Keep babbling on about Islamofascism and

someone's going to get hurt. In fact, lots of people will. Yesterday in the House, there were numerous mentions of Islamofascism as being this huge threat to humanity and our cult\ure. All you have to do is visit freeperville to know that plenty of people "think" that Islam is an evil cult. Talk from politicians about Islamofascism does nothing but increase the number of people who became paranoid and hateful. Used to be that politicians prefaced their remarks with cautions about how most Muslims are just regular peaceful folks, and how their religion had been hijacked. Yesterday that didn't happen.

All this demonization of Islam is simply going to lead to more hate and to incidents born of that hate.

the minscape necessary for widescreen tunnelvision and rapacious plundering of the common good.... could be... the level of hate expressed on FR. And remember, hate is nothing more than fear turned inside out.

...making the rest of the world think that Islam is an evil cult is exactly what the hijackers of the religion want. The only thing Wahabbi's hate more than the Western World is the moderate Muslim communities that still intergrate with it.

And right-wing outlets of propaganda - such as Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter - who attempt to condense the entire faith into one monolithic force of antisemitic, antiwestern bile - are playing right into the hands of the Wahabbi.

I agree about the Coulters and the Malkins, but I think that politicians are also, if sometimes inadvertenly, doing the same thing and playing into the hands of the small number of people who are trying to hijack Islam. I'm not sure that's all Wahabis, despite the very strict fundamentalilsm they practice.

I know there is another Sunni sect, but I can never remember their name. And the Shia of Iran have really cracked down on Sufis lately; they bulldozed down a teacher's center and arrested about a thousand of his students, who had come to non-violently protest the destruction of the center. Hundreds were detained, and some 200 are still in custody. Several who were released said they were tortured.

I hadn't seen that on anything other than the mek site iranfocus.com

to Islam, painting with broad brushed only gives you a blurry picture.

Islam, more than most western religions, is a highly individualized affair...

Islam a more individualized affair than most western religions?

Although it is a requirement to pray regularly every day, there is no requirement to attend a mosque to do so; one can pray anywhere. Qur'an teaches that each person is responsible for their own action, their own salvation/condemnation--no need of a priest to intervene. In Sufi orders, your connection is with your teacher or guide. That person is not considered holy, like a guru-just someone who is there to help you along your way. The practices given to you are individualized-what I do for my morning practices aren't the same things my husband does, for example.

since the 'doctrine' is 'fixed' in the Koran there are no priests, preachers, Popes, etc...

Instead, some people have, or claim the ability to teach...

Mosques can be highly individualized in nature... In most countries here they have an Islamic Ministry just to take care of simple things (such as when is the first day of Ramadan)...

One's 'radicalism' would be more a measure of which mosque do you attend regularly then which 'sect' you belong to.

For example, you might find a group/mosque of peaceful pacifistic Wahabbis and in the same town mainstream Sunni mosque which might be fomenting radical Jihad.


One strange note: I went to see "The Omen" last night with some friends and a good portion of the audience were Wahabbi men and women... :wtf: I found that a little strange...

and welcome to DU! As a Sufi initiate, I can tell you that my brothers and sisters are being persecuted in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran. There Sufis are accused of siding with the West-many Sufi orders, if not most, are international in scope, having initiates in Western as well as Eastern countries, and so they are looked on with suspician by the Wahabbists who cite the intolerant words of so many neocons in the US. If Sufis, a most tolerant sect of Islam, are silenced, their shrines destroyed, their teachers killed, it will be because the Wahabbists have been aided and abetted by the neocons here, imho.

influence is largely a hangover from colonialism where the British and other colonial powere ENCOURAGED fundamentalism against what they saw as a dangerous and agressive form of Sufism which asserted nationalism... Most of the uprising in the Muslim world in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th century were led by Sufis...

I belong to a Turkish Sufi order headquartered in Istanbul, and I've heard tales about them....

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

keep the general public scared and compliant.

Whilst freepers foam at the mouth and support W's wars and ME jihadis rant about the "zionists" the elites from both sides (Western and Wahhabi) do hundred billion dollar business deals.

on edit: changed American to Western as Blair and a few others use similar tactics.

else is ultimately a pawn in that game...

isn't religion; it's greed.

I can't find it right now, but I heard that there is a hadith (saying of the Prophet) where Mohammed (pbuh)said the greatest threat to Islam would come from within its own ranks. The Beloved Prophet was right.

KJV: And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Always good to read your gentle and enlighting post ayeshahaqqiqa :hi:

Thank you for giving me the New Testament citation. And my very best regards to you-thanks for your kind words!

These people are Judeo-Christian-fascists, and they are picking on Islamofascists. I guess they don't want more competition on the block, do they?

I work in a very multicultural school with about 75 different languages spoken. Many of my students come from the middle east. Their families left because of many reasons, one being the inflammatory form of islam (fundamentalist, Islamofascist extremists) and emigrate to America to escape that for them and their children.

