Repubs say "it would be a mistake to withdraw from Iraq now"...

Because it would permit the terrorists to win. Those that would suggest such an idea do not have the foresight or judgement to see what would happen if we "cut and run", they say. Wouldn't it have been nice if they had similar foresight before they went in? Isn't it wonderful that they now are blessed with such foresight but somehow it was missing when they were cheerleading the invasion. They seem to have learned so much in such a short time...

Just buy their "expertise" on these matters. Theyve been right on all their Predictions...And the proof is in the results...er...

you chicken hawks!!!

they'll "cut-and-run" no doubt.

It's sad that many feel our presence in Iraq is more a threat in the Middle East than Iran.

brought to Iraq? Those Terrorists? Let's get the record straight!

Better for the repubs to keep getting our Soldiers killed than admit they made a mistake?

..the MISTAKE was going in to Iraq in the first place!

This has become a "War of Errors".

eom

now that we are, the way i see it is- we broke it, we bought it...we can't just up and leave iraq defensless and much worse off than when we started.

what we SHOULD do- is ask for the u.n. to send peace-keeping troops- which would hopefully be less inflammatory than the u.s. troops...and to that end, we should open up the conquered iraqi oil fields as an initiative to other nations to support the mission.

BUT- since the whole objective of this exercise has been to control iraqi oil...that all ain't gonna happen.

and until it does- we're kinda stuck over there.

I'm for having a plan like what John Murtha and the Democrats have, i'm for withdrawal after the following things happen:

-have the whole government done and working
-Getting there parliament to get along and ready to conduct business
and most importantly...
Having the iraqi troops trained properly to defend there great country againist the terrorist and so forth.

Once this happens we finally set a timetable for withdrawal, set it for six months and slowly withdrawal the troops and slowly give there country back to the iraqis.

Now I don't know about you but that's a damn good plan, just with the repukes would agree with me. But they won't cause they feel we should stay the course and don't be a democrat by "cut and run" well i'm a democrat and i'm not going to cut and run but i will say when we have to say were wrong and move on and that's not cutting and running.

that if they had had such wonderful foresight before we went in, we may not have invaded at all.

zeroing in on the immediate withdrawal....

Supposedly, the party has a plan. If everyone would stop grandstanding and stick to it, the Democrats might get somewhere.

You've got a 4 start general who discusses it consistently and with brevity. For CHRISSAKES, shut everyone up and put Clark out there.

Murtha's plan and there not grandstanding about it either. Don't know where you get your news about that.

The original plan, Real Security...., http://democrats.senate.gov/agenda/real_security/
which Clark was pivotal in putting together, mentions broad aims...but no specifics in terms of timetables, etc.

Iraq

To Honor the Sacrifice of Our Troops, we will:

Ensure 2006 is a year of significant transition to full Iraqi sovereignty, with the Iraqis assuming primary responsibility for securing and governing their country and with the responsible redeployment of U.S. forces. Insist that Iraqis make the political compromises necessary to unite their country and defeat the insurgency; promote regional diplomacy; and strongly encourage our allies and other nations to play a constructive role. Hold the Bush Administration accountable for its manipulated pre-war intelligence, poor planning and contracting abuses that have placed our troops at greater risk and wasted billions of taxpayer dollars.

*****

Congress holds debate over war in Iraq (June 15, 2006)
By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer 6 minutes ago

Congress erupted in impassioned election-year debate over the Iraq war on Thursday, Republicans defending the conflict as key to winning the global struggle against terrorism while Democrats excoriated President Bush and his policies.

(SNIP)

In both the House and Senate, Democrats appear to be divided into three camps. Some want troops to leave Iraq this year. Others object to setting any kind of timetable. A number of them want the United States to start redeploying forces by year's end but don't want to set a date when all troops should be out.

House Democrats are mindful that voting against such a resolution could leave them vulnerable to attacks by Republicans who could claim that Democrats who opposed the resolution don't support U.S. troops and advocate a "cut-and-run" strategy.
To that end, a memo this week by House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, urged his fellow Republicans to frame the debate as "a portrait of contrasts between Republicans and Democrats."

MORE
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060615/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq;_ylt=AtvWf9pPL_c5FGfXjOk2hqms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Murtha's plan is not the "official" plan, none seem to be. Slot the various politicians into one of three slots. It should be easy. It would be even easier if this crew would sit down and get a cohesive message out, based on the realities of troop safety, regional conditions, etc. This latest stuff about getting everybody by the end of 2006 is not realistic at all and is just muddling thing up even more...

So that the mega-wealthy and their Corporations can come in and buy up the entire government at fire-sale prices, thereby privatizing everything. Oppression of the people would be total and automatic.

the military and let everyone else come home.

in Iraq. I suppose the idea is the terrorists are energized thinking we are going to leave and this encourages them to continue recruiting and fighting. repubs are suggesting the insurgency would give up sooner if they though we weren't going to leave. Of course, the repubs never mention that the terrorists wouldn't be in Iraq if we weren't there to begin with.
All of this is bullsh*t. I just hope the public has woke up and see through there tricks.

will probably be saying the same thing (in some form) in 2 years, 5 years, or whenever we do withdraw (which current economic policies will eventually force us to do from many places, a foreseeable circumstance that some isolationists are already anticipating).

And many of them will probably be saying the retrospective equivalent, 10 years, 20 years, and however-many years after we do withdraw.

Never admitting, or having to admit, a serious error is the sort of posture that appeals to the weak, the weak-minded, the pig-headed, the heedless, the completely self-absorbed, the prideful, and the manipulative. Spinning bullshit, ignoring reality, and manipulating people is so much easier than actually confronting reality and dealing with it -- and actually serving the people's, not personal, class, circle or set interests. Besides, if you're one of the elite, you expect that things will go well for you, no matter what. (Although this could turn out to be a mistaken assumption.)

Neocons are children, and they appeal to their followers as though these were children -- with great success.

A lot of people never really grow up. Admittedly, however, this is harder when powerful elites are effectively encouraging and supporting the people in this avoidance.

Besides, the "terrorists" will "win" if we stay, not if we go. Because us staying in Iraq gives them a very tangible, emotional cause (fighting the invading, despoiling, desecrating and defiling Great Satan), it helps them to recruit and gain support, it alienates us from much of the world, and it weakens us militarily, economically and in terms of the popular will to use military force in the future, when doing so makes sense -- and maybe even when it's necessary self-defense. Moreover, once we pull out, the "terrorists" in Iraq will largely be reduced to fighting other Muslims in a transparently sectarian/ethnic/tribal conflict -- and not only will this be obvious to everyone, it will be less appealing to potential fighters.

The "terrorists" want us to stay. And they would love for us to become entangled in other Muslim countries.

"Here... I'll push it in tighter. Let's wait until he heals."

:eyes: