I'm beginning to think that Christianity is being gripped by insanity.

Yesterday, I read this distrubing story about the obscene influence the radical Christian right has on our government... to the point of obtaining lists of who are the homosexuals in charitable agencies receiving federal tax money and questioning people with 'Jewish' sounding names, making them gather these lists! This is the same type of insanity that the Nazis used to blind the German people.

<snip>
The words that they use for that is "religious freedom in hiring rights." Religious groups have been able to get government checks for a long time. But they used to have to abide by 1956 civil rights law which has an exemption for religious groups. So, if you're a church you can prefer Christians, mosques can prefer Muslims, but the catch has always been that if you're contracting with the government, then you have to abide by the same civil rights laws as everybody else. Bush, by executive order, overturned that so that government-funded charities are no longer bound by the laws. Now, there is job training, drug treatment and preschool programs that are totally separate. The job is 100-percent taxpayer funded, but they can say in the help-wanted ad, "Christians only."

Bush wanted to get the Salvation Army aboard the faith-based initiatives. The Salvation Army then brought in a consultant to Christianize certain divisions. He asked the human resources director at the Salvation Army headquarters, Maureen Schmidt, whether one of the human resource staffers at the social services division, Margaret Geissman, was Jewish, because she had a "Jewish sounding name." Schmidt told him that she wasn't. So then he went to her and said, "I want a list of homosexuals who work there."



So quick to judge everything that they don't even want to try to understand, Christians will demonize other religions, such as Wicca, which practices what is described as witchcraft. Such is the case with this story about a church that was vandalized, probably by children, but the paster only sees some organized anti-christ going after all of Christendom.

Church leaders are dismayed by vandalism
Pastor suspects perps 'dabbling in witchcraft'

By Monica Pryts
Herald Staff Writer

WEST SALEM TOWNSHIP —
Police are still investigating what they described as a hate crime at a West Salem Township church, but the pastor has his own theories as to who spray-painted satanic messages and drawings on the property.

“They must be dabbling in witchcraft, probably young people who were drinking and got carried away,” said the Rev. Floyd Smith, pastor of In Spirit and In Truth Fellowship Church, 410 Kinsman Road.

<snip>
Smith said a church is supposed to be an influence for good in the community and he’s trying to turn the incident into a learning experience. He said he thinks it’s a shame young people are being hit with anti-Christ practices, such as not being able to pray in school or use the word “God” in the Pledge of Allegiance.

“I’m thinking about some kind of community awareness campaign. We have to get back to what made our nation strong,” Smith said.

I fear, that if this trend continues, we are all headed for some very 'interesting times' in the near future. It's all so insane. It's obvious to me that radical right Christians have a persecution complex; wish to persecute others while claiming that they are the ones being persecuted. Why people who have intelligence that work in our federal government can't see this or are allowing this to happen is beyond me.

who let fundy churches meet in the gym, but would not let democrats hold caucuses there. What is up with that and why is it tolerated?

but the Girl Scouts, which will allow any to join, is not allowed to use school facilities.

Equal access requires a school that allows ANY group to meet on their property, to allow ALL groups to meet under the same conditions (ie; if one group has to pay for custodians, all groups have to pay, etc)

We were informed that they were overbooked for facilities but then accepted a Boy Scout group a month later. The group had just formed a week and a half before being given the room.

We made some complaints and a local church offered us a large room and use of their kitchen for free. They know that some groups, such as Girl Scouts, are under attack right now and they have been kind to us when others haven't been.

Interesting that some of our biggest critics have been fundamentalists. These are the same fundamentalists who got most of the troops kicked out of the school and now get to hold their groups there.

Even when my Cadettes and Senior did a unit on birth control, opened a condom to see what it looked like (one of the extra lubricated ones...slimy) and left it in the trash can. Although nobody ever said anything to us about it, I had to wonder what that teacher thought the next morning knowing that it was Girl Scouts who used her room at night.

Some of the fundie and evan groups are now forming their own groups for their girls to attend instead of joining GS. One of the little girls in my daughter's class wanted to join and gave my daughter her phone number so that I could call and give her parents info about meetings. The father completely and totally chewed my ass up one side and down the other, stating that GS taught girls to be more like men and that we would be going to hell for our teachings. He was especially upset about women's history, the environment, learning anything about our bodies and about "the gay agenda" in GS.

They are a minority but they are quite vocal and they are trying to take over.

