Professional Trolls

One more reason to be wary of feeding trolls
Published by Amanda Marcotte June 13th, 2006 in Interblog

What a lot of us suspected—that conservative trolls that seem to generate knee-jerk right wing talking points are just plants that are put there by the endless stream of right wing money earmarked for propaganda—looks like it’s probably true. People are reporting that they’re getting these comments from people that are coming from this company called Netvocates. The company sells itself as a company that will defend your organization’s reputation by sending people to fill blog comments with defenses. The blurb from the site is quite telling:

For many organizations, blogs represent an uncomfortable topic. Unlike traditional communication mediums, blogs frequently impact an organization and its products and image in uncontrolled and often unexpected ways. In addition, the sheer volume of blogs, message boards, and other discussion forums makes it difficult for organizations to effectively monitor the activity relevant to them.
http://pandagon.net/2006/06/13/one-more-reason-to-be-wary-of-feeding-trolls/



The NetVocates Solution
http://www.netvocates.com/nvsolution.htm

I think many of us suspected there were professional trolls....guess we were right.

:evilgrin:

and the thread gets hit like a hammer. By the way they respond -- they sure seem like professional trolls for the pharm industry.

It was brutal.

The supposed "link" between thimerosol and autism is hogwash. I'm appalled that RFK Jr. got snookered by the anti-vaccine types. My opinion of him sunk several points as a result.

--what about vulnerable sub-populations? If you did a study in the general population of the correlation between phenylalanine in the diet and IQ scores, you'd find no effect. If you limited it to people with PKU, there would be a very strong effect.

It was a coordinated, brutal attack. And it convinced those of lower IQs that Robert was "wrong." But he was right. And he had the courage to tell the truth, even though he knew powerful forces would combine with ignorance to attempt to discredit him. My respect for him grew.

and losing my religion over it (I'm a nurse and I really, actually believed that the practice of medicine was scientifically based and evidence based until I stumbled upon this very issue back in 2001), I am glad to have a few prominent people expose this one. The thing that really shocked me about this one was the deliberate cover up that occurred. I just never expected that from the CDC.

he didn't last long. :evilgrin:

I can't even imagine a logical train of thought on that.

It's the same line of BS thrown out by the phone companies since the the original AT&T was split up.

They "own" the infrastructure, ignoring the fact they've been given sweet deals by the US government to develop that infrastructure. They can't be excepted to invest in infrastructure unless they can charge what they want to charge for others to use it. Content providers are leeches. Etc.

Whether it is logical depends on your definition of logic.

I had several go-'rounds with the individual in question. I'm not sure the person fit with this particular subject because he was quite open about the fact he was a paid lobbyist for the Bells. That is, he wasn't pretending to be just some private individual with an opinion.

The latter is what companies in the technology sector have been doing for years, having employees and others paid for the purpose visit "review" sites and post glowing reviews to try to counter the bad ones. This sort of thing infected Pricewatch pretty heavily a few years ago, and it made the site worthless to me. If you want to use it now, you have to go there, then go try to find an independent review of not only the product in question but the company selling it, and it defeats the entire purpose.

AND I always mention that my livelihood depends on the drug companies.

AND I often respond to what I see as ridiculous and downright ignorant comments (such as "drug companies don't want to see and AIDS vaccine, because they would lose money") but not what I see as justified criticism ("drug companies spend too much on marketing, and not enough on basic research" And there is a LOT of knee-jerk hard-core "if it's from Big Pharma, it's inherently evil" type comments on here that NEED to be addressed.

Not everyone who reacts to ignorant comments is a troll.

LynneSin, for instance, often mentions that her livelihood is dependent on the credit card industry, and she will often counter ill-informed statements (such as "CC companies raising the minimum payment hurts consumers") with valid info ("raising the minimum acutually HELPS consumers pay off their debt faster") Is she a troll?

Are we only allowed 100% anti-business comments?

Just try defending public ed - it doesn't even have to be pro-business to get flamed.

engage in the same type of pat generalizations and stereotyping that we hate from the right wing. We progressives pride ourselves on looking beyond the labels; we need to start acting that way too.

industry. The drugs that were pumped into him when his coronary artery disease was discovered two weeks ago saved his life.

