will go on. I think it's because the TO party has a stake in being vindicated, and that stake only grows the less their likely vindication becomes.

than tackle the vast common enemy? :shrug:

everytime they piss me off. Don't you?

like an awful lot of people have done on the TO/Leopold issue

It's sickening how the left will cannabilize itself over something that if true would just prove how CRAVENLY DECEITFUL the RW operatives are in their efforts to silence the left completely.

Thanks. I needed that. Give me a hand here if you have time. The buzzards are circling

Where's that dead horse smilie? :evilgrin:

the editor is conservative,but loves the attention that our letters bring.He rpints 75% of what he receives,as long as the letters are tasteful and literate.
http://thedailylight.com/articles/2006/06/12/dailylight/opinion/

Post that link from time to time to inspire novices about writing LTTE!

Sounds like an old school editor who understands the importance of civil discours to keep a democracy healthy. May he live long and his tribe increase!

That led to this Bushite disaster.

Not mistakes, mind you. But deliberate, mean-spirited LIES.

This one's on me! :toast:

I'll have a Manhattan, and put it in a dirty glass.

liberal news, only corporate news? Why can't we be independent & skeptical of any news scoop? IMO, if people has been more skeptical of the Truthout story when it appeared, this wouldn't have become such a big deal. We should always try to find out the truth, whatever the truth is.

But let's look objectively at time and resources spent around here on the two.

The Truthout debunking got attention cause the story got attention here. And, also, the story was wrong. So, people pointed out the mistakes & drama ensues. I think that was a good thing, critical thinking is a good thing - whether of the MSM or alternative media. It helps you to find the truth. Alternative media can mislead, just like corporate media, and it's too bad. I think we have to just trust ourselves & our own judgment in this age of media manipulation.

I'm sorry if I thought you were saying that we shouldn't question a liberal newsite - it is important to question the corporate media spin too. But IMO, it's just as important to evaluate our own news sources, especially since most people don't trust the MSM, but do believe what they read in liberal sites. In a similar way, many conservatives also distrust the MSM, but believe implicitly anything they read in NewsMax or hear from Rush Limbaugh. We're better than that. I believe that. I like to think that everyone here is here because they're trying to find the truth about what's going on in this country & we can't do that if we're distracted by lies. We've got to demand total honesty & integrity from liberal newsites, so that the alternative news can find the real news, and inform its readers. It's the only way alternative news (blogs, etc.), have a chance to take over the MSM monopoly. To the extent that we're keeping news sources accountable, I think that helps to preserve that integrity. And IMO, it's a useful endeavor. We, individually, can help to debunk MSM spin, but alternative news sites can do even more to help fight the Bush propaganda. But they need to be credible to do so.

Seems we are harder on our own is what I feel. That happens because we feel more disappointed by something we trust then the M$M who we know feeds us crap with a big spoon..

Oh, yeah! :woohoo:

Thanks for the post, havocmom!

:thumbsup:

1) Nobody likes being duped.
2) People had their hopes up and wanted to believe that it was true.
3) The author of the DU thread damaged himself in the process with a follow up thread.

That said...the level of emotion on both sides is a tad humorous.

in the same sentence.

;)

neener neener the sky IS TOO falling ;)

I'm with you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1417138&mesg_id=1417138

Just to be fair. :hi:

so many threads devoted to one reporter/website/story. Never even close. And this has been going on for weeks... it's just AWFUL today, there's like 30 threads clogging up the Greatest page... URGHHH!!! Yeah, we see whining about the MSM... but not like this. No excuses, these threads should have their own FREAKING DUNGEON... and the people interested in dissecting for the Nth time can do so at will. For the majority of us i think this brouhaha is just making it harder to find the threads that have some import and meaning in the wider scheme of things. Sigh...

for their complacency and wholesale failure to bring the truth to the people.

:patriot:

I suspect most of the people bashing TO & crew are really just very frustrated and have become far more so over 6 years of political insanity. They need something to lash out about and TO, like CBS, is an easy target. I'm not saying TO is right or wrong, but they DID paint a bullseye and now people are letting loose.

falter. Happens all the time these days. Good information is hard to come by. Because the WH lies and is so secretive. And so punitive. MSM has been cow-towed. Let's take a deep breath. Learn some lessons. And move on!

and counting as a result of the commercial abdication of journalistic core responsibilities in lieu of hubris, a rush to print and to become embedded for a sheer can of video tape & ad dollars and the ability to say you covered a bfee war without asking a single pertinent question while being spoon fed answers by an admin bent on the propagation of propaganda alone

the so-called M$M are dead, as is the free press = right, left & center

feel better?

It is always depressing to see those armchair crusaders bash honest investigators if they make a slipup. It was bound to happen. The lure of glory being the first to out a major newspiece probably makes most people a little bit less critical about their information and sources. I trust mr. Leopold learned from this experience and will improve his methods and keep up the good work.

Like you say, lets focus on MSM distortions instead of stoning honest investigators for making a mistake. Not everyone has the ability nor the inclination to go out there and do actual investigative work, but those who watch from the sideline (like me) should at the very least show some respect and decorum instead of displaying smug selfrighteousness.

But, yes, a bit of decorum would be good also ;) And we need to beware the trap of trying to destroy an otherwise accurate news source that provides a great service. I don't have subscription to NYT so I appreciate being able to read their 'select' columns on TO. And I sometimes do not have time to go stumbling through the web in search of the major stories not done by corporate media.

And TO is a very helpful asset for political newbies and budding news hounds who did not know about the many sources for info there are available online. Face it, we can't beat the junta and restore America until more citizens get real news. That isn't gonna happen while they think the corporate media is giving it to them.

People need to discover they are not alone in their disgust and anger at what is happening to America and the world. We need to help them be better informed and invite them to join us. Running them off by such hostile abuse of each other and disproportionate energies spent haranguing about one story is a tad counter-productive.

Rome is burning and we have spent too much time fiddling.

But sometimes I wonder if it isn't too late already. Let's face it, so long as the FCC doesn't stand up to ongoing corporalization of the national media and gobbling up of regional sources, and thus handing virtually all outlets in the hands of a few profit centered corporations, nothing is going to change - in fact, its going to get worse.

They have launched and still are waging a massive noise and disinformation campaign, and history does not look well on the prospects of an emerging society with that phenomena.

I'm not allowed to say this here, but to me its apparant that the Democratic Party, especially the last few years, is just as willing as the Republican Party to appease Big News Machines. In fact, look at Hillary, she's trying bigtime to bribe Murdoch to get positive spin. Its too early to tell, but I'm not convinced using appeasement to change the system is all that effective.

In the meantime, I too have to rely on general purpose and neutral sources of news that matters, and TO is one of the best. Cries to 'shut them down' is just incredibly stupid.