I am so fucking sick of Hillary bashing at DU

For two years at least, there's been a constant ripping away at Hillary Clinton here. Always, always, the threads are negative. It's a given that the regressives want to bring her down--she's a serious threat to them. She's smart as hell.

What's perplexing is how these threads constantly surface and gain support from DUers. At this point, Hillary can all but hang it up if you go by those who've joined the ranks of the negative DU Hillary brigade. Personally, I believe that those who bash her and call themselves DUers have drank a tad bit of the kool aid. And I won't begin to go into the other Dem bashing threads here...

If you don't like Hillary, or the Dems, then take your negativity somewhere else--the name of this forum was not Republican Underground last time I checked. I'm tired of it. (And yes, I know how to use the "ignore" feature :eyes:)

Big tent here.

I like Barbara Boxer, but don't care much for Hillary Clinton. She is a corporate tool as far as I'm concerned.

I would vote for Clinton if she got the nomination though.

OK?

they could have a field day with her. White water Swift boats ahoy.

I like Hillary, I don't like the move to the center, I would rather have a prgressive lose than vote for someone who doesnt back up their convictions

...and McCain would win by a huge margin, which he may achieve regardless of which dem gets the ticket.

place as any number of others I have been to. She's not a god and she hasn't got immunity from the consequences of what she does and doesn't do. Not her. Not asswipe in the white house.

Hillary is a calculating politician of average competence who towed the Bush line when it really mattered: when she could have made a real difference to avoid a war that anyone who hadn't drunk the Kool Aid knew was a disaster waiting to happen. She didn't go up against the war when it mattered because she planned on running for president and she believed that it was less risky to support the war than to oppose it from a politically strategic standpoint, "right" and "wrong" be damned.

The democratic party is brain dead if it thinks it can attract voters to candidates because, well, they are democrats. There's no there, there.

I bash any war supporting dem. Sorry.

We really need to stop the bashing of Hillary Clinton. Like it or not, she will most likely be our candidate in 2008. Last thing we need is to give the mouth breathers on the Reich Wing fuel for the fire.

She made a mistake. So did many Democrats. The Democrats aren't perfect. There is alot the party believes in that I don't. But they are a better option than what the Republicans offer us.

So where has she been supporting Murtha or any other democrat like him who has been calling out for with drawl? Has she? Has she apologized like Kerry and other democrats for their vote? Nope. Sorry she'll never be my nominee. And if she is the nominee of the democratic party than sorry but I'm fed up with shit. We need someone who will clean up this mess. Not keep it the same.

Gee, and here I thought we actually were allowed
to choose our candidate via some sort of DEMOCRATIC process!

Now I know better.
Now I know that the one person most likely to guarantee a Repub victory in 08
is gonna be "our" candidate, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT.

I feel so stupid....
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

When are the "Hillary in 08" crowd gonna realize
that this whole "inevitable nominee" crap is a transparent
right-wing ploy?

And it's not even a SNEAKY ploy, or a new one;
it's as old as the hills, and 100 years ago it was the basic premise
for one of the most popular CHILDREN'S STORIES of all time.

"Oh please, Br'er Democrat, don't toss Hillary into that Presidential race!"

I don't get it.

and total denigration of her. Hell the Republicons don't need to worry about Hillary, we'll take care of her for them.

Pro-war and don't pull out of Iraq

Flag Burning amendment

Her office floated the idea for anti-abortion legislation

New York still doesn't have the unified communications system that is desperately needed, as evidenced by 9/11.

I don't like her, I believe she is just as far up the asses of the corporations and the powers that be, electing her would be just like electing one of them.

I also believe the repukes are pushing the idea of her as our candidate. They know they can bet her. Most folks I know see her as condescending and phony.

I don't have to leave, but if you are uncomfortable, you can start a Hillary forum and post to your heart's content and find little, if any opposition.

What has she done?

Give me a reason to like her.

I mean, supporting the war, not calling for the immediate withdrawal of troops, supporting the flag burning amendment, supporting some crazy legislation about video games and morals, not voting for or against -- hell being absent for the vote on the bankruptcy bill that totally screwed the middle class and lower class members of our society, nothing yet for New York after 9/11 and that effort she made relative to anti-abortion legislation are all good, very good reasons for me to dislike her.

Give me good reasons to like her besides being the wife of a former president.

The repukes want to make the vote as close as possible, stick us with the one least likely to win, that way they can steal it again. (Folks in my area think she is either a fool or just as amoral as Big Dawg, she let him get away with publically humilating her.)

what has Wesley Clark done, or John Dean, or any of the other dem reps who don't get bashed incessantly at DU? From what I hear most of the time, none of them do anything. But you don't see them being ripped apart two or three times a week.

And this discussion is not about Dean or Clark, it is about Hillary and why I should stop bashing her.

So, convince me I should stop bashing her by telling me what she had done. It is really rather simple.


(FYI- Dean is doing one hell of a job as head of DNC - if Hillary had 1/5th of his gumption, if she stood up for what she used to profess she believed in, then I might not bash her.)

to declare merh the winner by default ? I think so.

For staying on subject, citation of fact, and refusing to yield. I proudly give merh the "Salute of Ownage" :patriot:

I bash Hillary as well, and DREAD the idea of her running simply b/c the clout of her name. She hasn't done enough to differentiate herself from the repukes. The logic of the OP is lacking. Accusing those who don't like her of siding w/ the rethugs :eyes: . Simply put, they bash her b/c of some residual hatred from the Clinton Presidency, and WE dislike her b/c no matter how much she is denigrated as a liberal or progressive, she's actually middle of the spectrum leaning right.

I want someone who reflects my views and my politics, NOT someone who is accepted b/c they are "under the big tent." I want a TRUE LIBERAL, not some pandering sycophant.

