Face It Folks....We're Liberals....We're Losers....Get Used To It.

Hey....before you yell at me, allow me to say that I'm with you I too am a liberal loser. I also get my hopes up on a daily basis that things will change, that justice will be served. That truth and honesty will prevail. Well guess what? It ain't happening!

I really don't know what the answer is. Sure, we can fight our battles, and continue hoping that right will prevail, but all that does is get our hopes up before the eventual defeat. I could be more Rah Rah Rah....let's work hard, don't give up, for things are starting to change.

BullS&*T. Nothing is changing. The Democrats are still losing every battle. Does anyone really think the repubs will allow them to take control of even a single house of congress? If so, I've got a bridge to sell you. For anybody who has any doubt that cheating, fraud, lying, dishonesty, evil is the way to go, look at the consequences to those in power. That's the real key....power and money. With those, you can pretty much get away with anything. Anything at all. And it also helps if you're a card carrying repub.

Leave the house. Get off the internet. Volunteer for a candidate. Do something.

The republicans have been allowed to steal elections since 2000. We cannot do a blessed thing about it.


:hurts:

Have you tried? ANYTHING? Other than posting on the internet?

One thing that definitely, provably doesn't work is doing nothing.

I can't continue this arguement now, because I'm going to Ned Lamont's campaign headquarters to FIGHT FOR MY COUNTRY AND MY PARTY.

Bye.

Shouldn't this country work on it's own? Shouldn't it's citizens want things different? How can we possibly do anything, when the powers that be are so inherently corrupt?

I'm so sick of this "we have to do something" BS. If our leaders don't give a shit, it is a losing battle.

That's the mission. Trying to explain the manipulations of a corrupt regime to people with average intelligence. That's why there's so much to do out there......not here.

Since when? Things have never worked on their own. Our nations founding fathers fought their leaders, we ended up better for it. Slavery was ended with effort and activists as well as battles, civil rights made progress while we were awake though it slipped behind bars instead of being over and we missed that part. Nothing has ever worked on its own and the only way anything ever has improved is when people start to think "we have to do something". Same with womens rights, same with all of them. Nobody offered it, we demanded it.

My favorite quote on the subject.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead

Everytime I speak out about something I read on DU, or a sign that things are changing, people I talk to think I'm nuts. They don't care, or they are content with things as they are.

Even repubs who might not like King george, will still vote repub when the time comes. Nobody Cares!

What if you threw a protest, and nobody came? If this country doesn't give a shit, then why should I? Perhaps we're on the wrong side, and should just accept and give in.. I hate Hate HATE Losing all the time.

I spent four and a half years locked up before turning 15 mostly because I grew up poor, won't go into the rest but it leaves scars. Turns out what happened wasn't an exception, it's the rule. All that tough on crime crap came with a high cost and this is a taste of it www.prisonsucks.com

Another taste.
Torture Inc. Americas Brutal Prisons
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm

Turns out we're the most imprisoned nation in the world with a racial record that makes South Africa look good and it's all for a drug control policy that has increased damage rather than decreased it. Here's a taste with heroin, I can detail most drugs about the same and with no better results.

Trends in Heroin Use (1979 - 2004)
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/nsduh/heroin.htm

Trends in Average Heroin Purity (1981 - 2002)
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/heroin-purity.htm

Trends in Average Heroin Prices (1981 - 2002)
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/heroin-prices.htm

Opiate Induced Deaths (1979 - 1998)
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/opiates.htm

Now given that I've done time myself as a kid so know what it's like, given that I know the stats in detail and we imprison our own at a rate 5 to 8 times higher than comparable nations, and given that it's all been for a cause that not only failed but caused more damage than it ever stopped it would be pretty easy to give up. Most still think this garbage works and we need to do it.

Problem is that there are over 2.2 million people in our system now plus all the spouses, parents and children they leave behind many of who starve or lack care due to it, and if I don't say something then maybe nobody will.

It's easy to give up, people have done that for ages. It's harder to create change, now and then someone comes along and does that instead and we're all better off for it. Pick your side, a part of the solution or of the problem. We can't be on both.

Name a single victory. Anything, that the Dems can hold up and show as a sign things are going their way.

Kerry had a chance. He Lost. Well, not technically, but he did.

Hackett had a chance. He Lost.

Busby had a chance. She Lost.

Rove might be indicted. He Wasn't.

Next hope? Cheney indicted? Dream On.

Shrub Impeached? Yeah, sure.

There are more - you just have to calm down and think about all the shit the pugs have tried to ram through that we didn't let them.