Not to mention that he works for the largest generic drug manufacturer in the world and they are keeping his job open for him until he gets better.

Sorry. There is a lot wrong with a lot of businesses, not just the pharma industry.

I rest my case.

just kidding. :-)

And as Democrats, we should support different points of view, no matter where they come from.

Edit: Say, how much do those guys make, anyway?

I'm sure that they are fleecing the crap out of the rubes that are signing up.

If I could get paid to sit around and annoy people endlessly by being technically right on the details even if the argument as a whole is messed up... wait a minute...

Aw screw it, I'll just go to law school. I guarantee lawyers make better money anyway.

shiver

governing body to investigate allegations of violations of the rules and discipline practitioners who have been found to have violated the rules of professional conduct?

NetVocate does have some job positions if you're interested. ;-)

Guess I gotta rethink that, huh?

I haven't seen enough of you lately.:hi:

I've been busy with real-life stuff.
(and I've missed you, too! :hug:)

All the Astroturf that used to be on ballfields is now on the internet. It's everywhere.

the private sector is much more efficient when it comes to disrutpive trolling, anyway

Magic of the free market and all that

There sure are plenty of Official 9/11 Conspiracy cheerleaders there.

not just there :hi:

Now, off to bill another $10.95.

:rofl:

As a business, I would guess that Netvocates is just as likely to hire "advocates" for the book and movie sellers of the 9/11 Truth Industry.

Sid

A huge cottage industry has certainly been developed by the self proclaimed "truth (truthiness) seekers" viz a viz September 11/01. They hawk a lot of wares in the 9/11 Truthiness Industry and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of them are clients of Netvocates or similar outfits.

- those are grass-roots efforts, not comparable to the large economic forces that have an interest in W's presidency and his war.

*and* is willing to pay to defend it here?

for political advocacy and converts. They have been doing it since before 2000. It's part of their tithing to do Moon's work on the internet - and Moon's work means keeping Bush in power.

We outed a few moonies at the old MWO and at bartcop when I posted there.

Moonies? How did the whole "tithing" info become known?

Thanks, blm!

alot of money, you're expected to give your time and services. And, as in any serious cult, that means ALOT of time.

Moon and Bush and the whole Tim LaHaye crowd are VERY CLOSELY ALIGNED and have been for decades - the whole move towards fundamentalism was FUNDED with the intention of using it for political power. They have nurtured fundamentalism in every denomination, even the Catholics starting with the TFP in South America and bringing it into the US.

Bush1 and Moon go back to the 60s where they formed their alliance as intel operatives.

Once you understand how they operate and what their goals are, its easy to draw moonies out as trolls - they get very defensive when you bring up the Bush-Moon information, and they feel the need to excuse it as a much more benign partnership as if they are both just seeking to serve God.

out of the restaurant I worked in in the early 80's.

They would shove a rose in customers faces while they ate, and ask them to buy it.

They were very easy to get rid of, and would return at least a few times a week.

They seemed seriously abused in some way. They almost seemed to be drugged. They were very single minded about their rose salesmanship, but very pliable and expressionless, save for a bland smile. Just like the cliche.

Could spot em a MILE away!

:evilgrin:

where, in the middle of a party, one of the modsters flashes a badge and says 'I'm from the FBI, you're all under arrest'. Then, one-by-one everyone at the party reveals that they're either CIA, FBI or MI5.

Some days, I wonder about this site....

...but nobody ever listens.

:D "bah... baah..." :D

were a generally agreed upon phenomenon, like Agent Mike is now.

I mean like years ago. Of course, there are more people to argue with now.:-)

Which one are you Moonie, CIA, or OSP? (Just kiddin')

Actually, before I came to DU, I posted on a local forum that was a mix of Freepers and Raving Liberals. I swear one poster was my paid minder. She lived in VA and bragged about going on visits to the Pentagon. She was such a pain in the ass, after awhile I couldn't post a thread, especially if it was about BushCo, without her hijacking it. Funny thing, she stopped posting there, soon after I quit and came to DU.

especially those linked to major newspapers. The forum for our local rag has several who post daily and in shifts. They even leave messages for each other as they change shifts.

because the forum that I was on was hosted by the local mullet wrapper that is owned by the NYT's.

