DLC think tanker supports Bush's warrantless domestic spying

Wow, I'm slipping...the yahoo story was from Wednesday.

At any rate David Sirota writes about comments by Marshall Wittman on Wittman's blog. Marshall is a former Republican and now a DLC intellectual.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/012692

<snip>
Throughout all of this, the media and insulated elitists in the political chattering classes have obediently portrayed the controversy in "he said, she said" terms, or terms that simply justify law-breaking. As the President promises to continue breaking the law, Katie Couric banters back and forth with Tim Russert about how the only people who care about this are "constitutional scholars" – not the American people. Bloviators like William Kristol write fawning congratulations to President Bush for trampling the constitution, and go on Fox News demanding to know why President Bill Clinton hadn't trampled the Constitution when he was in office. And the Democratic Leadership Council, undermining congressional Democrats who are courageously raising questions, actually says Bush' law-breaking is entirely justified, even though we haven't been given one justification that holds water.
<snip>
. . . . . . .

I am going to bookmark this one for any further debates about this.

And Marshall Wittman as a "democratic" think tanker not only writes such shit, his ends up being used by media looking for democratic commentary.

Holy stinking skunk inside the tent!

where I read this or if it was in a documentary I saw but apparently when Bush came to town a lot of real republicans left the party and they're now calling themselves democrats. They still believe in the republican platform(s) but don't like the Bush neocon way. :shrug:

...whom do these guys think they are kidding with this bull?

:puke:

It's not difficult to paint that as acquiesence to Wittman's comments.

once one reaches a certain obscene income level, it would seem...

In the Crony Corps.

Just wondering.

Namely, support Bush, never impeach him or oppose the war, give corporations everything, and never ever go against the media or DC establishment. THESE are dogmatic. ALL other Democratic or American principles are not, and are instead open for obfuscation or sacrifice. All who oppose their Wormtongue dogma are the enemy, not the opposing party, not criminal traitors, not terrorists. And the dumber and more puerile the center right posing on "issues" the better.

And their names are specific and limited, although their influence on the party is pervasive and pernicious and unquestionably negative. From, Luntz, the guy quoted above, several other and various advisers so
corrupted by the dogma they think this is the way to win elections too.

Among the latter are many former Clinton/Gore campaign advisers, now with a very spotty track record because Bill does not carry their swampwater anymore. It was never their genius, only Clinton himself and the GOP vulnerability of that time. Clinton did a lot of selling out to make the prosperity that should have insured his invulnerability by their dogma. It only worked for him. All around him, including the prosperity, was dismantled. The vaunted DLC, the "winning" advisers, what does it take to make them go away? Just look at Hillary's presidential debacle, which, thank God, does not threaten her Senate seat yet. A flawed candidate beset by truly suicidal advice she has chosen as firmly as she placed faith in Colin Powell on Iraq WMD fairy tales..

I hope for whatever reason these types have hitched their chains to Bush's falling star and go down with him. Hopefully before him since they stand directly in the way.

at least in part.

Mind if I use it in the future? Captures everything about these Quisling apologists for Corporatism, Imperialism, Oligarchy.

It makes it much easier when the time comes to round up and try the collaborators.

Someone needs to fax them a copy of the Constitution.

Says basically what you just did. I hate the DLC, they are the worst thing to ever happen to us. Co opting our agenda for Republican lite.

Good God that man is a horror! I think it is crystal clear what the DLC is up to and who they are. I always stop and think, why isn't there an RLC?

http://www.workingforchange.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=ED439E22-F844-3D5A-2C4CE72F2CA1A3FE

DLC slanders Murtha/Pelosi as "surrendering" on Iraq
The Democratic Leadership Council has really gone over the line. In today's Washington Post, their staffer Marshall Wittman - who used to be a Republican operative and top official at the Christian Coalition - said that Democrats who are pushing for an exit strategy from Iraq are "offering surrender." This is an organization that continues to say it wants to "help" Democrats - but as we can see, they aren't interested in anything like that.
The Post quoted me responding to Wittman. I said, "It is not surprising that a bunch of insulated elitists in the Washington establishment -- most of whom have never served in uniform -- would stab the Democratic Party in the back and attack the courage of people like Vietnam War hero Jack Murtha and Nancy Pelosi for their stand on Iraq."