LOL! I've been thinking the "Christians" or better yet, X-tians, have lost their collective minds for the last 4 years. They are nothing like Christ, nothing at all. I see them all as a bunch of self righteous hypocrites who want the rule the world.

They need to go away.

What I don't understand is why people who, ten or twenty years ago would've called these wing nuts on this, now go along with their demented agenda. I just felt like kvetching about it today.

I'm with ya! ;-)

that their cross on the hilltop or their ten commandments in the courthouse, or their god on the money isn't hurting anybody.

for international work. So we would officially be funding missionaries overseas. :grr:

and boycott them on principle. Anyone who is marketing their wallpapering business as "Christian" I don't need to do business with.

in their advertising.

its a sure bet that they will consider me to not be acceptable to their views. :shrug:

That irks me to no end.

but I would also like one of those books. But I'm afraid I'd end up not being able to do business with about 90% of the businesses in my neck of the woods!

Christianity has always been a brutal, authoritative religion. Jesus was brutal....his main words...give up your will and follow me, or get thrown into the lake of fire. Nothing too nice about that.

The liberal and moderate versions are an anomaly. Liberal christians represent at most, 5-10% of all christians. Mainline, moderate churches are stagnant or dying on the vine. These churches have mistakenly preached of Jesus as a loving figure...but fail to mention the lake of fire, weeping and eternal suffering threats.

This is why all the growth is in televangelists and evangelical type mega churches. They are built around a strong, dynamic and authoritative personalities - looking to get political and radical - and promise of the vengeful Jesus. The old line churches like the baptists and catholics are following suit.

A bad sign.

We as Christians can display our religious symbols.

The cross on the hilltop or the ten commandments in the courthouse, or God on the money isn't hurting anybody.

Religious freedom lets us have that. If someone wants a different symbol get with your group and ask for it to be added, but leave our symbols alone. If you don't have a symbol, that is your right. You do not have to display anything.

"We as Christians can display our religious symbols.

The cross on the hilltop or the ten commandments in the courthouse, or God on the money isn't hurting anybody"

Yes, you can display your symbols...ON -YOUR- PROPERTY. If that hilltop is public property, it also belongs to me and I'd rather see it bare. It also belongs to my Jewish neighbor and the Muslim family down the street and for you to put a cross there says that they aren't welcome.

The 10 Commandments in the courthouse doesn't hurt anybody? No, probably not. But the atheist, the Buddhist and the Hindu can see that they will never be accorded true justice when their sacred texts are ignored.

God on the money. Yes, there it belongs. Because it is your god. Of course, you don't understand that it was put there by a group that you would consider 'godless', being affiliated with the Catholic church. Same for the Pledge of Allegiance. Funny how the Baptist minister who wrote that DELIBERATELY left out any mention of god, isn't it?

A case, in example....what about This person's symbol? This man, who died serving his country is being denied to display his religious symbol because some people believe it to be Satanic?!! Another example of the insanity of Christianity taking over our country!

I'm a Christian but I believe that he should have been allowed to display his symbol. I wouldn't demand of anyone to display a cross when they do not hold those beliefs and would expect the same consideration from others.

This isn't even about religion so much as it is about common courtesy and respect. We, as a people, have lost all forms of respect for those who are the least bit different than ourselves. The saddest part is that we don't even care that it has happened.

You all know what my symbol of hope and faith is right now. I dont want to rehash it for a while.

displayed in the courthouse or on the money? Wouldn't hurt anybody, right? What if a school principal was Muslim and wished to install a crescent moon and star display on school grounds? Or a Jewish principal and a star of David?

I'm in complete support of separation of Church and State and I understand why it is necessary to keep politics out of the Church -- Nothing wrong with religious symbols, just keep them out of Gov't because politicians will use religion for their own goals. As you can see, a leader can give Christian's a few morsels and they pledge their blind following to that leader no matter what other fruit he bares.

The Bible speaks of Christian's following the WRONG leader (wolf in sheep's clothing).. Beware, that could happen someday!

I don't believe that we should have any mention of God on our money and I refuse to say "under God" whenever I say the Pledge of Allegience.

Both feel wrong, as does the commercialization of the cross. Let's face it-Christianity has become commericialized and that's just disgustingly wrong on so many levels.

It's not a subject I feel comfortable discussing on end because of others beliefs but that is how I feel.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

"get thrown into the lake of fire"

If you follow the wrong leader or hang with the wrong crowd they will lead you to hell. That's easy to see in everyday life. Wisdom.

Jesus taught a lot of things, many allegorical, that could be regarded as generally accepted universal widsom.