!! Professional Trolls !!:evilfrown::+

suspected it for a long time

it's not a joke like www.rentatroll.com?

What the hell kind of job is that!?

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Not unexpected, but tiresome. The evil attacks on every and all fronts and leaves no stones unturned. Like some foul gas, it expands infinitely and gets into ever nook and cranny.

Only one thing to do, and that is to struggle on and meet their lies with the truth, though it is useful to know the enemy.

is the lies the trolls spread. If someone is not well read on a subject they may think the trolls have a valid point. I put trolls on my buddy list, to keep track of them.

Bill

I determined long ago, if someone wants to say shit about you, those that listen are just as stupid so it's best to ignore them too. And shit sayers are usually just jealous Jennies anyway (or Joey's), no life walking the dog mo fos..

I'm sure there are more.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

Have you ever researched reviews on an item you wanted to purchase but were apprehensive about? Ever see reviews that just don't seem genuine and are there to be contrary to the others? It happens all the time, and it can go either way. There could be a product that gets great reviews but then all of a sudden there are comments that pop up here and there about how bad it is, and how to stay away from it, trust me! etc. Also on the other side of the coin, where the comments are mostly negative or neutral, but out pops this insincere sounding "what are you talking about? This thing rocks!".

This concept is not new. It has been around since user feedback has been around, whether via blogs or review sites.

That's why it's always our responsibility to deduce fact from fiction as thoroughly as possible.

Every time I research I product I'm considering buying, I have to go thru pages and pages at Google telling me the product is GREAT or awesome or blah, blah, blah. I generally start at Page 10 or something for real information.

But, again, this another reason not to feed the trolls here on DU.

...or the same "never ever ever buy from this company - EVER!" review on every single site by the same person?

You know what I'm talking about. It really pays to be extra diligent when researching stuff on the internet. Eventually we find "trusted" sites to get our info from. DU will always be a due diligence site as there is no way to know on any given day what sort of trolls are lurking - and politics is a blood sport for sure...

Even ebay feedback is not immune from it. With certain items you can see the same feedback cross posted over and over by different names but in reference to the same product, and those same comments will be found in other sellers of the similar items as well. It's just one big racket.

He was using names and locations that were similar, and this one bidder ONLY bid on this other guys stuff! It was hilarious reading the feedback from his ghost bidder (himself) when he accidentally won his own auctions! That user was suspended. Then he did it again and I reported him again (once again he was too stupid to think of a more original user ID & only bid on his own auctions). He was suspended again. He's still on there bidding on his own stuff and scamming people :eyes: (I HATE cheaters)

I could have been PAID for the past 12+ years of offering my opinions on message boards, blogs, mail lists, etc? Seriously? I AM SO PISSED!

Well, the first guy to invent a search engine wasn't Google and the first people to offer that "service" may not be the best. I wonder how much I'd have to undercut them by to steal their business. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :evilgrin:

but no one with any money shares my opinions, so no one would pay me.:evilfrown:

would have to be valuable to a monied interest, say the Owners and CEO's of large corporations who benefit from Free Trade, or an overthrow of the democraticaly elected government of Venezuela.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1352258

BTW: Be sure to read the first post....

people think the dissenters are the paid trolls. That's not how it usually works, less bang for the buck. Paid trolls are usually the biggest cheer leaders on most issues while biding their time to post the less conventional wisdom.

They are usually the ones who trumpet loyalty the most and bark the loudest when someone dares post a contrary point of view.

It is only after the 'street cred', or in this case the 'thread cred' is established that the real trolling for dollars can begin.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Are all Freepers.


So are:

______-__
_____
______
___
_____________________
_____
and...

I knew 3 of them right off the bat :D

I gotta agree ________. :hi:

Nice red underscore :rofl:

I was trying to think of what you meant by "trap" - then I thought "oh, add the underscores into the names of those who may be trolls" - if that's what you were thinking, don't do it - can you imagine all the speculation? :rofl:

"Blog Intelligence and Advocacy Service (BIAS)"

How hilarious (and creepy) is that?! They don't even try to HIDE the (admittedly thinly-veiled) subtext of what they're doing! No sir - it's built right into the acronym!

when what we need to be doing is rallying around our president to help achieve victory against the terrorists?

I think everybody ought to know that I'm eating McDonald's new deli-style turkey club sandwich and it is deeeelicious. That should hardly be a surprise though, since the name McDonald's is synonymous with quality.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1352258#1352629

I've cut all ties with McDonald's now that I've learned the sordid truth that Shamrock Shakes are made of people!

Learn something new every day...

:hi:

Please refer to John Hodgeman's "The Areas of my Expertise" for further info;
in the section titled "Secrets of the Mall of the Americas".

I didn't know HALF the stuff in that book, ItellyaWhut!

And freedom too.

:rofl:

wasting a bit of time discussing this informs others; which is helpful so naiive but sincere DUers end up wasting far more time getting sidetracked by corporate puppets and paid RW operatives

sometimes DUers, in their sweet naivete, think they can actually change a troll's mind. I hate seeing them get frustrated and, as you say, sidetracked.

They do seem to come in waves at times.

There have been lots of accusations flying around - just visit the 9/11 forum here for examples - but this is the first time that I've seen a poster with details of a company actually engaging in this kind of behaviour. Thanks for posting...this certainly bears watching closely to see how it plays out in the blogsphere.

Sid

I've suspected for a long time but this is the first I've seen real evidence that there are companies paid to do this. Amazing, isn't it? Rather flattering if you think about it.

I've long suspected that Scaife funded conservative "student" organizations on college campuses have funded online time for both blog and chat trolls. These never converse, just keep posting cut and pasted RNC and White House talking points.

The only possible response to professional trolls is to identify them and bounce them as quickly as possible.

them. A couple of months ago, we had a few of them that I noticed. One was racing from thread to thread, trashing Lou Dobbs with the same lengthy essay. I know there are also legitimate anti-Lou folks here, but a few are not.

This wasn't too long after the Dubai Ports deal, and Dobbs really laid into the administration unmercifully.

A good technique is to tell them it's rude to keep posting the same item all over the board. It IS rude, without letting folks know that you've "posted this elsewhere."

http://www.cybersoc.com/2006/05/behind_netvocat.html

Seems the blogosphere knows about them, and is predicting a backlash against any firm or group which is found to have used their services.

Sid

And even more interesting that the guy who apparently runs Netvocates posted on the cybersoc blog himself.

services. And publishing it far and wide, but how can we find that info?

Trading With The Enemy, if you want to draw the flies!

Not obvious but will post an anti-Dem news story designed to demoralize and divide the troops here on DU.

Obviously there's a lot of energy and power in the internet, floating around FREE... there are plenty of vampires who will want to exploit it.

I'm glad I have better ways of spending my time/earning money.

sickening company

I found this on a photography forum today. And there were other articles. But basically paid guerilla marketers are invading forums. And evidently political ones as well.


http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/evil/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products-152874.php

;-)

All that money for college, so well spent!

:rofl::puke::rofl:

:rofl:

I figure they never quite finished business school, and really missed making up stuff on a debate team.

It's the Alberto Gonzalez troll.

Now we know whose behind this invasion.

Having been a usenet newsgroup poster since the 1980's (google groups away if you have to), the notion that people would establish communities where using one's own real name wasn't the norm would have seemed odd.

we saw our competitors were checking our site every day. So we set our servers to redirect any hits from their IPs to an old version of our site!

Would love to see a system that lets known trolls and disrupters post but then only feeds their posts back to THEM. It would be like tombstoning them but they wouldn't know it and they could just keep wasting their time "posting" indefinitely. They might suspect something was wrong because no one would be repsonding to their posts, even extreme flame bait but what could they do about it?

I have seen them on many Musician's forums, health forums, etc..
I have noticed this since 2000, and have always felt they were payed due to the amount of time they all seem to have and the simular talking points used.
Any ideas on countering this slimey force?

noticed them and it's our for profit health care and PHARMA industries that are planting them.

They don't only throw crap on the internet but get articles published in print media that can be legitimate but whose editors were asleep at the wheel. The companies who hire them are able to make themselves seem not involved in the propaganda because no one can trace the astroturf to them directly unless someone can dig up an invoice showing the connection.