UPDATE: The DLC's Ed Kilgore, not surprisingly, feigns disbelief that anyone would think Wittman was regurgitating the right-wing talking points he learned how to regurgitate so well as a GOP operative. Here's what's wrong with what Wittman said, Ed - it's not that hard to understand. Wittman, like dishonest right-wing pundits/politicians, characterized a plan to withdraw from Iraq as "offering surrender." It is nothing of the sort - and characterizing it that way is disgusting and dishonest, especially from someone who now purports to speak, at least in part, for Democrats.

Makes you want to pull your hair out.

We need a campaign to marginalize those traitorous bastards.

But it is becoming increasingly clear that the DLC is just a bunch of moles who's purpose is to undermine the Democratic Party.

I was reading the Al Franken book about how Karl Rove was attacking the Democrats for being nothing but attack dogs (quite ironical). So as a response, the Democrats cowed themselves and REFUSED to attack GW Bush during the convention.

The old saying goes "Don't change horses midstream". Republicans never said this publicly. And certainly the allusion to the "Wag the Dog" campaign slogans makes it seem lame. But if you don't point out that the horse in question is lame, plague infected, and heading off a cliff than why change???

All along it seems like the Democrats just keep playing into all of Rove's plays. They act like pussies so they will not be attacked like Cynthia McKinney, but they are attacked ANYWAY, just in different ways.

Democrats, stop acting like pussies. Get rid of this sham organization called the DLC. Howard Dean, keep your balls and run a 2006 congressional campaign on an impeachment platform. The Republican congress is nothing but a rubber stamp for the White House. You have to make the case that GW Bush MUST be removed before he ceases even more unchecked power.

Russ Feingold, run and win in 2008. You are the one who has been consistent all along. You were right about NAFTA, you were right about the Patriot act. The Republicans are trying to fake us out again saying that they are afraid of Hillary Clinton (like they did with John Kerry when they were REALLY afraid of Howard Dean). The person they are REALLY afraid of is RUSS FEINGOLD!!!!

And Russ, be really careful about who you fly with. They took out Paul Wellstone for the very same reasons that would make you such a great political candidate.

it's like with Al Sharpton. He went away from the speech he gave McAullife (who was DLC). I also remember reading last year an article that was an interview with Kerry's ex-wife Julia. I didn't save it so sorry. But in the article she said how Kerry wanted to go after the SBVT guys but the DNC (with McAullife) said no and he couldn't go after them. I think this next election the campaigning will be a lot better with Dean as chairman. He knows how it goes.

party and see a non vote for a DLCer as being against the party. I don't see it that way. Voting DLC is against my Democratic values.

gentler repuke

working for them as a spokesman or something like that who is a republican and used to work for McCain or someone like that? What is he doing at a supposivley democratic think tank? :shrug:

McCain's staff was probably the closest his resume ever got to "centrism" before the DLC. Everything else was religious reich extremism.

is the whole corporation deal and I think that's why they're so republican-lite as a group. Individual people I look at their personal records. I really like Mark Warner and I think he's DLC and I am a full on supporter of John Kerry even though I've heard he hasn't been fully affiliated with the group since 2003 and hasn't been to meetings or anything. :shrug: I think it is important to have a place where everyone can go to and the thing I love about being a democrat is there are so many different types of democrats from hard-core liberals like myself to more moderate/conservative types. We're all not lock and step and I love that about us as a group. We can all speak our minds without being feared of being kicked out of the group.

DLC is a republican front organization pretending to be dem so they can take over the party from the inside out. Great ONE party that's all we need .:banghead:

John Kerry for example is listed as DLC but as stated in my previous post I've read another Kerry supporter said he hasn't been to a meeting or affiliated with the group since 2003 and they have him still listed. :shrug: If you look at Kerry's voting record he's pretty progressive compared to some others and I really like Mark Warner and I think he did a lot of great things in Virginia and I think he wouldn't be a bad presidential canidate and am starting to like him.

:grr:

Clearly there is work to be done in the party to marginalize the role of the DLC.
We need to make sure there are Democratic alternatives running in the primaries. No DLC'er supporting views like Marshall's should go unchallenged.

and it was not worth the fact that I helped start 8 years of GWBush. Most 2000 third party supporters would agree with me.

Current PNAC members were proteges of Henry (*'Scoop”) Jackson and Daniel Patrick (“Pat”) Moynihan

“…look at the 1970s, when the neo-conservatives in the Democratic Party grouped themselves into the Coalition for a Democratic Majority (CDM). The CDM's two leading lights in Congress were the Democratic Senators Henry "Scoop" Jackson and Patrick Moynihan. The Cold Warrior and fanatically pro-Israel Jackson remains the model for the DLC crowd today. The DLC's former President, Sen. Joe Lieberman declares he is proud to be identified as a " 'Scoop' Jackson Democrat." It was these two Senators' offices that housed the Leo Straussian "Children of Satan" behind the no-exit Iraq War.

From Jackson's staff came:

* Paul Wolfowitz, now Deputy Secretary of Defense and a leading
Straussian chicken-hawk;

* Richard Perle (on Jackson's staff from 1969 until going into
the Defense Department in 1981), and until his recent forced
resignation, chairman of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board. It
is reported that Perle maintains Democratic Party membership
to this day, out of fealty to Scoop. Perle later brought along
Doug Feith, now Rumsfeld's Undersecretary for Policy, who has
been a Perle "groupie" since the late 1970s, largely due to
Feith's family background deep in the terrorist movement
founded by Zionist fascist Vladimir Jabotinsky. In the 1980s,
Feith financed Perle through the International Advisers Inc.,
a firm in which Feith was the only stockholder;

* Frank Gaffney, who heads the Center for Security Policy, a
"private" neo-con group which cheerleads for imperial wars and
brutally anti-Palestinian policies;

From Moynihan's office came:

* Elliott Abrams, an Iran/Contra convict who now tries to shape
Administration Middle East policy from the National Security
Council staff;

* Abram Shulsky, who heads the Office of Special Plans under
Feith in the Pentagon, which concocted fraudulent intelligence
estimates used by the Administration to justify the Iraq War;

* Gary Schmitt, the head of the empire-promoting Project for a
New American Century and a close collaborator of Shulsky.
Schmitt worked under Roy Godson of the National Strategy
Information Center in the early 1980s. Anti-LaRouche operative
Godson was active in the CDM in the 1970s, narrowly escaped
prosecution in the Iran-Contra scandals of the 1980s, and now
is a consultant to Feith and Shulsky's Office of Special
Plans.


http://www.leftgatekeepers.com/articles/MissingLinkHowRightWingNeoConsCreatedDemocraticLeadershipCouncilByMicheleSteinberg.htm

LunaC, This should be its own post. If you haven't done so already, please post this on its own. Tia.

I was pretty shocked to discover the connection. Now I have a better understanding of Lieberman - he's from the Democratic branch of PNAC.

check out the film "The War Party." In this film it touches on why the neocons are pro-Israel which is probably why Lieberman is associated with them. It's all about oil, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Isn't Joe Biden a PNACer? I thought I saw his name on the list. Oh and you can see the film I mentioned at informationclearinghouse.info

Well, if you were a fascist seeking total control isn't that what you'd do?

Really - I think the neo-cons/neo/liberals have hijacked both parties. Some Conservative Republicans - wanting a smaller gov't have been among their worst critics. There aren't any real Democrats AFAIC who go along with their empire building and the loss of social programs and infrastructure at home.


--------
Will Marshall is president of the Progressive Policy Institute - joined at the hip to the DLC.

He is also a signer on to PNAC docs:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/defense-20050128.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-20030328.htm



"So I would like to start by thanking Al From and Will Marshall, Bruce Reed, and all of the people at the DLC and the PPI, not only for the rich legacy of your ideas, which have helped to transform our party and reinvigorate our country, but for your determination to stay focused on the future, laying the groundwork for the next great era of Democratic leadership. I want to salute the service and leadership of my friend and colleague, Senator Evan Bayh, one of the most hardworking, committed members of the Senate, who has led the DLC over the last several years."

-Hillary Clinton

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253482&kaid=137&subid=900111

Git da bastads

I don't trust them.They are beholden to corporations and play good cop bad cop with the republicans so real dems can get nothing done.
These Dems are a bunch of elephants with donkey masks on. Don't be fooled.

Phalangism is a close cousing of Fascism. Google phalangism 3rd way...

War Supporters and closet Bush supporters will never get my vote.