Bottom Line : I'd support Boxer a million times over before I'd support Hillary.

I want someone who reflects my views and my politics, NOT someone who is accepted b/c they are "under the big tent." I want a TRUE LIBERAL, not some pandering sycophant.

Bottom Line : I'd support Boxer a million times over before I'd support Hillary.

I refuse to support her strictly because she is a female or is married to the former president and her name is known.

I want someone with guts, someone willing to take a stand for the people and what is right and against the corporations.

a sure loser.

All the old GOP attacks will be brought out, and they'll all work. Why tie us to a loser?
You know Hillary can't get elected, so why no try for something better?

:patriot:

John Dean is the lawyer who worked for Nixon who has out his book "Worse than Watergate."

Maybe you arent reading closely enough? He has alot of supporters who come out of the woodwork, the clarkies are nothing if not organized! Must have been Basic training and getting up at 4am! :hi: :patriot:

This is not a swipe at Clark , or his backers, just a post that points out he gets criticized around here by his detractors, as every candidate should be.
IE. Kucinich gets criticism as being "unrealistic" or a gnome by the DLC-backers. Ok, maybe they don't call him a gnome, but still. :D

discussion board, not

agreement board.

"discussion board, not agreement board." I think I'll steal that from ya! :evilgrin:

Where have you been? I see it daily.

As to Hillary...as others have noted, what has she done lately to further the Democratic cause?

My objection to Hillary is the fact that her electability is next to nil. She may be ok as a Senator but as a Presidential candidate... she will never win.

Oh please! Dean and Clark bashing here? *snort* If that's true than I'm Britney Spears!

You're right! I don't see him ripped apart here twice a week. :rofl:

He's out there fighting against them by campaigning for Dem candidates all over the country. He's out there formulating plans to get out troops out of Iraq - safely. He's out there trying to get our veterans benefits. He's out there LEADING.

What has Hillary done? None of that, that's for sure.

i hate it when people answer a question with a question.

Misogyny is rampant in our society, and just the fact that she was elected as a Democrat is a good thing. Then there's her trying to get the horribly broken medical and medical insurance industry fixed with Universal Care in the 1990s.

Then there are these things from her web site:

Senator Clinton Urges President to Approve New York Food Stamp Increase to Offset Higher Heating Costs

Senator Clinton Announces Legislation to Protect Children in and Around Vehicles

Clinton Legislation to Crack Down on Sex Offenders Approved by Key Senate Committee

Senator Clinton Highlights Pressing Needs of Youth Aging Out of Foster Care System

Clinton, Nadler, Community Leaders Call on EPA to Fix World Trade Center Air Quality Testing & Clean-Up Plan

Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the Release of the EPA’s World Trade Center Testing Plan

Senator Clinton Calls Upon HHS Secretary Leavitt to Ensure that Decisions Made on Vaccine Against Cervical Cancer Are Based on Science, Not Ideology

Clinton-Sponsored Amendment to Promote Equal Pay for Men and Women Passes Senate

Senator Clinton Cosponsors Legislation Naming October Domestic Violence Awareness Month

http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/

doesn't make her my choice for a candidate. The most important issues we face today involve the abandonment of or theft of our civil liberties Her stance on the flag burning amendment, her floating a test balloon on abortion, her being absence for the bankruptcy bill vote, prove she really is out of touch with the party she purports to me a member of.

What she did in the 90's hasn't even been pursued in this decade. I don't give a damn about what she did out of office, it is what has she done since being in office and how has she compromised.

Many of the items you list are just positions -- or thank god, awareness weeks -- or calling for action -- nothing of substance. IMHO, for the period of time she has been in office, that list you present is really a poor showing. But heck, she isn't my senator and she won't be my candidate either.

IMHO, she is just as bad as any repug. The issues that matter she caves on.

I actually provide stances of hers that are strong Democratic positions and you explain them away. You asked for anything that would allow you to support her, and I provided them.

Why am I not surprised??

her stance on domestic violence week and/or the need to have the EPA test the air in New York. Those are a give me for ANY politician, male or female - especially if they are the NY senator.

You have yet to provide me with anything relative to her position regarding HEALTH CARE NOW, the Katrina survivors, the adequate funding for medical care today, care for those in poverty -- and you cannot explain away her repuglike positions relative to our civil liberties and her refusal to admit the war is wrong and/or to support the position that we need to withdraw, or her obvious absence and silence regarding the bankruptcy reform bill.

Why am I not surprised?

by supporting the previous attempt with her vote to make serfs of the poor. I also agree that she is the re:puke:s first choice for Dem candidate in '08, they know she is too divisive and they will beat her.

thanks for the info!

:hi:

Bill's surgery was scheduled that day to avoid this vote? If I recall it was the 'corrective' operation to clean up the scar tissue and I'm also pretty sure a former President and current Senator can get surgery scheduled anytime they want.

Wicked sycophant - that is all she has become.

Don't they know that we want a hero, that we thirst for someone to stand up to the Neocons, to stand up to the corporations, to stand up for US?

:argh:

the 90's either. She made a good show of doing so but if you really follow her actions you would find SHE dropped the ball on her own. She DOES lean way to the right of what I'm comfortable with and I am in total agreement with you merh, what has she done for THIS party really?

on playing the "misogyny" card! My dislike of her politics has nothing to do with her sexual plumbing. I love women. I'm married to one. (Like that? There's the opposite of your misogyny card) Really sorta shows a level of desperation in the pro-Hillary camp when you see that sad, tired tripe come out.

There are some nice initiatives in your list for New York. Good on her. That's her job.

