Bush's Frozen-Embryo Children: 1,073 Embryos Destroyed to Make 118 Kids.

If The Chimp is so rattled about "fetal farming," he should ponder (but that would require a brain) the how-did-they-get-here facts of all those "snowflake" kids he was fondling shamelessly today for the cameras.

Assuming that Nightlight's (the "snowflake" adoption agency) numbers (and my math) are correct:

Of 1191 embryos thawed, 635 were viable for transfer -- that's 556 embryos gone, right off the bat.

Of the 635 viable embryos, 118 babies were produced. That's another 517 embryos gone.

By my tortured calculations, 1,073 embryos have been destroyed in the process of making 118 babies. If one resolutely believes that life begins right at conception, ***how*** are these numbers justified? Again, if one believes that life starts at the moment of conception, isn't it possible that all those lost embryos could have remained frozen until thawing and implantation success rates have improved through the, ahem, advancement of medical research? :shrug:

http://www.nightlight.org/snowflakefaqsap.htm#Frozen
Nightlight Christian Adoptions

Frequently Asked Questions by Adopting Families

FROZEN EMBRYO TRANSFER (FET)

Revised 3.24.06
<snip>
What is the success rate for thawing and viability of embryos?
1191 embryos have been thawed for transfer of which 635 were viable, therefore the overall thawing success rate of Snowflakes is 53.3%. However, the success rate for frozen embryo transfer varies by each clinic. The national average overall thaw success rate is 51%.
<snip>
What is the success rate of pregnancies among Snowflakes families who have had embryo transfers?
To date, 146 families had completed 222 transfers resulting in 104 pregnancies.
99 children have been born (71 families: 22 sets of twins, 3 sets of triplets and 5 siblings), and 15 more moms are due with 19 babies (4 sets of twins). Several recent transfers are awaiting pregnancy test results and more transfers are scheduled in the next few months.

<snip>

- - - - - - - -
As for costs, a "snowflake" will run a family somewhere between $10,500 and $22,600:

What would you estimate the entire cost for the adoption to be?
For this program you have either two or three separate fees depending on where you live:

If you live outside of Southern California:
1. Our program fee of $5000
2. Fees from the agency performing your homestudy, ranging from $1000-$2500
3. The fertility clinic's fee for a frozen embryo transfer (FET), usually ranging from $2,000 and $7,500

If you live in Southern California:
1. Our program fee of $6600 (includes homestudy). A $1,600 credit is applied if you have already completed a homestudy with another agency.
2. The fertility clinic’s fee for a frozen embryo transfer (FET), usually ranging from $2,000 and $7,500

What additional out-of-pocket expenses can we expect?
Any lab work your clinic requires of the genetic family prior to the shipping of the embryos ($500-$1000), shipping embryos via Federal Ex.

<snip>

Does the program fee include medical expenses?
No. You will need to pay the clinic of your choice to thaw and transfer the embryos. Since medical expenses vary by provider, we encourage you to research clinics in your area. We have heard recent quotes from $2,000-7,500 for an embryo transfer. This may or may not include any necessary medications needed to prepare the adoptive mother’s body for the embryo transfer. Be sure you are comparing apples to apples with services included in a quote and the costs of subsequent transfers.

<snip>

are unable to conceive....you don't get this option of invitro fertilization...

And inquiring minds want to know why the term "snowflakes"....what is this implying?

I honestly don't think it is a racist name.

"Dippin' Dots" was already taken.

$$ helping kids already born?

Why don't they adopt children already here?

what happens when you try to figure out the logic.


..By my tortured calculations, 1,073 embryos have been destroyed in the process of making 118 babies. If one resolutely believes that life begins right at conception, ***how*** are these numbers justified? Again, if one believes that life starts at the moment of conception, isn't it possible that all those lost embryos could have remained frozen until thawing and implantation success rates have improved through the, ahem, advancement of medical research?

If they are, there might be more frozen Bush zygotes somewhere that Dubya wants to have adopted so he can spread out the Bush gene pool over a broader area.

That scares me.