Just ask them, 'Oh by the way, where do you shop for suits? Brooks Brothers?'

fucking pieces of shit low-life spooge. Paid lemmings.

occasionally over the years i noticed a film being hyped, sometimes a film of no merit whatsoever, and i had to ask myself just why

i am not talking abt films that cover legitimate social issues that would otherwise be overlooked but obvious junk films that should have gone straight to video and are just as quickly forgotten

there was one that they all but admitted they hired people to go on forums to hype it, but it was so w.out merit that it dropped from history in a weekend and i'm finding it hopeless to recall the title all these years later

on political boards i have noticed so many people hold whack beliefs in real life that i would never be able to tell who was being paid to hold a whack belief, after all, supposedly someone even once voted for dubya, obviously not a majority or they wouldn't have to steal, but some number of persons greater than zero -- and that tells me all i have to know abt the intelligence level of the human race

on the travel boards it is easy to tell when it's the bed & breakfast owner or hotel owner who has written the hype, they use that advertising language instead of real language

most creative internet promo for Clerks 2 (ugh.) gets a walk-on part on his next disaster film.

Then again, I'm under 30 and from NJ. Kevin Smith is in our DNA or something.

There may be some here. But few.

Who, but seriously, Who, would pay to try to make DUers change their mind sufficiently to vote republican?

There's not, as far as I know, enough Big Pharma dicussion here (unless there's some forum lurking that I've missed ... intentionally) to impact their sales or get the media's attention. Maybe on some of the more single-issue boards ...

But I read netvocates' mission statement, and I think of Nike or The Gap and sweatshops, or maybe Burger King and GMOs or trans-fatty acids. Even mercury in vaccines is pretty much a drop-dead issue in the press, since Hg is almost entirely gone from most vaccines given to kids. But Hg in tuna ... there's a possibility. Even something like the sugar-growers or textile-makers, in an attempt to motivate DUers to write their congressfolk to influence legislation. But Rove, to make repub policies popular ... on DU?

Somebody pays netvocates, and they want a benefit. $$.

If I were netvocates, and I specifically wanted to hire trolls to work in DU ... I'd reach out to Democratic primary candidates and liberal media sources to hype their wares, or trash their competitors. I wouldn't try to get Delay to pay for a DU troll; the people here are not likely to be swayed, and such a troll would get his head handed to him on a platter.

influence any independents or worried repubs checking out other points of view on the web. There are a great many people rethinking the republican Party and their vote for Bush.

As for corporations, when millions or billions of dollars are involved, they leave no stone left unturned.

Perception is everything, and every little bit of info casually fed into the discussion aids a cause. Even the seemingly silly polls we find everywhere online play there part.

It is an enormous struggle to influence perception, and always has been. The internet is just a relatively new arena.

most of the netvocates Ive heard of are just advertising types. People who log into gaming forums to hype a new computer game, that kind of thing. Something with a more direct kind of monetary benefit.

They hire PR firms to get the good word out for them. Part of that good word is to make sure that any discussion about national health care or a meaningful prescription drug benefit under Medicare never gets off the table. They make sure everyone's mind is poisoned against any such idea before it even hits Congress or "K" street.

I have seen a discussion where 70% of the participants were for universal health care. Then the astroturf spreaders came in complete with websites and statistics to back them up (all of them phoney incidentally after we checked them out) and they turned the opinion to 40% approval in a matter of days. It was shortly after that Hillary's health plan was shot to smithereens.

This is why it's worthwhile to them to spend the money.

'cause IMHO this needs to stay up top.

Good find

what appears to be some right here. It's a no-brainier. They're here, betcha.

http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/onprin/v9n1/griffin.html

Wing nut.

http://www.cybersoc.com/

Evidently he once "he headed townhall.com, a conservative internet portal."

Are there certain keywords that attract them?

seem to call trolls quickly.

It seems every time I post that list a couple show up within minutes.

:yoiks:

The whole A.C. thing is a good example....the name was on the front page of two or three sections for several days; and half the threads were just plain inflammatory; or at least titled that way. What that mostly did was help ppl who want to point to us and say we are all crazy or extremist find posts to back their claims up.
Wish ppl would back up and see what is going on....don't add to the drama. We've got better things to concentrate on.

This place is fucking crawling with them.

mine is brand new and it only does it here, often when I'm nursing a good OP for votes.

at DU I can say without a doubt this place is crawling with trolls
and it's wrecking this site.

