Make no mistake about Hezbolah's intentions

It is for the destruction of Israel, and of Jews

..."a speech delivered by Hassan Nasrallah, in which he said, "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli."

"Larry Johnson, a former counterterrorism official in the Clinton State Department, once told me, "There's a fundamental view here of the Jew as subhuman. Hezbollah is the direct ideological heir of the Nazis."

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?021014fa_fact4

But one never knows around here. Just had to check. Peace. Carry on. :hi:

Of course the biggest problem has been our lack of engagment in the area for the past six years. And I am NOT referring to military engagement, but diplomatic engagment. Not only in the middle east, but the entire world

Including North and South Korea. Why can't we meet face to face with North Korea, or others?

we have to choose between killing them or them killing Jews. If they want to start this shit than they will reap what they sow. No one questioned whether Nazi's who attacked minorities and civilians should die. Why should we spare disgusting people like this? We can't all hold hands and skip through pretty flowers. This is the real world and there are a lot of sick twisted people out there who would like to see others dead just based on their religion or race. Hezbollah takes that one step further and acts on it though.

You should be so proud.

I am proud to stand up against groups and political parties that want to see the destruction of entire people base don religion or race. You should feel the same!

Then why do you have no problem with the destruction of Lebanon and its entire infrastructure, the killing and wounding of hundreds of civilians, mostly women and children, the shooting of busses and ambulances carrying fleeing civilians, and the creation of a horrendous humanitarian crisis in nearly a million desperate, homeless refugees who've lost everything? Surely you can't believe that all of them are Hezbollah?

and everything would be fine.

But that's not how the world works. Hezbollah like other groups that purpotrate terrorist acts are well integrated in their respective societies and perform social services as well and have been more effective than their secular counterparts in some cases.

This isn't to defend them. They are just clever in playing politics, like the statement of the Hezbollah leader that "apologized" for the deaths that occured (apologized only because the deaths were of Arabs).

I guess this is the the age old dilemna, of what will it take to defend yourself? How much force is justifiable for self defense? Israel is justifiable in going after terrorists, but is it justifiable in destroying another country's infrastructure and killing hundreds of civilians while doing so?

Surely there must be a better way.

eom

terrorists who launch attacks on Jews inside and outside of Israel. Not innocent Lebanese.

The polarization and demonization of one 'side' or another to apologize slaughter, destruction, and oppression is running at a fever pitch, even on DU. The partisans are apparently deaf and blind to the abomination of their 'team' as they feverishly fill their eyes and ears with a mixture of half-truths, myths, and propaganda as a land-fill beneath their phallic obelisk of righteousness. Vigilantism against "_____-sympathizers" runs amok on the spittle-festooned forums even as I post.

This is the way populations have been whipped into a war-frenzy for eons. Pitiful. Fucking pitiful! All this from people who exhibit absolutely no comprehension of the even more thorough indoctrination of military personnel - condemning them for not doing what the People fail to do in a 'democratic' nation. I can't begin to describe my disgust.

and encourage diplomatic engagement?

That's why war fever works. Various activist peace organizations (AFSC, etc.) continue their work but the Mighty Wurlitzer of the MIC/Bushoilini/Likud faction floods our senses. Those DUers engaging in this din are deaf to entreaties to desist and demonstrate compassion and examination. It's all about defending entrenched postures, now.

Sadly, the only time talks of peace proceed is when having the cigarette (funeral pyres) after the final earth-shattering wargasms - as we spill our seeds on the ground.

It was only long after I confronted and mentally-processed the experience of meeting NVA 'soldiers' under interrogation that I realized that I had more in common with them than even my own 'leadership' - a comprehension that's exceedingly difficult to assemble. It's tough to know you're mutually doomed to trying to kill one another - "it's business, not personal" - while having the most in common. It's difficult to live with - and many choose to deny it.

We're in an era of "win-lose" running amok ... and the truth of "win-win" is (temporarily?) buried under the rubble.

...are what people here care about.

PB

We know this from our adventures in Iraq. We should all know this about the Middle East by now. It won't stop until somebody makes the first move to stop it. Who will do that and how it will happen I have no idea.

there are many Lebanese who do not support "killing all Jews" and just want to go back home. I feel very sad for them.

I am just presenting a perspective on the differences

unfortunately, I am not providing any solutions, though diplomatic engagement would have been nice the last six years, but unfortunately that never happened

just showing the point of view that a lot of people on DU refuse to admit is real.

Hezbolah is an organization which has openingly called for the killing of Jews and Israellis

If you read the article, there is more than one person's opinion stated within it

This in no way justifies the killing of any civillians

It provides some perspective

Was stating what ONE person said .Therefore I consider that ONE person's opinion.

groups views. I can't believe so many people here just want to shield themsevles from believing groups like this have any ill intentions. This is not the opinion of one person. That is like saying Killing jews wasn't the Nazi's objective, just Hitlers.

It WAS Hitlers goal.

a main goal of his. But one cannot deny that Nazis were all complicit and many played leading rolls int he deaths of Jews, gays, ect. You cannot blame things like this on one person. You need more than one person to make things like this happen.

ALL Lebanese Arabs hate Jews ....

Oh wait ....

ALL Lebanese Arabs who belong to Hezbollah hate Jews ....

Every single one of them ....

Like every organization of human beings; EVERY member of that group thinks Jews are subhuman ....

There is not a single member of Hezbollah that believes Jews exist on a human par with themselves .... not a one ....

:sarcasm:

My REAL question is : Why is this crap in GD ? ... I/P is the sad morgue for this thread ,,,

Him and Ahmadinejad

Because those two are 'pieces of work' ....

From South Pacific ....

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear
You've got to be taught
From year to Year
It's got to be drummed
in your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught

You've got to be taught
To be Afraid
Of people whose eyes
are oddly made
And people whose skin
Is a different shade
You've got to be carefully taught

You've got to be taught
Before it's too late
Before you are 6 or 7 or 8
To hate all the people
your relatives hate
You've got to be carefully taught

eom

yet they speak on the subject as though they were authorities

and its place in the sphere of humanity ....

I am also quite aware that some use fallacious appeals to stir hatred .... and that many of those fallacies have formal designations defining which logical faults they commit ...

This post of yours, for instance, is abusive ad hominem ... it declares 'falsely' that I dont recognize that most Iranis are not arab (I mean who doesnt know that ? ) .... and the intent of your ststement is to demean me personally, and not address my comments directly ....

Your initial commentary speaks of the statements of one member of a group, and declares it to represent that intent of the ENTIRE group, without evidence that every member of 'Hezbollah' holds that view ....

I object, strongly, to your use of such blatantly fallacious language to attempt to justify the mass killing of innocent human beings ....

just as I am amazed at the appologists for Isreal, I am even more amazed at the appologists for Hezbolah

It appears that there is tunnel vision

Then the cirle of hatred should be expanded ....

I only hope enough bombs can be made to satisfy the bloodlust that exists ....

I would hate to see all that hatred go unsatisfied ....

Him and Ahmadinejad are very unpleasant fellows with antediluvian thoughts. Placating them is beyond by ken.

Is it because I said something bad about Hezbolah?

I didn't condone what Israel was doing, I didn't condone the deaths of civilians, I just pointed out what Hezbolah is, and it seems to bother some

unfortunately many on DU will deny it but are nothing but Hamas and Hezbollah apologists who can't face the fact that Jews and Israelis are not the cause of all of Earth's problems. I am waitng...I am sure Israel will be blamed for global warming next.

it was about Hezbalah

Isn't easy to disk out crap against Israel, but when crap is dished out about Hezbalah why are you so defensive?

Incidently, it was already decided, that this issue should be in the regular forums on a vote

until further notice.

With everyone who lives in Lebanon .....

I happen to know that 'some' jews call for the death and destruction of Arabs .... so should we presume that ALL do ? ...

This is nothing but unadulterated hatred ....

Again:

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear
You've got to be taught
From year to Year
It's got to be drummed
in your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught

You've got to be taught
To be Afraid
Of people whose eyes
are oddly made
And people whose skin
Is a different shade
You've got to be carefully taught

You've got to be taught
Before it's too late
Before you are 6 or 7 or 8
To hate all the people
your relatives hate
You've got to be carefully taught

why do you make so many shitty strawman arguments? Do you not want to deal with the facts?

I also will use rhetorical devices to make my points, if and when I choose ....

Let me lay it out for you right here:

Killing is wrong ... no matter who or what ....

The justification to kill innocents is nearly impossible to achieve ....

I have NEVER EVER, nor has nearly EVERY poster here, declared that it is 'ok' to kill or harm Israelis in ANY way .... Killing Israelis is WRONG and IMMORAL ....

But to attempt to use these arguments; that some people in Lebanon hate jews, as justification for the wholesale killing of innocent human beings .... I will not stand by, in any case, as such weak and fallacious arguments are presented as justification for killing ....

Whatever happened to the hatred of war ?

My name is Trajan .... I am a liberal human being .... I believe killing is wrong ....

I was not replying to your post. I was trying to post under another post and it ended up under yours! Nothing against you or your post.

and they sure have an interesting view of gays and all women whatever sexual preference or age.

right in your own back yard who support the same thing. Should we bomb the shit out of Montana in order to get rid of them?

into our cities, yes.

n/t

which despite the fact I oppose the death penelty was an appropriate response.

They didn't blow up every white supremist camp in Oklahoma, killing innocent civilians in the process in retaliation.

we would need to act against them

If aryans or other white supremacists started killing Jews, Blacks, any people that aren't white, we would deal with them too.

Hezbollah isn't just thoughts, these actions of Israel aren't actions because of what Hezbollah thinks. They are actions against Hezbollah because of what they do, espouse, and what their intentions are.

That's just the most obvious example, but I'm sure there are plenty of other less well know incidents that we could come up with.

And their ringleader was ruthlessly hunted and executed by our government to the glee of the general public. Please don't embarrass yourself by comparing them to establishments like Hamas and Hezbolla, which enjoy widespread popular support and governmental representation.

To do so is moral equivalency at its most ludicrous.

I live 180 miles from it now
I used to live closer
my family lived closer
I live near Elohim City, a group of white supremacists that Tim McVeigh visited


I'm not quite sure what your point is

If we had acted to stop Tim McVeigh, had better internal intel about homegrown terrorists, maybe there wouldn't have been dead children and innocent people in OKC

and a fair number of them are committed by wacko white men.

You've got to stop with these inane and senseless comparisons.

is justified in committing genocide

and the other is to be condemned for advocating it.

I see.

eom

to be dealt with in international tribunals

and call for their extinction, that person should be censured?

eom

Who

Pray tell

and called for their extinction last week, right here in GD.

I have never seen anyone actually call another human being a "cockroach".

Yes, the rhetoric on both sides becomes one indistinguishable mass of hatred.

I do take a side and won't pretend that I believe both sides of this argument here at DU are somehow "equal" -- except in the sense that we can both slide quickly into hate speech because typing is easy.

/typing

That's awful.

Maybe I should include the US in there as well.

in a NOT favorable term about Hezbolah. It does NOTHING to justify civillian loss, but it opens my eyes on how condemnation seems not always to be balanced

I don't.

I did NOT justify killing of civillians or genocide

Does it bother you that Hezbolah is NOT presented in a good light?

and used as propaganda, rather than to enlighten.

Tt trivializes all genocide to use it cynically as a political tool.

One would think the Jews, of all people, would be sensitive to this. But they are not.

eom

Let the killing begin against those who'd like to kill us if they could and all those who happen to be standing in their vicinity.

Because we hate killing and they love it.

This thread NEVER condoned the actions of Israel, but only was presenting a different perspective, in which Hezbolah was not represented in the best way

Why are people upset with that?

I understand why they are upset with Israel, and its actions, but I don't understand why they are NOT upset with Hezbolah and its actions?

I apologize for making assumptions

let us all hope the killing stops on BOTH sides

Who was it who said from the Nile to the Euphrates?
David Ben-Gurion in 1973. "For this reason we have always demanded that the Land of Israel include the southern banks of the Litani River, the headwaters of the Jordan, and the Hauran Region from the El Auja spring south of Damascus."

Leaflets urging residents in southern Lebanon to leave their homes and move north of the Litani River, 25 miles (40 kilometers) from the Israeli border, have been dropped in the region, the IDF said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/21/mideast/index.html

More to the point, an officer in Israel's Northern Command, who dealt with Haddad extensively, claims that the Lebanese major made perfectly clear to the Israelis that "We will cooperate with you, but there are two subjects which are taboo - our land and our water" (interview, October 1991). Nevertheless, the then Chief of Staff Ezer Weizman (Chaim Weizmann's nephew) was berated by a member of the Knesset after the operation for not seizing the Litani: "Your uncle knew at the time the historic significance of the Litani," M.K. Cohen shouted (cited in Hof 1985, 24).