We rock dude....and we arent' even in the majority yet!!!

If you are a person "of a certain age" you already know that nothing "stays saved"..It's as if we live in an alternate universe, where "push-pull" is the only constant. There is a group of people (we'll call them contrarians) whose sole purpose in life is to muck up the place.. They never tire of it, and no one can ever relax and be confident that they have "saved" anything.. We are basically fighting the same battles over and over..and have been for 40 years...No wonder the "new" stuff slips between the cracks.

We swim along in placid waters, with the confidence that things are OK, and yet just under the surface are a million piranhas, eagerly anticipating "meeting" us...up close and personal...

Rove cleared, Zarqwari killed, poll numbers up. This sucks

Poll numbers are not up, Rove is not cleared and Zarzwari is a publicity stunt.

Where did you come up with that list?

I also wonder if there is anything to do to stop them. I say we do a general strike.

I have to agree with you.
What's worse is that, even if the Dems won a house or two, will things really change for the better??
Yep, I'm a downer for sure, but see myself as a realist.
Only major populist upheaval will change things from where they are headed today. I really doubt that anything short of that will have any effect at all.
Now I have to go and cry it out of my system for awhile! :+

up things (more often than not they blew up themselves due to bad bomb making).

am not a loser. I want to back a candidate that believes in the rights of the people over the rights of the corp and rich. I am in the majority of people who feel that way. We have the power...

There may be some democrats in congress who are losers, and refuse to fight for Democratic principles, but that is changing. We have Democratic incumbents like liberman who are being challenged, and that is the first warning to those representative that they better tow the line

Get ready to be flammed

We also live under a liberal agenda which has pretty much gone around the world. People used to want to be like us if you can recall Pre-Bush.

There is one single issue that touches literally every fight we've lost; one issue which, if properly addressed, would eliminate the republicans forever.

I'm not talking about their corruption- that is a result of this issue.

I'm not talking about their lying- they can lie and get away with it because of this issue.

I'm not talking about media responsibility, because if this issue were addressed, they wouldn't be able to get away with being shills for power.

If we were to eliminate corporate personhood, and strip corporations of all their "rights", making them only priveleges to be revoked at will on the local level, Republicans would have no chance to win.

That is all.

It's all in the approach. My issue is the drug war, I've seen people beat their heads into a wall to no good effect by getting stuck on moral arguments when often the argument we needed was as simple as it doesn't work and causes damage. We've got the stats to prove it.

Similar with most things. My favorite example is MLK. Everyone thinks the key to his success was non-violence and protest and I'll grant that it's a part of it, but what he really did was to come up with his own approach to the problem. We'd had Jim Crows laws in the nation for about 100 years and not a damned thing changed, we had protesters and angry black youths such as the Black Panthers and it lead mostly to confrontation.

MLK ignored all the ideas about how we should do things and did it his own way, found a way that worked. We need to do the same both as a nation and as a party. Forget old ideas, forget what worked a decade or two ago other than as a history lesson and play with some new approaches to find what works. People get too stuck in a routine and fight the last battle instead of the next one.

"Get used to it." What disgusting arrogance.

Such a defeatist attitude. I guess being in Orange County can sully your outlook, but let's be reasonable here. I don't consider myself a loser in any context of the word.

Them too. They are destroying the planet and with global warming and the idiocy of the American fundamentalists that only seem to care about this life and heaven, there may not be much of planet left in 50 years.

They are losers too, because the "believe" that dying for Halliburton or a neo-con version of the middle east is a just way to die. Is worth giving your child for.

The rich are the only winners, this country is fast becoming a bannana republic. In 25 years no one will have a decent job or health care that isn't in the government or the military. The jobs are gone.

I agree. I don't live in this denial that the Dems we have are going to change a damn thing. I'm becoming convinced that only something bigger is going to save this country.

believe it or not liberals/democrats have made progress:
1) Bush's approval ratings are sinking (33% according to CBS yesterday)
2) public support for the war is dwindling
3) more and more democrats are speaking out against it
4) more democrats are willing to speak out against Bush and the war
5) the polls indicate that Democrats stand a chance to make big gains in '06 elections
6) Dems have won special elections for several state assembly/senate seats in previously GOP districts in VA, NJ, MN and elsewhere. The special election last week for a congressional seat in a strongly Republican district didn't pan out but we came within 4-points--a swing of 18-points in that district since '04.

Finally until democrats can win control of congress can democrats take on Bush effectively.

Oh, hell, why fight fascism? It's always going to win, isn't it?

We fight because these assholes leave a stinking pile of shit in place of nations.