Some would say that she's such a shrewd political playa that she's still flying under the radar. That's a leap of faith I'm not willing to make. Wrong is wrong anytime it rears its ugly head. And the war is wrong. And she apparently can't see that. She's also blind to the fact that the Constitution is more important than the flag. But we must pander, mustn't we?

Being married doesn't mean you aren't a misogynist; that's faulty logic. And if you think that misogyny is 'sad, tired tripe' you know nothing about women's lives. Strong women have always been a threat to weak men.

You must be feeling oppressed today!

"Help, help! I'm being repressed!" /Monty Python off

If you weren't so oppressed, you'd notice I used the marriage argument as sarcasm.

But, nonetheless, you can't see that Hillary is not a good presidential candidate based not upon her sexual rigging, but upon the stands she's taken on things like, oh, the killing of 100,000+ Iraqi civilians (even the women), the flag burning business, and that deep-seated desire to censor things. Or are those political positions results of her oppression, too?

Jeebuss! :spray: :rofl:

And for the record, misogyny isn't the sad, tired tripe. It's the use of misogyny to explain away objections to a candidate who wants to be treated as equal until the political heat gets kicked up a notch. Bam! Misogyny!

than a single, working mother who gets little to no child support and no welfare assistance, even making peanuts).

I don't like her. I think she's fine for New York and is a smart woman; however, I don't think she's good for the country. She won't flip any red or purple states and may even lose the Democrats one or two blue ones.

I am no misogynist, but, honey, there are many, many, many swing voters who are and they will NOT vote for Hillary or any woman while we're in a war (or pulling out of one or starting a new one).

Now, do you want to win in 2008 or do you want to yell that certain DUers hate powerful women? Which is it?

And don't call me honey.

I can say that anybody hates anybody else if I want to - this is America. And to ask if I want to win in 2008 or not is just plain stupid.

Now you, as with the other two, are on ignore.

wanting to win in 2008 is stupid.

I'm not putting her on "ignore." I've never done that to a single person here. The exchange is more important than that.

Isn't the "ignore" function the cyber equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and squaling "lalalalalalala?"

:rofl: :spray:

We call EVERYONE "honey" down here. ;)

Most excellently expressed!

I'm a woman and have been a fighting feminist for 40 years and I call your misogyny label crap. You people are getting desperate. Yes, Hillary WILL be the nominee in 2008 -- the Iowa Caucus (in the back pockets of the DLC) will see to that. But she'll lose ALL 50 STATES. That is guaranteed. And cut the misogyny crap -- save it for the REAL misogynists -- like the fundies.

IS condescending and phony. I never thought I'd ever say that about her, but unfortunately, it's true.

as mentioned in your post point to a fundamentally flawed political strategy.
Hillary is still operating within the outdated "Third Way" framework.
Third Way triangulation was functional (yet disastrous for progress) while there were two parties in Washington.
Third Way implies two other ways. Those days ended 5 years ago.
The federal government is now a one-party state, making a third way approach impossible.
Attempted triangulation, within a one party state, will be interpreted as appeasement.
Hillary has enormous energy and ability. She just needs to abandon what worked for her husband 10 years ago and update her strategy.

and she still supports the war, considered backing abortion legislation (the test balloon proved that she was a fool to even think about it) and she supported flag burning legislation and did not support the regular folks when the bankruptcy legislation was pending.

Label it how you like, she is still weak in character and will not be my candidate.

the nod. gee, I wonder why???? :eyes:

When Freerepublic and the insane hannity.com forums pray (literally) for Hillary to be our nominee, you know it's not the right choice.

I want democrats to WIN.

It won't happen with Hillary as our candidate for president.

That isn't being a regressive. That is being realistic.

whole notion that we all have to agree all the time, just because we're members of the same party. We're always bashing republicans for constantly squashing disagreement among themselves and insisting on conformity no matter what,yet you're doing the same thing here.

Hillary? How many people have they defamed/threatened and worse--things that we rail about daily. Yet, some fall in line with them when they tear down a dem candidate.

That makes sense. :sarcasm:

Our backwards country is so sexist, and stupid, a woman has little chance to win anyway.

Throw a Hillary in the mix, and forget about it.

You may not like to hear that stuff. But it's the awful truth...

and don't forget, Hillary in the White House has the subterranean threat of BILL back in the White House. This will sell real well to the Repug base.

response to republicans. Not everyone's actions and beliefs are in response to what the republicans say or do. Sometimes, it is based on the candidate's OWN actions and words.

Of course, that implies that you would have to recognize that DINO's exist in the party. Not everything is all rainbows and roses.

Want total party "unity"? Get rid of the DINO's. yeaaa, like that'll happen real soon....






edit for typo.

(as to the repukes wanting her to win) remind me suspiciously of the 2002 gubernatorial election in Florida. I was a very strong Janet Reno supporter. But there seemed to be a move to push Bill McBride as the odds-on favorite candidate. I suspected then, as I suspect now, that McBride was touted as someone who could beat Bush, when, in fact, the opposite was true. Bush clearly feared Reno as the Dem candidate more than McBride.

McBride was inarticulate, bumbling, embarrassing. He also worked for a law firm who seemed to support Republican candidates as a matter of course (although McBride himself seemed to support Democrats).

This whole Hillary thing smells like a similar setup to me (misogynist that I am).

worry about Hillary because she's fast turning into one of them and is nothing but a corporatocratist (geez, did I just make up a word?) now, ready, willing and able to do the dirty work of corporations for them and screw the people if they get hurt. She ain't no Dem. She was at one time, but not anymore.

You made up that word! It's ok though. Sometimes we need to coin a new word to get across the point! Congrats on the original verbiage.
The Professor

I, for one, want to WIN in '08! We don't need a vanity candidacy. We need a real candidate that hasn't been hand-picked by a bunch of wrong-wing Repiglicans and DLC quislings. The Repigs *want* Hillary. You do know that, don't you? They're yearning for her like a boy with his first Penthouse, just like they yearned for Kerry and were terrified of Dean.

Gimme Feingold. Gimme Warner. Gimme Schweitzer. Hell, gimme Clark. But oh-dear-whatever, save us from Hillary. I can't stand two solid years of weird-ass freaks shooting watermelons in their backyard to prove she killed Vince Foster.

Except freeper trolls trying to cause problems.

Heck I'm all tuckered out after bashing Bushies but honest criticism is valid. That flag amendment thingy was a bad move IMHO.

her arguments hold no water at all and her cohorts' responses seem quite contrived;)

I'm not sure she will really run or she could make it all the way.

The repubs and other Dems are the ones pushing her, not Hillary herself.

Since Hillary leads every friggin poll of dem voters
by a wide margin. Just watch 7 senators kissing her ass
as VP wannabe's after the primaries begin.

They have no idea what she has or has not done. THAT is the ONLY reason why they tick off her name. They don't know about the others, or have not even heard of other elegible Dems. Name recognition does not a good candidate make.

.

in 2002. and thats why he got nominated :eyes:

oh wait...

i agree.

if you don't like the dems, go start greenunderground.com or anythingbutthestatusquo.com

but leave my Dems alone.

I won't vote for Hillary in the primaries, or Clark probably either, but when November 08 rolls around whoever the Dems got is who I'll vote for (proabably after working my @ss off all summer and fall for them)

disagreeement is one thing and is the lifeblood of a democracy, but the vicious attacks are really over the top all to often

JMHO

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surely we have another person as competent as hillary. she is a fine senator and can kick ass there. or another dem is president, give her a cabinet. i like her just fine and the times she does side with dems i say yea

they were honorable people who were taking the country in the right/ I mean correct direction.

I miss the old Hillary. The one that had principles, and stood for something.

Not this Hillary:

Get a grip.

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Since when do we JUSTIFY working out of fear based motivation?

Enough already. IF I wanted more fear, I'd turn on the news. I don't need to find it in my politicians.

or from them. "It" being grief. Period.

response to the backlash from liberals. The backlash is from HER voting patterns and public statements.

And that is something that you have an obvious blind spot to. You think Hillary can do no wrong because she is a democrat and the backlash she is receiving is just jealousy, ignorance to the RW spin machine, media, <insert next excuse> blah blahblahblah. But it's much harder to acceptj if the reason is actually from the woman herself. So that reason is conveniently and repeatedly ignored.

Many liberals like myself are not hating Hillary just to hate her. Her own actions are the reason for the backlash. There is no need for republicans to do their usual spin cycle on this. Hillary does it FOR them.

I used to be a HUGE Hillary fan when the RW spin machine was in full force. Sent her money and support. But when she dumps her democratic principles, she deserves all the backlash she gets.

It's very simple. I don't owe her a damn thing. She OWES it to me, her base to represent us-- not go off triangulating bullshit so that she can speak out of both sides of her mouth at "my" expense.

and appeases the bad guys, that is ok?

She doesn't need to move right in New York. A REAL Democrat would win there.

Get a grip.

And no, I won't shut up because it suits you. And yes, I think that I will continue to hang around.

Or, if you prefer, Part time Dem politicians.

with full time pay at that! :eyes:

for example:

-support the war
-support a stupid anti-flag-burning amendment
-make a huge issue out of sex in a video game rated mature
-missed the vote for the bankruptcy bill

Sorry, but I don't like her and will be supporting someone else for the primaries. If she wins, I'll hold my nose and vote for her, but I won't like it.

I dunno, just a thought.

We are drowning in posturing and dying of thirst for an honest fighter.

Her "conservative" stances don't sit well with me.

If she cannot stand up at this point and say clearly that invading Iraq was a murderous act of agression based on the lies of bushco - if she can't even come close to saying that, at this point, I'm not really interested in hearing what she has to say. She and Lieberman can go play jacks for all I care.

We need an clear-spoken leader willing to state the truth.

When she does that, we can talk.

But that's democracy for ya.

Whatcha gonna do.

Sucks to be us, I guess.

So I defend Kerry, and Dean, and Gore, and Clark, and whoever, when they get bashed.

But I'm not a fan of Hillary either. It should be okay to say that, as long as one is civil and can back up why in a logical, coherent, civil manner. That's not bashing, that's criticism.

But I do get sick of the bashing of many of our Dems.

that they bash her any time her name is written in a thread here.

Criticizing her is perfectly fine. But the downright "hatred" I read on here is disturbing.

By hatred, I mean the "F*** her!" comments and the name calling I read from time to time.

Criticize her, but stop being so scared of her being the nominee. It's not going to happen anyway, so why worry about it?

see where that kind of reaction is justified. If there were other threads to balance the negativity it might not be so bad, but after seeing this stuff for so long, I've had it up to here and had to say something about it.

always be buckets of venom for any turncoat democrats and you can't quite blame people for being deeply hurt and angry when they are betrayed. Look up Joementum and Zell Miller. The comments are equally scathing.

and now we don't like her? Do we really need another guy?

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It's not her job making you safer, it's Bush's and he's not fucking doing that. Turn your anger where it belongs--he's the fucking bitch.

If you do it, fess up! If you didn't do it, don't take the blame. Hillary did it. She sucks. EOS

He's a bitch! Or, more likely, a punk!

All of them are whores!

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and will again. Am I happy with everything she has done? Absolutely NOT. And I have written to her TELLING her just that. Yes, she answers me. Give her credit for that one. I also get several emails a month from her on different issues.