Like most organizations the people on the ground realize first
What the managers dismiss as "nonsense".

Good to see you

Cheers....

Read MY last entry on the OP and the one right before it, which I'm responding to and PLEASE tell me if YOUR computer was also just freezing up on DU only.

Thanx for the Laugh....:)

You didn't select it on the recommendation of someone on the Internet you didn't know, did you? ;-)

By the wya, what do you mean by "nursing a good OP for votes"?

the OP on page 1 long enough for others to read. If my issue this morning was isolated, I'd have ignored the phenomenon. Did you go to the link in the lounge I posted earlier on this thread? When I saw that other person post it made me wonder if everyone was having the issue. I found the coincidence amusing, especially since I was only posting on the two very similar threads.

People keep posting to threads they like just to keep them on page 1.

Have you tried recommending threads instead? That's what it was designed for.

Yes, I did check the other thread. Are you still having the problem? DU seems fine to me, including looking at that thread.

We ALL appreciate that I'm sure! BTW, check the time the threads were posted. I'm having no problems with it now.

Somewhere there's a building full of people that get paid to post right wing comments on message boards.

I wonder if Skinner could sue them for all the bandwidth they've been eating up? After all they get paid to use up his bandwidth. Shouldn't he get reimbursed for that?

explains those posters with gold stars and obvious, non-DU agendas.

Some of their responses are oh so "reasonable", with lots of "buts"...

I'm a life long Democrat, but...

I voted for Kerry, but...

I know it's fashionable here to bash (big pharma, health insurance companies, oil companies, non-organic food companies, etc.,etc.) but....


Trolls with loaded with "buts". And fiscally reimbursed for said "buts". No surprise here. MKJ

Obvious ones are exceedingling patriotic sounding. Or loaded with liberal themes. Those are the ones you really need to watch out for. Doubly so if they have a gold star, too.

:sarcasm:

Sid

Yes, this stupid organization exists, although they are probably deploying their assets in places where people are more credulous and their nonsense is more likely to be accepted.

But not everyone who posts a defense of a corporation is a troll - sometimes the comments here can get downright stupid. For example a while back I saw a post along the lines of: "Drug companies are blocking efforts to create and AIDS vaccine because it will cost them AIDS profits." Please. If I say that I work in the industry and I KNOW that they are actually working feverishly to be first out with a vaccine, that doesn't mean I'm a goddamned troll. It means I don't want people accepting every anti-pharma rant on face value. Some are true, some are false - let's look at them reasonably.

You won't see me defending everything they do, but there are two sides to some issues, and I would think folks would want to see that there may be another side to the 100% anti-pharma rants on here.

LynneSin will do the same thing for the credit card agencies, Kestrel for traditional veterinary care, and I've seen other DUers I know and respect do so for their own industries. I think it adds some depth and perspective to our discussions.

http://www.internetiquette.org/trolls.php

How to handle a Troll

1. The MOST important rule for handling trolls is not to feed them. You might say, "I don't feed them!" But most of us do even when we don't think we are. So here are some rules for how to not feed the trolls.

2. Learn first to recognize the troll. They are the ones who post flame bait to start a controversy. Generally a search for their posts will show they have no other posts or only similar flame bait. Sometimes they have 2 or 3 flamers suddenly on a board...all beginning at the same time, often supporting the other screenname...too stupid to know people will know they are one person of trollbuddies. They are the ones who have the same thing being said to them over and over and over. They are the ones pretending to not understand, or twisting posts in order to continue their trolling dialog. Do not imagine that YOUR response will be the one that will help them to GET IT. Not even if you roll them in glue and punt them into the Clue Dumpster* will they GET IT. They do not want to GET IT, they want to GET YOU. Don't be troll food.

3. When you realize they are a troll, do not respond to personal comments from them. This is how they hook you back into feeding them! Yea though they toss them to you like gumdrops leading to the witch's ginger bread house, ignore them! Like my buddy says, "Trolls (like Bad Farts) ONLY go away when completely and utterly ignored and no one posts anything on any of their posts...any "fanning of the fumes" just gets them all happy to offend all over again ."