They are parasites. Termites. Cockroaches. Locusts. They do nothing but destroy.

Which is depressing. So you just sit there.

People agree with our liberal agenda by large margins.

Unfortunately, the people have been disenfranchised.

We aren't losers, we've been robbed!

If they tried to cheat and lost, then they would be losers.

But since they cheated and got away with it 100%, then they're winners, thus making the Democrats losers.

Whomever said it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.....was likely a Loser.

The republicans are fucking up EVERYTHING they touch and Bush's numbers are lower than EVER and still we're depressed and self-loathing??

It's like Anakin Skywalker. You can cut off his arm. Burn his body and legs to a crisp. Yet, he'll still live to breathe another day, and eventually take away everything you have.

When you're in power, you can get away with anything. ANYTHING!

haven't got them to withdraw from Iraq. Or fire Karl Rove. Or do one damn thing differently. They still have all the power. In fact, I think the American people are now officially irrelevant. Until people are in the streets demanding change, saying "I don't approve" to a pollster means shit.

We are now the majority -- we always were -- but now it's overwhelming. We HAVE the power. We just have to use it.

If we lose in November, then perhaps I'll join the chorus of tearing of hair and rending of garments.

(yeah, that's me).

Unfortunately, the media tends to underreport such things,
so they don't exist for most Americans.

The real benefit of protest in America today is to let the rest of the world know.
The foreign press DOES pay attention.

they seem to want SOOOO much. Here on DU and elswhere we've had a number of credible warnings that war was IMMINENT--and yet it failed to materialize. There was that Seymour Hirsch article in the New Yorker a few months back. Then there was benburch's warning here on DU, which I reposted (with link) on another forum under the heading "I'm Passing On a Rumor..."

Sure, the freepers all laughed at me and I even referred to it as "my Chicken Little post." I told 'em all I WANTED to be wrong on this one, and I'm sure Ben and everyone who read his post feels the same way.

Notice also what was happening in corporate media at the same time, in April and May: They would start revving up the anti-Iran propaganda, but then it would just kind of fizzle out as some other wedge issue like immigration took center stage.

I have no doubt that a bombing campaign against Iran was in the works and probably still is. But they aren't going to go there, and the reason is that they are AFRAID to go there. If they forced some high-ranking generals into a position where they would HAVE to disobey an insane order, they know good and damn well the people would back the generals, NOT the administration.

It might seem like they get away with everything. But they are not going to force a confrontation with two-thirds (at least) of the American population. Averting WWIII is no small accomplishment!

primary. Hopefully, he will win and wipe the smirk off of Allen.

what am I.

Get over yourself. Quickly. Oh...to quote Henry Rollins. Just shut the f*(& up.

Oh-- and have a nice day. :) Douchebag.

What a shortsighted pile of you-know-what your post is.

Can you get us a copy?

People hope or despair but very few actually do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1417810&mesg_id=1417810

good thing we all don't believe it:eyes:

I feel your pain.Sooner or later it has to change.Don't give up hope.

Dems are the majority by a considerable margin in the country and that margin is growing. As soon as we get a democracy again, we'll see a complete reversal of the present situation.

Oh wait....in this country apparently they Do.

It is hard to beat someone who cheats and gets away with it. That's the bottom line, and it's why Kerry conceded, and rove got away again, and why nothing we can do will stop them from continuing to get away with whatever they want.

the game's been rigged, but lose we do, day after day. It's not our fault, really, at least at this moment. We are out of options. They control the media, the banks, and the voting machines, and there is nothing we can do to stop the onslaught. I for one will be looking for work abroad in a year, keeping my head down in the meantime - that's the only way out for me. I'll be removing my impeachment bumper stickers and the like - it won't be long before they begin assaulting people like us openly, and we won't have any recourse. Read about that guy in Florida who has been arrested for protesting the crooked elections in Boss Jeb's Banana Republic.

IMO the media is the main problem. Take today's spectacle of the fat sissy bashing Kerry and Murtha's service records. If we owned the media, every talking head and every radio station would be running constantly quotes like "The fact that a draft-dodging coward like Mr. Rove would attack decorated war heroes shows just how depraved the GOP is". After a couple days of this, Rover would fairly be the object of scorn and ridicule.

But we don't own the media - rove does. So his audacious slander becomes the talking point for every radio station and Cabal "News" network, and so the slander becomes the truth.

The upside is that Rove and his minions will bring the demise of the US. they will likely get their wish of tunring the nation into a religious state, sort of like Israel, and soon thereafter we'll be overrun by China or some other country that's more free than ours.