From left to right: U.S. Sen. Tom Carper is vice chair of the DLC; U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is chair of the DLC's American Dream Initiative; Al From is founder and CEO of the DLC; Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack is chair of the DLC; (Not pictured: Bruce Reed is DLC president; Pennsylvania State Representative Jennifer Mann is chair of the DLC's State Legislative Advisory Board (SLAB); Columbus (OH) Mayor Michael Coleman is chair of the DLC's Local Elected Officials Network(LEON).)


Our party is full of them.

Have we considered that maybe the REAL Democrats need to form their own organization to counter these DLC moles???

How about the "Democratic Integrity Group".

Members: Cynthia McKinney, Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold, etc...

http://www.pdamerica.org/

Most of the ones you mention are members of the PDA. The PDA doesn't get much airtime because one thing they pledge to do is fix the problem of the Corporate Owned Propagamda Networks.






The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

In EVERY case, "Barriers to Trade" and "Restrictions on Corporations" were created to protect something valuable!

What's the name of his group? And who all are members of that? I saw Vilsack on "Road to the White House" a couple of Sunday's ago speaking at the Florida state democratic convention. He gave a pretty good speech. I had no clue he was a DLCer. He talked about health care and taking care of our families and military veterans. I can't remember if he talked about Iraq or not but he talked about making sure democrats take back the government next year. You can probably find it at c-span.org

I can't find his name anywhere with the DLC so far.

And don't forget that Kucinich supports banning flag burning too. I am pretty sure if we work hard enough we can find reasons to not support any democrat ever.
:eyes:

My Topical List:

1. The Constitution - you either support it or you don't
2. The Illegal War In Iraq - you were either against it or you were for it
3. Economic Justice - you either believe in a living wage or you don't
4. Progressive Taxes - you are either for them or you are not
5. Universal Health Care - you either support it or you don't
6. Environmental Protection - you are either for it or you are not
7. Fair Elections - you either support a paper trail or you don't
8. Campaign Finance - you either support small non-corporate/non-PAC donations or you don't

So which Dem measures up?

it's not as if folks are just pulling one or two datapoints out and drawing conclusions it is a PATTERN that has emerged from a long history yet some folks are still in denial or part of the SCAM.

peace

I haven't heard if he's still affiliated with them or not. I've heard Kerry isn't anymore and hasn't been since 2003. I don't recall seeing Edwards' name. Does anybody have an updated list?

:eyes:

Not Authorized By Law: Domestic Spying and Congressional Consent

JURIST Guest Columnist Jordan Paust of the University of Houston Law Center says that contrary to assertions by President Bush and the US Department of Justice, post-9/11 Congressional legislation on the use of military force against terrorists does not authorize domestic spying...

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2005/12/not-authorized-by-law-domestic-spying.php

The DLC is a Trojan Horse, people.

Perfect analogy!I have not heard of a RLC either. Perhaps we should start one and really make the teams even?

:rofl:

they already have the fundies and they've pretty much shut everyone else out.

there`s really no difference between them.

Neoliberals (or free-marketeers) really believe in free, unregulated capitalism as the ultimate solution for a model society. Neocons only push such ideas as much as it will get the federal government off their back and cut their taxes, but they are not above corporate welfare and corporate bailouts like the S&L scandals of the 1980s, which is something a free-marketeer would argue against saying it's government interference in the markets. The neocons want the government there to serve their interests. Free-marketeers see no role for government beyond enforcing contracts and property law. Social programs don't exist with both these groups.

The DLC staffers will soon be here!

Calling all of us 'leftists names'..... :eyes:

what's his name must not be online or he would be policing this thread already..

I can almost hear the limo driving up and dropping off our little resident red baiter at his work place DLC boilerroom.

:rofl:

This is indefensable, but my, how do they try.

They work very hard spreading the Corporate propaganda (Corpoganda)at DU.
I wonder how much it pays?


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

In EVERY case, "Barriers to Trade" and "Restrictions on Corporations" were created to protect something valuable!

an excuse and will blame the democrats.

You better believe it!

The DLC through the privately funded DCCC headed by
DLCer Rham Emmanuel.


The DCCC is using their deep pockets to fund their own Corporate Endorsed candidates in local Democratic primaries. They have slapped down local grass roots spawned progressive candidates who have the backing of the locals, but not the backing of Corporate America and the DLC.



