"95% of taxes in this country are paid by rich ($100k per annum) people"

I heard this from the son of my garage mechanic!

I tried to counter with the percentage of his paycheck versus the percentage of the gross of what the rich pay, but it got too complicated for him.

Need help in countering this argument next time I'm in for an oil change. This guy is 20 if he's a day! Just a kid and he believe this crap!

The precent might be off by one or two percent, but it's close; the amount per annum might actually be over $250K, but I'm not sure. It might be $100K.

Sales tax, property tax, social security tax are not as progressive as income tax.

Money is not infinite. There's only a certain amount of wealth so it stands to reason that if you have most of it, you'll pay more taxes. It's not like this is causing any children of the wealthy to go without food. So, Paris Hilton has 1 less designer bag to carry her dog around in. Is that going to kill her?

I am so sick and tired of feeling sorry for those with food, shelter, etc and money to spare....poor babies. Like Iris said their kids are not going without. In fact I think we ought to outlaw abortion for the well to do and make it free for the poor (oops, if we did that there would not be any cannon fodder). After all how can Bush and Cheney duck service if there are not the common man to take their place in the slaughtering flields.

You are a kindred spirit! I'm glad you're here!

:hi:

PS - See my post below where I tried to make more sense of this!

they benefit more from the services that taxes provide.

No one ever addresses that. Let Wal-mart try to run a store without an educated workforce. Let the Stock Market run without a Securities and Exchange Commission. Let BP deliver fuel without an interstate highway system.

Those are just a few examples of things that the wealthiest Americans have provided by "taxes" that they benefit from the most.

is a hellofa big difference than $250,000 annually...who are you kidding!

Like say a guy makes $200,000 and you make $20,000. You might pay 10% in taxes and he might pay 40%, but what do you end up with?

He has $120,000 left over. You have $18,000. Who is hurting more?

earners in this country.

To me, that's rich. I'd say anyone in the top 30% or so could be called "rich", which brings the wages down to something like $75K a year and above.

In fact, the cut off line for the top 5% income earners in the US is around $160K.

Of course, "rich" has no objective criteria by which to judge it - it is a purely subjective word.

But I think it's pretty clear that if one is in the top 5%, one should be considered "rich".

:shrug:

I guess that's not rich if you don't know how to handle your finances. But when I was a teen in the 90's, my dad was pulling in about $150k/yr and we never wanted for ANYTHING. We were RICH.

Now my wife and I combined make about $75K...and WE never want for anything, although we do have to manage our money. We live quite a comfortable lifestyle.

If you think 250K/yr isn't rich, I think that says loads about your background. Do you have to own multiple houses and employ maids and a waitstaff to be considered rich? I've always considered that to be more FILTHY RICH than just plain rich.

Remember... "only little people pay taxes."

I haven't read any stats on who pays what, but it really depends on who you call 'rich.' If you mean upper middle class, then you might have a case. They're not rich enough to dodge taxes. But here's something to chew on. When I got married, I made about 40K a year and paid around 12K in taxes. I married into a wealthy family and my (now ex) wife has a pretty nice trust fund on which she lives. Our combined income the following year was about 250K and our taxes went down to about 10K. So, an increase of over 200K actually decreased our taxes. This is only anecdotal evidence, but I'm not buying the notion that the rich pay most of the taxes. They have so many loop holes that they avoid most taxes all together. The money just piles up.

the top 50% pay 95% of the taxes.



And the top 50% of income earners are those earning more than about $50K a year.

The top 5% are those earning more than about $155K a year.

50% of taxes are paid by those earning more than $157K.

You look him right in the eye and then say: "Take out your last paystub, look at it, and then tell me that again".

for themselves. Naturally as wealth concentrates in the hands of some upper percentile their representation in the income tax as a group will have to go up, if no changes are made to the tax code.
Their combined share of the income tax is not the rate at which they pay individually.
It's not a measure therefore of how wonderfully generous they are, but instead of how little they share the wealth with the people who work to create it.

What was the little jerk's point anyway--that the rich should have more votes and run the country for their exclusive benefit because of a figure like that?

I'm tired of hearing about the "poor, overburdened rich people" -- if it's so fucking tough then why do so many seek to suffer even more?

It's bullshit! People who work for their income pay more than double the top income tax rate as those who have unearned income from the labors of others!

one day. If they take 100 apples from someone who has 10000 apples, will he even notice?

Trying to keep it simple for him.

Best arguments are those that are kept simple "keep it simple stupid" is a practice whereby everybody gets it!

A 21 year old were I work never heard of NAFTA.....it could be hopeless

It's sad. Fox News has just brainwashed people. I tried with this young guy's dad, telling him that only Democratic presidents have helped people like him, such as

a) Social Security (FDR)

b) VA and GI benefits (Truman)

c) Medicare (Johnson)

Plus the HOPE tax credits for education (which I actually benefitted from), as my husband was unemployed for a period of time and I wanted to go back to grad school.

Better off than many people to be sure but definitely not rich. They do pay the most dollars in income taxes.

From the US Treasurer's website:

Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 90 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000 and 2001, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.

The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will fall from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent.

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/js1287.htm

There is no way you could live in NYC or SF on 100K.

Or, if you're IN Manhattan, you confine yourself to the few remaining "undesirable" neighborhoods>

Don't know SF well...

Even $100,000 annually would make me think I'm in hog heaven.

I said they better off than many people. But they are definitely not rich if they are earning $100,000 per year.

They are better off than MOST.

$100k is a lot of money. Unless a person is living outside of their means (or has had huge medical expenses), there is no reason why such a person should have difficulty "getting by".

and the size of their family, wouldn't it?

I'm single and better off than some of my friends with kids. Yet they make more money than I do. A LOT more.

BTW I never said they had difficulty "getting by" on $100k per year. I said they were NOT rich at $100k per year. That's a big difference in terms.

These are people with incredibly high taxable incomes. Most truly wealthy people don't even work or draw a salary. They live off unearned income and most of that can be put into non taxable trusts. This I know from first hand experience...

-US had a huge, vigorous economy.
-US had the best Universities & Public schools.
-The middle class was huge.
-Labor unions power at peak.
-US is manufacturing center of World.
-Corporations made money.


The point being, if it wasn't broken.... why fix it? And yet thats whaty exactly happened. From the 1970's thru to GW Bush. The Tax system has now been rewriten by the corporations.

so owning 99% of wealth and paying 95% of taxes means they are getting a deal!

Top 1% control 65% of the wealth in this country. Damn! Bunch of whiners!

were're only talking about those who make over 100k. This is probably about the top 15% or so.

taught.

The lower socioeconomic groups pay higher proportions of thier income in taxes than the rich, especially when you include FICA, sales taxes, motor vehicle fuel taxes, licenses, etc.

Also, if the rich pay 95% of income taxes, they also harvest 99% of the income, thus coming out 'way ahead. It's just that most of their income isn't in the form of wages. They have a variety of dodges, from being paid in the form of stock options to getting their income in the form of capital gains, that effectively reduce their tax burden.

making $100k a year that has ever thought they are rich.

those people making above $100k and still bitching about money are in one of the following categories:

They spend way too much on "beating the Joneses". They are likely spending outside of their means and have a $30k car and a house they really couldn't afford.

They live in a high cost of living area. Once again, if that's really hurting them that much, they should consider moving farther away - or see what it's like to live on $30k in that same city - and believe it or not there are people that make it on even less.

They have an actual genuine reason that they have lost a lot of money. Maybe they had huge medical expenses. In that case, I can understand, because anyone can rack up huge medical debt, even those somewhat careful with how they spend their money.

Would they?

their burden. I love these idiots that think the rich have it so hard and they want to look out for the rich because one day they will be rich.

rich? And I will qualify that by adding monetarily rich?

therefore they want to be able to reap the benefits that the rich do today. I don't quite understand the mentality that causes people to believe they will be rich. Some think that if they work hard, they will be justly rewarded. Others are sure they're going to hit the lottery. They don't seem to realize how unlikely and unrealistic it is. I also once saw a survey that showed that many people think they're richer than they are. I don't remember the exact details, but it was something like 10% of people thinking they are among the top 1%, and maybe 25% thinking they are among the top 10%, so some think they are already being helped by policies that only benefit those at the very top. (Figures are inexact, but show the tenor of the thinking.)

There must be some way to explain it in very simple terms.

We should come up with an answer.

Like say a guy makes $200,000 and you make $20,000. You might pay 10% in taxes and he might pay 40%, but what do you end up with?

He has $120,000 left over. You have $18,000. Who is hurting more?

:rofl: Why bother trying to convince a working bee, that he is getting screwed big time?

about the super rich paying too much. On whose back did they reap the bucks? Sounds like some sort of brainwashing.

against raising the minimum wage.

:banghead: Rank and file republicans continually vote against their own financial best interests because they believe their Party leaders hype of "work hard and prosper" bs! The proverbial carrot hanging in front of them, that they are never allowed to grab! Morans!

takes all.

and property taxes, and the balance tips right over.
Property and payroll taxes hit the low-income worker particularly hard; those with wealth that is unearned (capital gains, interest income, investment dividends, etc.) do not pay payroll taxes on it.

taxes. They can't wrap their heads around city taxes, property taxes and most don't even grasp capital gains, because it doesn't affect them. Property taxes in my county have increased substantially since ** as our Gov. spent our surplus, that our Democratic Governor left him. Sound familiar?

"95 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot"

why are you worried about something a stupid kid pulled out of his ass?

he invented it on the spot and you gave him the drama reward of taking it seriously

the correct answer was to laugh in his face and find a new mechanic who keeps politics out of the workplace, i would never be comfortable taking my car there again because i am well aware that wingnuts think they are justified in mistreating progressives

there should have never been a political discussion to allow your mechanic to find out your private political beliefs in the first place!

i guarantee you that he can't do it

I can never understand working stiffs who are upset over the raw deal that rich people get from the government.

Here's the problem with the rich paying 95% of all the taxes --

THE RICH SHOULD BE PAYING 100 FUCKING PER CENT OF ALL THE TAXES!

People whose income is less than $100,000 should NOT be required to pay ANY taxes at all!!

that is the secret of all republican memes. Simple hypothesis that can't be debunked without an extremely complicated answer. Their eyes glaze over and they fall back in lockstep. I don't know why we can't get together as a party and think up counter memes for all their platforms. This is exactly what they do for us and it works. I wish we could understand this, truth is, dems respect people way too much to hit them upside the heads with slogans like the repukes do. But then we don't have snappy answers when we need them. If your answer is longer than a sentence or two, it's no good. It would be nice to have a dollar amount for how much revenue this country loses each year in tax shelters to the rich. It's got to be in gazillions. We spent two chapters on that in my paralegal class and I was stunned, just utterly and completely stunned; for every opportunity the gov't has to tax them there is a loophole just perfectly crafted for them to escape paying, particularly with inherited money and assets.

and netted 888.

So, I (and folks like me) arent paying the lions share of taxes?

The kid is being a know-it-all kid...he will figure it out when he gets older.
I'd just call him a moron and be done with it.

First of all, it's only Income taxes; for all of us pay the same on every bite of food we eat; the gasoline we burn; the clothes we wear; public transporation; utilities; medical bills; auto insurance,
vehicle licensing; etc., etc., We have so very little left when we get through, so per-capita, we really pay an equal amount. :think: :nopity: :nopity:

the Gates family should consider India, or the Marianas...

Sorry to see them go, but, heh :crazy:

etc...

paid only 5%?

In order bring about that state of affairs the tax brackets would have to be arranged so that ordinary people paid MOST of their income to the state, and the richest 5% got to keep almost all of their income.
Ask the little fuck how happy that would make him for his dad, the mechanic, to pay nearly everything he made in taxes while Ken Lay was paying almost nothing.

And then talk about all the middle class Republicans who whine all the time about being overtaxed and how wrong they are. Those people are getting a great deal! All those weirdos who get angry and call up talk radio about how much they are being robbed have no idea how good they have it. Somebody else is paying almost the whole tab.

That confuses the dittohead.

fair is fair.

handled by the wealthiest; they're the ones most easily able to afford it.

You want poor people to pay the most in taxes? Nahhhhh...

Don't let them baffle you with this lame position. Just claim it, own and appreciate that the wealthy handle the tax load. It's a GOOD thing.

Operation Yellow Elephant - go!

Confuse the lil twerp - get him to try and explain why coroprations don't pay their taxes:
http://www.corporatepolicy.org/topics/budget.htm

about the huge signing bonus he'll get. But don't remind him if he gets wounded and returns to the US he'll have to repay the bonus! !@#$%^

all, they have all the money) and give us cheap labor workers a real tax cut!