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What do you think really happened with Fitz and Rove?

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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:47 AM
Original message
Poll question: What do you think really happened with Fitz and Rove?
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 12:31 PM by garybeck
This is all speculation. Just trying to get a feel for what people are thinking.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. .
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. but what does it mean when you bite out the eyes first....
and scream "stop staring at me!"...?
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. "Probably the toughest time in anyone's life ...
... is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the Devil."
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. "...Die, heretic!"
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 02:53 PM by QuestionAll
and i pushed him off the bridge.

btw- have you seen emo lately...?
it's really weird- he looks like a normal guy..but the voice is still the same.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Haven't seen him on stage, but yes on the latest CD cover.
Normal haircut, but still the goofy delivery.

My favorite joke from that disk:

My German friend complains that he can't get a good bagel back home. I said, "Well, who's fault is that?"
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. None of the above. I believe that Fitz is working for the
administration. They appointed him and they could have cut him off if they had been worried.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. After all this time
w/so little results, I am beginning to think the same.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. He is beginning to look like the "Arlen Specter" of the grand
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 10:26 PM by ladjf
jury investigators. The fact that he wasn't having any "plane crashes","suicides" or gotten fired worried me. Bush and Cheney would have never just sat around and allowed him to collapse the administration. I do think that the CIA was trying to do Bush and Cheney "in". But, the prosecutor headed that off. He had right in his hands, the power to stop this whole administration. We will never know why he chose not to do so.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Oh, we will know why
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
57. What leads you to believe that we will learn the "whys" of this
investigation?
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Paying attention to this administration for the past five 1/2 years
Someone in the admin fucks up - they get a medal. There is no accountablity.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
51. READ "9/11 COVERUP" BY PETER LANCE!! A MUST READ N/T
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. poppy came by and did the lizard-being shapeshifter thing...
one thing i'm not clear on though- would he have done it just for fitzgerald, or in front of the whole grand jury?

from what i've been told- it's a pretty terrifying spectacle.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Or did Cheney do the Locutus of Borg thing?
Either way it's the same.
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Skarbrowe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Hey! A David Icke reader!! That guy writes some sceeery books! And..
I love reading them. Kinda changed my whole world view even though I was like..what the heck is he talking about??
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. and to think...
i used to consider him a whacked-out fantasy-fiction writer.
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Skarbrowe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
50. All I can say is that David Icke makes me think of all the things that
could be possible. What is it?? M Theory? Parallel universes, with some possibly bleeding into others that I keep hearing about on the Science Channel. It does make you think that something else could be going on just a different frequency/vibration away.

Must admit that I really don't know enough to talk about this, so I'll stop now. :) I have read all of his books, though. Can't seem to help myself.

Sorry for the thread drift.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Someone here asked a great question yesterday.
Why the need for a letter, if Rove was never a target?

I think there's a lot more to this than we know, there are a lot of sealed filings, the contents of which are likely very juicy. I don't think this is over by a long shot, regardless of what some attorney may say. Attorneys lie all the time, they aren't supposed to but it happens every day.
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Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think Rove flipped. Don't know about Cheney though. /nt
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. sexual favors
my guess.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. LOL! nt
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. It would be anything but a favor ...
...if Rove was involved.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. I Think Grand Juries Indict
there is no option for the grand jury wasn't going to indict
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. do you mean
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 12:33 PM by garybeck
Fitz wanted to indict but the GJ said no?

Never heard anyone suggest that, but I guess it's a possibility. I just added the option for you.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. Yes
if they didn't want to, or feel there was reason to?
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think Fitz could not make a good enough case and let him go.
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 12:11 PM by annces8
I hope Fitz is going after Cheney. Anyway they should all be guilty in the public opinion as everyone knows Libby works for Cheney and Bush lied about finding the leaker. Repubamerica does not care. What else would they tolerate? Lockstep with crinimals.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't believe that Fitz has JUST figured out that he can't nail Rove
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 12:23 PM by rocknation
Rove's non-indictment is either a "reward" from Fitz for giving him enough ammunition to take a shot at Cheney with (if you'll pardon the expression), or he knows that Rove will be incriminated by Libby's trial.

:headbang:
rocknation
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Other: Rove squealed enough to throw Libby alone under the bus
Libby will, if convicted, stay out on appeal. Monkey will pardon him as he's going out the door.

Sorta like Cap Weinberger, but with a trial....
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Libby was already under the bus, already indicted.
i'm sure Fitz had enough on Libby to feel confident about a conviction when he indicted him. if Rove's testimony made that possible, why did he have to testify more after Libby's indictment, and why would he be "letting him go" now?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Sure, but who can resist the icing on the cake?
Rove works for the Monkey; Libby's job was actually TWO jobs--he worked for Deadeye, and he worked for Monkey. Dual chain of command. Rove perhaps wanted to make it clear that Libby was lead dog in this effort, that he was peripheral and unclear on Plame's status (yeah, sure), and either he did that, or Fitzgerald is holding his fire for now.