All things considered, I will vote for her for Senator again, AND President if she runs, over ANY REPUBLICAN they run against her for either office. I have lived over half a century and I have never seen the likes of this current Republican Party. I would leave this country before I would vote for any of that lot.

I am not a Democrat. I am a life long Independent. It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for any of these Republicans, INCLUDING RUDY. Some of us remember what the man was like BEFORE he became St. Rudy of 9/11.

Enough?

:hi:

Oh get ye behind me SATAN!!!!!

:silly:

Exactly what did he do on 9/11 that made people so impressed. Folks, 3000 people died, 2500+ in New York. So, Rudy did what to make his city safe on 9/11. The people were already dead by the time he got in gear.

Now, i do think he did a masterful job of crisis management, AFTER THE FACT! But, geez, people thinking he's presidential just because he managed a situation (which was his job, after all), after 2500 people had been killed.

Doesn't seem inspirational, to me.
The Professor

surely you cannot begrudge those of us that find that fact a bit problematic.

I am all for DUers criticizing her if they want, but calling her a "bitch" or a "whore" isn't productive at all. If I am not crazy about a dem, I try to keep it constructive and devoid of expletives. I try to avoid name calling our dems and other DUers. And FWIW, I think Hillary is completely unelectable, and is my last choice for 08. She already has 40% of America commited to voting against her, and it is not very probable she will ever overcome that.

I haven't criticized her before, but I reserve my right, and support the rights of others, most probably loyal Democrats, to write negative Hillary threads to their heart's content.

Who was it that said... I don't agree with what you say but I support your right to say it.

If some positive Hillary moments had been sited in this thread, I may have given this whole argument credence. But the pro-Hill arguments are for the most part shallow and, frankly, a bit creepy.

If you want a site where everyone believes the same way you do, try FreeRepublic or something similar. Not everyone here agrees with my views, that's for damn sure. And they are free to disagree.

I tried to pull those words out of my head but they were stuck in frustration! Thanks for saying it for me, and for all of us "True" Dems. Anyone who thinks everyone should think the same way really does belong on FreeRepublic because that is Freeper mentality if I ever saw it!

I doubt that. You don't know what we believe, but nice ad hominem attack. I haven't call Hillary names. All I've done is explained why I don't support her for president. If you look over in the "say something nice about Hillary" thread, I did say something nice. So, don't presume to know my views on every issue based on the fact I don't support Hillary for president.

A lot of dems do. That is what's great about DU. They allow us to criticize our own party. I used to hate it when big dog Clinton was bashed but I just ignore them. Although some of the bashers were/are trolls.

:eyes:

:hi:

you making a logical platform for why people should support Hillary, rather than essentially calling people names who may not support her. Discourse doesn't start by telling people to take their negativity somewhere else in a terribly negative rant.

:shrug:

Yep. For a terribly negative group of bashers.

So what if my rant is negative, it can't be more negative than the threads that people glom onto to bash, and bash and bash...

I am simply tired of the bashing.

Simply tired.

I am not here to defend, I am here to rant about the negativity.

You know, my negativity seems to bother you as much as those negative threads. If it does, I'm happy because maybe, just maybe, you will feel what I feel when I see those threads.

Gandhi said that.

For the record, your negativity doesn't bother me, I am not that sensitive. I just found it a little hypocritical.

Peace.

Until then I'll hope for her resignation from the repug political ideals she pushes.

ya gotta there first.

in the 16 months I've been here.

Not one single word.

I have said words of appreciation for the likes of Congressman John Conyers, Senator Barbara Boxer, Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Congresswoman Louise Slaughter and others.

But I have never posted a word about Hillary Clinton.

In any event, if you think that the very first female President will be the off-putting wife of Bill Clinton, I have some land in Florida....
Monica/Whitewater/PaulaJ/Kathleen Willey/U.S.S.Cole/Hillary's "health care plan"/Vince Foster/gay...Doesn't matter what's true or what's fair, THESE are what will fill the papers ad nauseam.

all those scandals you mentioned for years, and I don't want to continue to hear it--especially here.

Like I said anything in agreement with the "scandals"? Like I said anything NOT predictably true?
What you may "want to hear" is quite beside the point.

and the fact that they preceded, the current bash craze here--kind of drawing a time line I guess. But anyhewww...that's neither here nor there as you seem ready to fight and that was not my point.

respect from a LOT of member's of her own party.

Hillary is a smart woman but not necessarily representative of her party at times and I'm afraid her past is too wishy washy for some of us to stomach. Blanket support of ANYONE just because they have a (D) before the state they represent is just foolish as far as I'm concerned. She may have a place in federal government but she doesn't fit the bill for President of the United States of America. If NY loves her, let them keep her!

On Edit: I swear people that keep posting about Hillary bashing are really pollsters trying to gage which way the wind is blowing within her party!

bashing and criticizing.

Your post was a lost cause as soon as you wrote it. The bashing will continue unfortunately.

Sure........:-(

just so sick and tired and hurt because not everyone loves Hillary. :eyes:

but never again! Not till she forgets her college roots (young republicans) and starts acting like a real democrat!

that truly "bash" Hillary but most just don't like the way she's been voting and the things she chooses to stand up for. I personally don't like her and am hoping for a candidate that actually stands for progressive principles and values.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:rofl:

:P

WELL! I gave you the best 30 mins of my life and THIS is what I get???? See if I bend over backwards for you again!!!

And what about our baby????

:silly:

:yoiks:

you are my baby's daddy though. :loveya:

I'd probably get this suckah locked so I ain't gonna say no mo!

:loveya:

my post got deLeted.

:eyes:

but big :loveya: for you babe.

