Why are we throwing Feingold under the bus?

Some people don't agree with Russ on Israel so they are through with him and his war hawk stances?
He did vote against the war in Iraq right?He's the only one to stand up to Bush over wiretapping.Yet some disagree over one issue and he's the worst democrat since Lieberman.Come on people get real!
No wonder we can't win anything!Think before ripping think!

reiligious wackos. He gets no support from me.

with one issue he's no longer any good?Who is going to stick up for us then?Hillary?

Democrats can't abide popularity. Might make us win or something.

Oh, wait a minute...

Liberals angry at Boxer for supporting Lieberman
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/15051421.htm

Nevermind. I guess the bus is in for a bumpy ride.

not just "one issue."

What is Israel suppose to do?Maybe send a bouquet?

I can't argue with people like you.

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The Jewish people voted the wack jobs in office and how they have to live with that, just like we have to live with Bush... (Gore beat Bush but I will not go there) .

And what they want. . .not coexistance, but the destruction of Israel.

Bush was selected, not elected. . .then he stole 2004. The ruling party in Israel was ELECTED.

government, is akin to the reason why so many New Yorkers and Chicagoans thought so highly of John Gotti and Al Capone. They were thugs and murderers, yet they played a kind of "Robin Hood" to the people who lived in the areas they ran. Donating money to churches and schools, hospitals, many private acts of charity to ingratiate themselves to the masses, while they murdered and plundered.

Hamas IS a terrorist organization. Make no mistake about it. They have a long and bloody murderous history. The Palestinian authority made the mistake of ignoring the pleas of the people they ruled, and Hamas cunningly stepped in to fill the void. Nothing altruistic about their charitable actions. When people are starving for food and medical attention, they don't much care who gives it to them, and are more than willing to turn a blind eye toward the giver's barbarity, as long as it doesn't directly affect them.

n/t

in a suicide bombing in a marketplace.

A bomb blows up targetting militants, an arab child is killed because bombs are equal opportunity killers and Israel is raked over coals.

protect their children?They spend all their money on weapons instead of creating infrastructure to get jobs into the area.What useful thing have they done to help their own cause?Israel is protecting it's own children.And if it's you or me guess what sorry about that but you have to protect your own.

obligated to create infrastructure and jobs for Palestinians?

...Israel is a militarily occupying power, and has, under several international treaties and agreements, a clear, unavoidable duty to provide for the welfare of the civilian population they control. It's a responsibility they've failed at for nearly six decades, and one suspects, deliberately so. Israel has spent hundreds of billions over those decades building an infrastructure and economy in the occupied territories...all of the good stuff (roads, schools, clinics, electrical grids and water/sewer systems) on the colonizing 'settlers', and all the bad stuff (jails, security barriers, road blocks) on Palestinians. To save an additional post to rant, why is it that Iran is threatened with nuclear annilihation for pursuing a perfectly legal (and UN-monitored) nuclear program, while Israel is allowed an ILLEGAL nuclear arsonal without criticism, or concern for its destabilizing effects in a hyper-volitile region?

I'm sorry I was brought up that ALL children had worth. I didn't realize we sort by religion.

Cheers

...maybe you'll convince yourself that it's true.

I hate to bring up something that really doesn't have anything to do with the current conflict, but you brought up 3000 years of history.

Now look at what my great-grandfather and some of his sons did during WWII...BTW if you visit the museum in Malmo you'll see picture of my great-grandfather with his boat. Also his son was with the custom inspectors and a Nazi sympathizer who raided his father's house searching for the hidden Jews.

<<It was a solemn honor to stand by the gravestones in Mindelunden, a memorial park outside of Copenhagen, Denmark. Over fifty years prior, this park had witnessed the bloody massacre of 106 Danish men and women who resisted the Nazis. Many of those executed had been part of a nationwide effort to transport all of Denmark's Jews to neutral Sweden. Standing by the haunting execution stakes and scores of graves, I reflected on my past five days retracing the rescue route used by those resistors and the Danish population at large to save the country's Jews from deportation and extermination.
-snip-

As the Jews left the synagogue, filled with terror, they were unaware that a miracle was already in motion-initiated by courageous men and women. The entire country of Denmark had united under the moral and heroic leadership of King Christian X in a full scale effort to save the country's Jewish population. Jews were whisked away by fellow Danes, incorporated into fake funeral processions, escorted away in siren-blaring ambulances, and picked up randomly by taxi cab drivers upon leaving the synagogue. By 10:00 p.m. on October 1, almost all of the 8000 Danish Jews had seemingly vanished into thin air. Outraged Nazis stormed and scoured the entire city of Copenhagen in an unsuccessful hunt for the Jews. In perilous circumstances, heroes emerged in all walks of life. A prime example was at Bispebjerg Hospital. In three days, courageous and resourceful doctors and nurses disguised over 2000 healthy Jews as ailing Christians, and corpses, in the morgue and chapel to hide them from the Nazis.

-snip-
Using the cloak of darkness to evade the relentless Nazis, the Jews were then smuggled with the utmost stealth from the city to factories, inns, churches and residences in the countryside. From there, they were taken to the gateways to freedom-coastal fishing villages like Niva, Snekkersten, and Gilleleje where men rowed boats with small groups of Jews across the narrow channel to Sweden. One of these young men was sixteen-year-old Munch Nielsen. Now in his seventies, Nielsen told me that saving the Jews was simply "a matter of decency" (Nielsen). Undeterred by the Nazis and their search dogs, local doctors drugged the Jewish children to keep them quiet while substances to curb the dogs' smelling abilities were put on every boat. In the end, the operation was a miraculous success; over 7000 of the 8000 Danish Jews emerged from the bottoms of fish-filled boats as free men and women in Sweden, where they remained until the war's end.>>

http://holocaust.hklaw.com/essays/2004/20041E.htm

Cheers

At the same time my father was in Ireland cheering on the Nazis. It makes me a Jew-hater as much as the exploits of your ancestors makes you a philo-semite.

First, disliking the Israeli government does not make one an anti-Semite. My husband is Jewish and he thinks the Israeli government has been taken over by religious, land-grubbing nuts.

Second, Arabs are also Semitic, so that terminology has been incorrect since its first usage, as it relates to Arab sentiment toward Jews.

I'm with you and Feingold and Israel. And here's something important to remember...we're likely in the majority.

I remember Feingold as the only person to vote against the Patriot Act. He is my hero. I wouldn't turn on him after that for ANY reason.

Israel has been attacked from BEFORE the second it was created. The world turns a blind eye to the fact that Jewish mothers and fathers can't take their babies to the grocery without fear of being blown to bits year after year after DECADE. Oh those poor, poor arabs who won't rest until every Jew is dead. They are SO OPPRESSED!

We are at a turning point on this planet. Some of us truly understand what is happening and why. Others are blindly following their scripts without a critical eye. But all will be clear in the end.

thinkingwoman, jewish by choice since 1990

Some people seem to be incapable of seeing a person in shades of grey.

How do they vote?I can't think of one candidate that I have agreed with on every issue.I'd have to write in my own name.

The holding of noses is also generally involved.

In most cultures, warriors eat their enemies to gain strength. Liberals instead eat our heroes to lose our strengt. We seem to like the sound of their bones popping as the bus runs over them. We stand behind them with our hands on their backs, and if they take one misstep, we shove them. Then smile happily.

Is there even one that hasn't been skewered?

it's only because they have no chance to win.

One statement in this Party can doom you to some members, but THANK GOD not to most.

Unfortunately, some of the biggest mouths are the most fickle and shortsighted one issue Democrats.

Many of my friends, family, acquaintances and politicians have views that do not agree with mine. Being a person of depth, I realize, that we are all individuals and we all should realize that we ALONE do not have all of the answers. Grow up.

Something you will rarely see in the republican party. They will uphold one another no matter what, whatever it takes, 'til Hell freezes over. Republicans do it because they don't like being wrong; God forbid they would pick a loser.....They really picked one this time around, but they'll never let it get out if they can help it.

Shame on those of us who pick on our own party. I'm going to try and change that in myself.:spank: :spank: The worst Democrat is far above the "best" republicans have to offer.

Edited to correct a format/spelling error

...sooner or later the GOP will lose power, and when they do, the long knives will come out, and the cannibalism will begin in earnest. Vietnam and civil rights were the wedge issues that split the left from liberalism...a rift that has only widened, no matter how loudly the RW equates the two with eachother, and a few other things (like communism and nazi-ism, simultaneously at that). Iraq, Junior's budget-busting/mortgage to country to china fiscal policies and perhaps immigration will serve the same function for conservatives and neo-con/fundamentalist radicals. It's cyclical, y'know...something Marx (among others) observed about success sowing the seeds of its own destruction.

You're absolutely right; If we can survive this administration, maybe things will return to better times for all of us. It's this "fascist" gang that hangs together, but they too shall go down with him. :hi: :hi: Welcome to DU. :dem:

;-)

Everybody around here seems to think they can't possibly be wrong or that intelligent people can disagree on some issues while still being in agreement on most of them. Realistically, I doubt most Democrats know what Feingold thinks of this, nor do I think most would let it change their opinion of him one way or another.

And I don't expect to agree with everyone on everything.

That's how it should be.I don't even agree with myself all the time.

would be being talked about if his name wasn't Finegold!

Almost every war in the ME has been about religion! I happen to think they're ALL crazy, and I'm not going to take sides. I detest the idea of Israel bombing Lebanon, but I also detest the idea of Hezbola bombing Israel.

Look at the insane fighting that''s been going on between Israel and Pakistan forever!

I don't know what the answer is to that mess in the entire ME. I doubt anyone is ever going to change the religious beliefs of each faction, and I can't imagine what agreement could ever be reached that would convince everyone to just stay out of everyone elses sh*t and live and let live.

on the subject too.Maybe someone smarter than us has the answer,but I doubt it.

...his name IS Feingold, which is precisely WHY it's being talked about. Duh?

However, I also think the entire world is not peaceful by nature and that some people even commit crimes so we need to have laws and punishments.

Platteville - Sen. Russ Feingold on Saturday defended Israel's right to protect itself amid the escalating conflict along its borders, saying "I don't think any country is going to let their soldiers be kidnapped, transported, killed . . . without a serious response."

Feingold said he would not second-guess "whether that response was exactly as it should be."

Said Feingold: "My hope would be that Israel would use as much restraint as possible. . . . It's in Israel's interest and the interests of peace. But I do think Israel has not only a right but also a responsibility to respond to the Hezbollah attack."

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=468380

they think the alternatives are.

One issue doesn't define a politician. Russ is one of the few politicians that seems to consistently stick up for what is right, instead of what is politically expedient.

If Russ is so bad, what does that make the 90+% of Congress to the right of him?

Trashing him over this issue is counterproductive.

Our long-term goals reqire brave voices in the Congress.

His is one such.

unlike most Israel apoligists

issue that matters to them.....israel.

giving the "they want to wipe Israel off the map" rationale for the current aggression.

I'm over here...........................................they're over here. We're all Jewish. The Islamicists are in a different place entirely.

No end in sight.

I'm voting for him, if he gets into the Michigan primary.

I think a lot of DUers could be educated by this post.

n/t

US, Israel push world to brink of world war
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=LAR20060717&articleId=2747
In the space of mere hours, the world has been collectively incited, provoked, and dragged into an all-out war that is on course towards potential nuclear super power conflict. (Analysis from independent sources such as Electronic Intifada, Dahr Jamail, and Angry Arab News provide bloody detail on unfolding conditions, as well as historic context.)

What must be underscored and grasped at this historic moment are not simply the atrocities on the part of Israel, but the Bush administration’s pathologically sinister actions fanning the flames of this mushrooming war.

The entire world knows that only the US can stop it. The Bush administration won’t. It has only not even bothered to script words that sound like diplomacy, it has purposely congratulated Israel, which has spectacularly executed the shared 9/11-created policy of presumptive unilateral war against “terrorists” (all political opponents are “terrorists”).
...
Could the Israeli aggression be the Bush administration pretext for the bigger Middle East war that the neocons have long dreamed about, with the US and Israel destroying Iran and Syria simultaneously, daring Russia and China to stop them?

Is this the next stage of World War Three (begun on 9/11), or World War Four, a new and truly planetary holocaust?


The Dangers of a Middle East Nuclear War
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060217&articleId=1988


http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=home

who does not make such a critical error in judgment at such a critical time.

He's got "it". Kucinich while couragous and honest just doesn't.

I don't know exactly how I feel about the whole ME mess, but I agree that it's wrong when either side kills. What is the solution?

Both sides do it. Unfortunately when your innocent civilians get bombed enough times the other side gets really, really angry and smacks back hard.

Feingold could have been a leader here -- he failed.

his has been building for years.

Again, he failed.

He can see, as I and many nuanced observers can see, that Israel has the right to strike back when their innocents have been killed by terrorists. He did say he hopes Isreal will show restraint.

Your responses have "failed" and are extreme.

If you and any "nuanced observers can see," then you are somehow otherwise being blinded by what is in plain sight. No Progressive in their right mind would support Israel's current destruction of Lebanon.

Not no way. Not no how.

People appear here and argue with you over it.

Are they not in their right minds?

Or are they not progressives?

"Explain World War Two. Use both sides of the page if needed."

Israel's bombing innocent Lebanese civilians -- many of whom have absofuckinglutely nothing to do with Hezbollah -- is a war crime, plain and simple -- it is wrong, and no one and no Progressive in their right mind can excuse this.

Killing of civilians comes from both sides.

Israel is into landgrabbing andwater grabbing, and kills 10 Palestinian civilians for every one of its own civilians. If it was the other way around, I'd be siding with Israel.

And the IDF started blowing up Beirut before Hezbollah bombed the North.

But I can say I can see how, after Israel's innocent's being murdered by terrorists how they could get to this point. I'm not for killing of innocent people, Israeli or Arab, but I don't have the extreme view that it's cut and dried. I'm not a pacifist and I believe countries have the right to defend themselves. The collateral damage is disgusting, but it's an outrage on both sides. I can see Israel has gotten to the point where enough is enough. As Feingold has said, I hope they show restraint. If they do not, it's wrong but I can still see why they would get to this point. War os wrong amd war sucks a big one but it's how it is over there and I'm not in their shoes so I'm going to be black and white on it.

when one does not look at the whole picture.