4. Learn to ignore them. You can do it. If you can't, learn to use the filters so you don't even have to SEE their posts. Its quite refreshing, knowing they are starving.

5. Be prepared for them to change names and take a fresh run. Learn to use AOL(?) DU search to find out if this NEW troll has ever posted before, or if this new troll is a fungus offshoot of the old troll everyone caught on to. Add these new trolls to the filter list.

6. Like my buddy said, "ignore them or they will keep coming, and coming and coming" ... frankly a bad porno movie is generally more cerebrally stimulating than a troll.

7. If you simply CANNOT stand to not respond on occasions, make your response low calorie. Remember the ignore buttons and pass them out.

Recognizing Flame bait

* If it sounds too stupid to be real, its probably flame bait.
* If it sounds like something meant to make people respond in droves, its probably flame bait.
* If it sounds like the person is too clueless to ever GET IT, they probably are or they are
just tossing out those flamebait gum drops.

Either way, it wastes time responding... you know... pearls before swine?

------------------------------------------
This site has some good idea's too!
http://www.angelfire.com/space/usenet/
This page is a step by step guide to handling a Troll on Usenet, or any other discussion forum on the Internet.
Or, more precisely, it is a step by step guide to beating a Troll at their own game.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:





;)

especially when anything about global warming is posted. In the middle of the working day, you get a sudden flood of anti-global warming posts. It is almost predictable, and happens within minutes of the topic being listed.

After oh about 4 hours, the /. self moderation system kicks in and the highest ranking posts end up as more reasonable and thoughtful.

I've noticed the pattern many times - a post generates an immediate flood of right wing talking points, only to have these moderated down once the "rank and file" get off work.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

The name you mentioned is a poster. You may want to edit that name out so as to comply with DU rules.

Cheers.

Sid

Sounds like 'student recruits'! Maybe? :shrug:
I know there were a bunch of GOP college students doing this
on an AAR site, not long ago and a lot last year!

College GOP Linked To Culture of Corruption
http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/10/college_gop_lin.php
snip-->
"College Republican National Committee Chair Paul Gourley has yet to explain
why his signature appeared on mail pieces used in a fundraising scheme that
bilked senior citizens out of millions of dollars while he was treasurer of
the organization." <--snip


:puke: They're beer swilling pigs!

look at India and the special GMO, vitamin A enriched rice. And, KFC is actually healthy for you because, you know, thigh meat is rich in vitamin B. Those voting machines are accurate, and since there machines they can count a lot faster than humans--we can get the results in no time--as a matter fact, we don't even need to vote because the machines already know who we're going to vote for. And, if you haven't read the 9/11 report by the government, you should quit your tin-foil hatting because it's all explained, right there in black and white. So, how well did I do--may I have a job? May I, pretty please? :rofl:

Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1443519

I wouldn't worry about this, in fact I think it's silly.
DU is probably the most tightly moderated discussion group on the internets.
People are going to disagree, even Democrats/progressives/liberals..lol.. especially Democrats/progressives/liberals.

Just as gay marriage isn't going to turn people gay, paid trolls or plain old trolls aren't going to turn DUers into Republicans.

Hopefully you can argue your point without slinging the "troll" accusation.

What worries me is what if these trolls come here to bait our productive members into arguments that get our good members banned -- has that happened before? And what can our mods do to prevent it?

politics, only their behavior.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

As a newer member who has been accused of trolling for my opinions about Apple and well, frankly, this whole Leopold thing, it's nice to see your wise words written.

I think what I see happening is that, some people think themselves to be 'seasoned troll hunters'. Part of their MO has been to base this accusation on a single rant or a position that a poster takes on a single issue. When accused, I encourage those to "do their research" - search my posts, read my journal, etc. And that, if after they do that, they still question my motives, they should alert on me rather than make a public accusation.

Again, the larger problem in my limited experience, seems to be the "hunters" with their knee-jerk accusations based on a single post or a single position on a single topic. THAT, to me is far more devisive and damaging than the accused's opinions.

Thank you for allowing us "newbies" to have opinions that *GASP* sometimes vary from these seasoned troll hunters.

I know from experience that DU runs a tight ship, and thank heaven for that.