"The New Democrats apparently have begun this long march. The DLC has made training of a new generation of New Democrat leaders one of its primary objectives, continuing its efforts to work with and influence up-and-coming state and local officials. The New Democrat Network has grown quickly, increasing its ability to fund New Democrat candidates for federal office, including those running in primary contests."
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=955&kaid=127&subid=171

"Corporate Endorsed candidates"

Which corporations have endorsed which candidates?

.... nice to know the law doesn't matter unless you're Tookie Williams or someone like that. The Powers-That-Be should be unecumbered by old school constitutional issues like privacy or unwarranted search. They know what's best, that truth is above the petty squabble between Republican and Democrat.

Whatta present!

How DARE you criticize the DLC, you McCarthyite leftist scum!
</boudelang>

Thankfully Mr. Whitman is in the - minority.

The Delusional Lying Cowards support more Bush policies as a rule than they do Traditional Democratic Values.

kick

Just like the org hebelongs to. Remember where Bush got the idea for "faith based" government spending - the DLC. How's that for "triangulation"? What a bunch of... whatever.

Seriously. I have tried to get the meaning from context. Al Franken likes to say "bloviates", but the definition still seems too broad to me.

I thought not.

...infiltrators....working to destabilize, handicap and make the Democratic party ever more ineffective and internally split. A part of the neo-con master plan. There just can't be any doubt of this anymore.

Because if the DLC aren't these things, please explain to me how a person could ever tell that they aren't these things??????:mad:

they claim to be dems, but they have used baby gloves or outright defended bush when it comes to pointing out his crimes

This worked for the short time it took for Democratic "leaders" to realize that Bush was going to take us into Iraq, no matter what. Most of us voters realized this before the "leadership" had a handle on it -- and we stood idly by while we were bulldozed.

Bush & friends will not get away with his shit this time (blah blah blah -- we won't be fooled again!)

Fuck the PNAC elite -- Cheney & cRummy & Wolfie & Scooter & Feith & all of the NWO gang. They've had their chance to make a better world & they blew it. They turned the world against us (dispelling then notion that "we are the world").


God bless the America that used to stand on principle.

His recipe for weighty "think tank" policy issues:

1.Get latest GOP talking point issue papers;

2.Put them out on DLC letterhead under his name.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

for responding to those who dissent:

"HAHAHAHAHA"

"Don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

"Progressive purist! Progressive purist! Bring me a wipe!"

"One would think...."

"opposition is toxic; dissent is toxic;"

"When was the last time someone won by telling the truth?"

"HAHAHAHA"

to find a post on a completely different topic, which you then hold up as an example of DLC shilling at DU.

Disappointed that nobody took your bait upthread?

Sid

I can post links about lots of things.

What I posted was in reply to post #73. As an example of the style, or more to the point, lack of substance, of many similar post by a certain pro Hillary shill spouter.

Is that clear enough for you?

This issue can't be shown enough. The DLC is one of the reasons we are where we are.

because the truth must be known.

Ugh. Disgusting! I was listening earlier this week to the Young Turks and one of them said that Lawrence O'Donnell (from the "West Wing") didn't think he was spying on political opponents. Uh duh what do you call anti-war groups, PETA, quakers? :eyes:

http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/bloggers

I don't really understand the connection or why.

....drunken fool.

You don't build up a resume of every right wing hate group on the planet and then suddenly become a "Democrat". Even the conversion of Saul on the freeway to Damascus wasn't that extreme.

Not buying Wittman. Not now, not ever.

FUCK the DLC and remove this cancer from the party before it is too late.

In reading through subsequent comments, however, I saw more than a few saying they wouldn't vote for Hillary or other Democratic nominees for various reasons. All I can tell you is that this ex-independent moderate, who calls himself Jefferson's Ghost, isn't voting for anyone in mid-term or presidential elections. From now on, I'm voting against someone and the whole party that supported his actions. For the first time in my life I'm pulling the lever. That's right, ALL Democrats! My idea of the "lesser of the two evils," was folly. All future elections will be easier for me because I'm pulling the lever of freedom every time its offered in the future.

Where's Mr. Crusty? I thought for sure he'd be here to defend the dlc :shrug:

of poorer nations and exploitation of citizens, and death and mayhem in general. Then they have the unmitigated gall to claim that not only are the "Democratic" but also that they are essential to the party!!! And anyone less than enthusiastic about our blood-soaked killing fields is "doing the Republicans' work"!!!!!!!!