Politicians never speak in black and white.That's why we like Feingold.

before this started?

But you probably won't get a direct answer to your question from this poster.

where was he on the vote for war the patriot act?

Curse the DLC for tanking his campaign in 2004... without their nefarious influence, he surely would have won the Presidency.

That's the funniest thing I've read all weekend!
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

has as much creditability as rush Limbaugh.

It sounds like he is favoring Israel in his view on the conflict.

Also I assume he has strong ties with Jewish Community and is staying loyal to them.

for?Not to mention they are an allie.Israel has a right to protect itself.what would we do if someone were lobbing missiles into the U.S?

Right to defend is different that right to escalate violence so that the possibility of compromise is completely extinguished.

He doesn't fall in line with hard-line Israeli politics. Russ is not everything-anti-Arab-all the time, so I don't think you're assumption is correct at all.

And why do people usually take a biased view? Because they have love, affection, loyality ties to one group, more so than the other group.

Not that you are new, but you seem to discover how DU works.

You can be worshipped one day and burnt at the stake the next day because people will disagree with you on one position.

to hell with god, how dare he disagree with me on 1 issue. I'm not voting for someone who doesn't agree with me 100% of the time. I'm a realist who understands that I am the end all authority on what is right and wrong and am in no way dogmatic.

And at least for some of us, principles are more important than groupthink and mindless lockstep loyalty to a party?

Just a thought.

over everyones rights.who exactly do you support?

I think Andy Warhol said that.

I'm amazed that Stephen Colbert's number hasn't come up yet.

I believe it was.

Isn't that reason enough? :shrug:

Likewise, there is always a Democrat getting clobbered on DU for something. No elected Democrat, anywhere, is good for anything under the proper circumstances. Feingold was a hero here a month ago for calling for the Bush censure, and every Dem who didn't back him was a bag of shit. Now, well...the winds have shifted.

Worth remembering: any time someone here laments, "Why don't these Dems listen to us?!", remember this. They don't listen to us because we are the most unreliable voting bloc in history. We bolt in a heartbeat, and self-righteously to boot. Women and minorities and Unions are the base of the party, not us. We cannot be trusted.

Everybody goes under the bus. That's how we work.

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People have real short memories around here.

the bus, it does not signify a consensus.

Black and white thinking is not exclusive to the Republican party - we've got them right here.

I honestly don't know what he has said. My preference for 08' is Clark, Gore, or Feingold...in that order.

am proud to have him as a Democratic leader who's right on many, many issues that are critical to a better, more progressive future for this country. :)

Every now and then I actually think a politician might know more about something than I do or might have considered something that I haven't. Russ is that one politician. I don't understand his position but I am willing to bet he's given it a lot of thought.

someone who stands up for what he/she believes whether or not it's the currently popular stance. And regardless of whether or not you agree with him he should be judged by that integrity. Again, something that is far too foreign for us to conceive.

He says one thing some people don't like, and they start calling him a warmonger and a DINO and shit.

As long as we continue to behave this way, we'll get what we deserve. This is the exact same mindset from the American left that has given us two terms of G.W. Bush. Thanks for that, "progressives." :thumbsup:

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Wow.

Shit, I might be in some deep doodoo when the next banking conspiracy meeting rolls around...

:shrug:

thats what got me scratch'n my head :shrug:

President how fucking dumb... ya'll right...let's give Gore Or Kerry a second hance at the title. Dems are truly stupid!!

We can be pissed as hell at him - in fact we are supposed to make our discontent known, that's our job as citizens - without thinking he's a bad guy. This position will be the kiss o' death for him for some, not for others. Same w/Lieberman, same w/Lamont, same w/anyone. We argue, we bicker, and then we decide it in the voting booth.

(It's that LAST part we should be worried about protecting, not one political figure or another.)

Feingold can pound sand.

We're turning into one big mob,nobody pleases everyone.Who the hell are you going to vote for?

Just lobbing a few tomatoes at him because he happens to be wrong this time.

with me in every single position. Politicians must conform w/my beliefs at all times, or I will consider them a DINO/DLC mole. Feingold is dead to me! (or at least "on notice").

I see that I cannot, in good conscience, support someone who thinks that killing the neighbors is an appropriate solution to conflict. Simple as that.

I appreciate much of Feingold's work. I'm not throwing him under any bus. I hope he will continue to do the vital work he has done.

I cannot support someone who thinks it is ok to kill the neighbors to solve a community problem. Simple.

I want my country to stop bullying the world, and to stop killing innocents to get to the intended victims. Simple.