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Why did Bush REALLY create the Hawaiian Islands Nat'l Monument?

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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:27 AM
Original message
Why did Bush REALLY create the Hawaiian Islands Nat'l Monument?
He's never done or agreed to anything in his life that didn't help numero uno and I don't see what this does for him.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. Three words: An Inconvenient Truth n/t
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I thought this has been in the works
for quite a while, while AIT just came out? I remember reading about it in his first term.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Chicago Trib editorial today mentions that
the Governor of Hawaii at the time talked Clinton out of it because of the effect on the fishing industry.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. Does it injure a Democratic constituency?
Does it allow a cover for devious national security activities?

Is it a worthless empty gesture (like sending a man to Mars)?

Does it give him an excuse to hang out on a tropical beach and drink?
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. Must negate Al Gore, Must Negate Al Gore, Must Negate Al Gore
Making this a national monument only involves compensating 8 fishing families, it can be done on
the cheap, it is remote, inaccessible, so that's it's not going to cost anything to patrol,
the only ones going there will be researchers and scientists and the natives who consider this
area their heritage will be excluded.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. Find out who owns the land next to it. Bet they contribute to GOP
and plan a resort soon. The rich and speculative like to have national monuments next to their property. That way, their lands increase in value, the monument basically becomes an addition to the land they develop. They get to build expensive homes, hotels, golf courses with lovely views that won't be spoiled. BIG selling point.

As always, wanna know why they did something... follow the money.

Lots of big resort development going on adjacent to federal land here in Montana. Interesting, the parts of national forests being sold off seem to work in developers favor.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Let me suggest
that you take a look at a map. Your theory just doesn't have any basis in reality. The area in question is some 1400 miles long and encompasses small unihabitable islands and atolls. It couldn't ever be developed. It's overwhelmingly simply ocean. The reason bush did this is clear and other posters have referenced it: He needs to create the illusion that he cares about the environment.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks for that. I suggested finding out about land ownership
cuz I am not familiar with our newest state. Am familiar with what GOP supporting rich developers have been up to in Montana and AZ.

Also, re the no land around thing: ever look at aerial pics of new homes for the rich and famous located off the coast of Dubai? Three words: Man Made Islands
Admittedly, I know nada about the geology of the area in Hawaii, but I don't put anything past land developers. Some of them actually do 'develop land' where water used to be.

While I am aware bushco makes a lot of token gestures, I also know they are funded by a lot of very wealthy people who engage in long term planning. Put nothing past them.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Jeb does the same thing in FL
He'll fund some project in the Everglades and make a big deal about it, while he passes 10 other laws that take back more then he gave.

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Don't the do a lot of land draining in FL?
Ya know, make land to build on where there used to be water?

Sorta my point
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. They call it wetland mitigation
So the developers can devolop wetlands as long as they build a drainage ditch somewhere else.

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. At least it give Carl Hiaasen some good plot ideas
and shows that developers are not really stymied by some water ;)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. What you're proferring doesn't make
any sense. The pacific is not a protected body of water the way that the gulf off of Dubai is. Even if it were, by making this area- one that's about the size of the Great Baririer reef, a protected federal monument, commercial activities are verboten. I do know the area bush is protecting; I've sailed there, and honestly it's absurd to try and make this into one of those bush is feeding his rich cronies scenario. It's a cynical ploy to burnish his environmental creds and handy for future repub candidates. Not all bullshit is motivated directly by money.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Not all bullshit is motivated directly by money
No, a goodly portion takes a circuitous route.

Where bushco is involved, money of protection of money, of sleight of hand to distract while they are involved in enterprise to make money is a good guess.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. Davis &Miss Waverly: Are you basically suggesting the same thing?
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. Simple: No oil there; lots of oil in currently protected US coastland
By creating this monument, it will be much easier to remove protections from coastlands in the Gulf of Mexico and along the west coast, which have very rich oil deposits.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's an interesting angle.
He can leave office claiming a net gain in protected land.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. While appeasing the environmentalists and other lefties
This is a win-win scenario for the Junta, no question.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Always thought that was the point of opening ANWR to drilling too
Not much oil there, but it creates a sort of momentum for development in areas that were off limits due to delicate environmental concerns. Makes it easier to sell offshore drilling if they break down barriers to messin with certain national treasures.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. There's GOT to be some profit to be made under the BFEE umbrella



somewhere. It is totally uncharacteristic for Boosh and the rethug party to do something like this.






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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. There is no oil in Hawaii so he could do this and say see what I did
Publicity stunt and nothing more.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
18. There's profit in it somehow, someway for one of *'s cronies
Oh yeah....the possibilities are endless. :mad:

It really goes without saying-but I will anyway-that * did NOT do it because he loves nature and cares about the planet. :grr:
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. Akaka Bill? Hawaiian nationalism?
Trying to federalize as much of the area as possible before the Native Hawaiians demand it back? Consolidating administrative power in the region?

I'm not too informed but that would be my guess.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. Arianna Huffington offered this as explanation on Friday...
Remember how he was finally moved to action on Katrina only after Dan Bartlett put together a DVD compilation of the horrors in New Orleans? Now comes word that Bush was inspired to create the world's largest marine protected area after watching a private White House screening of Voyage to Kure, a PBS documentary on the dangers facing the area's endangered marine life made by Jean-Michel Cousteau, Jacques Cousteau's son.

The presidential order is the single biggest act of conservation in U.S. history, creating the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands National Monument, a marine preserve larger than all of America's national parks combined.

...snipped...

After all, Bush has never hesitated to put short-term business interests above long-term environmental concerns. And, true to form, his administration had originally planned to roll back the limited protections for the Pacific Ocean area put in place by President Clinton. But, after watching the Cousteau film, Bush suddenly started channeling Julia Butterfly Hill. From the L.A. Times:

The film seemed to catch Bush's imagination, according to senior officials and others in attendance. The president popped up from his front-row seat after the screening; congratulated filmmaker Jean-Michel Cousteau... and urged the White House staff to get moving on protecting these waters.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/announcing-the-first-annu_b_23092.html

However much I would like to think he could be swayed to be a 'good doer', I agree that if he can make some money doing this for himself or his cabal, he would.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. So * sat in the dark,, watched a visually stimulating film, had an acid
flashback, and demanded we create the the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands National Monument. That may be one of the more feasible explanations yet...
:hippie:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. YES - Now, if we can just get him to watch
An Inconvenient Truth...
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. And somebody please hand him a bag of pretzels to munch on.



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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. HA!
:rofl:
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
22. So he can drill in the ANWR
Rove thinks this makes him immune from criticism.
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sbj405 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. Plans for this have been in the works for over 6 years
A lot of people worked hard for the designation. Bush simply showed up at a press conference.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. A restricted vacation site for his Pioneer donors? n/t
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