:popcorn:

:popcorn:

all, he brings so much to the table for the Democrats!

Oh, and Hilary has the video game witchhunt going for her also, forgot to add that to her list of accomplishments. :eyes:

I agree with the posters that say that you would have done better to list why Hilary would be a good presidential candidate or is a good leader for the Democrats. We're still waiting.

The majority of things she does to "position" herself and get news, are things that are viewed negatively here at DU by most, and/or pander to the RIGHT, which is not only offensive to most DUers like me, but it also seems strategically STUPID as she will NEVER get the votes of people who vote based on issues like flag burning.

The Republican smear and noise machine has invested 15 YEARS into getting half of America to have irrational HATRED for Hilary, so from a strategic standpoint she'd be a poor candidate for the Democrats as well, I think... it's like pitching into the Republican "wheelhouse". That alone is not reason enough not to support her, but she seems to constantly be working to give liberal Democrats reason after reason to dislike and distrust her.

is the pure negativity against her, as a dem, not even as a presidential hopeful, is revolting.

her pandering on videogames, her support of the flagburning amendment.

Are you saying that DUers should not express their unhappiness with positions they totally disagree with, because someone is a Democrat? Should the same courtesy be extended to Joe Lieberman? Seriously...

What I am saying is the level of dissatisfaction for Hillary is over the top here--of all places. Witness this thread's length--Hillary has become a magnet for negativity. Of course the republicons have been painting her as negative for years in fear of her candidacy. Rush Limbo and co. have drug her through the mud, now I see it here. I am simply tired of it. It cannot be ignored. I have tried that. And tonight I decided to say something about it.

Now that she has decided to abandom democratic principles and pander to the right, she is more of a threat to the left.

If you want to tow the party line and never be critical of a democrat, go right ahead.

But to expect everyone to bite their tongue because you have political sensitivities, smacks too much of a cult mentality.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Cult of Personality

Look into my eyes, what do you see?
Cult of Personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality

may I add(nothing to do with Hillary):

Neon lights a Nobel prize
A leader speaks
that leader dies

Then we have the somewhat shock value lyrics of the song: (agian nothing to do with Hillary)

like Joseph Stalin and Gandi(the yen and the yang)


I believe it's time to use my few remaining downloads at one of the music downloading services.

Whenever I read threads that ascribe to Hilary some mysterious messianic power to restore the good times had by the country under her husbands' administration.

Cult of personality is a term for what is perceived to be excessive adulation of a single living leader, especially a head of state.

cannot be complete without a book. The book will be ascribed with a certain messianic power and will be hailed as a blueprint for the resurrection of the good times. Thus sayeth Hillary(text)problem solved.

The rest of the album is just as good. You won't be sorry.

AC2004. Vivid is a great album. It just got lost somewhere between a few moves and having a few people party at my pad that weren't really that trustworthy to begin with.

their leader.

:shrug:

<looking quickly around>

Your post leaves me with a strong urge to pick up the branches I just trimmed from my holiday tree and smack her around with them. Just because you told me not to. I won't, though; I'll save them for when they are really needed.

I'm not happy with some of Hillary's decisions. I have no interest in seeing her as the '08 nominee. I don't think it would be productive for the party. I have always respected her intelligence. I'm not going to vote for her. That's what I have to say about Hillary in a nutshell, and I don't see it as negative. I'm a DUer, AND I AM A DEMOCRAT, and I don't drink koolaid. I get to say what I think, last time I checked.

You know what? I don't give a flying fuck what you are "sick of." I don't really care how you choose to spin "negative." I don't care if you love her or hate her. If you're "tired of it," quit reading it. Simple.

You don't get to tell me, or any DUer, to go somewhere else. Thankfully, your personal criteria doesn't rule the board.

<snip>

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

Let's see...as a progressive, and a Democrat, I fit just fine. I support Democratic candidates for office when they've earned my support. I don't support republican candidates for office.

<snip>

Content: Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements. The moderators and administrators work very hard to enforce some minimal standards regarding what content is appropriate. But please remember that this is a large and diverse community that includes a broad range of opinion. People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions (including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum.

smack arounds and all--yet you say you don't drink kool aid.

That's the thing about kook aid drinkers, they don't even know that they've taken the poison--until it's too late.

as already mentioned, they were laying right in front of me, just having been trimmed to fit the tree into the stand. I was going to do something decorative with them. Other uses didn't occur to me until I "heard" your temper tantrum.

That's the thing about people who throw temper tantrums; they always have to have a target for the tantrum, and they don't take responsibility well. It's always about not getting their way. IMO, they are the koolaid drinkers.

Poison, koolaid, whatever. There isn't any here. Look to your own cup.

talking. In fact, the poster was being honest in describing how your post made her feel as an individual.

I have four boys.

I don't want them drafted.


She wants to increase troop strength in Iraq.

She seems to be signed on to the PNAC agenda.

I think she is naive about Iraq, from reading her statements.

I'll bash her all I please.

does not mean we are Hillary bashing. I would prefer to vote for someone who did not vote for IWR or the Patriot Act. I would prefer a real progressive Democrat.

Unfortunately, Hillary differs with many of my issues. If that is bashing her, so be it. She is not my 1st, 2nd, or 3rd choice, maybe even lower.

As a registered Green, I have been listening to people like you whine about anyone who disagrees with you since the early daysof DU. All I can say is that dissent is what seperates us from Republicans. I suggest that if you can't handle dissent. the Republican party is right up your alley.

:eyes:

newcommer who thinks they rule the world.

We have been having this fight since 2001. Care to guess who won?

A Hillary nomination would be an absolute travesty for the Democratic party. Like it or not, she tops the list of the most reviled Democrats, and she is incredibly vulnerable to Republican attacks.