I have a great respect for Islam, but unfortunately, especially after talking to many of these students and their families, Islamofacism has taken root and hijacked their religion. As much as we don't like to admit it, that form of fundamentalism is insane, irrational and a great threat to freedom there and anywhere it spreads.

I feel the same way about Jewish and Christian fundamentalism. This illogical form of tribal thinking is probably the biggest threat to our planet, because the sides are drawn.

The naive of the left is almost staggering when faced with the dangers of Islamofascism. The ideal of living in a peaceful world is admirable but it must be tempered with a dose of reality. This belief system is nihilistic and cancerous in that it seeks only to dominate and destroy that which is not it. I think we need to wake up on this issue.

why does the US do multi-bullion dollar business deals with Middle-East monarchies and autocracies and attacked Iraq which was a secular country which cracked down on fundamentalism?

Why did the countries which have links to 9/11 suffer no repercussions yet Iraq was attacked which had nothing to do with 9/11?

Islamofascism is a smokescreen, there is no united islamic threat (as I've mentioned above most of the islamic autocracies are allies and business partners to Bushco). The neocons are just trying to replace Cold War fear with a new threat but it's a hollow one.

that there isn't incredible hypocrisy among our government officials. ONe does not exclude the other. Just because the Bush government is corrupt and in bed with the Saudi's, does not mean that islamofascism isn't a reality.

Just because the Bush cabal is using "islamofascism" as their scapegoat does not mean we ignore it or do not criticize it for being the irrational belief system that it is. Mind you I am not referring to Islam as a whole. The same criticism applies to fundamentalist Christians and Jews. But they are not strapping bombs to themselves and killing innocent people. At least not yet.

in that their are muslim countries that have bad human rights records and are dictatorial. I also agree that there are dangerous islamic fundamemtalists who want to kill their perceived enemies.

What I disagree with is the idea that this somehow poses a vast threat to Western Civilization.
Except in Iraq which B*shco turned into a warzone for no valid reason, muslim terrorists belong to very small cells and are generally either pariahs in their own country or heavily cracked down upon by their governments. This is not a threat the size of the USSR which had vast standing armies and a nuclear arsenal.

I think Bush has whacke the proverbial hornets nest. I also think that this is part of the grand plan. To antagonize and fuel the extremists hatred of us so we have a boogie man.

But we can't ignore the Cole, the embassy bombings, both trade center attacks etc..

I would go so far to say that this is part of the plan Bush has arranged with Saudi Arabia. As long as we have a defined enemy, even though much of it has been created by our own actions, we can then justify the continual use of force in that area.

My main point is that Fundamentalism everywhere is a big problem, but it is especially dangerous in this region because these desperate, poor and brainwashed people don't care who they take with them.

I have compassion for them, but I cannot ignore the danger that they pose.

is fascistic?

radical religions often meet most if not all of them.
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
But for a preview
1. extreme nationalism or in this case extreme religiousity
2. Disdain for human rights
3. Identification of scapegoats (Jews, the West, modern civilization)
4. Supremacy of the military...these are military groups where violence against the "other" is encouraged.
5. Rampant sexism...no brainer
6. Religion and government are enmeshed
7. disdain for intellectualism and the arts.
8. Obsession with crime and punishment

Need I go on?

that moderate/progressive Muslims in the Middle East are not supported in any way by US policies. Sufis cannot meet in Saudi Arabia, I've heard; I know that their shrines have been bulldozed. The US said nothing, lodged no protests, when this occurred.

(And I'm particularly fond of Huxley quotes; he was a friend and mentor of my dad's and did my chart when I was born.)

that he was lying about the Jews, Catholics, gypsies, communists and trade unionists.

Regarding religious fundamental extremists, you cannot apply the same rhetoric because they are a danger, not only to the region but also to us, eventually.

That's right. It's wrong when Hitler did it. It's right when the U.S. does it.

Or can we only say that about christians?

All this christian bashing will lead to more hate and incidents born of hate.

Yeah, this is a sarcastic post. Just not sure why many see no problem with trashing christians and their beliefs but when we start on islam it is hate or promoting hate. We are just educating people to the dangers is all....

you said "many followers are dangerous and wacky" whereas the neocons and fundamentalist Christians replace "many" with "all".

I have no problem with people voicing their concerns about religious extremists of any stripe. I do have a problem with people who lump every follower of a religion in the same extremist group (which you didn't do). It is very interesting to note that the people who tend to do this are the extremist religious fundatmentalists of any faith.

or I didn't make myself clear. I was specifically thinking of the ranting that goes on by House and Senate members about Islamofascism. I don't think it's a useful term, and I do think it fosters hate toward Muslim. I'm concerned that it will lead to acts of violence against Muslims. I have no problem with people wanting to discuss the detrimental aspects of religion, be it Islam, Christianity or any other religion.

If you don't think that islamic fascism is alive and ready you are a fool