Not knowing what was going on in the Grand Jury how could anyone assume they knew what the outcome would be?

I wouldn't have been surprised if Rove was indicted just as I'm not surprised that he wasn't. Fitz always struck me as very professional.

The point is to TRY. If you don't understand that, then you are the loser you claim to be who is simply looking for company.

As long as there is even a sliver of hope, we stand and be true. And who knows, human sociology is a funny thing and tipping points/critical mass as social phenomena is impossible to predict.

We could still win partially or wholly in the long run. The future is not written. Thing looked worse, MUCH worse for people and for liberty in 1780. In 1862. In 1932 and again in 1942.

I may even agree with some of what you said about the Democrats, but the point is to KEEP TRYING. To fight. To live on your feet, not mewling on your knees.

Sure things may get worse, much worse before they get better again. And we may lose it all and rush headlong into a new Dark Age. ANYTHING could happen. The future is not written.

But we stand with a candle to the dark.

But I'm not.

Most liberals are losers because they are pussies. They don't know how to fight back. Liberals are passive by nature.

Republicans take advantage of that personality trait. Liberals expect everybody to play by the rules, but when that doesn't happen, they cry foul. The only problem is, nobody gives a shit. Nobody listens.

What liberals need to do is learn how to strike the opposition in the face. Hard. With their own medicine. Liberals need to learn how to play hardball. They need to know how to play dirty.

If the referee has quit, as he obviously has, there is no other choice. But God forbid any liberal take this advice. They rather rhyme and reason and talk in circles, trying to intellecualize the conversation to a nation of morons.

Fuck that. I'm a fighter who is a solid liberal. I'm the guy the republicans don't want to know. My gloves have been off for a long time.

A loser, that is. I question the motives of anyone who would write what was in the OP.

I don't really believe liberals are losers but I do think that too many liberals are too nice (but "nice" doesn't necessarily equal "pussy"). However, having said that, I agree with you that "liberals need to learn how to play hardball" and "how to play dirty". Otherwise, the Republicans will continue to run roughshod all over us. It's not a matter of stooping to their level as much as it is taking off the rose-tinted spectacles and fighting as hard and with as much conviction as they do while remaining true to Democratic principles.

One thing in particular that annoys the hell out of me about Democratic politicians is that they dance around things, trying to keep from looking too aggressive. For example, why are they so apparently reluctant to call Republicans liars (and explain exactly why)? Why are our Democratic politicians seemingly afraid to challenge the MSM when they rake Democrats over the coals but rush to excuse Republican bad behavior? Why do they never point out what a joke FOX news is?

You said, "Liberals expect everybody to play by the rules, but when that doesn't happen, they cry foul" but that nobody listens. That's very true. The problem, as I see it, is that our guys don't convey anger well enough. They don't call the Republicans on their hypocrisy nearly often enough, and they also don't make any effort to call the MSM on their bullshit either. (I'd love to see, for instance, a Democratic politician tear Timmy Russert a new one some Sunday morning about how he allows his Republican guests to spout the most outrageous falsehoods without comment from him, while picking apart everything Democrats say.)

Russ Feingold is one of the few Democrats who dare to call a spade a spade. We need many more politicians like him.

How's your toothache? Did you get it sorted out yet?

Help me forget I have a toothache most of the time. I drive around with a bottle of clove oil and a box of Q tips because every once in a while, when the pain killers wear off, the pain comes back. I visit the dentist again on saturday.


I like Russ Feingold. We do need more like him.

that it doesn't work to play nice with Republicans. It's our so-called "leaders" who have yet to get a clue, but the rank-and-file figured it out a long time ago.

republicans are so much more "successful" because they are able, without conscience, to do things that would turn our stomachs. That does not make us PASSIVE or PUSSIES, it makes us DECENT HUMAN BEINGS. We must find a way to win (ESPECIALLY by dealing with the problem of outright vote fraud) without resorting to conservative tactics

I recently watched an interview with the authors of "Foxes in the Henhouse" by Steve Jarding, and Dave "Mudcat" Saunders , 2 democrats, which echoes exactly what you said. That men in the south wouldn't dare call themselves democrats or liberals because it denotes being a pussie...why? Look at how John Kerry reacted when his military record was attacked, did he get in bush's face about it? Hell no, he acted like a "gentleman"...and you have to ask yourself, why? Did he even file suit against those who defamed him? No..why?

Or Joe Wilson, they ruined his wife's career..is he furious? Madder than hell? Sure doesn't look like it to me. Maybe he'll sue...Maybe? Jesus.