I don't trust her, I don't respect the way she conducts herself in the name of our party, and I will continue to say so to anyone who will listen.

Why?

Because I love Democratic values, and I don't believe that she is a good ambassador for those values. On most issues she does not speak for what I believe the party should be, and in fact she is often counter to what I believe it should be.

For me it's a race between her and JoeMentum for which I'd like to see leave the party faster.

That's my opinion, and I refuse to keep quiet about it when the future of our nation is at stake.

I will not leave, and I will not quietly ignore her. Too much is at stake.

Please keep standing up for what you believe in, not the status quo!

Thank you for being brave enough to say what I have wanted to say for a couple months now.

Let's just keep bashing that Bush bastard, ok?

Countless things she's said and done to look "Repuke-lite" to further her delusion that it will help her Presidential ambitions.

She's ripped her own credibility to shreds. No one on DU could do that for her as well as she's done it herself.

People like Hillary and Loserman are threats to the Democratic Party.

I do not foresee that time coming any time soon.

It looks like this: I suggest you use it, rather than tell others to leave.

And unless you get one of these next to your name:
Or, Cthulhu forbid, one of these next to your name: and then get a chance to re-write the rules of the board...
You're going to have to accept the fact that there are a number of people on this board who don't like Senator Clinton.
Just like there's a number of people on this board who don't like Dean.
Just like there's a number of people on this board who don't like Kerry.
Or Kucinich.
Or Lieberman.
Or...are you not getting my point?

Like I said, it looks like this:
Forgot to mention...don't forget this one:
I use that one a bit.

If you want to ban negative opinions about her, set up your own forum.

go to a Hillary lovers forum and post there to yoour hearts content.

You do realize by now that she is pro-war and anti-free speech (flag burning). Why should we support her?

And it's not just DU'ers who have those feelings. Just read the comments on any liberal blog when the discussion is about Hillary and you'll see the majority can't stand her.

You've yet to answer...what has she done for the Democratic party?

That D after her name?

If bush was a dem and doing what he is doing would it be ok to vent here about he was not representing the values the party hold?

Being a democrat used to mean more that having the title of one. Saying you are a democrat does not make you one more than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger.

I am not a supporter of Hillary for the Dem nomination. But, I think it is entirely possible that could happen.

This is a selection of a wide range of Interest Group Ratings -- Here I compare Hillary's ratings with Sen. Allen and Sen. McCain since one those two are likely possiblilities to become the GOP nominee in 2008

For the record -

I am NOT a supporter of Hillary for the nomination and I am certainly no friend of the DLC

This is courtesy of project vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/index.htm

Interest Group Ratings.
_____________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.
_________________________________


2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Peace Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Peace Action 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Peace Action 13 percent in 2004.
______________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.
____________________________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.
__________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 78 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 15 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 17 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.
_________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 110 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 85 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National School Boards Association 33 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.
______________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004..

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 13 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 7 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 25 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Family Research Council 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004.
____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.
____________________________


Vermont Congressman Bernie Sanders for

I don't agree with what she stands for, and I'm not gong to start, just because a majority of Dem voters choose her over other GREAT Dems that they have never even heard of.

and the reason for two is that some people don't want to read entire threads. hope this helps.

instead she does things like, support the war and promote flag burning amendments. She doesn't bother me that much but she is certainly not my first choice.

By the way, she gets riped on by Air America all the time. Even Ed Schultz is starting to get pissed off at her.

:eyes:

...since Eddie is practically Al From's ventriloquist's dummy.

My point was, even the moderate left wing talk show personalities are starting to wonder what in the hell she stands for.

Randi and Mike Malloy have ripped on her for months now.

Look, I was for Hillary early on but she keeps disappointing me. If you look back at my posts on DU right after the election I had a lot of positive things to say about her. If she gets the nomination I will work for her but she is about my 10th choice right now.

Here is a typical stupid move by Hillary. For instance her coming out for banning flag burning was a really stupid move. She pissed off the far left and those on the right will NEVER believe she did that for anything but political reasons which will cause them to have even less respect for her. She basically disappointed both sides. Not a smart move! She is going to have to do much better than that if she wants to win.

I don't like some of the things that I've been hearing about her voting, but that doesn't mean I totally reject her.

There are things that neither you nor I know about politics that could cause a lot of the strange behavior that we see in the dems and Hillary. Being part of a minority party under a corrupt regime that owns the media has its own challenges for Hillary and all dems.

If there is one thing that Hillary is known for, it's her brains. So you have to wonder why would such a smart woman vote for some of the more unpopular items she's voted for. Perhaps she received funding for her state. Perhaps there were parts of the bills that, if she failed to vote, would have shown up as negatives on her voting record. Smart people don't make foolish decisions--normally. Maybe she's doing the best she can.

She will likely go into the Democratic primary's with a big lead just because she is Hillary. She could end up just like Dean did though. Two days before Iowa that huge lead could dissipate if Democrats fear she cant win a national election.

I agree that she is extremely smart and the fact that she is a moderate would help her in a National election. Once the debates start up and if she does well the country would probably be willing to vote for her and it would end up being a close election between her and someone like McCain.

I will tell you this! I have two sisters who don't pay much attention to politics and they are already 100% behind Hillary. I find that interesting.

In the end even the skeptical people will give her a chance when it comes to actually casting their vote. She could win, I have no doubt.

She has been extremely impressive on Meet The Press in the past. She carries herself with grace and poise! I think she would be a very good president.

My first choice is Wes Clark though. I put Hillary about five slots down but I could change my mind during the debates. A Hillary/Clark ticket would be cool. I would love to have a Woman president and I am guy. We need more women in politics. Their compassion, diplomacy, smarts and empathy are just what the world needs. I have had enough testosterone for a lifetime!