Only one person really knows the full story...Fitzgerald.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. They developed a deep and unbreakable love
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 12:52 PM by dave29
that transcends politics and law.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. the "Rove squealed" scenario is winning. Is this wishful thinking?
Are people's votes on this more about logically and rationally evaluating what we know, or is more of a visceral reaction of hope?
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. big time
BTW I voted

Perjury is very hard to prove. Fitz thought he had enough to indict but not convict so he let him go.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. No need to speculate. Truthout will soon fill us in.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. LOL! I suppose you're referring to
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 01:00 PM by garybeck
that Monday "more complete information" reference made by TO? Don't count on much more useful information. I think they're just looking for a way to weasel out of this and save face.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Fitzgerald wants that Supreme Court nomination Rove promised...
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 01:00 PM by LaPera
Rove probably said he'd make sure Fitzgerald gets it before Jan 2009 or right after, when Jebbie steals the 2008 election to make sure the power stays in the family and to keep the fascist agenda continuing to move right along - full steam ahead!!!
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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. I am unsettled by Fitz's actions
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 01:07 PM by zippy890
I am not prone to conspiracy theories at all. But something about this business with Rove and especially the timing of it (Rove free to gear up campaigns), the nature of it -the letter sent by Fitz to Luskin, quite unusual I understand.

I don't know, really, its just unsettling - Fitzgerald decided not to indict, when and how he did it.- more questions than answers

edited grammar

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Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. I have a feeling the grand jury investigation will end
without any indictments. They are really close to wrapping it up as we speak, from the sound of things.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. You forgot an option.
namely, that the DOJ hamstrung Fitz, but the Grand Jury "ran away" and served up indictments (actually, "presentations" in this case, see the 5th amendment) against Rove (Cheney?) on their own, and the judge then sealed it. Hence "sealed v. sealed". (i.e., "Grand Jury for the District of Washington D.C. vs. Karl Rove")

:evilgrin:

http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/2006/06/randall-samborn-indicates-fitzgeralds.html

Grand Juries are effectively the 4th branch of government, you know; at least so says Scalia:

"Rooted in long centuries of Anglo-American history," ... the grand jury is mentioned in the Bill of Rights, but not in the body of the Constitution. It has not been textually assigned, therefore, to any of the branches described in the first three Articles. It "`is a constitutional fixture in its own right.'" ... In fact, the whole theory of its function is that it belongs to no branch of the institutional Government, serving as a kind of buffer or referee between the Government and the people. ... Although the grand jury normally operates, of course, in the courthouse and under judicial auspices, its institutional relationship with the Judicial Branch has traditionally been, so to speak, at arm's length. Judges' direct involvement in the functioning of the grand jury has generally been confined to the constitutive one of calling the grand jurors together and administering their oaths of office.


:evilgrin: :evilgrin:
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
59. Fed grand juries can't indict without prosecutor's approval & signature.
Appeals court ruling determining that has not been overturned by the SCOTUS, which means the lower court ruling stands: no indictment by fed grand jury without prosecutor's approval and signature.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/206542.htm#IF3
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00217.htm
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. I think there is a sealed indictment, and
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 01:40 PM by DemReadingDU
Edit to add: Rove squealed, and Fitz is after Cheney.

if there are any unexpected developments, Fitz will seek criminal charges against Rove, and unseal the indictment.

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CitizenBat Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. I agree with this...
Posted by DemReadingDU

I think there is a sealed indictment, and
if there are any unexpected developments, Fitz will seek criminal charges against Rove, and unseal the indictment.




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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. Fitz might be interested in staying alive.
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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
60. Exactly How I Feel
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. The Letter Was From Gonzales TO Fitz AND Luskin, Declaring Rove Off-Limits
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. What letter?
Or was it a fax?

Or just a friendly phone call?

The M$M has reported assorted versions of this story.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Uh, what legal standing would such a letter have?
do you subscribe to the "sealed vs. sealed" is gonzo vs. fitz?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Gonzales's Job Is To Make Whatever the BFEE Does Legal
Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 06:05 PM by AndyTiedye
Maybe sealed-vs-sealed is a sealed pardon.
If Gonzales can't shut Fitz down, ** certainly can.

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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. don't you think
all the "talk" is that Fitz is a reall bulldog, goes after the truth, etc... if that's really true, and Gonz tried to shut him up, do you think he would take it lying down?

i think of Ken Starr and how he was always making public statments. I would think (hope?) that if Fitz was "quieted" by Gonz, that he would come out to the public and let everyone know.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I Sure Would Like To Hear The Sweet Sweet Sounds of Karl Rove Singing
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. kick for more votes
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guinivere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
41. I don't know. I wish I did.
*sigh*



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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
42. I think rove wanted kids, but fitz just wasn't ready to commit...
so goes ritz... or is it fove? perhaps rovegerald?
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
44. Cheney is the VP, Rove is merely a pawn on the board in the power scheme
I sure hope democracy survives these men.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
49. Bushco managed to make Fitz a deal he couldn't refuse
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
52. I'm voting lack of evidence, but really my brain hurts & I don't know
And neither do you. I'm guessing Fitz isn't too torn up about not indicting a fellow Republican, but my read on the guy is that if he had a doable case he'd've gone for it. But like everyone else in this thread, I'm just going on wishful thinking and a touch of well earned cynicism at this point.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
53. I just think they fell in love. That's why Fitz called Rove in 5 times.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
54. I never made it past Algebra II
This stuff hurts my head.
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Kenergy Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
55. imo, Fitz was bought off n/t
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
56. Rove has joined
the bleedin' choir unindictable.

I think that Cheney will not take kindly to this,
and seeing as he shoots his friends with a shotgun,
I see the recent gift of an upscale rifle to Karl Rove
as an omninous note.
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