Just because people call themselves Christians doesn't mean their actions are Christ-like.

IOW, don't blame Jesus when devious people use him in their advertising.

Some car dealers use big American flags in their TV spots, but that doesn't mean they really represent what America stands for.

give up your will and follow me...or my father will throw you in the lake of fire on judgement day? Perhaps these religious wingnuts DO follow jesus.

My OP wasn't talking about anyone 'being Christ-like', but possessing a form of insanity. Waving flags to gain attention for selling cars is not a real good comparison to using federal tax money for gathering list of homosexuals.

The "fine-ness" has worn off and we are left with only the madness.

How many people has humanity now killed in the name of God?

the seeds of most religion..

These never coexist well with science, fact and reality

Michelle Goldbergs new book.

Check it out.



From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. In an impressive piece of lucid journalism, Salon.com reporter Goldberg dives into the religious right and sorts out the history and networks of what to most liberals is an inscrutable parallel universe. She deconstructs "dominion theology," the prevalent evangelical assertion that Christians have a "responsibility to take over every aspect of society." Goldberg makes no attempt to hide her own partisanship, calling herself a "secular Jew and ardent urbanite" who wrote the book because she "was terrified by America's increasing hostility to... cosmopolitan values." This carefully researched and riveting treatise will hardly allay its audience's fears, however; secular liberals and mainstream believers alike will find Goldberg's descriptions of today's culture wars deeply disturbing. She traces the deep financial and ideological ties between fundamentalist Christians and the Republican Party, and discloses the dangers she believes are inherent to the Bush administration's faith-based social services initiative. Other chapters follow inflammatory political tactics on wedge issues like gay rights, evolution and sex education. Significantly, her conclusions do not come off as hysterical or shrill. Even while pointing to stark parallels between fascism and the language of the religious right, Goldberg's vision of America's future is measured and realistic. Her book is a potent wakeup call to pluralists in the coming showdown with Christian nationalists. (May 15)

to Christian fundamentalists that they are Christians.

Interesting, yes.

Crazy people can be confident about things average sane people can't, helping memes replicate in numbers and environments they wouldn't normally attain. Even when the host drowns her children or slaughters millions people who won't host that particular meme, it is the host that is blamed rather than the meme, netting it a greater distribution throughout the populace.

The smaller churches, the good christians , the dissenters voices are being drown out.

Speaking as a mainstream Presbyterian, even as one with a sometimes erratic attendance, the conflating and tarring of all Christianity, as apposed to distinguishing between liberal mainstream and fundie always makes me uncomfortable.

That said, I'm a very big advocate for separation of church and state.

they believed that a man-god rose from the dead and saved humanity from an eternity in a fiery underworld. 2,000 years ago.

:shrug:

After all, Christianity is a lot like other monotheistic religions which have appeared throughout the history of humanity. One such myth is the Isis-Osiris tale where the son, Horus is born from the 'risen' dead father's loins. The insanity part comes from wing-nuts taking their religious myths waaaay too literal and then demanding that the rest of humanity conform to their view, which they have done repeatedly throughout history, always expecting a different result this time! Now that is insanity.

As far as I can tell, only 3 of the 10 Commandments are actually secular laws, so what is the rationale for displaying all ten of them in courthouses?

How would you feel if...

your courthouse displayed a sign saying, "Buddha is the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have other gods before him"?

your money carried the words, "In Allah We Trust"?

your children were required to recite (or listen to) the words "one nation under Yahweh" each day at school?

the faith-based initiatives your taxes funded were Wiccan?

every few miles along the highway there is a 100-foot tall statue of Buddha staring at you (not even attached to a temple)?

Does imagining these things give you a glimmer of understanding of how in-your-face Christian symbols & rituals make people of other faiths feel? Wouldn't you feel marginalized if you were them? Oppressed?

What is the purpose of all this public display if not indoctrination of OTHERS? Surely YOU don't need them.

The bible says, "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV). How do you reconcile this with Christians' demands for school prayers etc.?

I would really like an answer to these questions.

(BTW, I was raised Catholic & went to Catholic schools for 12 years.)

Insanity is using the name "Christianity" to cover their insane asses..they are no more Christian than the Devil.

Jesus musta been a prophet cause it says(so I'm told) in the Bible that there will be those who use His name falsely and by Gawd if hasn't happened.

long as it's not forced on others. I'm not going to trample on your beliefs because if I did, then I would be just like the Fundy's. This is about free choice and respecting others choice and that just happens to be core Democrat values.