If we do get a Woman, I hope she doesn't feel like she has to be strong on defense to show her strength. Diplomacy takes more leadership in my opinion.

I hate those kind of statements. It is the same kind of condescending bullshit that I heard people say about the intelligence that drove us to war... "There are things you and I don't know about the intelligence Bush has".

All I know is that Hillary is pandering to folks that will NEVER support her. Instead she has betrayed the folks that stood by her when the right was hurling the nastiest insults you couldn't repeat here. And no, stop equating the sense of disappointment we have with the insults the right has tossed at her.

So no, I am absolutely disgusted by her recent moves against flag burning, whining about video game pixelated boobies, and her enthusiastic support for more troops in Iraq.

Spare me. Over two thousand troops are dead. Likely over a hundred thousand Iraqis. The fake president is turning this country into a police state and this woman is worried about a piece of cloth? You do know that Bill Clinton did NOT support the flag burning amendment.

She'd be lucky to get my vote in the general election at this point and it's her own fucking fault...But there isn't a chance in hell I would vote for her in the primaries, or donate or spend any time on her campaign.

"If you don't like Hillary..... then take your negativity somewhere else"

NOPE. Nuh-uh.

We get to talk about issues and politicians here. If you can't stand it, maybe YOU need to find another place to post. We toss around ideas, debate, learn and offer opinions here.

You cannot tell us to shut up about opinions on a prominent democratic politician.

I have not posted about Hillary, but I'll be DAMNED if I will have you tell me to shut up. WTF??!!!

Well, since you make such a big deal about it, though I have never offered a post on my views of her, here ya go: NO THANKS on any day that the sun rises, unless she's the last Dem on earth*.

*except the other sell-outs and obvious republican Zell, Joe, etc.

I don't post against Hillary either (that is until this thread)...but I can quietly seethe. :D

I am not a supporter of Hillary for the Dem nomination. But, I think it is entirely possible that could happen.

This is a selection of a wide range of Interest Group Ratings -- Here I compare Hillary's ratings with Sen. Allen and Sen. McCain since one those two are likely possiblilities to become the GOP nominee in 2008

For the record -

I am NOT a supporter of Hillary for the nomination and I am certainly no friend of the DLC

This is courtesy of project vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/index.htm

Interest Group Ratings.
_____________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.
_________________________________


2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Peace Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Peace Action 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Peace Action 13 percent in 2004.
______________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.
____________________________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.
__________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 78 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 15 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 17 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.
_________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 110 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 85 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National School Boards Association 33 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.
______________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004..

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 13 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 7 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 25 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Family Research Council 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004.
____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.
____________________________

NOT. :silly:

I have some strong disagreements with Hillary just as a do with many Democratic politicians -- but people should at least base their bashing a bit more within reality

a comparison of Hillary's record with that of the other equally qualified DEMOCRATS to be persuaded by your argument.

It's a given that she'd be better than the Repuglican candidates.

Anything a Democrat says we just stamp approved? I think not.

That's what is disappointing. Power corrupts, I suppose.

her voting record lately? Have you seen that she's turning into just another Republican-lite and has been very disappointing these past few years? Just because someone calls herself a Democrat doesn't necessarily mean she is one in reality. Look at that idiot repub-lite Lieberman, who should just switch parties and make it official already. Hillary supports the war, when she should damn well know better.

And her failure to stand up against that damned medieval inhuman screw-the-poor-and-middle-class-but-make-sure-the-rich-are-taken-care-of-through-loopholes bankruptcy law "reform" pretty much did it for me and should do it for anyone else who calls themself a Democrat. Yes, I know Bill was having surgery at the time and she had to abstain from the actual vote. But the debates had been going on for weeks before that and she did NOTHING to help pass desperately-needed exemptions, such as for the elderly who'd worked hard all their lives and maintained good credit but found themselves in debt due to illness and medical bills, or families with overwhelming medical bills due to major illnesses such as cancer (the leading cause of bankruptcy filings among middle-class families), etc., etc.

And she's done little for people, but had no trouble shilling for the corporatocracy that's ruining this country. So screw her. She ain't no Democrat anymore. And I admit that's a tremendous, overwhelming disappointment to me as she was previously one of my favorites. But she's sold out, and deserves no respect because of that. I don't care if she does call herself a Democrat. Just because you walk into McDonald's and call yourself a hamburger doesn't exactly mean you're a hamburger.

And if you have a problem with that, that's just too goddamn bad. We have the right to feel that way, just as you have the right to express your own feelings. If you don't like it, don't click on the fucking threads, no one's forcing you to do it. And use the ignore feature, since you claim you know how to use it.

understand then.

As for ignore and "don't click" I DON'T click--never said I did. But here's a tip for you: if you don't like MY thread about bashing, don't click. :hi:

I am not a supporter of Hillary for the Dem nomination. But, I think it is entirely possible that could happen.

This is a selection of a wide range of Interest Group Ratings -- Here I compare Hillary's ratings with Sen. Allen and Sen. McCain since one those two are likely possiblilities to become the GOP nominee in 2008

For the record -

I am NOT a supporter of Hillary for the nomination and I am certainly no friend of the DLC

This is courtesy of project vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/index.htm

Interest Group Ratings.
_____________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.
_________________________________


2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Peace Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Peace Action 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Peace Action 13 percent in 2004.
______________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.
____________________________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.
__________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 78 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 15 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 17 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.
_________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 110 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 85 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National School Boards Association 33 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.
______________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004..

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 13 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 7 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.
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2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 25 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.
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2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Family Research Council 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004.
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2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
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2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.
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Vermont Congressman Bernie Sanders for