I thought we were discussing the fella that said Jews are "despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion,..."

toward Hezbolah

This thread NEVER condoned the actions of Israel, but only was presenting a different perspective, in which Hezbolah was not represented in the best way

Why are people upset with that?

I understand why they are upset with Israel, and its actions, but I don't understand why they are NOT upset with Hezbolah and its actions?

How if Jews are "weak and feeble in psyche,(and) mind" they manage to win seventeen to thirty percent of the Nobel prizes awarded, depending on your source, despite being only one percent of the world's population.

the Middle East. To create some "baaaad group" (there are always baaaaad little groups for the Neocons to nuke and destroy, Saddam Hussein, Al Quaeda and now Hezbollah)

ITs the same racist fights and genocides they pulled on the Native Americans and African Americans.

Make them the enemy when they are really helpless victims.

Perhaps not the "Hezbollah", but what really is the Hezbollah? Is it like "Al Quaeda"?

America, don't let the bloodshed and murders and bombings continue in our name, or in Israel's name.

It's not right, we know its not right, and its not just in any form or fashion.

But not as bad as being called a descendant of an ape or a pig I guess.

not to long ago. Randii Rhodes, Al Frankin really like the guy, oh, wait a minute, they must be neo-cons too

Thanks for setting me straight

and I guess Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, and others are neocons also

Damn those Democrats, what's a mother to do?

Please note complete sarcasm.

And people wonder why there's no PEACE in the ME?

"Hezbollah is the direct ideological heir of the Nazis." SPOT ON.

Thanks for clearing things up, for some people.

including the bad things Israel has done

Unfortunately, there is no adequate solution. Diplomatic engagement would have been nice in the past six years, but that was ignored also

and the 300,000 dead there. How many threads have there been on DU over the last few months on Darfur. Probably not as many as there have been on Israel in one day.It's really interesting that there is so much outrage about Israel and literally next to nothing in regard to Darfur.

However there seems to be some people on DU and elsewhere who deem Israel worthy of extermination over the other 190 nations in the world. There is no appetite for the destruction of Sudan

There is legitimate concern to be had over Israeli military actions in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank, but unfortunately self-declared "anti-Zionists" have used those things to bring out their prejudices into the open. I've seen posts comparing Israel to the Nazis, insinuating Jewish collaboration with the Nazis and Jewish responsibility for the Holocaust, and all of this dressed-up in journalistic language in posts meaning to discuss the Israel-Lebanon crisis.

Plus the obligatory "it's not anti-Semitic to deem Israel worthy of destruction (i.e. to be anti-Zionist)" from Hezbollah apologists.

Also watch-out for "Jewish lobby", a favourite term on certain unpleasant hate sites.

would be lucky to get the number of posts, one thread on the Israli-Arab conflict would get.

A strange obsession me thinks, the western world has with Jews.

They are for the destruction of Israel, plain and simple. And they don't care how much collective punishment they inflict on innocent people

to destroy the Palestinians and anyone in the vicinity who has property that might want that doesn't happen to be Jewish.

It's depressing how many people seem willing to just ignore them. But Israel is quite rightly not willing to do so.

They seem to be engaging in knee-jerk support of the anti-israelis for no other reason than because the repukes are steadfast supporters of israel. Another possibility is that they have a paternalistic view of the poor, persecuted brown folk who they believe have nothing but goodness and purity in their hearts. Now don't get me wrong; israel has certainly committed its own crimes; their use of military force has often been excessive, opportunistic, and reckless. They should be called to account by the US and the rest of the world, as should the hate-mongering "islamic resitance" groups.

and destroy Hezbollah? They don't have to say it, you know. We can tell by their actions in occupied territories and Lebanon.

If they wanted all Pals destroyed, why did Israel force its settlers off its Gaza settlements? Your post makes no sense.

Yeah right. :eyes: I think Rove/Cheney has the Nazi ideology down pat, Hezbollah would be Nazi-wannabes at best. So much hate and fear, just what evil people look for in a hate group.

what's your problem with that statement.