Many years ago, a reviewer wrote some very unflattering words about Harry Trumans daughter's music ability...Truman threatened to come down and punch him in the nose. A simple thing..yet compare it to Kerry's response. Kerry a combat vet, who volunteered, who served, who spoke out when he felt it was wrong, & he had to act like a "gentleman"? He should have been furious & never missed a chance to let people, especially bush, know that.

I once heard coulter say Democrats never win any wars. Try WW2 and the peace that followed afterwards. Did I hear that from any democrats on tv? Nope. And the sad thing is, people really believe coulter.

3 years ago NY'ers found out that they were lied to about the safety of their air and water after 9/11..Hillary Clinton said "They will have to come to NY and face us!" "I will block any bush nominee to the EPA, until this is addressed" Fighting words..too bad she never followed through on any of it. A lot of people are dying here now, but I have yet to see Hillary even mention it during any interview, she's too busy on her own ego trip. They came to NY alright, not to face us, but to throw a "9/11" RNC convention...oh the tears! And now... all the cuts for Homeland Security funds. Hillary is sending "postcards" to Chertoff, instead of demanding the idiot be fired. And I wonder, why do democrats let them get away with it? But they do.

Look at Katrina, where the hell were the democrats? It took Anderson Cooper to get Mary Landrieu to stop thanking bush..for doing nothing...I couldn't believe my eyes..she had to be told. And if Mary thinks kissing bush's butt will get her anything, she best take a good look at how they have screwed NY by way of funds.

I don't know what has happened to this party..I became a Democrat because they championed Women's rights and Civil rights, it was a big tent...1st Catholic president, 1st Woman VP candidate, 1st Jewish VP candidate. It seemed to be the party of everybody. But what do I see now? If you believe in God, then u must be like all the loons on the religious right who have bastardize anything good about christianity. If you're from the south, then u must be a moron. If you served in the armed forces you can't be trusted. If you're a jew you only care about Israel. If you dare to even question our immigration policy, then you're a racist. WTF?

"9/11 didnt change anything"...Are you kidding? You have to be kidding! Do you have any idea how stupid and uncaring that sounds? Aside from personal loss, the country being attacked...it has changed everything..for the worse.

I've seen liberals defend Ward Churchill, who is no better than Ann Coulter or Fred Phelps, no matter how you try and spin it. And If you are against the war, press or no press, u go out and protest it..not ask for pictures of the marches, you get your ass down there.

If Coulter attacks the Jersey Girls.. you attack back..u bring up the fact they were trying to stop another tragedy from occurring, u bring up Lisa Beemer, bush supporter & trademark diva of "Lets Roll" and ask, just who is making the money? Do I see that from our reps? Nope

I've just about given up on our "leadership" and a few of the more extreme views I've seen on this board..but I haven't given up on the people in this country. They are angry & they do need a voice. And that voice has to represent a lot of people, not one ideology over another..but everybody. We have to make some changes in attitude and support people who are willing to speak up.

But quit? Never. The republicans lost control after Mc Carthy..and it took years before they regained that power back. They didn't quit, they didn't leave the country, they fought back. And like it or not, we have to do the same.


Thomas Jefferson said it best:

""A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."

And the war hero just accepted it.

Most Americans don't follow politics like we do. They look at it as more of a sport. Like a football game rather than a process that directly affects their lives. They're unable to see beyond the initial accusations. All they see is one guy calling someone else unpatriotic and the other guy accepting it.

If Kerry would have responded by saying, "Wait a minute, you avoided Vietnam because of your family connections. You essentially dodged the draft because your father was a very influential person. You were doing this while I was in the jungles of Vietnam fighting against the Viet Cong.

And you have the audacity to call me unpatriotic?"

I agree with you. Those slimes can do anything they want and it doesn't matter what our side does we always get beaten down. :-(

Some of us are still willing to fight.

Gut check time for you, maybe? Maybe time to take a little break from the 'net?

Your list of "defeats" goes back a couple of years, maybe. Try thinking about 10, 20 and 50 years into the future. Think about the accomplishments of the past. Don't be so short-sighted.

1. Most Americans are not happy with the direction of the country, under Bush. The more they see of Bush's policies, the less they like him. Now is not the time to give up. We have the momentum.

2. Sometimes it's better to keep your moments of self doubt to yourself, and think about them privately. Or do you wake up in the morning and say to your spouse, GEE Honey, maybe I should have married someone else?

If you want democratic leaders who show some grit and some spine, then be prepared to show some yourself, at all times. BUCK UP.