I did read on a different discussion board that it was mentioned while he was Governor, but has been kept quiet since.

trying to achieve life. At least they had a chance.(tongue firmly planted against cheek)

Amazing innit?

The dumpster or science and Bush would rather throw them out than for lives to be saved through science.

What's more amazing are the people that applaud this ...ah..."thinking"

Dark times -- very dark times.

and furthermore THANK YOU!!!

in fact the majority of "embryos" (since that isn't the correct term for them at the stage they are transferred during In Vitro, but I can't remember the correct term)

anyway we'll call them embryos, and the majority of them don't survive when implanted the old fashioned way, through copulation and fertilization.

One out of five survives since 20% of egg fertilizations survive the early days of existence and are able to attach to the uterus and survive.

It's tough to be an embryo anyhow, so I don't think that these numbers are bad at all. In fact, success with In Vitro is better than the old fashioned way

all that said, I definitely see your point, since so many of these embryos degrade anyway (I won't say die because they aren't a person) how are "snowflake babies" not a product of a process that the administration already opposes, that being the use of human embryos for purposes where they are "killed"

I would guess, that maybe the next step would be to start arresting people who attain conception, but never make it to a viable pregnancy because the embryos degrade within the first few days.

so if they aren't used in any of the above ways, why not use them for stem cell research?

stupid, because the very area being highlighted, "extra" in vitro fertilization embryos, points out how hollow and meaningless the restrictions are, because no one in shrubco is making a big deal about how these "extra" viable embryos are simply destroyed, no one is making a big push to ban this practice or to adopt them or bring them to term.

I've pointed this out to anti-abortion people before, how if they were to be consistent, the destruction of these embryos is just as monstrous a crime as they purport abortion to be. It's mostly a headscratcher to them, or they can't acknowledge the inconsistency or hypocrisy.

Shrubco points them over here (abortion) or over there (stem cell research) and they march or shout, but anything that doesn't come from the shrubco playbook, they don't "get".

And you are right about the high rate of zygotes that never make it far beyond the point of fertilization in good old fashioned sexual conceptions. Beyond that even, according to the March of Dimes, as many as 50 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage, most before the woman even realizes that she's pregnant.

It's the natural way of things for zygotes not to make it to the point of a live birth of a baby. It's quite ridiculous to think that all of those frozen embryos represent potential human lives.

As if it needed more emphasis! :sarcasm:

Thanks.

:kick:

photo-op pandering session today with Bush and those kids. It was neo-Nazi, I just got Hitleresque images in my mind, I had to turn off the set. Disgusted. "I'm such a hero!" While innocent folks suffer and die and possibly could be helped someday.

Very interesting background info you gave. I am giving this a reco also.

compared to those who support the death penalty, the Iraq war, etc.

My gut feeling says those will be one and the same.

is being highlighted, hmmm?

Looks like EVERY one of the "Snowflake" families must have been present in the WH earlier today.

hhhmmmmm!

They're all so pro-life, let them have all the babies.

will grow up to be republicans.

There are about 400,000 frozen embryos in the United States. That's a way smaller number than 118 snowflake kids.

I think it's nice that a few kids have been born from donated embryos. I'm happy to see any baby born, wherever he or she comes from. But the cruel truth is that not all of those 400,000 embryos are going to become snowflakes. For most of them, their futures range from being thawed to being thrown out. A few might be donated to infertile couples, but even then the odds are against them making it to term and becoming babies.

If parents are allowed to choose organ donation for a child that would not otherwise live, why can't they donate their embryos to research and save thousands or millions of lives? I wouldn't willingly sacrifice a human being to research, but if I had done in vitro fertilization and my family were complete, I would be thrilled to think that any remaining embryos could benefit humanity in some small way.

they would try to outlaw in vitro fertilization, or make it illegal to not implant and carry to term every embyo produced.

It just strikes me as incredibly hypocritical. In the Republican's mindset:

Someone gets pregnant and has an abortion = MURDER
Someone goes in for IVF, has dozens of embryos created even though most will end up destroyed = NO PROBLEM

But IVF is only available for people with money, so its overlooked.