What kills me is more of the same -- deep-pockets right-wingers have an endless supply of cash to throw at controlling everything: business, the media (especially radio), and now the Web, if they're allowed to.

A mercenary army of right-wing trolls can skew reviews at all interactive media sites (Amazon, IMDB, etc.), skew any and all polls, and generally wreak havoc on all progressive blogs -- ever notice how many right wingers are already soiling the cage at HuffingtonPost?

I just want this info to get out into the light, so all parties can be *informed*.

:patriot:

this affects much more than DU.

The Nader forums were full of them. Now they troll the blogosphere.

Suspected? This is Old news to me.

Booga Booga Booga!

(Full credit to Skinner, who locked one of the other troll threads with this inspired bit of wisdom)

Sid

In other words - a GOP operative. Yes, not surprisingly, they are a tool of the Repugs.

Here's an interesting site that exposes some details: http://www.cybersoc.com/2006/05/behind_netvocat.html


Other bloggers who have found themselves visited by NetVocates include:

PSoTD
Make Chai, Not War
CracksInTheFacade
pandora's jar of mixed nuts

What do each of these have in common? Well, based on a very brief visit to each, I'd say they all discuss political issues at least some of the time. On my visits, Pandora's was discussing nuclear power plants in Australia, Cracks most recent post was about American troops in Iraq but the following post had a link to an article about energy, MakeChai describes himself as a "Pakistani American Muslim... human rights and responsibilities advocate..." and PSoTD has a "leftie blog" badge on his site and reckons the netvocate people visited this page about the Al Gore movie. I also just found this guy who posted about Net Neutrality on the day he was visited.

I'm starting to worry...

So who are they? Well, a search of the whois database on network solutions, where they registered their domain name late last year, found that the owners are Griffin Strategy Group, LLC who list an email address at eoutreach.com as their contact and a non-sense contact phone number of 999 999 9999. Searching based on the listed zipcode + "Griffin" I found this page which seamingly ties netvocate to a profile on iKarma for Chip Griffin, Chief Innovation Officer at CustomScoop, a trademark of "eOutreach Solutions, LLC". Which leads me to a biography of Chip who also has his own blog here. Customschoop has actually been featured in TechCrunch and in this post on Micro Persuasion who, I reckon, don't have a clue that Chip is also involved in a company like NetVocates.

So returning to the whole who is Chip Griffin question, a quick google search throws up lots of stuff. He seems to write a lot of stuff of interest to Republican candidates, congressman, etc and his own blog says: "Griffin worked for a variety of politicians, think tanks, and public relations firms in the Washington, D.C. area. In addition, he headed townhall.com, a conservative internet portal." I won't embarrass the guy by telling you he used to be into knifemaking and castle wolfenstien...

So do people out there know that the guy behind NetVocates, a service that watches blogs and message boards then hires "activists and consumers who share the client’s views in order to reinforce those key messages on targeted blogs" is also the guy behind CustomScoop, a service that's getting some kudos in the blogosphere? Somehow I think people haven't noticed - what blogger would talk up a service that has a sister service that, basically, pays people to post comment spam?! There's still some room for a bit of sleuthing around this... have you been visited by NetVocates? What was your content about? Maybe you've been approached to "blog" or "comment" by them? Let's find out more.

They have the formula that stole this country. What exactly are they going to learn here? How to passively sit back and allow people to steal elections???

keep us doing 'busy work', run off some really talented people and to throw an axle in the works if we get too organized.

of trolls.

Many of the members are very active indeed. They write books, organize protests, litigate, appear on media outlets, speak out, gather and distribute facts, work on campaigns, contact elected officials, contribute money, write articles and letters to the editor, do spread sheets, etc.

So, what was your point again?

only point. Perhaps if we had the upper hand and gained either the House or the Senate in 2004, I would accept "paid" trolls in our midst....but not now...we couldn't even replace the most corrupt human being in the history of the congress last week with a Dem....We need to focus on victory and organization and guarding our vote...then I'll worry about paid trolls....

Consensus is to close this thread out now.

Here's the bottom line:

As always, if you feel a poster is disruptive hit "alert". There's posting room on the alert function to provide your input about the post/poster.

The moderators will pick up your alert and take any appropriate action. Our actions are always subject to Administrator review.

This process works really well.

Thanks.